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One thing I really liked about Core Space was that the female characters were all sensibly dressed. The only hint of flesh was from a male character.

The female character outfits here do put me off as there is no need for a medic to dress that way.

 Mymearan wrote:

 smurfORnot wrote:

 Mymearan wrote:

 Nostromodamus wrote:

 Mymearan wrote:

 Nostromodamus wrote:
People complaining about cleavage when women dress that way all the time IRL is getting tiring.

What does this game have to do with IRL? They’re taking Alien and adding tit windows. Unnecessary and immature.

Well, to each their own. I just tire of the inevitable outrage when mild cleavage is shown on female miniatures. Just don’t use those minis or play the Scout, who is all covered up.

No outrage here, and I don’t think my posts convey anything of the sort either. I think it’s tiresome, immature, and unnecessary to put tits anywhere and everywhere for no particular reason, especially where it doesn’t fit the theme. Video games do it too, and it’s just as tiresome there.

Man, you really must HATE KDM then,lol

Let's face it, most of the gamers are men, men like boobs....do the math...sex sell stuff. It's enough just to look a bit around yourself and you will see that you are bombarded with it in this or that way.
I really don't have nothing against it, tbh. I don't really care about it, boobs or no boobs, it's the game I am after. But yea, 1st world problems, little plastic models&boobs, I mean, not even a nipple is shown, at least they could have given us 1 nipple xD

I love KDM, in fact I own it. It's a great example of what I'm NOT talking about though. I'm not a huge fan of the KDM pinups, but they 1) exist outside the game, and 2) are specifically made as sexy parodies of in-game concepts. They also have both male and female ones. I never said I hate sex, or boobs, or models with boobs in general. I just hate it when they're shoehorned in where they don't belong, simply because, as you say, "sex sells". It honestly turns me off a game that otherwise looks pretty great.

This turns you of but not KDM? Have you looked at one of the starting survivors, she doesn't have a thing over her boobs...
PinUps are a bit over the top, although I do love them, even male ones...there is something about them,lol
But looking at new designs, you can clearly see that there are more of those pinup poses&skin in new expansions.
Look at infinity, I love the game and designs, but a lot of females there are sexualized, and not really a problem tbh. So this big fuss over a bit of skin, I don't get it...after all, these are little plastic models.
I mean, if you don't like it, don't buy it, but you are probably skipping really nice game. You can always proxy model, fix it with a bit of green stuff or even paint it like she has some kind of underware instead of skin.

I think it's telling that Core Space came out, all of the characters were dressed, and people went "Neato". Was there any significant crowd saying the women were too dressed?

This game previews, some folks say "I think you're overdoing it on the cleavage", and other folks start screaming "YOU PROMISED ME BEWBZ DON'T LISTEN TO THE NAYSAYERS".

It is true that more men than women play minis-based tabletop games, but women are a quickly-growing demographic in the game business. You have Bad Squiddo Games who focuses on stocking and producing sensibly dressed female figures. If there wasn't a demand for it, Annie wouldn't have a business, but her company keeps growing. At least in my neck of the woods, women would prefer to play tabletop games with meeples than inappropriately sexualized detailed female models. Women who play games become women who recruit other women to play games, who may become women who own businesses that sell games. And they in turn will bring more women into the hobby. It was certainly the case for the last 5 years in my area.

I've seen a bunch of people say "BUT KINGDOM DEATH" and frankly that's comparing apples to staircases, because Poots deconstructs (or maybe more accurately vivisects) the goose, the gander, and pretty much everything in-between. It's also a central theme to his universe. People have tried making "Sexy" tabletop games before and they've failed because they've just slapped some cleavage on a ruleset hoping that sex will sell. That's the case here.

If Awaken Realms decided to swap out the pilot and medic models for more dressed versions, and released pin-up versions of all 6 base characters in a set as an add-on, would it prevent you from buying the game? Because if they're seriously looking to take this game to retail after they produce it, they will need to consider how it will look on a store shelf, and whether it will sell there. And boxes have way less space to show off what's inside than a web page does, so the publishers are going to need to carefully consider what they put out there if they want their product to sell after the initial KS. There are better fights to be had than keeping boob-windows.

mrgrigson wrote:
I think it's telling that Core Space came out, all of the characters were dressed, and people went "Neato". Was there any significant crowd saying the women were too dressed?

I only saw one person in the comments. He also wanted breasts added to all the robots as they were not sexy enough.

