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The Canoness is mandatory because she's the only HQ option besides St. Celestine or Uriah Jacobus. I too vote Yes for Sister's, I am also undefeated in 8th with the ladies, but it gets harder with each Codex drop. Chapter Approved did hook me up with 72 more points to play with, so that helped. Seraphim, Dominions, and Retributors carry the army, most of the other units are OK at best, but those 3 squads are so good they can get the job done.(Along with Celestine, who is just plain old awesome.)
2017/12/13 14:41:47
Subject: Re:I really want to start Sisters of battle
Elbows wrote: I'd say go for it, but don't plan on plastic Sisters anytime soon. There are ways to do them - and quite well, namely using the Dreamforge Eisenkern line of Valkir models, etc. Admittedly not much cheaper going that route than buying metal Sisters, but if you want them - they're possible.
Spoiler:
[spoiler]
These models look incredible! Where are you getting the female heads, though? All I see that comes with the kit are helmets.
These are not my models - the heads, however, are from Statuesque Miniatures - available in both 28mm and 32mm (Heroic) scales for your modeling pleasure. Valkirs+bolters/weapons+ladyheads = sweet Sisters. Again though, not super cheap (admittedly Valkir occasionally go on sale from Dreamforge but their shipping is crazy high). It would still be less money than buying $70/10 metal models...shame too as the metals are nice. If they were priced normally ($35-40) they'd probably sell a ton.
2017/12/13 18:41:07
Subject: Re:I really want to start Sisters of battle
The Immolator tank is pretty good, and the Repressor is also good. I've been running Vanguard detachments with Dominions, and haven't had a problem with the lack of Ob-sec because I either wipe out my enemy or pen him into his deployment zone where he can't get to the objectives. I'm actually undefeated with the SoB [can't claim the same for my other armies, though], this edition, but it's been getting more difficult as everyone else gets their codecies and heavy infantry options get cost reductions.
We struggle with multiwound heavy infantry and excel against tanks and light infantry.
Avoid Celestians and Repentia, but that's not new information. The Exorcist is also terrible, and Rets are strictly average. Dominions and Seraphim are great, but the latter is only great as long as they're under an Act of Faith. Immolators and Repressors are both good, mostly for their transport value, but I've have good things from both Multimelta and Immolation Flamer Immolators. Battle Sisters Squads are honestly extremely underwhelming. St. C is St. C, and Canonesses are terrible but mandatory. I haven't had anything useful ever come out of Hospitallers and Dialogus, and Imagifers are, in my opinion, too unreliable. The Adeptus Ministorium units are okay.
I'd like to advocate for HB rets, they're a great AoF target and they really, really benefit from the mandatory canoness while being extremely cheap. 2 units of HB rets with an imagifier will quietly get 2-3 times their points back in light-medium infantry. That said, never take more than 1 imag unless you're running MM rets.
Canoness with the new relic is actually monstrous in close quarters. I don't think there're very many things in the game that can 1v1 her for the 57 points PS+Inferno Pistol build (aren't GKs paladins about that? She'd kill him in shooting.)
Exorcist are pretty underwhelming, even for 135pts but they're still better point for point than standard Leman Russes and as Russ Veal of AoS fame has said 'When only one unit in the army does the thing your list needs to be able to do to win, it doesn't really matter what it costs, you still need it.'
Which...am and SM both have better artillery but if you want the swaggy pure sisters hype Exorcists ARE the only game in town.
Exorcists are not better than Leman Russ Tanks. The stock Leman Russ Tank puts out twice as many shots, for one, and has a secondary gun. Even at 135 there's no contest.
The thing I don't like about HB rets as an AoF target is that I'd need to have an AoF for them. Without an Act of Faith, much like Seraphim, I'd honestly have a hard time calling Retributors good. They get Heavy Bolters, Multimeltas, or Heavy Flamers, literally the three most useless weapon options a heavy weapons team could have. With AoF, yes, they put out a pretty withering fire for their points, but without they're just Devastators with crap weapons. I've actually been much happier with the contribution [or lack thereof] of my Exorcist over HB Rets, because the Exorcist has the fact that it was good last edition going for it, and attracts deepstrikers that have a hard time killing it. Mind you, your results will vary.
