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A mobile Baneblade isolated behind enemy lines will punch a hole through the enemy. An immobilized Baneblade will lay waste around them while the Imperial Guard sacrifice as many infantry as it takes to get the recovery vehicle to the Baneblade. Now, an immobilized Baneblade that is also out of sandwiches and coffee is in real trouble and them you send in Scions in Valkries.

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
A mobile Baneblade isolated behind enemy lines will punch a hole through the enemy. An immobilized Baneblade will lay waste around them while the Imperial Guard sacrifice as many infantry as it takes to get the recovery vehicle to the Baneblade. Now, an immobilized Baneblade that is also out of sandwiches and coffee is in real trouble and them you send in Scions in Valkries.

Oh, I like you.
You have it all in proper perspective.

Pic very relevant.

Something which exists in real life and ought to exist in 40K is military engineering teams specialising in field repair. Some of these units are even parachute trained in order to be deployed to locations too hot for helicopter insertion.

http://www.army.mod.uk/reme/41585.aspx

Those units do exist, though they're not inserted by aircraft.

But Atlases and Trojans are absolutely crewed by engineering teams that specialize in recovering and aiding the combat vehicles.

What do you mean 'stranded'?

This is a Baneblade, a divine machine that is both vehicle and fortress. The Emperor, in his infinite wisdom, has deigned to reveal to his humble servants that this land shal be the new fulcrum and our forces the lever that shal pry the enemy from their foothold. All local forces are prompted to move to the new front line immediately.

There are "ye olde" Baneblades with superior relic tech, but also "counterfeit" massproduction Baneblades that do not have the same level of technology (according to IA).

An immobilized Baneblade will lay waste around them while the Imperial Guard sacrifice as many infantry as it takes to get the recovery vehicle to the Baneblade.

lay waste until his ammunition runs out... which, according to my planning would be maincannon 28 shots, according to IA 1 only 22. Not too impressive. It would also need more than a recovery vehicle... likely 4-6 Atlas tanks (unless the track is completely busted and blocked, then 8 is likely).

Tank nuts be looking here

 Keep wrote:
There are "ye olde" Baneblades with superior relic tech, but also "counterfeit" massproduction Baneblades that do not have the same level of technology (according to IA).

An immobilized Baneblade will lay waste around them while the Imperial Guard sacrifice as many infantry as it takes to get the recovery vehicle to the Baneblade.

lay waste until his ammunition runs out... which, according to my planning would be maincannon 28 shots, according to IA 1 only 22. Not too impressive. It would also need more than a recovery vehicle... likely 4-6 Atlas tanks (unless the track is completely busted and blocked, then 8 is likely).

Tank nuts be looking here

Still got the demolishe . Bolter sponsors. Laser cannons and the close in defense storm bolter.

 Keep wrote:
There are "ye olde" Baneblades with superior relic tech, but also "counterfeit" massproduction Baneblades that do not have the same level of technology (according to IA).

An immobilized Baneblade will lay waste around them while the Imperial Guard sacrifice as many infantry as it takes to get the recovery vehicle to the Baneblade.

lay waste until his ammunition runs out... which, according to my planning would be maincannon 28 shots, according to IA 1 only 22. Not too impressive. It would also need more than a recovery vehicle... likely 4-6 Atlas tanks (unless the track is completely busted and blocked, then 8 is likely).

Tank nuts be looking here

Repairing track is what tankers do - a couple of servitors to help and we're away. For the ARV I expect a one to one pull, maybe two to one if I'm real bogged. Suspension or powerpack damage could be tricky depending on the extent- but we have lots of infantry to buy time for the Techpriets to do their thing. The crew not busy wasting the enemy will make sure that the vehicle is prepped. The crew commander will owe a case of beer to the ARV crew, but that's life.

There really ought to be a super heavy ARV - the atlas just isn't big enough.

An ARV is typically based on the largest chassis it's supposed to recover, lightened (by removing the turret) and with a more powerful engine (sometimes two of the standard engine!).

Woah there Guardsman, Baneblades dont get stuck, they simply lull the enemy into a false sense of security

jhe90 wrote:Still got the demolishe . Bolter sponsors. Laser cannons and the close in defense storm bolter.

When a baneblade is disabled behind enemy lines that demolisher cannon with 18 rounds - is bloody useless in a fixed casemate mount. If something was able to mobility kill the Baneblade, trying to rely on 2 lascannons and heavy bolters (which can not cover the rear in standard configuration) to keep enemies at bay for hours until relief force comes is propaganda-level optimistic.