I agree, sometimes boobs are really, really cool, but sometimes, not at all. Why are 2/3 of women showing only that part theirs bodies ? Aren't they selling a serious game about an alien invasion, with soldiers, etc ?
It is not natural, it looks out of place. Sometimes no boobs looks out of place, but there ? Totally.
If I were selling models of people living in Russia, in winter, and only women were naked, and all of them were showing their parts, would it be serious ?
The fact a good part of the people on this thread speaks mainly about this shows it is not even good for business.
I never bought a mini because it had boobs, but I did avoid hyper sexualized models.

Perhaps I missed something, but where are people getting the idea these are military types? What I read sounded like a deep space salvage team getting woken out of cryo sleep.

Every similarity with Alien is totaly coincidence....lol

My eyes instantly go to the alien head sitting there patiently trying to figure out why it didn't make a move earlier, and why she didn't notice it. The symmetry in the wall is all wrong!

I agree, sometimes boobs are really, really cool, but sometimes, not at all. Why are 2/3 of women showing only that part theirs bodies ? Aren't they selling a serious game about an alien invasion, with soldiers, etc ?
It is not natural, it looks out of place. Sometimes no boobs looks out of place, but there ? Totally.
If I were selling models of people living in Russia, in winter, and only women were naked, and all of them were showing their parts, would it be serious ?
The fact a good part of the people on this thread speaks mainly about this shows it is not even good for business.
I never bought a mini because it had boobs, but I did avoid hyper sexualized models.

I agree with pretty much all of this, the tone of a game should be at least semi-consistent. If I was just looking at the box this looks like a gritty space salvagers/engineers vs aliens game. Cool, I like that.

Then every female model is running around with maximum cleavage. Sorry, that wouldn't be my first concern when Geiger's scrapbook comes after me.

Then of course to know I'd have the pleasure of playing the game with the sort of gamers who proudly declare "men like boobs, that's all women are good for anyway". Be still my heart right there.

It would look out of place if suddenly Dead Space had a bunch of full frontal nudity (not counting the monsters) "because that's what guys like". It's not the right tone for action/horror, that's not the draw for most people.

Don't back the game, problem solved
Plenty of people will, so again, no problem.
Who likes it, great, who doesn't , plenty of other games out there.

1st world problem...do little plastic toys have too much or too little cleavage. I mean, I really feel the struggle and the problems here. Because of it, I am already begining to look and treat women as objects.

Same as yesterday, as apparently one of the main problems today in my country is people taking pictures with their dogs in beds, because you know, not enough pictures with kids in bed...but here, now, apparently modern family is man, wife & dog because of this...

Don't back the game, problem solved
Plenty of people will, so again, no problem.
Who likes it, great, who doesn't , plenty of other games out there.

1st world problem...do little plastic toys have too much or too little cleavage. I mean, I really feel the struggle and the problems here. Because of it, I am already begining to look and treat women as objects.

Well, how can I argue with a smug assertion of mythical hordes of people that'll disagree about the incongruous tone of this game? After all it's a "1st world" problem to have consistency or to accept criticism. I guess only "1st world" companies are the only ones that have to worry about customer perception and feedback too apparently.

But hey as long as there's plenty of people buying in countries one step removed from dragging women back to their caves by the hair I'm sure this game will do just fine.

Can we maybe not have an argument about cleavage in the news and rumor thread? It has nothing to do with either of those things and is, I think, better taken elsewhere.

In fact there's probably already an ongoing argument on the boardgame geek page for this game, I imagine you can go join in there if you really want to fight over it.

I think we are free to discuss whatever part of the new release we want, actually.

The medic is bewbs for the purpose of bewbs. However, my biggest issue is the scout.

She's a cool model, but why on earth does the scout have big clompy stompy boots?

 Thunderfrog wrote:

I think we are free to discuss whatever part of the new release we want, actually.

The medic is bewbs for the purpose of bewbs. However, my biggest issue is the scout.

She's a cool model, but why on earth does the scout have big clompy stompy boots?

Maybe stealth-enhancing dampener fields are bulky? Or maybe she's a rocker with the requisite boots. (Remember Meredith Brooks?)

Anyway, I really wonder about the soldier's bowl helm and the scientist's canted wheels. Those are the minis I want out of this collection.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
I would say my opinion of This War of Mine's minis is higher than his.

Speaking of TWoM, they didn't go for tit windows.

Why? Because, I would argue, that it's science fiction, not science *fantasy*. In science fiction, you extrapolate fiction based on science, and science says that, to protect yourself from the elements, be it Sarajevo civil war or deep space, you wear protective clothing. It's *science fantasy*, a genre more popular during the 50's (as shown by my link to pinup science fantasy art) where you can more easily get away with fantasy elements.



