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I can see space wolves just shrugging it off and not really paying much mind to it. SW have been operating distanced from imperial rule since the horus heresy. If Gully tries to force the codex on them, they won't be happy.

As Chaz said, I agree that primaris wolves are in for a shock when they arrive on fenris.

 ChazSexington wrote:


But the fact is that there's not a single confirmed non-Loyalist Legion Successor, and Cawl has gone back to the source - the Legion gene-seed. Thus, all Ultramarine Successors will be given Primaris made from Ultramarine gene-seed, not their own Chapter's gene-seed. They'll be genetically very close, but some of the mutations will be removed. It makes sense, genetically speaking, as you can get rid of the mutations. Sure, Soul Drinkers may get Imperial Fist-derived Primaris, but we know the Soul Drinkers aren't Imperial Fists. This would be the Soul Drinkers will remain, but genetically they won't be derived from the same source.

Maybe because there isnt a single confirmed non-Loyalist Legion Successor. The Silver Skulls, frequently believed to be Iron Warriors, particularly after Imperium Secundus.

Guess they've been confirmed as not being Iron Warriors.

I'm not saying they haven't accepted Primaris. I'm saying the introduction, as a consequence of Guilliman's rule, is likely to cause some problems in some Chapters due to their very different culture. E.g. the stupendously superstitious Mortifactors might not be seen in the best light by their new Mars-trained Ultramarine Primaris brothers, and vice versa.

Or it wont, considering they would be able to inform the replacements of the recorded differences that are known or even would have been encountered by the Primaris during the course of the Crusade.

Guilliman suspects something, as seeing the Lion Sword, previously used to skewer Russ and Curze, and owned by the guy who came up with the plan to render parts of Macragge inhabitable for centuries,suddenly turns with on a mysterious Heresy-era Dark Angel made him betray his word to the Dark Angel and lock him up (after parading him through the streets of Terra). Either way, Azrael knows that Cypher was on Terra with the Fallen in tow and got locket up. I cannot believe the Inner Circle can be anything but suspicious and/or nervous.

They can be nervous all they want, the fact is Guilliman doesnt care enough to challenge the Dark Angels, hell he sent them upgrades. If the Inner Circle wants to be nervous they can, but the fact is they have Primaris in the Inner Circle.

Furthermore, as normal Space Marines can be upgraded to Primaris Marines, which seems most obvious.

A statement presented as fact alot since their introduction, but as of yet, in fluff there is no proof of it. Warhammer Community and the Twitch Team get things wrong. Even if its true, going off your belief the DA would be inheriently suspicious and questioning of the Primaris, why would any of them chose to upgrade?

I'm not saying they're not happy for reinforcements, just that Mars-trained Space Wolves Primars may not see eye to eye on quite a few tactical, organisational, and strategies issues. The Primaris may see the Space Wolves as savages, and the Space Wolves may see the Primaris as Ultramarines in grey. Again, this is something I see as potential problems related to Guilliman's introduction of the Primaris, but obviously GW don't want a single Chapter being skeptical to their introduction.

His introduction of the Primaris is literally, "Here, I made these to supplement your forces, make them work." Other than that, Primaris organization is incredibly similar to the operation of the Legions. All the Wolves need to do is break out Bjorn, who can just point out how things were. Even with out that conflict over the Primaris could be incredibly slim. They dont like them? Ok they can do die and the next batch is trained to be properly Wolfy. But any issue is likely gonna be one sided with the older Dogs, as its mentioned that many of the Primaris that went on to make up the Wolfspear were actively looking forward to being Space Wolves despite what they knew of them.

 ChazSexington wrote:

There is a reason why the Lamenters can't be rebuilt with Primaris - at least not based on Lamenter gene-seed. Primaris are built from original Legion gene-seed; not Successor gene-seed with their peculiarities. The Lamenters are rumoured to have gene-seed engineered to remove the Black Rage and Red Thirst (which ultimately failed), so genetically, they won't be Lamenters, as the gene-seed is taken upstream of the Lamenters' deviant gene-seed (effectively just Blood Angels painted red). No Primaris Marines are made from Successor gene-seed (which has quirks and differences from parental gene-seed), so the Black Dragons bone-blade things will disappear.

