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I think we should start a spreadsheet compiling the prices for all of these weapons, and which book to find them in.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Honestly I wouldn't expect any of these kinds of issues to get fixed going forward, on the stream the other day Andy seemed perfectly happy with "meh, everything's in one of the books we've published somewhere"(obviously I'm paraphrasing) as a response to "why isn't this or that in the rulebook/legacy/GW1 as well" type questions.

Which is exactly why I won't be spending a penny on the new rules until they collect everything into a single volume.

Yes in my eyes this release (while good) is a complete mess. Which is exactly why I am compiling and correcting everything in to one single document.

However, making a single document form multiple mutually inconsistent documents is a challenge.

Specially when they introduce things like Boltgun1, Boltgun2, Boltgun3.

Baxx wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Honestly I wouldn't expect any of these kinds of issues to get fixed going forward, on the stream the other day Andy seemed perfectly happy with "meh, everything's in one of the books we've published somewhere"(obviously I'm paraphrasing) as a response to "why isn't this or that in the rulebook/legacy/GW1 as well" type questions.

Which is exactly why I won't be spending a penny on the new rules until they collect everything into a single volume.

Yes in my eyes this release (while good) is a complete mess. Which is exactly why I am compiling and correcting everything in to one single document.

However, making a single document form multiple mutually inconsistent documents is a challenge.

Specially when they introduce things like Boltgun1, Boltgun2, Boltgun3.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.

If a Spreadsheet, you could do something like:

BOLTERS
-Bolter 1 <cost> <Sourcebook>
-Bolter 2 <cost> <Sourcebook>

I think adding the rules (S, AP, etc) would break GW's rules.

Guess I won't prioritizing picking up the rules.

Maybe GW could put a 'Trading Post' PDF up on the Necromunda site as a kind of 'living' document as books come out.

I'm keeping a trading post document of my own for the time being, using the prices listed in the GW book. I'll be adding these as more books are released, this should make our own campaign a bit easier to keep track of.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Maybe GW could put a 'Trading Post' PDF up on the Necromunda site as a kind of 'living' document as books come out.

But then people might not buy all the Gang Wars, defeating the purpose of splitting the content in the first place. I doubt they'll put out combined documents for anything unless & until we get the big compilation book, since they can charge you for that.

Based on what we already have learned from Blood Bowl the last year, GW is just gonna keep making a complete mess out of the rules, only fixing it with faqs and erratas.

In a year's time, maybe we get a big compilation book.

In the meantime, I'm gonna make the compilation book for them.

Baxx wrote:
GW is just gonna keep making a complete mess out of the rules, only fixing it with faqs and erratas.

Yeah it seems worse to me because it's in the boxed game and then the at release dlc. What would it cost to get it right the first time I wonder?

Glad I decided to wait.

 Infantryman wrote:
I think we should start a spreadsheet compiling the prices for all of these weapons, and which book to find them in.

I've got my own spreadsheet listing all the weapons in the game (so far), their stats, and their cost. Cost is listed separately by Trading post and each house. There's a lot of data missing, unfortunately, and the formatting is a little... raw.

I made the spreadsheet with Excel 2002 so you'll need a compatible viewer.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=14MVZaGM4ZJj5M0ScydqP9j3MuGEWJM21



Let me know if there are any errors and I'll try to get it updated within a day or two.

SECOND EDIT: Changed link to my Google drive. Let me know if there are any problems accessing it.

So, when a Juve becomes a champion, does that mean that the model can now also finally get some armour?

 BrookM wrote:
So, when a Juve becomes a champion, does that mean that the model can now also finally get some armour?

Armour is a class of wargear and Champions have no wargear restrictions, so yes, in theory. In practice, there are no purchasable Armour items listed in any armoury.

Here's hoping that a future GW book allows for the purchase of armour, until then it'll have to be a suit of under armour whatever it is called when they grow up.

Could someone test the share I posted above? I want to make sure it works. Thanks.

 Breotan wrote:
Could someone test the share I posted above? I want to make sure it works. Thanks.

Works for me

Awesome. I'll keep it updated as new books are published.

 Breotan wrote:

I made the spreadsheet with Excel 2002 so you'll need a compatible viewer.
Let me know if there are any errors and I'll try to get it updated within a day or two.