TangoTwoBravo wrote:Repairing track is what tankers do - a couple of servitors to help and we're away. For the ARV I expect a one to one pull, maybe two to one if I'm real bogged.

We're talking about a 316 ton vehicle here that requires pulling. You're not just going to be able to manhandle the tracklinks. You need some serious powerlifter hardware or cranes if that thing folded itself into a bad shape from a broken link. And you're definitely not just pulling it away with a 60 ton vehicle that has 700HP at max.

You need to spend some time around a tank park on track day. With some servitors or a Tech Priest we are good to go with Baneblade track links. As for pulling a Baneblade, you just need a Baneblade ARV. You can even try direct towing.

I see you are interested in tank realism: try to envision the inside of a Leman Russ turret. Fit in their crew stations. Work in the recoil of the gun. Now stop trying to be realistic.

Like any other AFV, you send an ARV and engineering team to recover the Baneblade. Probably a Baneblade-class ARV.

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
You need to spend some time around a tank park on track day. With some servitors or a Tech Priest we are good to go with Baneblade track links. As for pulling a Baneblade, you just need a Baneblade ARV. You can even try direct towing.

"just needing a Baneblade ARV" is a considerable understatement, considering superheavies like Baneblades are so rare (supposedly). You're not going to have the luxury to have a superheavy ARV around the corner everytime a Baneblade breaks down or is mobility killed.

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
I see you are interested in tank realism: try to envision the inside of a Leman Russ turret. Fit in their crew stations. Work in the recoil of the gun. Now stop trying to be realistic.

Very convincing argument. Not. Maybe try with more logik.

 Keep wrote:

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
You need to spend some time around a tank park on track day. With some servitors or a Tech Priest we are good to go with Baneblade track links. As for pulling a Baneblade, you just need a Baneblade ARV. You can even try direct towing.

"just needing a Baneblade ARV" is a considerable understatement, considering superheavies like Baneblades are so rare (supposedly). You're not going to have the luxury to have a superheavy ARV around the corner everytime a Baneblade breaks down or is mobility killed.

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
I see you are interested in tank realism: try to envision the inside of a Leman Russ turret. Fit in their crew stations. Work in the recoil of the gun. Now stop trying to be realistic.

Very convincing argument. Not. Maybe try with more logik.

I think this is meant to be a fun thread.

Main battle tanks in the real world are valuable. In my tank squadrons we had a Leopard ARV, to make sure that a recovery vehicle was one or two tactical bounds (around the corner so to speak) away from a tank needing recovery. In our imaginary grim and dark future I am pretty sure that a Super Heavy regiment would have a Super Heavy recovery vehicle based on a Baneblade chassis. How would you change powerpacks or recover those precious tanks without it? Tanks break down, so you have appropriate recovery vehicles. If we accept warp travel I think that we can accept a Baneblade ARV...Life is cheap - tanks are valuable in 40K. You protect your investment.

If you are really worried about realism what is your thought on bridges? Or how do the commanders move the Baneblades around? What trains or tank transporters do they have? They must be Banebade sized. The Baneblade is a ridiculous vehicle, ridiculously awesome! I've been in the Armoured Corps for over twenty years. I've got my share of tanks and AFVs stuck.

Cheers

ps The crew commander of the Leman Russ would be killed by the breech recoiling. But that's OK, since its a grim and dark future! Doesn't stop me from loving them and playing with them. If I want to be serious I go to work.

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
I think this is meant to be a fun thread.

Main battle tanks in the real world are valuable. In my tank squadrons we had a Leopard ARV, to make sure that a recovery vehicle was one or two tactical bounds (around the corner so to speak) away from a tank needing recovery. In our imaginary grim and dark future I am pretty sure that a Super Heavy regiment would have a Super Heavy recovery vehicle based on a Baneblade chassis. How would you change powerpacks or recover those precious tanks without it? Tanks break down, so you have appropriate recovery vehicles. If we accept warp travel I think that we can accept a Baneblade ARV...Life is cheap - tanks are valuable in 40K. You protect your investment.

If you are really worried about realism what is your thought on bridges? Or how do the commanders move the Baneblades around? What trains or tank transporters do they have? They must be Banebade sized. The Baneblade is a ridiculous vehicle, ridiculously awesome! I've been in the Armoured Corps for over twenty years. I've got my share of tanks and AFVs stuck.

Cheers

ps The crew commander of the Leman Russ would be killed by the breech recoiling. But that's OK, since its a grim and dark future! Doesn't stop me from loving them and playing with them. If I want to be serious I go to work.