Um.... Sorry, the magpies....errr.... Blood Ravens just called, Chaplain Diomedes is now a Primaris. Hail their unknown Legion, you may commence Orbital Bombardment of canon.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:


But the fact is that there's not a single confirmed non-Loyalist Legion Successor, and Cawl has gone back to the source - the Legion gene-seed. Thus, all Ultramarine Successors will be given Primaris made from Ultramarine gene-seed, not their own Chapter's gene-seed. They'll be genetically very close, but some of the mutations will be removed. It makes sense, genetically speaking, as you can get rid of the mutations. Sure, Soul Drinkers may get Imperial Fist-derived Primaris, but we know the Soul Drinkers aren't Imperial Fists. This would be the Soul Drinkers will remain, but genetically they won't be derived from the same source.

Maybe because there isnt a single confirmed non-Loyalist Legion Successor. The Silver Skulls, frequently believed to be Iron Warriors, particularly after Imperium Secundus.

Guess they've been confirmed as not being Iron Warriors.

I'm not saying they haven't accepted Primaris. I'm saying the introduction, as a consequence of Guilliman's rule, is likely to cause some problems in some Chapters due to their very different culture. E.g. the stupendously superstitious Mortifactors might not be seen in the best light by their new Mars-trained Ultramarine Primaris brothers, and vice versa.

Or it wont, considering they would be able to inform the replacements of the recorded differences that are known or even would have been encountered by the Primaris during the course of the Crusade.

Guilliman suspects something, as seeing the Lion Sword, previously used to skewer Russ and Curze, and owned by the guy who came up with the plan to render parts of Macragge inhabitable for centuries,suddenly turns with on a mysterious Heresy-era Dark Angel made him betray his word to the Dark Angel and lock him up (after parading him through the streets of Terra). Either way, Azrael knows that Cypher was on Terra with the Fallen in tow and got locket up. I cannot believe the Inner Circle can be anything but suspicious and/or nervous.

They can be nervous all they want, the fact is Guilliman doesnt care enough to challenge the Dark Angels, hell he sent them upgrades. If the Inner Circle wants to be nervous they can, but the fact is they have Primaris in the Inner Circle.

Furthermore, as normal Space Marines can be upgraded to Primaris Marines, which seems most obvious.

A statement presented as fact alot since their introduction, but as of yet, in fluff there is no proof of it. Warhammer Community and the Twitch Team get things wrong. Even if its true, going off your belief the DA would be inheriently suspicious and questioning of the Primaris, why would any of them chose to upgrade?

I'm not saying they're not happy for reinforcements, just that Mars-trained Space Wolves Primars may not see eye to eye on quite a few tactical, organisational, and strategies issues. The Primaris may see the Space Wolves as savages, and the Space Wolves may see the Primaris as Ultramarines in grey. Again, this is something I see as potential problems related to Guilliman's introduction of the Primaris, but obviously GW don't want a single Chapter being skeptical to their introduction.

His introduction of the Primaris is literally, "Here, I made these to supplement your forces, make them work." Other than that, Primaris organization is incredibly similar to the operation of the Legions. All the Wolves need to do is break out Bjorn, who can just point out how things were. Even with out that conflict over the Primaris could be incredibly slim. They dont like them? Ok they can do die and the next batch is trained to be properly Wolfy. But any issue is likely gonna be one sided with the older Dogs, as its mentioned that many of the Primaris that went on to make up the Wolfspear were actively looking forward to being Space Wolves despite what they knew of them.

For all their faults the space wolves are legendary, they are famous as as first founding and have time and again been defenders of imperial citizens.

They earned alot of respect.
Also bjorn yeah, he knows how stuff gets done and his position as the ainciant wolf. Even Logan Grimmer bows to Bjorn council as his reputation is almost as legendary as the chapters.

So integrating basic ly legionnaires is easy as a fenris elfk steak and ale.

They would have no issue integrating them.
Bjorn says they do. Grimor. It's happens.

