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Made in au
Tunneling Trygon






If the expected returns are measured in enjoyment, then yeah, gaming can be seen as an investment. You might not enjoy everything you do today by some non-descript point in the future, but that doesn't mean any games you no longer enjoy were wastes of money because you got exactly what you wanted out of them while it lasted.

Star Wars Destiny is no more a "bad" investment due to waning popularity than Space Marines are in light of the rise of the Primaris and the conspiracy that they'll become the new norm. Even if the worse comes to pass, you had fun.

(This is all based on the assumption that money isn't a huge issue, and the cost won't bite you in the backside later on)
   
Made in ie
Calculating Commissar




Frostgrave

 oni wrote:
Unless you're buying up vintage MtG cards it'll all be worthless eventually.


GW is kind of unique in that regard; with the rate of price increases over time, you'll almost always get your money back if you hold onto it for long enough
I dumped almost all of my GW at under 50% current RRP, which I'm sure was more than I paid for the stuff ~15 years ago.

No-one else has the same longevity or pricing system, so you're likely to lose out pretty badly. But when you can get mini's for $1 each it's not worth worrying about.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Even there, if you were hanging on to Bonesingers to flog them on ebay for a small fortune, you're out of luck now.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut






Toronto

I mean if I see a good deal on Kijiji Facebook or eBay and I think it will be worth it, I pick it up, the resell marked up a hundred bucks. Normally people will ask a hundred lower and I say sure if you come to me for pickup. That way I get my money back as well as get a chance to see some cool minis.

Adepta Sororitas: 3,800 Points
Adeptus Custodes: 8,100 Points
Adeptus Mechanicus: 8,400 Points
Alpha Legion: 4,400 Points
Astra Militarum: 7,500 Points
Dark Angels: 16,800 Points
Imperial Knights: 12,500 Points
Legio Titanicus: 5,500 Points
Slaaneshi Daemons: 3,800 Points
 
   
Made in us
Brigadier General






Chicago

I never look at gaming as an "investment" that will earn me money. However, I try to be thrifty with my $.

-I don't play non-mini collectible games (LCG's, Dice games, etc)
-I purchase alot of used figures. Used to do so to resell for other purchases thought I don't do that much anymore
-For new games I make sure that I like the figures enough to use in other games. As examples, Imperial Assault minis will live on long after FFG discontinues the game and my my Ruenewars Daqan army was collected with the intention of doubling as a KoW army.

The end result is that if I sold my entire collection I'd probably come out a bit ahead of what I spent on everything, possibly even consdiering the cost of paint and other consumeables. Not that I have any intention to do so but that's not bad for a hobby. Very few hobbies let you break even.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/31 22:24:43


Chicago Skirmish Wargames club. Join us for some friendly, casual gaming in the Windy City.
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My Project Log, mostly revolving around custom "Toybashed" terrain.
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Made in us
Been Around the Block




New York

Money spent on gaming is purely for entertainment purpose.

Now if I see a model that I fancy & see a possible use for it for an unrelated purpose? I might consider that sort of an investment. But I don't ever expect to ever recover any $$ from this hobby.

I have some KAWS toys that are worth more than I paid for them, but never did I buy them for that purpose. I'd have to be in serious need for me to peddle them now.

   
Made in au
Unstoppable Bloodthirster of Khorne





Melbourne .au

The problem is using the word "investment" since it can mean several things.

If you mean "investment" in terms of future profitability - looking to make money, save up for property or speculate on antiques or something. Don't buy games.

If you mean "investment" in terms of what you'll get he most fun out of for your bucks, then it's entirely dependant on what you enjoy. But treat is as money that's gone - entertainment budget - just like it would be from a movie or a night out.

Going into games with an eye on your best "exit strategy" etc is probably the wrong way to choose what game you'd like to get into, as opposed to whatever appeals more and is the most fun.

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Golden Throne

No toy game is an investment. Sorrry.
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





It's a hobby, I've never expected to recoup any of money spent

Most of this expectation is due to Magic, but the majority of the most expensive cards come from numerical scarcity as the print runs of the early sets were utterly tiny by current standards.

"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in us
Aspirant Tech-Adept




UK

I've just got out of video game collecting as it's got out of hand with pricing. While I never collected to make money, I'm pretty sure I could get 3-4 times the price I paid for my video game collection, so it can happen. The only realistic way it could happen with boardgaming however is if supply was drastically cut, or stopped altogether but the audience remained.

Buying these toys as an investment is probably not going to net you a real gain. However if you look at it for cost to time spent enjoying the miniatures it's probably better than spending it down the pub.