Thank you. Of *course* there are ARVs.

Also, the Leman Russ isn't really a Heavy Tank. It's actually more of a Light Tank, or Tankette, based on its running gear and size compared to infantrymen. I assume the Russ uses a fixed mount cannon, like something you'd have seen 200 years ago, where all of the recoil goes directly into the mount and turret ring. It's terrible design.

BTW, what's the most stuck you've ever gotten something?

TangoTwoBravo wrote:

If you are really worried about realism what is your thought on bridges? Or how do the commanders move the Baneblades around? What trains or tank transporters do they have?

Exactly. This is why an SHV ARV is even more important - SHVs have to drive when they want to re-deploy otherwise they must wait on imperial navy assets. Chimera and Russ chassis have a whole range of options for moving between combat zones that SHVs do not.

The other thing we need that never appears in 40K is a bridging vehicle/system.

Baneblade companies almost certainly have a Baneblade ARV. We just don't see any because we don't hear about the times a baneblade got stuck and they sent the ARV out to get it unstuck.

Otherwise, another Baneblade will probably be good enough much of the time too.

Or you have a Lemon Russ with an oversized Power Lifter arm that can lift a super heavy. Anti-grav exists in this setting.

TangoTwoBravo wrote:I think this is meant to be a fun thread. Main battle tanks in the real world are valuable. In my tank squadrons we had a Leopard ARV, to make sure that a recovery vehicle was one or two tactical bounds (around the corner so to speak) away from a tank needing recovery.[...]

It's background and lore discussion. You stated, in essence, that i'd be "easy peasy" to recover a Baneblade. I gave counter arguments why its not. And now your response is that "oh dont take it serious"?
Imperial Guard isn't the same as modern day armies. It's mostly in line with WW1 and WW2. Neither the tactics, nor the hardware are on the same level as modern armies (bar some exceptions, including energy weapons).
Yes Baneblade ARV exist most certainly. There is a custom crane on SH chassis in a game table at warhammer world. That doesn't mean that they are readily available however. Super Heavy regiments exist, but are in most cases not deployed as one.

TangoTwoBravo wrote:If you are really worried about realism what is your thought on bridges? Or how do the commanders move the Baneblades around? What trains or tank transporters do they have? They must be Banebade sized. The Baneblade is a ridiculous vehicle, ridiculously awesome!

It's size and power is also it's weakness. This is why it's not feasible or practical to use it everywhere... This is why they are special. There isn't always a solution for this weakness, or sometimes it will simply require gargantuan investment of ressources (logistics and manpower). If a planet has no rail system whatsoever and is predominantly muddy - you can't go by train or rely on wheeled tank transporter, as they require adequate road systems. If the tank transporter is another, larger, tank, then what's the point of a tank transporter?
Bridging tanks are listed in IA 1 tank regiment example organisational chart - but not for superheavies that are attached to them. So, getting those Baneblades on the other side of a ditch or river means them crossing without bridge, or if impossible for whatever reason, wait until engineer units managed to build a bridge that supports upwards of 350 tons. "Simple" as that.

JohnHwangDD wrote: Also, the Leman Russ isn't really a Heavy Tank. It's actually more of a Light Tank, or Tankette, based on its running gear and size compared to infantrymen. I assume the Russ uses a fixed mount cannon, like something you'd have seen 200 years ago, where all of the recoil goes directly into the mount and turret ring. It's terrible design.

Light Tank? What? Heavy Tanks rely on armor, not on speed. Light Tanks do pretty much the opposite and are generally only used for ambush, recon and never in the main battle line. Leman Russes are heavy tanks, end of story. Design of running gear has nothing to do with that classification. Unless you would, for example, want to classify the WW1 MarkIV/V tanks, or the churchill as light tanks too?

Grey Templar wrote:Baneblade companies almost certainly have a Baneblade ARV. [...] Or you have a Lemon Russ with an oversized Power Lifter arm that can lift a super heavy. Anti-grav exists in this setting.

In IA1 there is a force organisation chart. 1 SH Company as attachement to a Tank regiment. There are 4 SH tanks in it. No mention of SH ARV. Anti grav tech exists. But it's a tech relic. If any 60ton tank ARV could lift a 315 ton SH then why would the IG not use anti grav tanks?
The point is - any easy solution (SH ARV, antigrav magic devices) could exist. But it's unlikely that it will be available in the most circumstances when it's needed, because these conveniet solutions are even rarer than the super heavy tanks themself. Therefore most units have to make do with what they got, which will take a lot of efford, manpower and press-fit machinery to solve any problem involving SH tank operations.