The thing is, when I'm asking myself what's going to get the AoF, Sera do far more with it than Rets. 9x or 10x Seraphim can reliably disable a tank or two on turn 1 by jumping across the board and entering CQC, which is considerably more valuable an effect, because SB Doms and IF Immolators are really, really good at clearing out infantry while Melta Doms are, for cost, not nearly as efficient against tanks.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Why is the Canonnes mandatory?
Detachment restrictions. I use 1-2 Vanguards, and a lot of people use Battalions, and Canonesses are the only real HQ choice.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/12/13 18:48:43
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
Also, she's a great backfield booster with HB Rets, she's a solid Warlord because our WT is nothing to actively try to implement, and it allows you to really throw Celestine around knowing your Warlord is safely out of sight radiating re-rolls to units that shoot twice a turn.
If there is one thing I have learned in my 2 decades of GW gaming it's to never choose models based on their power in the game. If you're a regular tournament attendee you may not have a choice, but I'd start with models you like.
I've found this is especially true of the smaller factions that WILL be ignored for long stretches of time by GW.
That said, a painted up sisters force looks great on the table.
dosiere wrote: If there is one thing I have learned in my 2 decades of GW gaming it's to never choose models based on their power in the game. If you're a regular tournament attendee you may not have a choice, but I'd start with models you like.
I've found this is especially true of the smaller factions that WILL be ignored for long stretches of time by GW.
That said, a painted up sisters force looks great on the table.
This. Don't let people dictate to you what you should and should not use in YOUR army. I will happily run multiple Exorcists in my army despite what anyone says. No one should tell you how to have fun.
Exactly as above. Sisters arent a flavour of the month army. You cant buy based on power because we have long droughts of attention.
Best rule fir buying sisters is to buy with the heart. Go with what attracts you. It might not be the mathematically sensible force organisation, but its going to look good to you. A fully painted sisters army will take a massive dump on quite a lot of armies out there- aesthetically.
Bss may not be the ideal choice, but i still like to field them. I got list advice a little while ago and got the obligatory "all dominions, stock up on storm bolters"... while that might be mathematically sound- i dont like it. I wrote that list and hated it and went back to what i like seeing on the table.
Field what YOU like. We're currently in a good place right now that we can take what might not be considered "bringing the cheese" but still put up a good fight.
2017/12/14 03:47:09
Subject: Re:I really want to start Sisters of battle
The Immolator tank is pretty good, and the Repressor is also good. I've been running Vanguard detachments with Dominions, and haven't had a problem with the lack of Ob-sec because I either wipe out my enemy or pen him into his deployment zone where he can't get to the objectives. I'm actually undefeated with the SoB [can't claim the same for my other armies, though], this edition, but it's been getting more difficult as everyone else gets their codecies and heavy infantry options get cost reductions.
We struggle with multiwound heavy infantry and excel against tanks and light infantry.
Avoid Celestians and Repentia, but that's not new information. The Exorcist is also terrible, and Rets are strictly average. Dominions and Seraphim are great, but the latter is only great as long as they're under an Act of Faith. Immolators and Repressors are both good, mostly for their transport value, but I've have good things from both Multimelta and Immolation Flamer Immolators. Battle Sisters Squads are honestly extremely underwhelming. St. C is St. C, and Canonesses are terrible but mandatory. I haven't had anything useful ever come out of Hospitallers and Dialogus, and Imagifers are, in my opinion, too unreliable. The Adeptus Ministorium units are okay.
I'd like to advocate for HB rets, they're a great AoF target and they really, really benefit from the mandatory canoness while being extremely cheap. 2 units of HB rets with an imagifier will quietly get 2-3 times their points back in light-medium infantry. That said, never take more than 1 imag unless you're running MM rets.
Canoness with the new relic is actually monstrous in close quarters. I don't think there're very many things in the game that can 1v1 her for the 57 points PS+Inferno Pistol build (aren't GKs paladins about that? She'd kill him in shooting.)