SECOND EDIT: Changed link to my Google drive. Let me know if there are any problems accessing it.

Nice!

I did something similar, except I couldn't get a nice layout to get the tables side-by side like you did, so I split them up. I also added the equipment from Legends pdf and the chainsword from Gor Half-horn (pages 21 and 35).

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1nh6JvJ6HuKQLW_x5Vf5CgY5H04dHQ5Kwv_zJebZaOlE

Baxx wrote:

I did something similar, except I couldn't get a nice layout to get the tables side-by side like you did, so I split them up. I also added the equipment from Legends pdf and the chainsword from Gor Half-horn (pages 21 and 35).
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1nh6JvJ6HuKQLW_x5Vf5CgY5H04dHQ5Kwv_zJebZaOlE

Amazing!
Although there still are some unclear rules (such as how to distribute CC attacks for a fighter with two pistols) and questionable sectioning (such if Fighters in Hiding. should apply to only 2D or also 3D) even in this excellent edition - this is *exactly* how it should have been done by GW/FW!

The original rules are a total and utter mess so this (I downloaded it as a PDF) will be beyond value - we are talking real Mung vase appraisal - for our campaign!

Keep up the good work - and hopefully Andy Hoare and crew will see and understand how to write rules!



PS. Made you a ”Dakka Contributing Member” as a small token of my appreciation

 Flinty wrote:
1st edition was the amazing boxed set, which was expanded by Outlanders. 2nd edition, as far as I'm aware, was just a softback rules update to bring the rules a bit more into line with the then current 40k mechanics as well as fiddle with things a bit. Then it went Specialist games only and there was probably some community footling.

Am I missing anything major?

See Yaktribe for the hella tight Community Edition update to the Original Rulebook / Living Rulebook from Games Workshop. Sort of obsolete for modern Necromunda play, but great nonetheless.

 kendoka wrote:

Baxx wrote:

I did something similar, except I couldn't get a nice layout to get the tables side-by side like you did, so I split them up. I also added the equipment from Legends pdf and the chainsword from Gor Half-horn (pages 21 and 35).
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1nh6JvJ6HuKQLW_x5Vf5CgY5H04dHQ5Kwv_zJebZaOlE

Amazing!
Although there still are some unclear rules (such as how to distribute CC attacks for a fighter with two pistols) and questionable sectioning (such if Fighters in Hiding. should apply to only 2D or also 3D) even in this excellent edition - this is *exactly* how it should have been done by GW/FW!

The original rules are a total and utter mess so this (I downloaded it as a PDF) will be beyond value - we are talking real Mung vase appraisal - for our campaign!

Keep up the good work - and hopefully Andy Hoare and crew will see and understand how to write rules!



PS. Made you a ”Dakka Contributing Member” as a small token of my appreciation

Thanks alot! I just discovered someone else did the exact same thing as me.

Reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/necromunda/comments/7er2y8/necromunda_underhive_rules_transcript_en/
Pdf link:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1L19AaQmIxlDvvX17e7AAle_J0TvTbb7T/view

Interesting to see we made many of the same choices:

-discarded the outdated scenarios from the Underhive book (Underhive scenarios are incompatible with campaign, Gang War 1 scenarios are compatible with both single game and campaign)
-discarded the dumbed down dead demo house lists of Underhive (incompatible with Gang War 1 and superseded by it from day one)
-discarded demo skill list in Underhive (incompatible with Gang War 1 and superseded by it from day one)
-used prices and stats from Gang War 1 instead of Underhive (also superseded)
-discarded the pre-filled cards not compatible with Underhive house lists nor Gang War 1 house lists (only for demo purposes).

This pretty much proves my point about the incompatible systems of gang creation that GW has confused us with.

So you finally admit that the stuff in the rulebook was superseded by the GW stuff, and isn't a "different version" of Necromunda.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So you finally admit that the stuff in the rulebook was superseded by the GW stuff, and isn't a "different version" of Necromunda.

IMHO: This (the whole argument regarding "Demo"/"Outdated") is just semantics.
We all share the same opinion regarding the problems associated with how the rules were split.
Baxx, not being a native English speaker, (as mee) may word it different/wrong - but there is no real reason to fuel that pointless debate further.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So you finally admit that the stuff in the rulebook was superseded by the GW stuff, and isn't a "different version" of Necromunda.

