Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Buried in a unmarked or just numbered grave to keep the crazies from finding it.
I assumed some lab somewhere would want to dissect his brain. Or do we not do that anymore?
Frazzled wrote:Just bury/cremate him and be done. No need to feticize this.
Ummm. Not sure if they need to anymore, not with 3d scans etc.?
And that's why a say buy on a numbered plot, empty patch of sea.
No one can find him without the files and they get locked tight.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/21 16:29:14
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
ZergSmasher wrote:I'm glad he's finally dead, but I'm sorry for all the taxpayers who in part paid his living expenses in prison for all those years. He should have been executed so the state wouldn't have to pay for his worthless ass for nearly half a century.
They should have cremated him and let the families of his victims take turns peeing in the ashes.
I disagree. Like I said earlier, killing him in the 70s would have just increased his mythos and cult status.
oldravenman3025 wrote:Hitler was a bastard and had the gift of gab of a master politician. But he just came along at the right time and right place. And Hitler could get along with people that weren't considered enemies. Manson? He didn't need a battered and demoralized population, and a stroke of luck, to sway others to do his bidding. Manson could sway a nun in paradise, given a little time.
Not all of Manson's "family" were losers and failures at life. Some of them were intelligent, decent people caught up in the counter-culture at the time.
Sometimes, the level of evil cannot be judged by deeds or scope. Hitler was evil, but Manson had charismatic and sinister qualities about him that makes him stand out from the crowd.
I think you are overstating his charisma. Regardless, I think we can both agree he was a total piece of gak and the world is better off without him.
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
Steve steveson wrote: It’s a valid counter argument to “execute them so the state doesn’t have to pay for them to live in jail.”
It is, but it buys in to the same false argument that the money, whether it is a saving or a cost, is a meaningful element of the issue.
Imagine if you managed a bar, and one day the owner comes in telling you he's a got a bright idea to improve profits, he's going to stop putting nuts out on the counter. He just doesn't want to pay for those nuts any more. You could respond to him by saying that actually you've got a deal with the supplier with a huge kickback because they just want to get their product in a trendy bar with their logo prominently displayed, and with that kickback then maybe you actually make a profit by having those nuts on the counter. Then the two of you can start going back through old invoices and adding everything up to figure out if what you pay for nuts exceeds the kickbacks. All that debate will quickly hide the real issue - whether it is a small expense or a small loss, either way the number is absolutely trivial and should play no factor at all in whether you decide to put peanuts out or not.
It's the same thing with this death penalty debate. I've seen it argued back and forth for weeks, over hundreds of posts, with both sides making good cases, but all it does is bury the one real truth at the core of the issue - if we as a society want to keep these people in max security for the rest of their lives, it is easily affordable, and if we want to kill them that is also easily affordable. It is simply a choice over whether we want to kill them or we don't.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/22 07:42:12
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
“Charles Manson is dead… but his music will live on,” one tweeter wrote on the microblogging site on Monday, November 20, alongside a photo of the “Tattooed in Reverse” singer.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/11/22 12:53:03
“Charles Manson is dead… but his music will live on,” one tweeter wrote on the microblogging site on Monday, November 20, alongside a photo of the “Tattooed in Reverse” singer.
Insert Nelson-- <"Ha, Ha!">
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/22 14:58:45
Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing
“Charles Manson is dead… but his music will live on,” one tweeter wrote on the microblogging site on Monday, November 20, alongside a photo of the “Tattooed in Reverse” singer.
Well, Twatter isn't exactly known for it's collective intelligence or being well-informed. The idiots and attention whores on there have caused so much headache, I stopped using it. Much like the Youtube comments section.
Steve steveson wrote: It’s a valid counter argument to “execute them so the state doesn’t have to pay for them to live in jail.”
It is, but it buys in to the same false argument that the money, whether it is a saving or a cost, is a meaningful element of the issue.
Imagine if you managed a bar, and one day the owner comes in telling you he's a got a bright idea to improve profits, he's going to stop putting nuts out on the counter. He just doesn't want to pay for those nuts any more. You could respond to him by saying that actually you've got a deal with the supplier with a huge kickback because they just want to get their product in a trendy bar with their logo prominently displayed, and with that kickback then maybe you actually make a profit by having those nuts on the counter. Then the two of you can start going back through old invoices and adding everything up to figure out if what you pay for nuts exceeds the kickbacks. All that debate will quickly hide the real issue - whether it is a small expense or a small loss, either way the number is absolutely trivial and should play no factor at all in whether you decide to put peanuts out or not.
It's the same thing with this death penalty debate. I've seen it argued back and forth for weeks, over hundreds of posts, with both sides making good cases, but all it does is bury the one real truth at the core of the issue - if we as a society want to keep these people in max security for the rest of their lives, it is easily affordable, and if we want to kill them that is also easily affordable. It is simply a choice over whether we want to kill them or we don't.
Pretty much this. Spot on.
