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Made in gb
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I'm thinking post credits Hal Jordan. With potential surprise Abin Sur turning up partway through the film, saving the league, then dying.
   
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 Paradigm wrote:
My guess is that if Lantern shows up (and to be honest, I doubt he will... If they'd cast anyone, I think we'd have heard at least rumours), it'll be Hal and he'll show up as either a final scene or post-credits scene, crashing to Earth with a 'Holy crap guys, Darkseid is coming' warning. Given that Lantern isn't due his own film until 2020 at the earliest, we could well see him in a JL sequel before his solo outing with the Corps.

On a side note, I'd love to see Jessica Cruz make an appearance down the line, but she's not someone you can start with, I don't think. She's a fantastic character but a terrible Lantern, at least initially, and I think we need to see a highly competent Lantern like Hal or John (please not Kyle! ) in a lead role before you can really make that contrast work. The real 'shame' with the Lanterns is that they have such a huge and largely self-contained mythos to draw from, mainly thanks to Geoff Johns' work, and most of that will fall by the wayside in the films... You could feasibly build a whole Lanterns cinematic universe without ever touching the rest of the DC universe, but unless we get 5+ different Lantern films I doubt we'll see more than the headline stuff. Hal, John, The Guardians, Sinestro, maybe some stuff with Parallax. The chances of seeing Guy or Jessica or Larfleez or Atrocitus are pretty low, I think.


Well, don't forget that Geoff Johns is calling a lot of the shots now for the DCEU. The movies after JL will be director-driven, but on the other hand Johns isn't going to approve a director and vision that doesn't treat the GL stuff properly.

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Oh, I'm sure it'll be handled well, GL is probably the upcoming DC film I have the highest hope for as I just love the Lantern Corps source material and while I don't actually hate the last attempt, I think there's incredible potential for a film that's really epic in scope and with some amazing visuals. I just doubt they'll deviate much from the standard Green Lanterns Good, Sinestro Corps Bad storyline at first, which is not necessarily a bad thing but I'd really like to see some of the more 'obscure' stuff like the Red Lanterns or Guy Gardener or the Manhunters show up down the line, and I reckon I ought to temper my expectations a little; Let's be honest, no matter how much Johns is involved, we're not getting a live action Larfleez any time soon!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/10 16:20:23


 
   
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Another paint by numbers super hero flick. Ho hum, count me out

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I wouldn't be surprised if we see some alien Lantern show up so Steppenwolf can Worf him. Hopefully the next GL movie will be better than the last one.

   
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 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Hopefully the next GL movie will be better than the last one.


The shame of that film is the things they got right. Reynolds was fine as Hal. Mark Strong was an excellent Sinestro. The Corps-related stuff was solid overall. I didn't even mind the CGI costumes -- they made them seem alive and energized. They just needed a better story.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/10 18:08:57


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 gorgon wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Hopefully the next GL movie will be better than the last one.


The shame of that film is the things they got right. Reynolds was fine as Hal. Mark Strong was an excellent Sinestro. The Corps-related stuff was solid overall. I didn't even mind the CGI costumes -- they made them seem alive and energized. They just needed a better story.


I completely agree with all of that. They also needed to rethink the main villain.

   
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 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
 gorgon wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Hopefully the next GL movie will be better than the last one.


The shame of that film is the things they got right. Reynolds was fine as Hal. Mark Strong was an excellent Sinestro. The Corps-related stuff was solid overall. I didn't even mind the CGI costumes -- they made them seem alive and energized. They just needed a better story.


I completely agree with all of that. They also needed to rethink the main villain.


No doubt. I think the cool thing at studios at the time was to save the iconic villain for the sequel, a la Batman Begins/Dark Knight. But you don't get to the sequel without a good villain to help drive the story. And GL's rogue's gallery isn't that strong outside of ringed villains.

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Expectations aren't terribly high (I'm getting a slight Bay-Transformers vibe), but I hope I'll be pleasantly surprised.

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 Alpharius wrote:
 gorgon wrote:
In other words, "I'm just going to decide to hate this no matter which direction it falls."


I think you've nailed it!


Given how badly-written the movies have been prior to WW, Bob would be forgiven for assuming JL will be pure gak. WW appears to be the exception that proves the rule.

In my case, I will wait for my local library to get their copy of JL on Blu-Ray, and watch it once the 30-day "rental" period is up. If it's great, awesome. If not, at least I didn't waste any of my hard-earned money on it.

   
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I would kind of love it if we got a Guy Gardner GL, just because everyone's so fixated on if it would be Hal or John.

 
   
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 JohnHwangDD wrote:
 Alpharius wrote:
 gorgon wrote:
In other words, "I'm just going to decide to hate this no matter which direction it falls."


I think you've nailed it!


