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Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
 Grey Templar wrote:
You're really stretching it there, and didn't even quote an actual dictionary.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/device

Definition of device
1 :something devised or contrived: such as
a (1) :plan, procedure, technique, a marketing device, mnemonic devices
(2) :a scheme to deceive :stratagem, trick
b :something fanciful, elaborate, or intricate in design
c :something (such as a figure of speech) in a literary work designed to achieve a particular artistic effect, irony and other literary devices, a plot device
d archaic :masque, spectacle
e :a conventional stage practice or means (such as a stage whisper) used to achieve a particular dramatic effect
f :a piece of equipment or a mechanism designed to serve a special purpose or perform a special function. smartphones and other electronic devices. a hidden recording device

The only real definition for the purpose is F. And it really does not allow for a living creature to be a device. It has to be an inanimate object.


Not to stray massively off topic, but where in definition f does it state said device cannot be biological?

Where does it state that it has to be inanimate?

Where does it even state that it needs to be unintelligent?

Nowhere. Those are simply assumptions we make hecause that's the current basis of what our technology is like?

The only prerequisite for something being a device is that it is a mechanism designed to perform a specific purpose. The nature of said mechanism isn't restricted at all, other than it being a mechanism (which includes biological mechanisms, and even intelligent ones).


Keep looking up the definition for Mechanism and Equipment. Both are highly implied to be non-biological in nature.

It's really a stretch to say that they are devices. Like "you are inventing new definitions" level of stretching.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in ca
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'




Kapuskasing, ON

I think your interpretation is quite provincial, no doubt due to the limitations of our current modern day era. We lack the capability of creating intelligent biological devices such as a manufactured race with a goal and purpose. The Old Ones, based on fluff, clearly are capable. I've not seen any part of the definition limit itself to the inanimate nor any implications. Instead I see some real world examples of devices. Which again are limited to what we currently do but they are merely examples. Adding examples doesn't change the definition nor does extrapolating unrelated qualities from the example add to the definition. The examples are there to be viewed in direct relation to the definition in the entry.
   
Made in gb
Agile Revenant Titan






Highly implied but not outright stated, principally because the barrier between technological and biological is pretty fuzzy, and gets fuzzier and fuzzier the further our understanding of biology goes, let alone when you start delving into sci-fi universes where their understanding is way beyond ours.

Here's a quick example.

I make a little device to turn a wheel. It's a simple piston with a fuelling system. I gather you would unequivocally state that that is a device.

I make a second device to turn the same wheel. This time, it is a simple biological arm, plumbed up to a rudimentary blood supply to provide nutrients. Is that not a device? I've made it to do precisely the same thing. It still works on mechanical principles. The only thing that differs is which mechanical principles and the material it's made of (neither of which are stated as exclusion criteria in any definition I've found of device or mechanism that I've come across searching for it).

Here's another example that is within our current technological reach.

For a lot of applications of drugs in medicine, their effectiveness is increased by delivering them to targeted areas. Previous attempts have constructed little metal nanomachines to try and deliver the drugs to a prescribed location, which hasn't proven to be fantastically effective. More recent attempts have constructed devices (and they are devices) from biological components (amino acids and peptides primarily), and utilising mechanisms gleaned from how viruses function, to deliver the drugs. Both of these are devices, irrespective of what they are made from (or the fact that some examples of the latter is largely indistinguishable from a virus).

Everything is chemicals, everything is mechanics. Once you understand how to manipulate biology sufficiently well to create it (as we know the Old Ones were able to), biology simply becomes an extension of mechanics (which it already is at its most fundamental processes). The same thing holds for intelligence and understanding of creating it.

I'm not inventing new definitions of the word. I'm working within the letter and spirit of the definition of 'device', but without the misguided cultural blinker that a device has to be made of metal or wood (which itself is a biological substance).

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ProwlerPC wrote:
I think your interpretation is quite provincial, no doubt due to the limitations of our current modern day era. We lack the capability of creating intelligent biological devices such as a manufactured race with a goal and purpose. The Old Ones, based on fluff, clearly are capable. I've not seen any part of the definition limit itself to the inanimate nor any implications. Instead I see some real world examples of devices. Which again are limited to what we currently do but they are merely examples. Adding examples doesn't change the definition nor does extrapolating unrelated qualities from the example add to the definition. The examples are there to be viewed in direct relation to the definition in the entry.


Man you said that much more succinctly than I did!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/10/05 12:11:53


Check out may pan-Eldar projects http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/702683.page

Also my Rogue Trader-esque spaceport factions http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/709686.page

Oh, and I've come up with a semi-expanded Shadow War idea and need some feedback! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/726439.page

Lastly I contribute to a blog too! http://objectivesecured.blogspot.co.uk/ Check it out! It's not just me  
   
Made in ca
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'




Kapuskasing, ON

Creating entire races for a purpose isn't the only example of the Old Ones creating intelligent devices. Technology being an itinerant process of building tools so those tools can build better tools, before making the Web way the Old Ones created three devices for the job. One of those devices is a sentient gargantuan Warp worm called the Ouroboros.
   
Made in us
Speedy Swiftclaw Biker





Holy gak, can you spankers stop derailing the thread arguing over the definition of device?
   
Made in us
Krazy Grot Kutta Driva





I liked the derail. I'm also 100% in the "created life is a device" camp.
   
Made in gb
Agile Revenant Titan






Haha, as far as I'm concerned, the original question was pretty much answered prior to the derail.

Q: How do Orks travel through space?
A: Haphazardly, having great fun krumpin' daemons on the way

Check out may pan-Eldar projects http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/702683.page

Also my Rogue Trader-esque spaceport factions http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/709686.page

Oh, and I've come up with a semi-expanded Shadow War idea and need some feedback! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/726439.page

Lastly I contribute to a blog too! http://objectivesecured.blogspot.co.uk/ Check it out! It's not just me  
   
Made in us
Virulent Space Marine dedicated to Nurgle





Eye of Terror

I best heard warp travel for humans and orks as humans trying to slide through a crowded room as quietly and unnoticeably as possible, while orks barge in screaming then start running into as many people as possible.

"Show me where it says that in the codex!" said Learchus.
"You know brother that I cannot." said Uriel.
 NenkotaMoon wrote:
AoS raped our cattle and stampeded our women.
 
   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran




 Ynneadwraith wrote:
Haha, as far as I'm concerned, the original question was pretty much answered prior to the derail.

Q: How do Orks travel through space?
A: Haphazardly, having great fun krumpin' daemons on the way


Like the turtles in Nemo.
Cmon dude, replace turbular, with fighting.
Atleast back when 2nd and they had character was a thing. Now they just sort of roar at whatever, die everywhere and iz green
   
 
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