I'm pro-capital punishment, but not because of costs. It's because I firmly believe that some monsters and scum don't deserve to breath the same air as decent people.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/22 22:28:34
jhe90 wrote: Buried in a unmarked or just numbered grave to keep the crazies from finding it.
Cremate him and scatter him in a random field somewhere. We definitely don't need any kind of marker for this guy.
The sea is a big place...
I mean middle of Atlantic. No one is gonna ever find you again.
I would hate to pollute the Atlantic.
Better the Atlantic than the Pacific. We do NOT want to accidentally wake Cthulhu with this kind of offering.
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
jhe90 wrote: Buried in a unmarked or just numbered grave to keep the crazies from finding it.
Cremate him and scatter him in a random field somewhere. We definitely don't need any kind of marker for this guy.
The sea is a big place...
I mean middle of Atlantic. No one is gonna ever find you again.
I would hate to pollute the Atlantic.
Better the Atlantic than the Pacific. We do NOT want to accidentally wake Cthulhu with this kind of offering.
Yeah. I suspect feeding him Manson would give him the runs. That might piss him off.
By the way, Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn. Be sure to chant that everyday. That way, if you kiss dread Cthulhu's ass enough, he might spare you the madness by eating you first.
I prefer to hedge my bets.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/23 00:17:46
Steve steveson wrote: It’s a valid counter argument to “execute them so the state doesn’t have to pay for them to live in jail.”
It's the same thing with this death penalty debate. I've seen it argued back and forth for weeks, over hundreds of posts, with both sides making good cases, but all it does is bury the one real truth at the core of the issue - if we as a society want to keep these people in max security for the rest of their lives, it is easily affordable, and if we want to kill them that is also easily affordable. It is simply a choice over whether we want to kill them or we don't.
Besides which possible death penalty cases in themself already cost a lot more than ones where the maximum penalty is life in prison, because more expensive lawyers, better forensics, loads more background work is being brought in. Then add in the higher cost of death row even compared to MaxSec and the (also more expensive) appeals to higher courts and the execution has already cost more than locking the guy up for life. Not all American states have bothered to research it, but those that have seem to find the prosecutor seeking the death penalty means the good tax payers get to pay anything between 2 to 10 times as much for the whole deal. And that's not counting time spent in Federal lockup.
So yeah, while killing a murderer might seem simple and cheap it is actually very expensive - in a country ruled by law. If the cops were Judges it would be cheaper, ofc, but would anyone want THAT?
Manson, yeah, I've heard of him. But he was an old guy locked up in prison for what, 50 years? Meaningless and useless to me. IMO it's a much better punishment for guys like this to be locked up for life, just people who die of old age instead of being made into legendary figures who went out with a smile and a catchy few last words.
Future War Cultist wrote: Is it the appeals that drive the cost of the death penalty up in the states?
The appeals process is a part of it, and a big part at that. But as noted by an earlier post, everything starts to cost more when the state is pushing for a death penalty conviction.
Emperor's Eagles (undergoing Chapter reorganization)
Caledonian 95th (undergoing regimental reorganization)
Thousands Sons (undergoing Warband re--- wait, are any of my 40K armies playable?)
ZergSmasher wrote:I'm glad he's finally dead, but I'm sorry for all the taxpayers who in part paid his living expenses in prison for all those years. He should have been executed so the state wouldn't have to pay for his worthless ass for nearly half a century.
They should have cremated him and let the families of his victims take turns peeing in the ashes.
I disagree. Like I said earlier, killing him in the 70s would have just increased his mythos and cult status.
oldravenman3025 wrote:Hitler was a bastard and had the gift of gab of a master politician. But he just came along at the right time and right place. And Hitler could get along with people that weren't considered enemies. Manson? He didn't need a battered and demoralized population, and a stroke of luck, to sway others to do his bidding. Manson could sway a nun in paradise, given a little time.
Not all of Manson's "family" were losers and failures at life. Some of them were intelligent, decent people caught up in the counter-culture at the time.
Sometimes, the level of evil cannot be judged by deeds or scope. Hitler was evil, but Manson had charismatic and sinister qualities about him that makes him stand out from the crowd.
I think you are overstating his charisma. Regardless, I think we can both agree he was a total piece of gak and the world is better off without him.
Yeah, execution would have made him a martyr, since some members of his so-called "family" was still loose and active. Hell, Squeaky Fromme tried to assassinate Gerald Ford back in '75. I vaguely remember my folks talking about it one night at the supper table when I was a kid, when it was all over the news.
Funny thing is that she was released in 2009. She got less time for attempting to kill the President of the United States, than the other "family" members for the Tate–LaBianca Murders.
And there is the mysterious murder of Ron Hughes, the lawyer that represented Manson. Some believe that the "family" killed him.
As for the last part, fair enough. We are in agreement on that Manson's absence in the world is a good thing.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/24 01:30:57
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
Emperor's Eagles (undergoing Chapter reorganization)
Caledonian 95th (undergoing regimental reorganization)
Thousands Sons (undergoing Warband re--- wait, are any of my 40K armies playable?) 