Exorcist are pretty underwhelming, even for 135pts but they're still better point for point than standard Leman Russes and as Russ Veal of AoS fame has said 'When only one unit in the army does the thing your list needs to be able to do to win, it doesn't really matter what it costs, you still need it.'
Which...am and SM both have better artillery but if you want the swaggy pure sisters hype Exorcists ARE the only game in town.
Exorcists are not better than Leman Russ Tanks. The stock Leman Russ Tank puts out twice as many shots, for one, and has a secondary gun. Even at 135 there's no contest.
The thing I don't like about HB rets as an AoF target is that I'd need to have an AoF for them. Without an Act of Faith, much like Seraphim, I'd honestly have a hard time calling Retributors good. They get Heavy Bolters, Multimeltas, or Heavy Flamers, literally the three most useless weapon options a heavy weapons team could have. With AoF, yes, they put out a pretty withering fire for their points, but without they're just Devastators with crap weapons. I've actually been much happier with the contribution [or lack thereof] of my Exorcist over HB Rets, because the Exorcist has the fact that it was good last edition going for it, and attracts deepstrikers that have a hard time killing it. Mind you, your results will vary.
The thing is, when I'm asking myself what's going to get the AoF, Sera do far more with it than Rets. 9x or 10x Seraphim can reliably disable a tank or two on turn 1 by jumping across the board and entering CQC, which is considerably more valuable an effect, because SB Doms and IF Immolators are really, really good at clearing out infantry while Melta Doms are, for cost, not nearly as efficient against tanks.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Why is the Canonnes mandatory?
Detachment restrictions. I use 1-2 Vanguards, and a lot of people use Battalions, and Canonesses are the only real HQ choice.
So I'm looking at the Leman Russ and it has 1 battlecannon. The profile of the battlecannon is d6 shots d3 damage. The Exorcist has the same profile excepts way better rend and BS. What rule lets it shoot twice? OH and fun fact, even if it does have twice the number of shots Exorcist does 3.89 Damage to a T4 3+ save model A leman russ does 3.888 with the battlecannon(again, assuming 2d6 shots) So even with the HB a Leman russ does less than .5 more damage per round of shooting than the Exorcist for significantly more points.
SO yeah it isn't a contest but that's just because the Exorcist craps all over that pathetic jalopy.
Your entire section on the rets misses the whole point of the unit. They're 85pts. Yes, if they had Lascannons they'd be one of the best units in the game, but they don't so they're just an incredibly useful long range threat against light-medium infantry that isn't worth shooting at but will slowly whittle away all your objective grabbers. Yes, investing imagifiers into them isn't always a great option in terms of efficiency, but the imagifier has gained a lot of use in it's own right thanks to the stratagem. Not every 85pt unit in the game can 1 shot a Stormraven at -2 hit. They do what they need to and are a great mid game AoF target when your seraphim are dead. Because they WILL be dead by turn 3 against a competent opponent.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/14 03:49:13
2017/12/14 04:34:12
Subject: Re:I really want to start Sisters of battle
ERJAK wrote: ...So I'm looking at the Leman Russ and it has 1 battlecannon. The profile of the battlecannon is d6 shots d3 damage. The Exorcist has the same profile excepts way better rend and BS. What rule lets it shoot twice? OH and fun fact, even if it does have twice the number of shots Exorcist does 3.89 Damage to a T4 3+ save model A leman russ does 3.888 with the battlecannon(again, assuming 2d6 shots) So even with the HB a Leman russ does less than .5 more damage per round of shooting than the Exorcist for significantly more points...
Grinding Advance, page 86 of the Codex. It was added in response to complaints that it was, in fact, a pathetic jalopy.
By my count a Russ is slightly cheaper (152 for battlecannon+HB as opposed to 160 for a stock Exorcist), has worse AP and BS, an extra heavy bolter, no Shield of Faith, and more shots, which makes it better at handling volume of lighter targets where the Exorcist is better at handling more armoured targets.
(So they're close to the same price and generally comparable most of the time.)
