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Derek4real wrote:
you use certain stratagems when the opportunity is right...

How else would you use this Stratagem? I mean the second you tell them your using this stratagem they can counter deploy.

the Stratagem says DURING DEPLOYMENT. As long as I have something to deploy, I'm still in the deployment phase. I just have to make sure I have plenty of drops. The Stratagem allows me to put them in ambush regardless of if they are on the table or not. Cause if I wasn't gonna use the Stratagem unless the right opportunity was given.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:


I don't believe so, can you place models that have the capabilities to be held in reserve (Assault Marines/Terminators) in reserve after deploying them on the table? No, you can't remove them from the table and hold them off to the side. Same with the Strategem for the Raven Guard, you can't infiltrate something that's already on the board.

The most logical explanation is that you select that Strategem before the game and declare the units doing it, paying its CP cost as well. It doesn't seem to FORCE you to infiltrate them, so you can place them in your deployment zone if you choose, but it seems you have to declare it because it looks to be a Strategem that takes place before the game begins.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ah, I may be wrong then! Interesting, seems pretty busted if it works that way.

Your Raven Guard Stratagem says:
(1CP) Use this Stratagem when you set up a Raven Guard Infantry unit during deployment. You can set up the unit in the shadows instead of placing it on the battlefield.

In your case your Stratagem specifically tells you when your deploying said unit.

There is no such restriction on the Tallaran Ambush.

So in that case you would be okay with me going back and using Auto Launchers in my Shooting phase instead of shooting if as a result of my shooting certain things happened (or didn't happen) whereby I decided using my Auto Launchers instead would have been a better option?

No, I don't think so. While there is no restriction against going back and taking back placing them on the battlefield, there is no provision allowing you to do so either. Indeed, you only have an allowance to place them in ambush as an alternative to placing them on the battlefield. Once you have placed them on the battlefield you have made the choice and the opportunity to perform the alternative is lost.

I, too, need clarification on Ambush, so I don't think this is hijacking the thread. It focuses on Tallarn transports. If I have, say, two six-man Special Weapons Squads in a Chimera, all three units are Tallarn and I want to use Ambush, which scenario applies:
1. I would have to declare all three units towards Ambush, then state that the two infantry units are in the Chimera in Ambush reserve
2. I would have one unit against Ambush in with the Chimera, that also happens to have two Special Weapons Squads inside and gives me two more units I could name.

I believe it's (1), but I'm hearing that the deployment rules for embarked transports during standard deployment would apply in this situation, too, giving me one drop of three units counting as one unit against Ambush. I just can't find anything to substantiate this. It doesn't seem right to me.

Thoughts? Directions to rulings I can use as a basis for future contests?

In your example, that is three units being put into Ambush.

Deployment rules allowing you to put them on or off the table as a single drop doesn't stop them from being three separate units for all other game purposes.

Yeah, it certainly wouldn't be a single ambush selection. I was wondering though if you're declaring you're going to set them up in ambush that surely requires you to then set them up on the battlefield per the Ambush Strategem rather than embarked on a transport, doesn't it?

Tropic Thunder,
I also wonder the very same thing...
What prevents me from simply 'Setting Up' a bunch of Units inside a Transport that was itself 'Set up in Ambush?'
I also wonder why the Drop Pod entry specifically mention Units Embarked are also 'set up In Orbit?'

I mean unless the mission has an order for placing units, just announce the stratagem last and deploy those three "in ambush" last

 JinxDragon wrote:
Tropic Thunder,
I also wonder the very same thing...
What prevents me from simply 'Setting Up' a bunch of Units inside a Transport that was itself 'Set up in Ambush?'
I also wonder why the Drop Pod entry specifically mention Units Embarked are also 'set up In Orbit?'

Because otherwise nothing gives permission for a unit without the ability to be set up in orbit to be set up off the table using this bespoke rule. It's a simple work around to allow the Dtop Pod to have occupants.

Thank you all for your responses. I thought the other approach was too hinky.

As for being able to embark them, I don't think that's an issue at all as the infantry units were declared in the first place together with the other units. For declaration purposes, I would state that I was using Ambush, declaring the Transport as a unit in Reserve, carrying the other two units as embarked units fulfilling the other two slots allowed to me by the Transport deployment declaration rules. One drop, three units, but they all happen to be in Ambush rather than on the table.

Do those 3 units count as 3 drops (so the other player must immediately place 3 of his units) or they just vanish ?

If they vanish, the stratagem could also be used to get the +1 bonus to the "who shall start" roll.

monsieurgustav wrote:
Do those 3 units count as 3 drops (so the other player must immediately place 3 of his units) or they just vanish ?

If they vanish, the stratagem could also be used to get the +1 bonus to the "who shall start" roll.

They are put into reserves, but all 3 would count as a single deployment.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

Because otherwise nothing gives permission for a unit without the ability to be set up in orbit to be set up off the table using this bespoke rule. It's a simple work around to allow the Dtop Pod to have occupants.

Was my conclusion as well, it is why I brought the specific wording in the first place, yet I encounter people claiming it is a 'wonky outcome:'
Some will argue that permission to start Embarked in the Transport is enough to... well, be Embarked in that transport
Others will argue that it makes no sense that a 'Drop Ship' type Transport would be forced to carry Units that themselves arrive without the need for Transports

Of course, none of this would occur if they stopped granting 'deep strike' to a whole bunch of Units simply because they had the right Keywords....

Had a question about this stratagem, may as well ask it here:

Do you have to bring all three units on at the same time? Was thinking about leaving a cheap unit off the table for late game objective grabbing, using the other two to do damage.