I may just as well have called it a system.

So how do I buy mesh armour for my leader, how much does it cost, and how does it work?

 Casbyness wrote:
So how do I buy mesh armour for my leader, how much does it cost, and how does it work?

Good question, unfortunately no one knows. There's no rules for it.

The new Gang War 2 solves some of the problems by replacing all previous weapon stats, but it also introduces a bunch of new problems like:

-Stub Gun no longer has Pistol trait?
-Shock Whip no longer Versatile?
-Brute Cleaver no longer an option?

I guess Games Workshop / Forge World didn't want to release a faq/errata pdf before Gang War 2, since Gang War 2 potentially could solve some of the issues. But we still very much need that faq/errata, except now also covering the mistakes made in Gang War 2. The chaos continues...

Don't the rules for the axe mirror the brute cleaver (including the 'Disarm' ability)?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Don't the rules for the axe mirror the brute cleaver (including the 'Disarm' ability)?

The weapon profiles for the Axe and Brute Cleaver are as below.

Axe:

| - | E | - | - | +1 | - | 1 | - | Disarm, Melee

Brute Cleaver:

| - | E | - | +1 | S | -1 | 1 | - | Disarm, Melee

As for the Brute Cleaver not being an option on p30 of GW2 (Underhive Armory), it's most likely they just forgot about it and copied their data from the Trading Post of the previous book which also did not have the Brute Cleaver listed.

EDIT: I've updated my weapons spreadsheet. I should have all weapons available in the game listed, along with points cost. I've left the missing traits on the Stub Gun and Shock Whip as their omission is an obvious error.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1VLCPtNqTDRzzI15t1xmyHZ71_sbOWr9M

Nice work! It is the best presentation of the data. I'm still quite amazed GW went with separate house-prices per weapon (seeing as they messed it up at least on one occasion).

I forgot that the same weapons were not in GW1. I'm not so sure the starter box rulebook (and a few of the weapons there) were even permanent. Maybe Brute Cleaver and Spud-jacker was a mistake? Maybe it was something done in the last minute, forced upon the rule writers by the miniature designers, and later silently omitted? How many additional Gang War armories can we get without these weapons and still think they're in the game?

Baxx wrote:
Nice work! It is the best presentation of the data. I'm still quite amazed GW went with separate house-prices per weapon (seeing as they messed it up at least on one occasion).

I forgot that the same weapons were not in GW1. I'm not so sure the starter box rulebook (and a few of the weapons there) were even permanent. Maybe Brute Cleaver and Spud-jacker was a mistake? Maybe it was something done in the last minute, forced upon the rule writers by the miniature designers, and later silently omitted? How many additional Gang War armories can we get without these weapons and still think they're in the game?

First thing to remember is that Forge World has never been known for writing great rules. In the past they've been masters of "cut & paste", publishing trial rules as finished, and even contradictory rules and stats within the same book. Don't even get me started about the lack of proofreading. This silliness is still there in the current Blood Bowl, although to a much lesser extent. If things are missing it's most likely because someone at FW wasn't paying attention. This may be why Spud-jackers aren't listed in the armory. Then again, it's possible that FW intended each gang to have their own house armory with in the gang section of the rulebook but never got around to it or otherwise dropped the ball on it before publication. I don't see this changing until the almanac, if then. Silliness like this is the main impetus for me creating the weapons spreadsheet.

I think part of the issue with house prices being different from the trading post is that FW wanted to have some weapons be associated with specific houses. This is a stylistic choice meant to differentiate gangs meaning other houses have to pay more for a given weapon or perhaps the weapon isn't even listed in the traiding post at all. For example, Eschers get lasguns on the cheap but pay through the nose for a shotgun. Want a Stub Cannon? You better enjoy playing Goliaths. Honestly, I'm fine with this. In previous editions, the only real difference between gangs seemed to be which skill tree they could roll on.

We have been using the trading post costs from a previous rules edition.

It was a simpler solution that trying to figure out which book or pdf had the correct information (or in some cases missing all together).

Hopefully the rumored FAQ will clear up these problems.