In a universe where the Baneblade and Land Raider also exist, the Russ is a light tank.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
I think this is meant to be a fun thread.

Main battle tanks in the real world are valuable. In my tank squadrons we had a Leopard ARV, to make sure that a recovery vehicle was one or two tactical bounds (around the corner so to speak) away from a tank needing recovery. In our imaginary grim and dark future I am pretty sure that a Super Heavy regiment would have a Super Heavy recovery vehicle based on a Baneblade chassis. How would you change powerpacks or recover those precious tanks without it? Tanks break down, so you have appropriate recovery vehicles. If we accept warp travel I think that we can accept a Baneblade ARV...Life is cheap - tanks are valuable in 40K. You protect your investment.

If you are really worried about realism what is your thought on bridges? Or how do the commanders move the Baneblades around? What trains or tank transporters do they have? They must be Banebade sized. The Baneblade is a ridiculous vehicle, ridiculously awesome! I've been in the Armoured Corps for over twenty years. I've got my share of tanks and AFVs stuck.

Cheers

ps The crew commander of the Leman Russ would be killed by the breech recoiling. But that's OK, since its a grim and dark future! Doesn't stop me from loving them and playing with them. If I want to be serious I go to work.

Thank you. Of *course* there are ARVs.

Also, the Leman Russ isn't really a Heavy Tank. It's actually more of a Light Tank, or Tankette, based on its running gear and size compared to infantrymen. I assume the Russ uses a fixed mount cannon, like something you'd have seen 200 years ago, where all of the recoil goes directly into the mount and turret ring. It's terrible design.

BTW, what's the most stuck you've ever gotten something?

During my Troop Leader training I got my whole Troop stuck twice.

I threw both tracks on my Leopard during a delay battle. I was the last tank at the lane to count heads, and I threw both tracks in the sand.

My Troop Sergeant sunk his tank so bad it took me and my Warrant in tandem as anchors to keep his Panzer above water. It then took the ARV and the Badger (engineer variant) to pull him out. That was 160 tons of metal and some 4,000 HP fighting against nature.

I imagine that the Baneblade ARV has something like the MegaBolter for self defence. It doesn't need it though, because it has an Ogryn as the driver and the crew commander is a Techpriest Enginseer with a temper. He is also the Skip of the Regimental Curling Team. Ten Servitors deploy when it halts. You had better hope that you got the deck plates open and everything ready when he pulls up. And yes, you are the one going into the water/muck with the tow cables. It carries a spare Baneblade powerpack and the Squadron's maintenance ledgers lovingly maintained by a flotilla of Servo-Skull Data Scribes.

Cheers!



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Keep,

I have no idea what we are arguing about. Maybe we just have fun talking about ridiculously awesome tanks?

Cheers,

TangoTwoBravo

ps That was one of my callsigns in a tank squadron.

I wonder if the Guard would use some kind of flyer to both transport and retrieve Baneblades and other super heavies? A Devourer Dropship or a Tetrach can most likely land nearby, with suitable support, and carry the infrastructure and equipment to retrieve and possibly repair a damaged vehicle.

The fact it can escape atmosphere also suggests there isn't a mud puddle deep enough to bog it down.

And they're typically used to transport a Guard Company, so if they can be built cheaply enough to move around a few dozen Guardsmen then building one for a Baneblade likely isn't too big an issue. Not cheap, certainly...but 40k has never been sensible.

Who saves a baneblade?

Lootas.

TangoTwoBravo wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
BTW, what's the most stuck you've ever gotten something?

My Troop Sergeant sunk his tank so bad it took me and my Warrant in tandem as anchors to keep his Panzer above water. It then took the ARV and the Badger (engineer variant) to pull him out. That was 160 tons of metal and some 4,000 HP fighting against nature.

Oohh... Hopefully, someone had video to remind him later.

Another option - and one which would make a rather cool table bit of scenery --- the stranded Baneblade becomes a bunker. Then some trenches are added and it becomes a small FOB. Over time, more components are added and it eventually becomes a full on base.

It'd be awesome to see a sunken/stranded and rusted Baneblade as the basis for a fire-base or FOB.

TangoTwoBravo wrote:

If you are really worried about realism what is your thought on bridges? Or how do the commanders move the Baneblades around? What trains or tank transporters do they have? They must be Banebade sized. The Baneblade is a ridiculous vehicle, ridiculously awesome! I've been in the Armoured Corps for over twenty years. I've got my share of tanks and AFVs stuck.