Given how badly-written the movies have been prior to WW, Bob would be forgiven for assuming JL will be pure gak. WW appears to be the exception that proves the rule.

In my case, I will wait for my local library to get their copy of JL on Blu-Ray, and watch it once the 30-day "rental" period is up. If it's great, awesome. If not, at least I didn't waste any of my hard-earned money on it.


Yeah, I don't believe.

   
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 Elemental wrote:
Expectations aren't terribly high (I'm getting a slight Bay-Transformers vibe), but I hope I'll be pleasantly surprised.


Honestly, I don't think they're trying to make JL anything more than a fun popcorn flick. We'll see if it succeeds. But people shouldn't judge it on a different scale than the average Marvel film in that regard.

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 gorgon wrote:
 Elemental wrote:
Expectations aren't terribly high (I'm getting a slight Bay-Transformers vibe), but I hope I'll be pleasantly surprised.


Honestly, I don't think they're trying to make JL anything more than a fun popcorn flick. We'll see if it succeeds. But people shouldn't judge it on a different scale than the average Marvel film in that regard.


Judging it on the same scale as the Marvel films is more likely to hurt JL, not help it.


I know you feel like the DC movies are underrated by some cabal of Marvel fanboys while Marvel films are inexplicably popular, but the reality is that Marvel movies are popular because lots of people see the quality in them and BVs was panned because lots of people saw the flaws in it. It's just that simple.

And yes, I really hope JL succeeds as a popcorn flick, because I would love to have some more fun DC hero films. However, past experience and the vibes I'm getting from the trailer are preparing me to expect the worst.

   
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 gorgon wrote:
Honestly, I don't think they're trying to make JL anything more than a fun popcorn flick.

We'll see if it succeeds. But people shouldn't judge it on a different scale than the average Marvel film in that regard.


The problem is that DC tends to fail on the "fun" part. The performances are flat to awful (the new Luthor), and the writing is beyond terrible. When I watched Suicide Squad, I was amazed by how aggressively bad it was - people worked very hard to make this a deliberately bad movie, a bad parody of what a movie should be. I fully expected it to be credited to Alan Smithee.

Considering overall quality and enjoyment of the average DC Warner film vs the average Marvel Studios film, one has to be generously grading on a curve. Within the smaller "threat to the world" movies, Thor: The Dark World compares very positively over Suicide Squad, to say nothing of Doctor Strange. When DC shows they can repeatedly execute at Marvel's level, then they'll be on the same scale.

   
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 JohnHwangDD wrote:
 gorgon wrote:
Honestly, I don't think they're trying to make JL anything more than a fun popcorn flick.

We'll see if it succeeds. But people shouldn't judge it on a different scale than the average Marvel film in that regard.


The problem is that DC tends to fail on the "fun" part. The performances are flat to awful (the new Luthor), and the writing is beyond terrible. When I watched Suicide Squad, I was amazed by how aggressively bad it was - people worked very hard to make this a deliberately bad movie, a bad parody of what a movie should be. I fully expected it to be credited to Alan Smithee.

Considering overall quality and enjoyment of the average DC Warner film vs the average Marvel Studios film, one has to be generously grading on a curve. Within the smaller "threat to the world" movies, Thor: The Dark World compares very positively over Suicide Squad, to say nothing of Doctor Strange. When DC shows they can repeatedly execute at Marvel's level, then they'll be on the same scale.


Disagree to a certain extent - the problem with Suicide Squad was not the fun it was the plot - or lack of it - the first half is pretty good but then the plot fails and the pacing also goes all to hell.

Bats vs Sups again could have been great but they pulled off the miscasting of the Millenium with Lex - perhaps the worst performance I have ever suffered through in a film but also the plot was missing - they just went ERR so Batman fights Superman - do we need to write anything else? Nah guess not

Wonder Woman had all the class, style and finese of a Marvel film - it was a joy to watch - if they have learned their lessons - so will JLA.

Marvel also has had duds - Cap A 1 was poor (unlike the Sequal) in terms of plot and weak main villan and Ant Man / Dr Strange were only OK.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/11 16:52:13


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Thor Dark World was boring. So was the Second Avengers, the Captain America films, and IM III (I liked IM II because of Mickeey Rorke). These are being held up as a high standard, yet are really meh on a Baysplosions level.

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 Mr Morden wrote:
 JohnHwangDD wrote:
The problem is that DC tends to fail on the "fun" part. The performances are flat to awful (the new Luthor), and the writing is beyond terrible.


Disagree to a certain extent - the problem with Suicide Squad was not the fun it was the plot - or lack of it - the first half is pretty good but then the plot fails and the pacing also goes all to hell.

