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I hope we get our platoon structure back. I bet they will do it like 7th, only one per platoon. I hope our vehicles get better, and something to help our big guns to suck less, even with a Moo, they are too much diced based to be effective, and they cost too much to be taken in squadrons to mitigate this. I am kinda hyped for regimental doctrines, but I will just rename them with my buddy to suit our fluff.



And swear to the Emperor, if militarum Tempestus won't get any relics, formations, in a codex with only 5 units, I'll...I dunno, but something will happen.


Make IG great again !

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Okay, here goes my $0.02

DERP.

I was hoping to see regiment rules based around regiment types, since planets give a variety of different regiments to the IG.

Having each planet give a specific buff is bad, for sure (Cadians get re-roll 1s with lasguns that they've had since 3.5...
...
...
but I want to run a Cadian tank company).

But having only infantry buffed is even worse; that means that essentially the entire rest of the imperial guard that isn't an infantry regiment is stupid.

Are you telling me that the Catachans use their Leman Russes exactly the same as the Tallarn, who use them the same as the Cadians, who use them the same as the Valhallans? But suddenly when it comes to infantry, who went through the same basic training, they suddenly get super-special awesome skills?

That's silly.

I hope the regiment rules work on more than just infantry, and I hope that they are generalist enough to provide SOME bonus to literally the other eleventy whatever different types of regiment that don't start with INF and end in ANTRY.

Tank-antry? If they follow the AdMech mold, it wouldn't be limited like Chapter/Legion tactics are (AdMech 'Forgeworld tactics' are <Forgeworld> keyword based, not unit-type keyword based).

GhostRecon wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Okay, here goes my $0.02

DERP.

I was hoping to see regiment rules based around regiment types, since planets give a variety of different regiments to the IG.

Having each planet give a specific buff is bad, for sure (Cadians get re-roll 1s with lasguns that they've had since 3.5...
...
...
but I want to run a Cadian tank company).

But having only infantry buffed is even worse; that means that essentially the entire rest of the imperial guard that isn't an infantry regiment is stupid.

Are you telling me that the Catachans use their Leman Russes exactly the same as the Tallarn, who use them the same as the Cadians, who use them the same as the Valhallans? But suddenly when it comes to infantry, who went through the same basic training, they suddenly get super-special awesome skills?

That's silly.

I hope the regiment rules work on more than just infantry, and I hope that they are generalist enough to provide SOME bonus to literally the other eleventy whatever different types of regiment that don't start with INF and end in ANTRY.

Tank-antry? If they follow the AdMech mold, it wouldn't be limited like Chapter/Legion tactics are (AdMech 'Forgeworld tactics' are <Forgeworld> keyword based, not unit-type keyword based).

Yes, though I also mean to say things like the Cadian bonus, which is that they can 're-roll ones to hit with lasguns' but if you're running a tank company that doesn't do gak.

GhostRecon wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
Please please please let one of the regiments be DKoK.

Will never happen though.

They already have regiment rules (Cult of Sacrifice).

Why would they need them in two places?

...they listed the 8 regiments getting "Chapter/Legion/Forgeworld/Regiment Tactics" on the article. No mystery here for what 8 they are; just a question of who gets what.

...now there are rules for 8 regiments of the Astra Militarum. Which regiments, you ask? Cadia and Catachan will, of course, be included, as well as new rules for Armageddon, Tallarn, Valhalla, Vostroya, Mordian and the Militarum Tempestus.

I think DkoK and Elysian's will get an update "at some point" with regiment tactics and potentially a stratagem each once FW pull their finger out. The reason being, is the same happened to Grey Knights in that they already had a listed "trait" in the index but got it updated and added to in their codex. I also expect similar things for BA, DA and SWs.

I expect this to happen for everything FW produces eventually. But, as for the time scale, that is anyones guess.


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 Unit1126PLL wrote:


I hope the regiment rules work on more than just infantry, and I hope that they are generalist enough to provide SOME bonus to literally the other eleventy whatever different types of regiment that don't start with INF and end in ANTRY.

I'd be very very very surprised if these traits affect everything in the army.

I think it'll be more akin to Marines, affecting Infantry and Sentinals. If it affects tanks and flyers then Marines have a big right to be y

It'll be interesting to see what it effects. With admech, one justification for it affecting everything is we have maybe a fourth the units guard or space marines have in the first place. But who knows, it could be a space marines alone focus on infantry as part of their theme.

Hopefully the super heavies won't benefit from tactics at least. That'd be a bit silly.

One thing that is possible, as it seems many units were originally priced with tactics in mind... maybe leman russes are one of the only vehicles that gains regiment doctrines.

 sfshilo wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:
Except from the one who kept claiming conscripts weren't op, or they were needed to make the army work. Then again I think most of them are too embarrassed to even pretend to talk about balance lately.