And great companies they choose marines so if one lord does not like primias, then likely their structure let's them not have them. Their great companies are quite independent.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:


But the fact is that there's not a single confirmed non-Loyalist Legion Successor, and Cawl has gone back to the source - the Legion gene-seed. Thus, all Ultramarine Successors will be given Primaris made from Ultramarine gene-seed, not their own Chapter's gene-seed. They'll be genetically very close, but some of the mutations will be removed. It makes sense, genetically speaking, as you can get rid of the mutations. Sure, Soul Drinkers may get Imperial Fist-derived Primaris, but we know the Soul Drinkers aren't Imperial Fists. This would be the Soul Drinkers will remain, but genetically they won't be derived from the same source.

Maybe because there isnt a single confirmed non-Loyalist Legion Successor. The Silver Skulls, frequently believed to be Iron Warriors, particularly after Imperium Secundus.

Guess they've been confirmed as not being Iron Warriors.

I'm not saying they haven't accepted Primaris. I'm saying the introduction, as a consequence of Guilliman's rule, is likely to cause some problems in some Chapters due to their very different culture. E.g. the stupendously superstitious Mortifactors might not be seen in the best light by their new Mars-trained Ultramarine Primaris brothers, and vice versa.

Or it wont, considering they would be able to inform the replacements of the recorded differences that are known or even would have been encountered by the Primaris during the course of the Crusade.

Guilliman suspects something, as seeing the Lion Sword, previously used to skewer Russ and Curze, and owned by the guy who came up with the plan to render parts of Macragge inhabitable for centuries,suddenly turns with on a mysterious Heresy-era Dark Angel made him betray his word to the Dark Angel and lock him up (after parading him through the streets of Terra). Either way, Azrael knows that Cypher was on Terra with the Fallen in tow and got locket up. I cannot believe the Inner Circle can be anything but suspicious and/or nervous.

They can be nervous all they want, the fact is Guilliman doesnt care enough to challenge the Dark Angels, hell he sent them upgrades. If the Inner Circle wants to be nervous they can, but the fact is they have Primaris in the Inner Circle.

Furthermore, as normal Space Marines can be upgraded to Primaris Marines, which seems most obvious.

A statement presented as fact alot since their introduction, but as of yet, in fluff there is no proof of it. Warhammer Community and the Twitch Team get things wrong. Even if its true, going off your belief the DA would be inheriently suspicious and questioning of the Primaris, why would any of them chose to upgrade?

I'm not saying they're not happy for reinforcements, just that Mars-trained Space Wolves Primars may not see eye to eye on quite a few tactical, organisational, and strategies issues. The Primaris may see the Space Wolves as savages, and the Space Wolves may see the Primaris as Ultramarines in grey. Again, this is something I see as potential problems related to Guilliman's introduction of the Primaris, but obviously GW don't want a single Chapter being skeptical to their introduction.

His introduction of the Primaris is literally, "Here, I made these to supplement your forces, make them work." Other than that, Primaris organization is incredibly similar to the operation of the Legions. All the Wolves need to do is break out Bjorn, who can just point out how things were. Even with out that conflict over the Primaris could be incredibly slim. They dont like them? Ok they can do die and the next batch is trained to be properly Wolfy. But any issue is likely gonna be one sided with the older Dogs, as its mentioned that many of the Primaris that went on to make up the Wolfspear were actively looking forward to being Space Wolves despite what they knew of them.

Right, then we know the Silver Skulls are not Iron Warrior Successors of Barabas Dantioch, unless Cawl disobeyed the Lord Commander of the Imperium's direct, explicit command.

Being informed of the differences, especially when some Chapters' beliefs are borderline Heretical, will not help. Try telling the Primaris that the Black Dragons utilise their bone mutations as weapons. That the Mortifactors believe in customs totally at odds with the Imperial creed. I'm not saying there's going to be rebellion, just some cases may cause friction.