Bats vs Sups again could have been great but they pulled off the miscasting of the Millenium with Lex - perhaps the worst performance I have ever suffered through in a film but also the plot was missing - they just went ERR so Batman fights Superman - do we need to write anything else? Nah guess not


A poor plot with bad pacing - those are writing problems. The world's best actors, director, and producer can't beat a fundamentally bad script.

   
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 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I know you feel like the DC movies are underrated by some cabal of Marvel fanboys while Marvel films are inexplicably popular, but the reality is that Marvel movies are popular because lots of people see the quality in them and BVs was panned because lots of people saw the flaws in it. It's just that simple.

And yes, I really hope JL succeeds as a popcorn flick, because I would love to have some more fun DC hero films. However, past experience and the vibes I'm getting from the trailer are preparing me to expect the worst.


To set the record straight:

I find much of the criticism of Man of Steel to be nearly inexplicable. If someone has a problem with Zod's death, fine. As a fan of the character for over 4 decades, I personally found the no-win scenario to be an interesting jab at the character's long, LONG history of solar-powered Get Out of Jail Free cards (and yes, that obviously includes Superman '78). But that's kind of an 'inside baseball' thing even for nerds. Still, I'll go to my grave saying that MoS was a well-crafted (not perfect, but well-crafted) film. The fact that it's rated lower than Superman Returns (bad acting, dumb story, little action, creepy undertones) on the aggregators shows you everything you need to know about why the aggregators are stupid.

BvS...I get, at least depending on the criticism we're talking about. The ultimate cut really helps the theatrical cut's significant story issues quite a bit, although then it becomes too long and weirdly light on action at 3 hours. The visuals are amazing, far surpassing anything we've ever seen in a superhero film. However, having those particular heroes (for example) roll around in a Fincher-esque grimy bathroom beating each other in the head with sinks is going to turn people off, even before you get to its other issues. Jay Baruchel said that someday people will look back on BvS as the most expensive indie film ever, and that's a great take on it. Snyder made the film HE wanted to make...pretty much everyone else's tastes be damned, and the needs of the studio and franchise be damned. Again, if you read between the lines, it isn't hard to tell that he was already 'off' JL when he stepped down over his personal tragedy.

SS looked like what it was. A film made according to one creative mind's vision, only to be chopped up and re-edited by a trailer company in an attempt to transform it into something it wasn't in the wake of BvS's reviews. FWIW, audiences did like it more than BvS. But I'm not going to tell you that it was a good movie.

Fair?


And Frazz has it right...there's mediocrity all over the MCU that gets too much handwave treatment. I was there opening night for Avengers. I used to be excited about the MCU films. Now...eh. I don't really care much about Infinity War, and definitely won't waste a movie night on Thor 3. It's gotten so formulaic that I know what I'm going to get. So why go?

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 gorgon wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I know you feel like the DC movies are underrated by some cabal of Marvel fanboys while Marvel films are inexplicably popular, but the reality is that Marvel movies are popular because lots of people see the quality in them and BVs was panned because lots of people saw the flaws in it. It's just that simple.

And yes, I really hope JL succeeds as a popcorn flick, because I would love to have some more fun DC hero films. However, past experience and the vibes I'm getting from the trailer are preparing me to expect the worst.


To set the record straight:

I find much of the criticism of Man of Steel to be nearly inexplicable. If someone has a problem with Zod's death, fine. As a fan of the character for over 4 decades, I personally found the no-win scenario to be an interesting jab at the character's long, LONG history of solar-powered Get Out of Jail Free cards (and yes, that obviously includes Superman '78). But that's kind of an 'inside baseball' thing even for nerds. Still, I'll go to my grave saying that MoS was a well-crafted (not perfect, but well-crafted) film. The fact that it's rated lower than Superman Returns (bad acting, dumb story, little action, creepy undertones) on the aggregators shows you everything you need to know about why the aggregators are stupid.

BvS...I get, at least depending on the criticism we're talking about. The ultimate cut really helps the theatrical cut's significant story issues quite a bit, although then it becomes too long and weirdly light on action at 3 hours. The visuals are amazing, far surpassing anything we've ever seen in a superhero film. However, having those particular heroes (for example) roll around in a Fincher-esque grimy bathroom beating each other in the head with sinks is going to turn people off, even before you get to its other issues. Jay Baruchel said that someday people will look back on BvS as the most expensive indie film ever, and that's a great take on it. Snyder made the film HE wanted to make...pretty much everyone else's tastes be damned, and the needs of the studio and franchise be damned. Again, if you read between the lines, it isn't hard to tell that he was already 'off' JL when he stepped down over his personal tragedy.


I thought Man of Steel had a better 2nd half than the sheer drug induced nonsonse of the Kyrpton

Still not seeing how anything can justify the travesty that was the portrayal of Loopy Lex in BvS.

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 Mr Morden wrote:
Still not seeing how anything can justify the travesty that was the portrayal of Loopy Lex in BvS.