I set aside an amount each month that I spend on new miniatures. It's money I can afford to live without, and I expect no financial return on it.

Imperial Soup
2200pts/1750 painted
2800pts/1200 painted
2200pts/650 painted
217pts/151 painted 
   
Made in ca
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






The sad part is there's a lot of pepple who do think they can profit from this and end up buying up stocks of things only to have it sit in their basements for decades on end, and it creates a supply issue for people who actually want to play with them. It also comes to bite them in the butt real good when they horribly miscalculate and the demand for the items aren't as good as they thought.

Like one guy around here went around to all the shops just to buy up all of the Captain Centos models when it came out. He got about 100 of them. As of this posting, he's still trying to hawk them at inflated prices and as far as I know, he hasn't moved any. There was also another guy who got a box of the Diazmonettes and is trying to sell them for 160 bucks (the box isn't even NIB, he admits it's opened and partially assembled). He's been at it for about 3 years now.

Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!


Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.


When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






New Orleans, LA

Herzlos wrote:
beowulfhunter wrote:
Curious how you approach gaming and money?


Do I get enough enjoyment to be worth the money? Aye. Spend it.
Is that to good a deal to pass up? Aye. Spend it.

I clear stuff out occasionally to make space, but I've never made any real decision on a game based on how much I'll get back later. That doesn't sound like fun and would cut off most of my gaming hoarde :(


What this man (or chick? dunno) said.

If it is a game my wife and I will play and enjoy, buy it.

If I find out later it's lame, I sell it on ebay for the going rate. If I recoup 1/4 to 1/2, so be it.

Sold my Starfarers of Catan with the 5-6 player expansion on ebay and it was enough to buy 1/2 of the case of wine we picked up on our winery weekend spectacular last week.

DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
 
   
Made in us
Brigadier General






Chicago

 kronk wrote:
Sold my Starfarers of Catan with the 5-6 player expansion on ebay and it was enough to buy 1/2 of the case of wine we picked up on our winery weekend spectacular last week.


Selling hobby stuff to fund the essentials.
Well played sir.

Chicago Skirmish Wargames club. Join us for some friendly, casual gaming in the Windy City.
http://chicagoskirmishwargames.com/blog/


My Project Log, mostly revolving around custom "Toybashed" terrain.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/651712.page

Visit the Chicago Valley Railroad!
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Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Western Kentucky

Money wise, the hobby is a money pit for the most part. I have some an old Guard models that definitely will go up in value, as well as starship trooper models which will only go up. 90% of my stuff though will go down over time in value.

However, as long as I build and paint the models, I get an enjoyment out of them. If I get to play games with them even better. In that way, most of my stuff I feel is well spent. This is why I mainly avoid card games, if I don't play the game or don't get many in then I'm not really getting anything out of it. On the other hand I can paint a model and never touch it again but still get at least some "use" out of it. I'm not an amazing painter but I still feel good about it.

In order to make money by flipping hobby stuff you have to have a brutally efficient mentality and really hunt the deals, something I don't particularly care to do. I hunt for deals obviously but I never consider how much I could sell said models for down the road, because anything I'd be willing to part with I'm probably parting with at a loss. The models that I would make a profit on are models that are almost irreplaceable and worth far more sentimentally than they are monetarily.

For example, I picked up a whole platoon (and I mean a full platoon) of metal Cadians for around a $100 once, if I really wanted to part with them I could probably make double that if I was patient. I don't want to though because they're cool models and I love having them in my army.

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

Gaming is primarily an entertainment expense. The money I spend, I hope to get back as entertainment experiences.

If I subsequently recover some money from via sales of goods or services, that's great, too.

Most recently, I've managed to fund my KS habit via KS sales, along with running a small net surplus from general gaming sales by slimming down the collection over the past few years. Right now, it's less about the money than having/making time to play. To that end, I had limited purchases to a few gaming lines or systems, and that was probably a good choice. Looking back, I kinda wish I'd have been even more judicious in my purchasing.

But as an investment? For future profit? Nah, not really.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






If this question was asked between 2000 and 2004 I would have given a maybe... as if this would be a viable investment.

However this is 2017. Games Workshop destroyed their casual player base and what is left is a smaller Harder core of a player that will by stupid high product.

There is something that should be note. You have "PLASTIC"
toys soldiers or you have METAL miniatures which still have Value outside this very small niche market.

This game is a consumable item of over priced "PLASTIC" toy soldiers locked into a very niche game and is largely ignored by mainstream gamers. You can get a better return rate on used video game, especially classics now than trying to sell your older unusable ones.