Ref. DAs - then we agree. The Dark Angels are going to be nervous about the whole thing, which will probably manifest itself in some way, though Guilliman won't lock up Azrael. I don't think the DAs would have problems upgrading at all - I think they would view Guilliman's reinforcements with some skepticism, as is wont to be happen. I mean, these guys attacked the Black Templars for knowing about the Fallen and Guilliman paraded them. They can't execute Guilliman (and they wouldn't), but I cannot imagine they are happy about their dirty secret being paraded aroundTerra.

Ref. Space Wolves, that relies on Bjorn actually making them work flawlessly from the get-go. Remember that Bjorn and the Space Wolves fight very differently from the rest - it's specifically mentioned in the FW books. They're not Codex-adherent, and I can bet anything the Primaris, whom are commissioned by Guilliman, are Codex-adherent. The Wolf Spear will thus definitely be Codex-adherent, as the Primaris won't know anything else (unless they later train with the Space Wolves and adopt their organisation). The Space Wolves' Primaris will thus have to be trained in a fashion very different from their previous training.

Friction between Chapters happen all the time - Salamanders were proper pissy about the Marines Malevolent when they used a refugee camp as Ork-bait before shelling the entire valley. The Dark Angels and Space Wolves don't always get along. The Mortifactors abandoned the Lamenters on the battlefield. The Ultramarines were affronted by the Lamenters flinging accolades back at them. There is no reason why Primaris can't cause friction, which would mostly be caused by Codex-adherent Marines being introduced to Chapters that aren't Codex-adherent.

Though at this point I think I'm just repeating myself, so I'll bow out here.

 ChazSexington wrote:
I think the Black Rage is caused by the psychic (magic) imprint of Sanguinius' death on all his descendants, though I could be wrong. Thus, it's kinda linked to gene-seed, but not due to any flaw in the gene-seed.

Blood angels showed signs of that pre-siege of terra though. Not to the scale yet but enough they had to secretly put an end to those who had gone too far in madness.

tneva82 wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:
I think the Black Rage is caused by the psychic (magic) imprint of Sanguinius' death on all his descendants, though I could be wrong. Thus, it's kinda linked to gene-seed, but not due to any flaw in the gene-seed.

Blood angels showed signs of that pre-siege of terra though. Not to the scale yet but enough they had to secretly put an end to those who had gone too far in madness.

That's the Red Thirst, not Black Rage.

 Melissia wrote:
You also can't discount 10,000 years of cultural inertia, independence, and pride. Marines have rebelled for less, even if GW itself doesn't necessarily remember that.

This is true, but it should be remembered that there's far fewer generations of Space Marines between now and 30K then there are regular humans. So the time period doesn't quite mean the same thing. For most of the Imperium, 30K is our equivalent of King Ur-Nammu coming back, for the Marines, it's more Henry VIII. They know more about him, Marines from less generations ago knew him, and they have more of a cultural familiarity.

 ChazSexington wrote:


Right, then we know the Silver Skulls are not Iron Warrior Successors of Barabas Dantioch, unless Cawl disobeyed the Lord Commander of the Imperium's direct, explicit command.

Being informed of the differences, especially when some Chapters' beliefs are borderline Heretical, will not help. Try telling the Primaris that the Black Dragons utilise their bone mutations as weapons. That the Mortifactors believe in customs totally at odds with the Imperial creed. I'm not saying there's going to be rebellion, just some cases may cause friction.

Remember, Guilliman already suspects that Cawl has disobeyed his Command. On that though its strange that had the Silver Skulls, and several others, actually have been from Traitor stock (im not sure any are outright confirmed to be Traitor) that he would with hold the Geneseed from them. He witnessed first had these Astartes disown and actively fight against their Primarchs. Though for Chapters like the Black Dragons and Mortifactors, their customs and mutations are hardly unknown to the Imperium and with Guilliman being how he is, one could think he'd have something set up for integrating them.

Ref. DAs - then we agree. The Dark Angels are going to be nervous about the whole thing, which will probably manifest itself in some way, though Guilliman won't lock up Azrael. I don't think the DAs would have problems upgrading at all - I think they would view Guilliman's reinforcements with some skepticism, as is wont to be happen. I mean, these guys attacked the Black Templars for knowing about the Fallen and Guilliman paraded them. They can't execute Guilliman (and they wouldn't), but I cannot imagine they are happy about their dirty secret being paraded aroundTerra.