The Imperium seems rather fond of extremely large and strong bridges and roads. They build with huge armored vehicles(and titans) in mind. If a bridge exists that a Baneblade can't cross, it's probably across a body of water the Baneblade can ford or a Titan can just step across.

There is a canon representation of a 40k train in the Space Marine computer game. It is more than wide enough for a baneblade to fit on.

 Grey Templar wrote:
The Imperium seems rather fond of extremely large and strong bridges and roads. They build with huge armored vehicles(and titans) in mind.

That's because these depictions always show forgeworlds or hives... never an "ordinary" outpost or mining world.

In a universe where the Baneblade and Land Raider also exist, the Russ is a light tank.

It's not about weight (because that's relative), it's about role. Leman Russ never will have the role of a light tank. Light tank would be something like a centaur or land crawler/siegfried.

ps That was one of my callsigns in a tank squadron.

Mine was Taube or Spatz.

TangoTwoBravo wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
I think this is meant to be a fun thread.

Main battle tanks in the real world are valuable. In my tank squadrons we had a Leopard ARV, to make sure that a recovery vehicle was one or two tactical bounds (around the corner so to speak) away from a tank needing recovery. In our imaginary grim and dark future I am pretty sure that a Super Heavy regiment would have a Super Heavy recovery vehicle based on a Baneblade chassis. How would you change powerpacks or recover those precious tanks without it? Tanks break down, so you have appropriate recovery vehicles. If we accept warp travel I think that we can accept a Baneblade ARV...Life is cheap - tanks are valuable in 40K. You protect your investment.

If you are really worried about realism what is your thought on bridges? Or how do the commanders move the Baneblades around? What trains or tank transporters do they have? They must be Banebade sized. The Baneblade is a ridiculous vehicle, ridiculously awesome! I've been in the Armoured Corps for over twenty years. I've got my share of tanks and AFVs stuck.

Cheers

ps The crew commander of the Leman Russ would be killed by the breech recoiling. But that's OK, since its a grim and dark future! Doesn't stop me from loving them and playing with them. If I want to be serious I go to work.

Thank you. Of *course* there are ARVs.

Also, the Leman Russ isn't really a Heavy Tank. It's actually more of a Light Tank, or Tankette, based on its running gear and size compared to infantrymen. I assume the Russ uses a fixed mount cannon, like something you'd have seen 200 years ago, where all of the recoil goes directly into the mount and turret ring. It's terrible design.

BTW, what's the most stuck you've ever gotten something?

During my Troop Leader training I got my whole Troop stuck twice.

I threw both tracks on my Leopard during a delay battle. I was the last tank at the lane to count heads, and I threw both tracks in the sand.

My Troop Sergeant sunk his tank so bad it took me and my Warrant in tandem as anchors to keep his Panzer above water. It then took the ARV and the Badger (engineer variant) to pull him out. That was 160 tons of metal and some 4,000 HP fighting against nature.

I imagine that the Baneblade ARV has something like the MegaBolter for self defence. It doesn't need it though, because it has an Ogryn as the driver and the crew commander is a Techpriest Enginseer with a temper. He is also the Skip of the Regimental Curling Team. Ten Servitors deploy when it halts. You had better hope that you got the deck plates open and everything ready when he pulls up. And yes, you are the one going into the water/muck with the tow cables. It carries a spare Baneblade powerpack and the Squadron's maintenance ledgers lovingly maintained by a flotilla of Servo-Skull Data Scribes.

Cheers!



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Keep,

I have no idea what we are arguing about. Maybe we just have fun talking about ridiculously awesome tanks?

Cheers,

TangoTwoBravo

ps That was one of my callsigns in a tank squadron.

True. A baneblade ARV is a handy way to haul out a larger tank, you'd need multiples of lighter models to haul one out.

Unless there's minotorium and other ad mech heavy haulerd, or earth movers such as heavy bulldozers they use on front line to drag one out.

The admech might have there own recovery machines to pull out trapped tanks. They are very valuable. They can recover a battle titan, why not a baneblade?

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
You need to spend some time around a tank park on track day. With some servitors or a Tech Priest we are good to go with Baneblade track links. As for pulling a Baneblade, you just need a Baneblade ARV. You can even try direct towing.

I see you are interested in tank realism: try to envision the inside of a Leman Russ turret. Fit in their crew stations. Work in the recoil of the gun. Now stop trying to be realistic.

Maybe the Imperium actually invented recoil-less guns somehow?