I'm also hoping that one of the regiments gets popular enough everyone uses them, and in the future we see new IG sculpts with them as the default. Because I hate cadian models and want to see something else.

I might actually ending up running a detachment of IG for my army, if they have any regiments that feel fitting for my tech thralls till we get that FW mechanicus expansion some day.

Except that 100 conscript is not what is broken, it is the ability to ally in beat stick special characters and undercosted tauraxes.

Conscripts are quite easy to handle if you do not just take plasma guns everywhere.

Pretty much this, it is the exact same as the people whom where whining that Cryx where overpowered in MK2. Cryx where faster, yes, and harder to hit and they debuffed your units. But they had virtually no buffing spells and whilst they may have been fast and hard to hit they went down like a ton of scrap iron when you did due to them having relatively low armour and fewer hit boxes when compared to other factions.
Sadly, players continued to optimise their forces to face big tough hitty things and them whined when they faced Cryx and had to actually boost to hit because the big tough things they minmaxed against where easy to hit. End result? Cryx has now been nerfed to the bottom in MK3.
It is the same with Conscripts and 40K. Players minmax their forces to be able to wipe the floor with small elite armies of tough bods, at the expense of anti-horde gear. When they find themselves facing a horde they get ruffled because they cannot have the easy victory they consider their right.
Hell, a friend of mine can go through 50 Conscripts backed by a Commissar in a single turn. He throws Mortarrion at them and laughs. Or he uses flamers and laughs. Or any one of the doze other options available, and laughs. Because he brings all comers lists, not an anti-elite list.

Anyway, back on topic:
Please please please can we have buffs for Veterans, Chimera's and Leman Russ squadrons? They desperately need them as all three of those are currently sick jokes as they stand. And the Baneblade needs to lose its '-1 to hit when moving' rule.

Kdash wrote:

I'd be very very very surprised if these traits affect everything in the army.

I think it'll be more akin to Marines, affecting Infantry and Sentinals. If it affects tanks and flyers then Marines have a big right to be y

I mean, if it's just infantry and Sentinels then Guard players have a big right to be salty, seeing as how Marines have a huge variety of Dreadnought-keyworded vehicles ranging from 8-wound hybrid CC/shooty things to 14-wound T8 2+/4++ giants with massive firepower. I feel like at the very least Guard tactics should apply to Leman Russ keyworded vehicles.

Dionysodorus wrote:

Kdash wrote:

I'd be very very very surprised if these traits affect everything in the army.

I think it'll be more akin to Marines, affecting Infantry and Sentinals. If it affects tanks and flyers then Marines have a big right to be y

I mean, if it's just infantry and Sentinels then Guard players have a big right to be salty, seeing as how Marines have a huge variety of Dreadnought-keyworded vehicles ranging from 8-wound hybrid CC/shooty things to 14-wound T8 2+/4++ giants with massive firepower. I feel like at the very least Guard tactics should apply to Leman Russ keyworded vehicles.

I'm tempted to agree on the Leman Russ keyword, but, i'm just a little pessimistic. That said, they could get them and they'll still prob be not that efficient.


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 master of ordinance wrote:
And the Baneblade needs to lose its '-1 to hit when moving' rule.

This is needed of course. It's just a stupid oversight right now in my mind, though i've never had any response about it when raised as part of FAQ requests.

 master of ordinance wrote:

Hell, a friend of mine can go through 50 Conscripts backed by a Commissar in a single turn. He throws Mortarrion at them and laughs. Or he uses flamers and laughs. Or any one of the doze other options available, and laughs. Because he brings all comers lists, not an anti-elite list.

Morty won't one shot a conscript unit generally. Even if every melee one of his melee attack wounds, you buff him, he casts the anti horde psychic power, throws grenades which get an average result, and his aura goes off, while he is is at max statline, he still kills 40ish.

Do you know how many flamers it takes to kill a unit of 50 conscripts in one turn on average? Roughly 32, 3.5 shots each, 2/3 wound 2/3 bypass armor.

No it isn't a matter of taking more anti horde, its conscripts being absurdly durable even against 450-600 points of dedicated anti horde weaponry. Almost nothing kills them efficiently compared to every other unit in the game. We've all played with them, you are full of it, don't blatantly lie I will call you out for it. Conscripts laugh at the idea that either of the things you mentioned are an actual threat to them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dionysodorus wrote:

Kdash wrote:

I'd be very very very surprised if these traits affect everything in the army.