(Addendum: You take the Exorcist because it's solid long-range fire in an army that doesn't have a whole lot of it, and because you want to hum the 1812 Overture while your pipe-organ rocket launcher rains death down from afar.)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/14 04:37:05
Keep in mind though that with Chapter Approved, Exorcists are now only 135pts.
Good. Hadn't spotted that one, and I've found d6-shot weapons to be generally overpriced in the Indexes thus far, so I'd say (on instinct, without having done much of the math) that it was a change that should have happened.
The Exorcist is okay, I always bring 2 because they're tough and my opponents always seem to shoot at them instead of my vastly more important Immolators and Rhinos. I played a game earlier tonight and they managed to snipe out about 6-7 Devastators, an attack bike, and chipped a few wounds off some vehicles while simultaneously getting shot repeatedly by Lascannons and missile launchers. Celestine did her usual "bathe in the blood of anyone foolish enough to stand in her way" routine, the Seraphim helped her out, Dominions and Immolators scored a quick first blood and died, Retributors killed about 3-4 times their points, and the 2 Canonesses and 3 Battle Squads did very little. There was also an Eversor assassin who performed some solid last minute heroics. If I had gone second, I would have been in serious trouble as I was facing a wall of heavy weapons. But I went first, peeled off a ton of his firepower and then started tackling his army squad by squad. Thank the Holy Emperor for Faith and Saint Celestine.
2017/12/14 08:20:27
Subject: Re:I really want to start Sisters of battle
The Immolator tank is pretty good, and the Repressor is also good. I've been running Vanguard detachments with Dominions, and haven't had a problem with the lack of Ob-sec because I either wipe out my enemy or pen him into his deployment zone where he can't get to the objectives. I'm actually undefeated with the SoB [can't claim the same for my other armies, though], this edition, but it's been getting more difficult as everyone else gets their codecies and heavy infantry options get cost reductions.
We struggle with multiwound heavy infantry and excel against tanks and light infantry.
Avoid Celestians and Repentia, but that's not new information. The Exorcist is also terrible, and Rets are strictly average. Dominions and Seraphim are great, but the latter is only great as long as they're under an Act of Faith. Immolators and Repressors are both good, mostly for their transport value, but I've have good things from both Multimelta and Immolation Flamer Immolators. Battle Sisters Squads are honestly extremely underwhelming. St. C is St. C, and Canonesses are terrible but mandatory. I haven't had anything useful ever come out of Hospitallers and Dialogus, and Imagifers are, in my opinion, too unreliable. The Adeptus Ministorium units are okay.
I'd like to advocate for HB rets, they're a great AoF target and they really, really benefit from the mandatory canoness while being extremely cheap. 2 units of HB rets with an imagifier will quietly get 2-3 times their points back in light-medium infantry. That said, never take more than 1 imag unless you're running MM rets.
Canoness with the new relic is actually monstrous in close quarters. I don't think there're very many things in the game that can 1v1 her for the 57 points PS+Inferno Pistol build (aren't GKs paladins about that? She'd kill him in shooting.)
Exorcist are pretty underwhelming, even for 135pts but they're still better point for point than standard Leman Russes and as Russ Veal of AoS fame has said 'When only one unit in the army does the thing your list needs to be able to do to win, it doesn't really matter what it costs, you still need it.'
Which...am and SM both have better artillery but if you want the swaggy pure sisters hype Exorcists ARE the only game in town.
Exorcists are not better than Leman Russ Tanks. The stock Leman Russ Tank puts out twice as many shots, for one, and has a secondary gun. Even at 135 there's no contest.
The thing I don't like about HB rets as an AoF target is that I'd need to have an AoF for them. Without an Act of Faith, much like Seraphim, I'd honestly have a hard time calling Retributors good. They get Heavy Bolters, Multimeltas, or Heavy Flamers, literally the three most useless weapon options a heavy weapons team could have. With AoF, yes, they put out a pretty withering fire for their points, but without they're just Devastators with crap weapons. I've actually been much happier with the contribution [or lack thereof] of my Exorcist over HB Rets, because the Exorcist has the fact that it was good last edition going for it, and attracts deepstrikers that have a hard time killing it. Mind you, your results will vary.