I reckon we do agree. I wonder, how ever if rather than remaining upset and broody, if this action could eventually lead to the Dark Angels realizing that its not as condemning as they thought. After all with new fluff almost every Legion had its traitors. Much more damning is the lengths they went to keep it secret.

Ref. Space Wolves, that relies on Bjorn actually making them work flawlessly from the get-go. Remember that Bjorn and the Space Wolves fight very differently from the rest - it's specifically mentioned in the FW books. They're not Codex-adherent, and I can bet anything the Primaris, whom are commissioned by Guilliman, are Codex-adherent. The Wolf Spear will thus definitely be Codex-adherent, as the Primaris won't know anything else (unless they later train with the Space Wolves and adopt their organisation). The Space Wolves' Primaris will thus have to be trained in a fashion very different from their previous training.

Different, but also the same, they had their specialist units, but they also fielded the same sort of squads as everyone else. As for the Wolfspear, I would have to disagree. They wont be Codex-adherent, or at least not as much as you might think. If that were the case they'd have been mentioned in the Codex Space Marines, but they are not. They were mentioned in Dark Imperium.

Friction between Chapters happen all the time - Salamanders were proper pissy about the Marines Malevolent when they used a refugee camp as Ork-bait before shelling the entire valley. The Dark Angels and Space Wolves don't always get along. The Mortifactors abandoned the Lamenters on the battlefield. The Ultramarines were affronted by the Lamenters flinging accolades back at them. There is no reason why Primaris can't cause friction, which would mostly be caused by Codex-adherent Marines being introduced to Chapters that aren't Codex-adherent.

Though at this point I think I'm just repeating myself, so I'll bow out here.

You're repeating yourself because you seem to be hung up on this notion that the Primaris are all Codex trained. Which they aren't, they don't fit any true Codex roll and considering we have no mention of Divergent Chapter's Primaris (well there is one), one can reasonably assume that they were informed how things are.

Now onto the one divergent chapter that is mentioned in the codex, The Black Templar. They vary greatly from the operation of the Codex, yet they still have Primaris and there are no mentions yet of it causing some great friction between the old Templar and the new.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

He's not moving to make everyone the same, or replacing anyone. He's not hording an army for himself. The only person you could accuse of that is Cawl, who was building Guilliman's project in secret even during Guilliman's time as a big blue popsicle. Primaris was always as Guilliman's addition and improvement for the entire Adeptus Astartes - not for himself. He's just giving everyone the same upgrades to their forces in the form of the Primaris, which old-marines can become. And as GW have proven, even Chapters like the Space Wolves and Dark Angels have taken the Primaris into their forces. Your own forces can be the exceptions, and that's fine, but it's wrong to say that, as a whole, the SW and DA reject the Primaris.

You say that but he's creating more powerful marines and then training them away from their parent chapters. Who knows what they're being indoctrinated with. If their chapter comes into conflict with Guilliman or Mars will the primaris support their chapter or lead a coup from the inside?

ChazSexington wrote:[...]
Right, then we know the Silver Skulls are not Iron Warrior Successors of Barabas Dantioch, unless Cawl disobeyed the Lord Commander of the Imperium's direct, explicit command.[...]

I subscribe to the theory that the whole idea was that Guilliman wanted to shelter Barabas Dantioch and the other loyal Iron Warriors, and what better way than by hiding them in an Ultramarine successor chapter that is 'totally' genetically legit, even though there were no records of it. As a nod to his friend Dantioch, Guilliman allowed them to retain their remnants of their old identity which became the chapter colours and the icon based off of Dantiochs mask, which of course also resembles the Iron Warriors icon.
Later on Ultramarine chaplains did genetic tests on the Silver Skulls and ruled that they were certainly Ultramarines. And thus the Imperial records were updated and that's why they're listed under Ultramarines today.

Well, let me ask this to all of you, if, and we're again talking Blood Ravens, let me posit this: the Blood Ravens primarch is unknown (supposedly). If turning existing Marines into Primaris requires the gene seed of their Legion, then this should be impossible, and yet we have Diomedes become a Primaris.