Yes you can argue that GW is doing better. I can argue back that "THEY" are doing better because of the licensing deals that I have stated years past that they needed to do in order to stay relevant.

The answer is absolutely not. This is not an investment. Owning Stock in YUMM brands is an investment. Owning certain types of MtG cards are an investment because Hasbro has made sure that their marketing/R&D/PR departments carefully nurture their casual player base. THAT is a difference of a multi BILLION dollar corporation and a multi million one.

This is a money sink to those hardcore players in a tiny niche of the overall gaming market... If the game gives you something in return that is not monetarily involved, more power to you.
I would rather put my money down on certain things on tangible things and though I have lost of disposable income I will not spend one more dime on this game, because Games Workshop does not care about the casual player base.

They should know better.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/09 09:58:21


Adam's Motto: Paint, Create, Play, but above all, have fun. -and for something silly below-

"We are the Ultramodrines, And We Shall Fear No Trolls. bear this USR with pride".

Also, how does one apply to be a member of the Ultramodrines? Are harsh trials involved, ones that would test my faith as a wargamer and resolve as a geek?

You must recite every rule of Dakka Dakka. BACKWARDS.
 
   
Made in ie
Calculating Commissar




Frostgrave

I wonder what the best gaming buys are at the moment, from an investment point of view. Old metal stuff that's long OOP, or limited run current stuff? What's going to have performed best in 10/20/30 years?

I'd have thought the old metal stuff, but eventually all of those old enough to have nostalgia for 80's GW will give up / die off.

Best short term bang for buck seems to be buying and painting historic units.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/09 15:32:36


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

Herzlos wrote:
I wonder what the best gaming buys are at the moment, from an investment point of view. Old metal stuff that's long OOP, or limited run current stuff? What's going to have performed best in 10/20/30 years?


Over 10-20-30 years? Magic Cards, if you bought before 1995.

   
Made in ca
Fireknife Shas'el






Racerguy180 wrote:

btw, at least with guns you can defend yourself from a break in. throwing my Hellblasters at the crook wouldn't turn out as well.


Well now, if you've been collecting long enough, you get some pretty heavy pewter models. Most of those could kill at range.

   
Made in us
Posts with Authority






 Easy E wrote:
Once you buy a game, if you have what you need to play it then it is never dead and can be played as much as you want to play it.

Cards and models do not simply disappear when the company that made the game "dies".

I run a yearly Mordheim campaign, and the occasional Necromunda or GorkaMorka game - games that have been gone for a decade or more, that still get played on a regular or semi-regular basis.

I will be getting the new Necromunda, and fully expect to be playing with those toys for at least another decade.

What people get out of a game is what they get out of playing it - this is not a 'collector's market' for most people - it is an enjoyable way to spend time with friends, family, and toy soldiers.

The Auld Grump

Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.

The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
 
   
Made in au
Unstoppable Bloodthirster of Khorne





Melbourne .au

Herzlos wrote:
I wonder what the best gaming buys are at the moment, from an investment point of view. Old metal stuff that's long OOP, or limited run current stuff? What's going to have performed best in 10/20/30 years?

I'd have thought the old metal stuff, but eventually all of those old enough to have nostalgia for 80's GW will give up / die off.

Best short term bang for buck seems to be buying and painting historic units.



Don't buy gaming stuff - or comics - or toys - as an investment.
Buy stocks, or property, or look into flipping actual antiques.

I've got lots of miniatures that I'm sure are worth a lot more than I paid for them. I've been collecting since the late 80's. Does the idea of trying to flip them hold a candle to a couple of week's at my job?

   
Made in us
Brigadier General






Chicago

I'd like to ammend my earlier statement that it is possible to make money with wargaming, but not by buying new product and hoping it will increase in value.

Almost the only way to make money gaming is to buy used lots, and then move them to a more lucrative venue (i.e. buy at a swap meet and sell on ebay) and/or break them apart, often requiring some time spent stripping paint, etc. Looking back, if I'd been more disciplined in what I purchased for myself, I could have looked back at quite a few years of my gaming life and have easily come out ahead for the year. There may even have been years where I broke dead even.

Of course none of this would have come (came) close to a significant enough profit to be called a business.

If you're treating your hobby as a hobby and not putting in a ton of time, about the best you can hope for is to buy used, sell high and maybe your hobby will pay for itself.

 Adam LongWalker wrote:
If this question was asked between 2000 and 2004 I would have given a maybe... as if this would be a viable investment.

However this is 2017. Games Workshop destroyed their casual player base and what is left is a smaller Harder core of a player that will by stupid high product.