Yeah, the choices that Eisenberg made are certainly questionable. Early on, I thought I knew where his performance was going -- public loopiness on the basketball court scene, but cold calculation during the private negotiation with the senator over Zod's body. But no, he went pretty much full loopy the rest of the film.

I thought maybe the Ultimate Cut would shed some light on it. Maybe the writing was simply so bad that Eisenberg didn't know what to do with the character, right? But the main improvement in the UC is that it makes Luthor's plan more visible and the following character reactions more sensible. I think maybe he just thought it was kid's stuff and decided to 'have fun with it' and go way over the top.

It's probably instructive to note that Kevin Spacey is a great actor, and he was terrible in Superman Returns as the same character because he decided to ham it up like he was Gene Hackman in 1978. *shrug*

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I think with Lex you have to apply the same caveat as you do with Clark in MoS; we all know where these characters are going, but they're not there yet. Next time we see Lex, I expect a much more accurate portrayal. His confidence has been dented, his bravado pierced, and he's realised he's going to have to up his game and spend less time faffing about if he wants to bring down Superman and prove himself right. That scene at the end of BvS where he's shaved bald isn't just a nod to his comic counterpart, it's a metaphor for his transformation into that more recognisable character.

Give him a second outing in JL or a Superman sequel and I think people will find him a lot more familiar.

 
   
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But noone is justifying Loopy Lex in BvS.... So *shrug*.


On the other hand, there's what? 5 times more MCU films than DC right now and there's what, 3 worthwhile villains in the whole franchise (Not including Netflix).

On the other hand, that's all a bit "what-about-ey." Overall I think Justice League is going to be fine. It's not going to match the Avengers in the public conciousness but I think it's going to be a "solid" film.
   
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Personally, I just don't really care for the Superman presented in Man of Steel at all. He comes across as a hodgepodge of attempts to make the character more complicated by stapling on other popular cliches at the cost of everything that makes the character stand out in the first place. It's not a particularly bad movie, but it doesn't really rate for me either.

I would absolutely adore to see Green Lantern done right but I don't see it ever happening. The problem with the property is that everything great about it is built on some heavy piles of garbage. I think the best way to pull it off would be a trilogy of:

1) Solo movie on Earth
2) Training Day in Space
3) Sinestro Corps War

The last movie really fails by trying to shove 1 & 2 in the same film and honestly, I cannot fathom a solo movie on earth that would fly. The only times GL has worked on earth are essentially when its been the battlefield for an alien attack, but at the same time, a lot of the earth stuff is what makes Hal a compelling character. Ultimately, I'm kind of afraid the real problem is just that GL isn't a character that people can really see as cool enough for mainstream appeal unfortunately.
   
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 Compel wrote:
Overall I think Justice League is going to be fine. It's not going to match the Avengers in the public conciousness but I think it's going to be a "solid" film.


I think WB would be more than fine with that, as it'd allow them to gracefully turn the page and switch focus to the next phase of DCEU films. Which I think have a chance to be much better received.


@LunarSol -- One approach to GL would be to skip the origin story. Make it a 'requel' like Marvel's Incredible Hulk film was to the Ang Lee Hulk movie. It's not like his origin story is that involved or that his power is hard to explain. In fact, the rumors are that the GL film will be sort of a 'buddy cop' film with Hal Jordan and John Stewart, so they're probably going this way with it. One might be inclined to groan at the idea of 'Lethal Weapon in Space', but it'd allow them to keep the story in space with GLs doing proper GL space cop stuff, while giving plenty of opportunity for the characters to shine in their interactions with each other.

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Yeah, I just worry what you lose or how you have to structure the story without the origin. It's not like Spiderman where the public has a firm grasp on the character and doesn't need some explanation.
   
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This sort of leads me back to the idea of doing Abin Sur & the origin in a couple of scenes in Justice League.

Abin Sur showing up to help against bad guys, dying heroically. The ring flying off.

Post credit scene, have Hal Jordan find it. Then, the Green Lantern Corps film is a few years away, so actually set it a few years later.

Anything relevant you can have via flashback. After all, for all of BvS's many faults, this version of Batman's origin story was covered during the titles sequence and the Ryan Reynolds Green Lantern film wasn't *that* long ago.
   
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Could stage it as John being a fresh recruit under Hal's mentorship. So you get some exposition as Hal explains things to John, without spending a lot of time on Earth doing the full origin treatment.

Actually, that sounds even more like Men in Black than Lethal Weapon, LOL.

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TBH, the easy "fix" for GL is to simply start with John Stewart. Or Gay Gardener.

And then, immediately move the story to Red Lanterns so we can have live-action Dex-Starr!

   
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Perhaps having Atrocitus in Injustice 2 will increase his profile enough to have him in a GL movie.

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