Bergdahl pleads guilty

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**NenkotaMoon**

Either way he was fethed and good riddance.

**djones520**

whembly wrote:
Okay... Jen Lawrence gif... that's an exalt no matter what.

However, this is strictly a UCMJ proceeding... which is quite different than regular judicial process.

He had his trial.

Two things I thought was interesting:
1) like Ouze, I'm surprised how this ended due to Obama's and Trump's statements.
2) why the hell didn't he want a jury???

Cause he's pretty universally hated across all of the services.

**jhe90**

djones520 wrote:
whembly wrote:
Okay... Jen Lawrence gif... that's an exalt no matter what.

However, this is strictly a UCMJ proceeding... which is quite different than regular judicial process.

He had his trial.

Two things I thought was interesting:
1) like Ouze, I'm surprised how this ended due to Obama's and Trump's statements.
2) why the hell didn't he want a jury???

Cause he's pretty universally hated across all of the services.

So the question is of they send him to the US Military jail or the regular US jail system.

He going to be in a for a good few years likely..

**NenkotaMoon**

He's boned either way.

**Kap'n Krump**

NenkotaMoon wrote:
He's boned either way.

If Obama (or Hilary) were still in office, I think he'd have a decent shot, as his prisoner release was a big deal for the Obama administration.

But with Trump in office? I'm sure he'll do everything in his power to throw the book at bergdahl just to spite Obama.

I'm sure trump has got people looking into a firing squad - it's legal in Oklahoma according to Wikipedia!

But yeah, bergdahl is ultraboned.

**jhe90**

Kap'n Krump wrote:
NenkotaMoon wrote:
He's boned either way.

If Obama (or Hilary) were still in office, I think he'd have a decent shot, as his prisoner release was a big deal for the Obama administration.

But with Trump in office? I'm sure he'll do everything in his power to throw the book at bergdahl just to spite Obama.

I'm sure trump has got people looking into a firing squad - it's legal in Oklahoma according to Wikipedia!

But yeah, bergdahl is ultraboned.

He might get a deal in 2020/2024 depending.
Before that unlikely.

**d-usa**

Obama released a single military prisoner, if I recall correctly. And if the prison would have acted more professional, that probably wouldn’t have happened either.

**whembly**

d-usa wrote:
Obama released a single military prisoner, if I recall correctly. And if the prison would have acted more professional, that probably wouldn’t have happened either.

Huh?

They released like 5 from gitmo for Bergdahl.

My issue isn't strictly that... as, I believe we shouldn't leave anyone behind. It's the whole spin that came out after his release.

**d-usa**

Didn’t realize we kept a bunch of American military personnel convicted under the military court system at gitmo.

**Ahtman**

I read about this when it happened and decided not to share it as every article there were people who couldn't keep from wagging their political genitals about and I didn't want that to happen here...but here we are anyway.

**daedalus**

Ahtman wrote:
I read about this when it happened and decided not to share it as every article there were people who couldn't keep from wagging their political genitals about and I didn't want that to happen here...but here we are anyway.

I went to google to look for something along the lines of "monocle popping out in surprise" but that doesn't give dakka friendly search results...

**sirlynchmob**

Kap'n Krump wrote:
NenkotaMoon wrote:
He's boned either way.

If Obama (or Hilary) were still in office, I think he'd have a decent shot, as his prisoner release was a big deal for the Obama administration.

But with Trump in office? I'm sure he'll do everything in his power to throw the book at bergdahl just to spite Obama.

I'm sure trump has got people looking into a firing squad - it's legal in Oklahoma according to Wikipedia!

But yeah, bergdahl is ultraboned.

So trump is the judge of the case?

When did coercing judges become legal?

If trump tries any of his usual insanity that should be a easy win for Bergdahl. by win I mean mistrial or some sort of technicality that let's him go free. Bonus points for the judge to hold trump in contempt and have him tossed in jail, preferably with a gag order. Bergdahl should have asked for a jury, trumps nonsense could easily be seen as jury tampering.

**jhe90**

sirlynchmob wrote:
Kap'n Krump wrote:
NenkotaMoon wrote:
He's boned either way.

If Obama (or Hilary) were still in office, I think he'd have a decent shot, as his prisoner release was a big deal for the Obama administration.

But with Trump in office? I'm sure he'll do everything in his power to throw the book at bergdahl just to spite Obama.

I'm sure trump has got people looking into a firing squad - it's legal in Oklahoma according to Wikipedia!

But yeah, bergdahl is ultraboned.

So trump is the judge of the case?

When did coercing judges become legal?