There is something that should be note. You have "PLASTIC"
toys soldiers or you have METAL miniatures which still have Value outside this very small niche market.

This game is a consumable item of over priced "PLASTIC" toy soldiers locked into a very niche game and is largely ignored by mainstream gamers. You can get a better return rate on used video game, especially classics now than trying to sell your older unusable ones.

Yes you can argue that GW is doing better. I can argue back that "THEY" are doing better because of the licensing deals that I have stated years past that they needed to do in order to stay relevant.

The answer is absolutely not. This is not an investment. Owning Stock in YUMM brands is an investment. Owning certain types of MtG cards are an investment because Hasbro has made sure that their marketing/R&D/PR departments carefully nurture their casual player base. THAT is a difference of a multi BILLION dollar corporation and a multi million one.

This is a money sink to those hardcore players in a tiny niche of the overall gaming market... If the game gives you something in return that is not monetarily involved, more power to you.
I would rather put my money down on certain things on tangible things and though I have lost of disposable income I will not spend one more dime on this game, because Games Workshop does not care about the casual player base.

They should know better.


I agree with your overall feeling that it is not an investment.

However, I think you may be off on two assumptions.
1- That GW games are a niche of the overall miniature wargamign market
2- That being made of plastic sets them apart.

As to the first point, GW is still a HUGE player in wagaming. PP and others are catching up , but the feeling I get visiting various area wargaming stores is that GW is still the big dog. Head to big gaming cons and look at what portion of the tabletops are taken by 40k and compare that to everyone else. I wouldn't hesitate to assume that GW easily eats 25-50% of the entire miniature wargamign market. If you include board games and card games that shrinks, but in minaitures GW still stands on top.

Regarding the second, GW might have cheapened it's appeal by going to a less durable material than metal, but most compaines are going that way now. Plastic, Resin and PLasti-Resin is the order of the day for the big games. All of these are less durable mediums, not likely to hold their value or stand up to stripping and reselling the way a metal mini would.

Chicago Skirmish Wargames club. Join us for some friendly, casual gaming in the Windy City.
http://chicagoskirmishwargames.com/blog/


My Project Log, mostly revolving around custom "Toybashed" terrain.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/651712.page

Visit the Chicago Valley Railroad!
https://chicagovalleyrailroad.blogspot.com 
   
Made in us
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer





Mississippi

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Herzlos wrote:
I wonder what the best gaming buys are at the moment, from an investment point of view. Old metal stuff that's long OOP, or limited run current stuff? What's going to have performed best in 10/20/30 years?


Over 10-20-30 years? Magic Cards, if you bought before 1995.


Eventually, even Magic will fall along the wayside like (baseball) Trading cards - it just is the question when "The next big thing" will be along.

It never ends well 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Steelcity

Most OOP models are worth almost nothing as their value is based on nostalgia. SOME old models have value but not many. They're usually terrible looking sculpts for a dead game that no one has cared about in 20 years and they were never collectible to begin with.

MTG cards aren't even great investments because to sell a black lotus for its top price you need to find a buyer willing to pay that and those buyers are virtually non-existent. Often people confuse potential value with realized value.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/15 23:22:04


Keeper of the DomBox
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Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

If you are trying to make money off gaming products and you are not a business/LLC producing games.... stop now.

Instead, go take the money you were going to spend on gaming stuff and put it in a low cost S&P 500 Index Fund in a Roth IRA immediately! Any bank can do this.

You are welcome.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/11/16 14:38:28


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Made in us
Keeper of the Flame





Monticello, IN

LunarSol wrote:I do not expect to ever get anything back from game money spent.


Asmodai wrote:
 LunarSol wrote:
I do not expect to ever get anything back from game money spent.


Ditto. It's no more an investment for me than going to see a movie or out to dinner with friends is.

Being able to recoup some residual value can be a nice bonus, but I don't purchase or budget with that in mind.


chromedog wrote:The "value" I get out of gaming stuff is not measured in dollar terms and resale value but by how much enjoyment I get out of it.



All of this right here. Never go into gaming thinking of it as an investment. Hell, don't go into collecting things thinking of them as an investment. I used to have some Transformers Alternators I was sitting on, and got the gumption to clear them so I could fund some Warhammer and newer TF purchases. Mirage, who was a top dollar seller back then, had his market drop thoroughly. to where I barely skimmed over what I paid retail for him. It was a lesson learned, and I treat all my hobbies as just that. I have stocks for my investments.

www.classichammer.com

For 4-6th WFB, 2-5th 40k, and similar timeframe gaming

Looking for dice from the new AOS boxed set and Dark Imperium on the cheap. Let me know if you can help.
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
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