So... I'd say that the cat is out of the Space Hulk on the Thousand Sons connection there.

You can add the Sons of the Phoenix to the "almost certainly traitor geneseed" list. Colors match the purple and gold pre-heresy colors, they have a penchant for glory-seeking and spectacle, and they're called the Sons of the Phoenix it's like Cawl wasn't even trying to pretend.

 BaronIveagh wrote:
Well, let me ask this to all of you, if, and we're again talking Blood Ravens, let me posit this: the Blood Ravens primarch is unknown (supposedly). If turning existing Marines into Primaris requires the gene seed of their Legion, then this should be impossible, and yet we have Diomedes become a Primaris.

So... I'd say that the cat is out of the Space Hulk on the Thousand Sons connection there.

Has it been said whats required to turn Space Marines into Primaris?

I just assumed Cawl "gifted" the Blood Ravens the upgrade technology. That's my excuse for my Blood Raven Primaris anyway.

 argonak wrote:


Has it been said whats required to turn Space Marines into Primaris?

I just assumed Cawl "gifted" the Blood Ravens the upgrade technology. That's my excuse for my Blood Raven Primaris anyway.

Supposedly the geneseed of their original founding legion is used to create Primaris (NVM how soaked in BS this is). In the event of 'new' primaris marines this is a non-issue, as your idea about them being 'gifted' to the Magpies would hold as much water as any of their other acquisitions. The issue is they took an existing character and did the conversion process. So... how the hell did that work?

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 argonak wrote:


Has it been said whats required to turn Space Marines into Primaris?

I just assumed Cawl "gifted" the Blood Ravens the upgrade technology. That's my excuse for my Blood Raven Primaris anyway.

Supposedly the geneseed of their original founding legion is used to create Primaris (NVM how soaked in BS this is). In the event of 'new' primaris marines this is a non-issue, as your idea about them being 'gifted' to the Magpies would hold as much water as any of their other acquisitions. The issue is they took an existing character and did the conversion process. So... how the hell did that work?

Its just a DLC skin and not an actual story element?

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 argonak wrote:


Has it been said whats required to turn Space Marines into Primaris?

I just assumed Cawl "gifted" the Blood Ravens the upgrade technology. That's my excuse for my Blood Raven Primaris anyway.

Supposedly the geneseed of their original founding legion is used to create Primaris (NVM how soaked in BS this is). In the event of 'new' primaris marines this is a non-issue, as your idea about them being 'gifted' to the Magpies would hold as much water as any of their other acquisitions. The issue is they took an existing character and did the conversion process. So... how the hell did that work?

Its just a DLC skin and not an actual story element?

Yeah I'd not take a DLC skin in DOW3 as proof of anything.

as for chapters like the Blood ravens, keep in mind Gulliman ALSO taught chapters how to MAKE their OWN Primaris Marines,

Being taugh something and being able to do something aren't the same thing.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Being taugh something and being able to do something aren't the same thing.

I think unless given strong evidance to the contrary we should assume these lessons took. As it's pretty clear this was GW's work around to allow chapters with "mysterious orgins" to have Primaris Marines.

Getting back to the original question though, codex Space Marines provides us with SOME answers, Chapters with other primarchs as their progenator seem to be reacling petty poisitively to Gulliman. he may not be THEIR Primarch, but he's A Primarch and thats a pretty big deal. we see in the HH books numerous stories of space marines meeting primarchs whom are not their own and STILL "fan boying" over them.

Gulliman, like all Primarchs is a VERY charismatic individual. codex SMs shows how the crimson fists interact with him,. they show him managaging to bring the Black templars onside, not by ordering it, but by KNOWING them etc.

Another thing, this idea that thgere's this big anti-gulliman sentiment from non UM sucessors? thats more a fanon meme that is incorrect. the guys HIGHLY respected by all space marines, just like every other loyalist primarch

I hear rumor the Carcharodons got Primaris through their super-secret contacts in the Imperium. Girlyman can go suck a dick.