If trump tries any of his usual insanity that should be a easy win for Bergdahl. by win I mean mistrial or some sort of technicality that let's him go free. Bonus points for the judge to hold trump in contempt and have him tossed in jail, preferably with a gag order. Bergdahl should have asked for a jury, trumps nonsense could easily be seen as jury tampering.

Yes. But even if trial collapsed, they might move for retrial sans jury and still jail him after. Even if his charges and jail less. I doubt they let him go.

**Ouze**

Ahtman wrote:
I read about this when it happened and decided not to share it as every article there were people who couldn't keep from wagging their political genitals about and I didn't want that to happen here...but here we are anyway.

Done in the first sentence of the first post, which even by Dakka standards is impressive.

**jhe90**

Ouze wrote:
Ahtman wrote:
I read about this when it happened and decided not to share it as every article there were people who couldn't keep from wagging their political genitals about and I didn't want that to happen here...but here we are anyway.

Done in the first sentence of the first post, which even by Dakka standards is impressive.

We do have standards to uphold after all.

**d-usa**

Relapse wrote:
d-usa wrote:
Every mission is a search and rescue mission if you throw in an "oh yeah, don't forget we are still looking for that dumbass, so if you see anything on this mission that has nothing to do with this at all please make a note of it" at the end of the briefing.

These two were wounded on missions specifically organized to search for Bergdahl.

https://www.stripes.com/news/command-sergeant-major-no-troops-died-searching-for-bergdahl-1.402016

They knew what they signed up for?

**Spetulhu**

I understand what desertion is, and he's looking at up to five years for that.

But "misbehavior in front of the enemy" with possible lifetime? This sounds like something you could charge anyone with for anything - even that guy who turned up to his emergency post in pink underpants (fully loaded with vest, helmet and rifle) when his base was attacked. He's shown the enemy he doesn't use regulation underpants!

**d-usa**

Did we use it for Marines throwing puppies off a cliff and posting it online for the enemy to see? Pissing on dead bodies?

**Ouze**

d-usa wrote:
Did we use it for Marines throwing puppies off a cliff and posting it online for the enemy to see? Pissing on dead bodies?

No for either, although the former was drummed out and the latter did result in some charges and courts martials.

**djones520**

d-usa wrote:
Did we use it for Marines throwing puppies off a cliff and posting it online for the enemy to see? Pissing on dead bodies?

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/899

Any member of the armed forces who before or in the presence of the enemy—
(1) runs away;
(2) shamefully abandons, surrenders, or delivers up any command, unit, place, or military property which it is his duty to defend;
(3) through disobedience, neglect, or intentional misconduct endangers the safety of any such command, unit, place, or military property;
(4) casts away his arms or ammunition;
(5) is guilty of cowardly conduct;
(6) quits his place of duty to plunder or pillage;
(7) causes false alarms in any command, unit, or place under control of the armed forces;
(8) willfully fails to do his utmost to encounter, engage, capture, or destroy any enemy troops, combatants, vessels, aircraft, or any other thing, which it is his duty so to encounter, engage, capture, or destroy; or
(9) does not afford all practicable relief and assistance to any troops, combatants, vessels, or aircraft of the armed forces belonging to the United States or their allies when engaged in battle;
shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct.
(Aug. 10, 1956, ch. 1041, 70A Stat. 69.)

Doesn't quite fit the bill D.

These are the official charges delivered.

CHARGE I: VIOLATION OF THE UCMJ, ARTICLE 85
SPECIFICATION: In that Sergeant Robert (Bowe) Bowdrie Bergdahl, United States Army, did, on or about 30 June 2009, with the intent to shirk important service and avoid hazardous duty, namely: combat operations in Afghanistan; and guard duty at Observation Post Mest, Paktika Province, Afghanistan; and combat patrol duties in Paktika Province, Afghanistan, quit his place of duty, to wit: Observation Post Mest, located in Paktika Province, Afghanistan, and did remain so absent in desertion until on or about 31 May 2014.
CHARGE II: VIOLATION OF THE UCMJ, ARTICLE 99
SPECIFICATION: In that Sergeant Robert (Bowe) Bowdrie Bergdahl, United States Army, did, at or near Observation Post Mest, Paktika Province, Afghanistan, on or about 30 June 2009, before the enemy, endanger the safety of Observation Post Mest and Task Force Yukon, which it was his duty to defend, by intentional misconduct in that he left Observation Post Mest alone; and left without authority; and wrongfully caused search and recovery operations.

**Kap'n Krump**

sirlynchmob wrote:
Kap'n Krump wrote:
NenkotaMoon wrote:
He's boned either way.