I think it'll be more akin to Marines, affecting Infantry and Sentinals. If it affects tanks and flyers then Marines have a big right to be y

I mean, if it's just infantry and Sentinels then Guard players have a big right to be salty, seeing as how Marines have a huge variety of Dreadnought-keyworded vehicles ranging from 8-wound hybrid CC/shooty things to 14-wound T8 2+/4++ giants with massive firepower. I feel like at the very least Guard tactics should apply to Leman Russ keyworded vehicles.

That'd be my guess, leman russes and maybe sentinels, plus infantry. Maybe even transports as well.

The Ad Mech codex has no such distinction. That said, our only vehicles are walkers.

But I think the IG codex is where, if it's gonna happen, they'll make some regiments better at foot soldiers, and others better at vehicles.

No one ever seems to mention that conscripts have a leadership of 4, yet 'bring snipers' is never mentioned as a very simple way to stop them (obviously, not all factions have snipers (but no one cares about Orks)).

<100 points of snipers will kill a commissar most of the time.

You only have to kill 28 of them to get rid of a unit of 50.

Doesn't Mortarion have a mortal wound bomb that can kill the characters supporting the conscripts in 2 player turns?

Anyway, limiting conscripts' orders is largely irrelevant to the way most people use them - to protect the fancy characters from other factions, since IG doesn't have any of their own.

 Purifier wrote:
The Ad Mech codex has no such distinction. That said, our only vehicles are walkers.

But I think the IG codex is where, if it's gonna happen, they'll make some regiments better at foot soldiers, and others better at vehicles.

I think I remember someone getting a quote that the regiment doctrines would be broad, like the others have been, but that stratagems would give more distinction between types of regiment. No exact explanation on what that meant, but I think most interpreted it as having stratagems that resembled the chapter master stratagem from SM, upgrading certain units to give different buffs to different unit types.

Of course, with admech they already did make some better at infantry, some at tanks, etc. Some tactics are mostly useless on tanks compared to infantry (6+ to avoiding losing your last wound, rerolls in the fight phase, or the buff to assault/RF weapons on the move) and some are good on everything (two canticles a turn), and some are best on vehicles or long range shooting units (the -1 to hit tactic).

So they could easily make some units better with tanks, even if they don't mean to. The fact that the best tank regiment could easily end up being tallarn or catachan is also kinda funny.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

jaxor1983 wrote:
No one ever seems to mention that conscripts have a leadership of 4, yet 'bring snipers' is never mentioned as a very simple way to stop them (obviously, not all factions have snipers (but no one cares about Orks)).

<100 points of snipers will kill a commissar most of the time.

You only have to kill 28 of them to get rid of a unit of 50.

Doesn't Mortarion have a mortal wound bomb that can kill the characters supporting the conscripts in 2 player turns?

Anyway, limiting conscripts' orders is largely irrelevant to the way most people use them - to protect the fancy characters from other factions, since IG doesn't have any of their own.

Commissars are 30 points each. If you do this and it works once, they just grab a couple extra for redundancy and/or are more careful using tanks to block line of sight.

A 7" mortal wound radius will never touch a commissar unless the player running guard is brain dead.

There are no proper counters to conscripts currently. It's been discussed to death and there is a reason we see imperial armies using them consistently at the top of tournaments. Unless the unit becomes less durable, they remain broken.

Catachan preview up. Different bonuses for infantry and vehicles. The infantry bit is crap but who cares, look at that vehicle re-roll!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/09/25/regimental-focus-catachan-sep25gw-homepage-post-2/

 Corrode wrote:
Catachan preview up. Different bonuses for infantry and vehicles. The infantry bit is crap but who cares, look at that vehicle re-roll!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/09/25/regimental-focus-catachan-sep25gw-homepage-post-2/

That is really flavourful for Catachans. Stronger than the average (you finally get to put those muscles to use, soldier!) and excel with weapons like flamers, as they should. I hope they get some cool stratagems to really allow for full Catachan armies.

And Jesus christ, as if the Deathstrike hasn't always been a mindless enormous amount of eggs in one basket, it now becomes an even bigger egg to fill out the basket with a 3(!)CP stratagem attached to it.
I mean, the stratagem is brutal, but crikey, that's a lot of funds into one shot.

I'll wait till the 'dex is out but that random-shot-reroll bonus for vehicles is frankly all i've ever spent CP on with my superheavy tank regiment.

It looks like the 2nd Concordian ISHTR is becoming a Catachan-doctrine copycat.

Catachans sound pretty fun for a melee blob based list. Might actually make it kind of worth it to charge after rapid firing with an infantry squad against the right targets!

 DoomMouse wrote:
Catachans sound pretty fun for a melee blob based list. Might actually make it kind of worth it to charge after rapid firing with an infantry squad against the right targets!