 EmpNortonII wrote:
I hear rumor the Carcharodons got Primaris through their super-secret contacts in the Imperium. Girlyman can go suck a dick.

You got any proof of that, or is that just fanon?

As we've seen, the vast majority of Chapters embraced Guilliman's new reforms: therefore, it would stand to reason that the default is to assume that a Chapter would obey him.

BrianDavion is right: the idea that Guilliman is disliked or unpopular simply doesn't line up with the lore we've been shown. It's an unfunny meme at best, or the projections of players salty because of the 5th Edition codex, or that THEIR favourite Primarch didn't come back, at worst.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:
I hear rumor the Carcharodons got Primaris through their super-secret contacts in the Imperium. Girlyman can go suck a dick.

You got any proof of that, or is that just fanon?

As we've seen, the vast majority of Chapters embraced Guilliman's new reforms: therefore, it would stand to reason that the default is to assume that a Chapter would obey him.

BrianDavion is right: the idea that Guilliman is disliked or unpopular simply doesn't line up with the lore we've been shown. It's an unfunny meme at best, or the projections of players salty because of the 5th Edition codex, or that THEIR favourite Primarch didn't come back, at worst.

It's actually from the dude writing the Carcharodons books, Robbie MacNiven. Carcharodons scored the tech to gene-forge Primaris marines through currently-mysterious contacts that are not Cawl.

Girlyman can suck a dick is just my hate for the second-douchiest Primarch.

Whose the first douchiest?

pm713 wrote:
Whose the first douchiest?

Johnson

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Whose the first douchiest?

Johnson

No. Rogal Dorne is the douchiest. Hell, the Iron Warriors and Night Lords both might have sided with the Emperor if Dorne's douchbaggery hadn't driven them away from the Imperium. Johnson may be a piece of crap, but he didn't actively drive any Legions into Lorgar's rebellion.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Whose the first douchiest?

Johnson

No. Rogal Dorne is the douchiest. Hell, the Iron Warriors and Night Lords both might have sided with the Emperor if Dorne's douchbaggery hadn't driven them away from the Imperium. Johnson may be a piece of crap, but he didn't actively drive any Legions into Lorgar's rebellion.

bs.

What EXACTLY did Dorn do to drive the iron warriors away from the imperium ?

Honestly claiming that he was as good a siegemaster as Perturabo ?

I think the only Primarch to drive anyone to Chaos was Roboute.

godking wrote:


What EXACTLY did Dorn do to drive the iron warriors away from the imperium

Honestly claiming that he was as good a siegemaster as Perturabo ?

He kept stealing Perturabo's credit, apparently. Got all the nice shiny medals and statues and public acclamation after the Iron Warriors did most of the dying. The Death Guard had a similar complaint.

EmpNortonII wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Whose the first douchiest?

Johnson

No. Rogal Dorne is the douchiest. Hell, the Iron Warriors and Night Lords both might have sided with the Emperor if Dorne's douchbaggery hadn't driven them away from the Imperium. Johnson may be a piece of crap, but he didn't actively drive any Legions into Lorgar's rebellion.

Fulgrim was the one that betrayed Curze's council to Dorn. Dorn lacking people skills tried to talk to him in his normal manner. Curze had a vision and flipped, Dorn arrested him. Hardly Dorn's (or Curze's) fault he was maneuvered by Fulgrim.

Perty fell because he couldnt be the best, and he hated that Dorn answered honestly.

Ketara wrote:


He kept stealing Perturabo's credit, apparently. Got all the nice shiny medals and statues and public acclamation after the Iron Warriors did most of the dying. The Death Guard had a similar complaint.

Except that wasn't Dorn's doing, he wasn't going around and forcing the Remembrancers to give him all the credit, they did that of their own accord.

Plus literally everyone was given the credit over the Iron Warriors and the Death Guard, they weren't the 'glamorous' and 'noble' Legions bringing the light of the Emperor. Perty had jealousy issues and an over inflated sense of self worth. Dorn was doing his job and cared little for the credit.

That probably makes it worse. One thing worse than stealing credit is doing it without trying.