If Obama (or Hilary) were still in office, I think he'd have a decent shot, as his prisoner release was a big deal for the Obama administration.

But with Trump in office? I'm sure he'll do everything in his power to throw the book at bergdahl just to spite Obama.

I'm sure trump has got people looking into a firing squad - it's legal in Oklahoma according to Wikipedia!

But yeah, bergdahl is ultraboned.

So trump is the judge of the case?

When did coercing judges become legal?

If trump tries any of his usual insanity that should be a easy win for Bergdahl. by win I mean mistrial or some sort of technicality that let's him go free. Bonus points for the judge to hold trump in contempt and have him tossed in jail, preferably with a gag order. Bergdahl should have asked for a jury, trumps nonsense could easily be seen as jury tampering.

I'm not saying that the T-man is going to be judge, jury, and executioner, but it's probably fair to assume that given his position, he will have some influence on how things turn out.

**djones520**

Kap'n Krump wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:
Kap'n Krump wrote:
NenkotaMoon wrote:
He's boned either way.

If Obama (or Hilary) were still in office, I think he'd have a decent shot, as his prisoner release was a big deal for the Obama administration.

But with Trump in office? I'm sure he'll do everything in his power to throw the book at bergdahl just to spite Obama.

I'm sure trump has got people looking into a firing squad - it's legal in Oklahoma according to Wikipedia!

But yeah, bergdahl is ultraboned.

So trump is the judge of the case?

When did coercing judges become legal?

If trump tries any of his usual insanity that should be a easy win for Bergdahl. by win I mean mistrial or some sort of technicality that let's him go free. Bonus points for the judge to hold trump in contempt and have him tossed in jail, preferably with a gag order. Bergdahl should have asked for a jury, trumps nonsense could easily be seen as jury tampering.

I'm not saying that the T-man is going to be judge, jury, and executioner, but it's probably fair to assume that given his position, he will have some influence on how things turn out.

Which is incredibly illegal in our system, and can get his conviction thrown out in a heartbeat if it's found that Trump did attempt to exert influence.

**Kap'n Krump**

djones520 wrote:

Which is incredibly illegal in our system, and can get his conviction thrown out in a heartbeat IF it's found that Trump did attempt to exert influence .

That's one hell of an 'IF'. I'm not much for conspiracy theories, but I think it's incredibly naïve to think that the president, any president, can't (or won't) pull some strings to make a political example of someone, especially if it A) makes his predecessor look bad and B) Makes him look good to his supporters. And throwing the book at bergdahl is a slam-dunk in both categories for trump.

**d-usa**

The military is probably the one area of government most likely to withstand political posturing, and I would expect Mattis to slap down any attempt by Trump to do so.

**jhe90**

d-usa wrote:
The military is probably the one area of government most likely to withstand political posturing, and I would expect Mattis to slap down any attempt by Trump to do so.

True. Mattis is one of thr most likely to stand up to trump over a problem. He does not seem one to be one whom is easy to force into acting against his principles.

**Ouze**

Weird how the threshold for accusations of undue command influence was way lower around here a few years ago. I wonder what changed.

**djones520**

Ouze wrote:
Weird how the threshold for accusations of undue command influence was way lower around here a few years ago. I wonder what changed.

Not sure what point you're trying to make.

**Tannhauser42**

jhe90 wrote:
d-usa wrote:
The military is probably the one area of government most likely to withstand political posturing, and I would expect Mattis to slap down any attempt by Trump to do so.

True. Mattis is one of thr most likely to stand up to trump over a problem. He does not seem one to be one whom is easy to force into acting against his principles.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see if there are any "so-called judge" tweets or similar things.

**Kap'n Krump**

d-usa wrote:
The military is probably the one area of government most likely to withstand political posturing, and I would expect Mattis to slap down any attempt by Trump to do so.

Perhaps, but correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think berghdal is exactly popular in most military circles. I wouldn't expect much support for him from that direction.

Hell, I don't pretend to understand the nuances of exactly how much power and influence the president can wield, and maybe I've seen too much house of cards. But I'm going to be really, REALLY surprised if bergdahl gets off with a minimum sentence.

**d-usa**

Well, it’s one thing to consider that a military judge or a jury of military peers who are pissed off at the behavior of a fellow soldier might let their emotions be a factor in making a determination involving manners where they have a range of options. It’s another thing to consider that Trump is going to coerce members of the military to treat a soldier differently because he hates anything that Obama has ever touched, and the military giving up their independence in order to appease Trump. Members of the military overwhelmingly supported Trump, but I don’t know that they would let him use the military to settle political scores.