S3 to S4 is a pretty big deal. You go up a step on both T3 and T4 targets, which covers basically any troop choice in the game.

Honestly Catachans sound strong for damn near any list type.

That's why I'm saying "I hope the other Regiment rules are this strong." If GW manages to balance them and make them ALL this appealing...

... WOW it's gonna be fun.

It'd be neat to see guard play like they are advertised, rather than a ton of cheap bodies and tauroxes, backed up by beta-strike plasma and manticores hiding inside of buildings.

"Want to ensure the Shadowsword’s volcano cannon puts down a pesky Renegade Knight? Pick the Catachans for your regiment."

So the question about the doctrines applying to SHVs is answered.

 Asmodai wrote:
"Want to ensure the Shadowsword’s volcano cannon puts down a pesky Renegade Knight? Pick the Catachans for your regiment."

So the question about the doctrines applying to SHVs is answered.

10/10 would play 2ndC ISHTR again...

... oh wait I do it every week.

I'm so excited for this 'dex now.

Wow! Catachans look to be awesome in every part of the list! Infantry, Armor, and artillery! I can't wait to see the rest! Something tells me we aren't going to care about a Conscript nerf by the time we get the book.

My lord, the Catachan trait affects infantry and vehicles. I sure hope that's the trend for the other regimental traits.

Well, neither one benefits from the full trait, so it's more like they have two separate traits in one. One for infantry, a different one for vehicles.

I like this trait. I'd like to see more like it. Maybe one where the vehicle benefit is ignoring the penalty for firing heavy weapons on the move?

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I'll wait till the 'dex is out but that random-shot-reroll bonus for vehicles is frankly all i've ever spent CP on with my superheavy tank regiment.

It looks like the 2nd Concordian ISHTR is becoming a Catachan-doctrine copycat.

You don´t have to spent CP, you have just to choose catachan as regiment.
It´s a really good one, wondering if the bonuses of the other regiments are also that nice.

Well, I don't think I've been so happy to have been proven wrong about something. Seeing us get traits for both our armor and our infantry (and them being different things that make sense for each part of the army) is really cool.

No idea what they'll do to make 8 different regiment traits for both vehicles and infantry though. The Catachan one alone is one of the more involved "Chapter tactic" style rules we've ever seen, if every regiment on the list gets one like this we'll be in for a sweet codex.

I can't help but feel infantry costs will be going back up a point though. These are some pretty decent buffs when you consider a guardsman's basic statline. That +1 S for Catachans helps them out quite a lot in close combat and will help make them surprisingly punchy on countercharges for no more than guardsmen cost. They're not going to drag down entire genestealer units or anything, but on things like your officers and sarge's with power weapons they'll hit like space marines.

Firefox1 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I'll wait till the 'dex is out but that random-shot-reroll bonus for vehicles is frankly all i've ever spent CP on with my superheavy tank regiment.

It looks like the 2nd Concordian ISHTR is becoming a Catachan-doctrine copycat.

You don´t have to spent CP, you have just to choose catachan as regiment.
It´s a really good one, wondering if the bonuses of the other regiments are also that nice.

Right, that's my point. With the Index, I've really never spent a CP except on re-rolls for shots-fired.

Now I don't even have to do that.

I love it.

I feel that while they mostly did a good job mating strong, worthwhile rules with fluff, I think giving vehicles such a heavy emphasis is pretty off for Catachans. Perhaps, instead of all vehicles, it should be all units, but just flamers, heavy flamers, and inferno cannons? I mean, I want better Russes and Basilisks as much as the next IG player (and my God, Russes/Basilisks do need this boost), but just doesn't feel right for that to apply to Catachans, of all regiments.

I wonder what they're going to do with the Auxilia, Ogryns and Bullgryns and even ratlings.

They currently can't take orders, because they're not allowed to be the same regiment as the leaders... but that would mean they aren't allowed to be Catachan Ogryn either, and so wouldn't get legion traits.

So since they have a blanket +1s for catachan does that mean the Vostroyans can look for the fabled 4+ armor save as their regiment, since they all wear carapace armor?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 KommissarKiln wrote:
I feel that while they mostly did a good job mating strong, worthwhile rules with fluff, I think giving vehicles such a heavy emphasis is pretty off for Catachans. Perhaps, instead of all vehicles, it should be all units, but just flamers, heavy flamers, and inferno cannons? I mean, I want better Russes and Basilisks as much as the next IG player (and my God, Russes/Basilisks do need this boost), but just doesn't feel right for that to apply to Catachans, of all regiments.

Yeah, im not sure about them getting vehicle rules, next thing you know Steel Legion is going to get reorll 1s in close combat and -1 to hit.