The thing is, when I'm asking myself what's going to get the AoF, Sera do far more with it than Rets. 9x or 10x Seraphim can reliably disable a tank or two on turn 1 by jumping across the board and entering CQC, which is considerably more valuable an effect, because SB Doms and IF Immolators are really, really good at clearing out infantry while Melta Doms are, for cost, not nearly as efficient against tanks.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Why is the Canonnes mandatory?
Detachment restrictions. I use 1-2 Vanguards, and a lot of people use Battalions, and Canonesses are the only real HQ choice.
So I'm looking at the Leman Russ and it has 1 battlecannon. The profile of the battlecannon is d6 shots d3 damage. The Exorcist has the same profile excepts way better rend and BS. What rule lets it shoot twice? OH and fun fact, even if it does have twice the number of shots Exorcist does 3.89 Damage to a T4 3+ save model A leman russ does 3.888 with the battlecannon(again, assuming 2d6 shots) So even with the HB a Leman russ does less than .5 more damage per round of shooting than the Exorcist for significantly more points.
SO yeah it isn't a contest but that's just because the Exorcist craps all over that pathetic jalopy.
Your entire section on the rets misses the whole point of the unit. They're 85pts. Yes, if they had Lascannons they'd be one of the best units in the game, but they don't so they're just an incredibly useful long range threat against light-medium infantry that isn't worth shooting at but will slowly whittle away all your objective grabbers. Yes, investing imagifiers into them isn't always a great option in terms of efficiency, but the imagifier has gained a lot of use in it's own right thanks to the stratagem. Not every 85pt unit in the game can 1 shot a Stormraven at -2 hit. They do what they need to and are a great mid game AoF target when your seraphim are dead. Because they WILL be dead by turn 3 against a competent opponent.
Grinding Advance. If the Leman Russ tank moves less than 5" [which, guess what, it will], it gets to fire the main gun twice. I don't really consider Russ-tanks, excepting the Punisher, good, but they're strictly not-bad when loaded up with a Lascannon and sponsons. Without fittings, they also fall into the realm of "pretty sub par". The Exorcist doesn't get sponsons, and it doesn't get a Lascannon. Of course, the Leman Russ tank will also be re-rolling the number of shots it outputs from Doctrines, which we don't have yet, though I doubt one is going to match for the Exorcist. The Leman Russ is a tank that might be worth taking, the Exorcist is a brick.
Also, which strategem makes imagifiers useful. They're 40 points, I would buy another 60-point Dominion squad before paying 40 points to get something to shoot twice. I'm also not certain how Rets one-shot Storm Ravens. And I think you miss the point that, no matter how randomly also good a unit may be, an army is not made by having a crap-ton of anti-infantry firepower. We need more guns that can eliminated multiwound infantry and tanks, and Heavy Bolters are no more effective than Storm Bolters, but cost more.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/12/14 08:33:33
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
Sisters look really cool and I've never actually played against them, I'd totally love to.
40k is all about the rule of cool, make it so!
A Song of Ice and Fire - House Greyjoy.
AoS - Maggotkin of Nurgle, Ossiarch Bonereapers & Seraphon.
Bloodbowl - Lizardmen.
Horus Heresy - World Eaters.
Marvel Crisis Protocol - Avengers, Brotherhood of Mutants & Cabal.
Middle Earth Strategy Battle game - Rivendell & The Easterlings.
The Ninth Age - Beast Herds & Highborn Elves.
Warhammer 40k - Tyranids.
2017/12/14 12:51:15
Subject: Re:I really want to start Sisters of battle
justacat wrote: So I've been looking now and where does one find a repressor, it seems like Forgeworld no longer make a kit and everything I have seen seems to be people trying to make there own, and while I am decent at a few things that construction addition to make it look right seems like it maybe a struggle for me
The FW kit is OOP at the moment. There are a few guys doing 3D prints of them that look very nice as well. I think there are pics and store links in the SoB tactics thread.