Relic Knights would be an example of science fantasy. Everyone's a supermodel (or talking animal) and we're fine with that. Here're what mechanics look like in the future -- a science fantasy future.

Why? Because, I would argue, that it's science fiction, not science *fantasy*. In science fiction, you extrapolate fiction based on science, and science says that, to protect yourself from the elements, be it Sarajevo civil war or deep space, you wear protective clothing. It's *science fantasy*, a genre more popular during the 50's (as shown by my link to pinup science fantasy art) where you can more easily get away with fantasy elements.

You come to an unknown planet, not really aware of what awaits you there, I mean, who knows what kind of bacteria and viruses are out there? Yea, protective clothing...



Should we comment weapons...we discovered space travel, colonization etc...yet somehow, thrusty old M4 is still here, apparently somewhere on the way, we stopped advancing weapons, because you know, m4/shotgun is best possible weapon there is.


Looking at they latest KS, Lords of Hellas, female models have a lot of feminine attributes shown, even monolith. So judging by that KS success, I don't think generally people have problem with cleavage and overthink it.

Just watched the BoW playthrough video, looks amazingly fun!

 smurfORnot wrote:
You come to an unknown planet, not really aware of what awaits you there, I mean, who knows what kind of bacteria and viruses are out there? Yea, protective clothing...

Like this, right?



Wonder how well that works in the vacuum of space... :rolleyes:

I'm laughing my ass off at the tits. Is this game supposed to be serious, or is the company banking on horny 20 year olds backing this game?

Tits are fine. Women have them. But women in combat situations don't show them, because they don't want to get stabbed in the fething heart.

The same reason they don't wear god damn high heels. What a [MOD EDIT - Language! - Alpharius] joke.

That's not their image, though - ced was just using it to make a point...

Will be interesting to see how this does, it launches later today!

Again, where are people getting the idea these characters are military or otherwise destined for combat? All I have read of the lore indicates they are salvagers woken from stasis by Alien intruders fething their ship up. There is a total of 1 (possibly 2) soldier class so far, the rest are civilian classes.

 McNinja wrote:
I'm laughing my ass off at the tits. Is this game supposed to be serious, or is the company banking on horny 20 year olds backing this game?

Tits are fine. Women have them. But women in combat situations don't show them, because they don't want to get stabbed in the fething heart.

The same reason they don't wear god damn high heels. What a fuckin joke.

Well, if a piece of cloth is gonna save you from a stab wound...okay...

I mean, in alien movies they are dressed...didn't seem to help them for some reason,lol

Have you not watched movies? High heels work great! Look at latest Jurassic park, she is running through forest in heels, no problemo...in Atomic Blonde she is kicking ass with heels in cc, and so on

At one point you do need to realize that you can't really have pure realism. Do you play videogames? Because I am quite sure things don't work in real life as they do in 99.99% of the games, and yet people don't come shouting, I hit that guy with a rifle and he kept running, 5sec later he healed by himself etc. I shoot that guy dead, he didn't gak himself when he died!

 ScarletRose wrote:
But hey as long as there's plenty of people buying in countries one step removed from dragging women back to their caves by the hair I'm sure this game will do just fine.

What is it about female anatomy that prevents people on gaming forums from discussing it in a reasonable manner?

 smurfORnot wrote:
Have you not watched movies? High heels work great! Look at latest Jurassic park, she is running through forest in heels, no problemo...in Atomic Blonde she is kicking ass with heels in cc, and so on

At one point you do need to realize that you can't really have pure realism. Do you play videogames? Because I am quite sure things don't work in real life as they do in 99.99% of the games, and yet people don't come shouting, I hit that guy with a rifle and he kept running, 5sec later he healed by himself etc. I shoot that guy dead, he didn't gak himself when he died!

HIgh heels! I was doing searches on "science fiction boobs" and "science fiction cleavage" for those images. Shoulda gone with "science fiction heels". Actually, "sexy space costumes" has the best results.

I don't think the problem is "pure realism", but of consistency. The game's obviously based on Aliens, which I'd say falls under the hard science of science fiction, rather than that of the "high heel" science fantasy. Nemesis'"tit windows" are arbitrarily there, making the outfit more similar to a "sexy space costume" than outfits found in hard science. Diementionsal Games did Aliens before with Deep Madness, and didn't need high heels or keyholes. Their diver figure shows off the most skin, but her outfit isn't sexified, though the cyber-suspenders, cyber-kneecaps, and BFHarpoon make it on the silly side for me.

Anyway, Nemesis has a 24-hour EB, so pledge tomorrow if you want the game. Me, I'm looking forward to a game that's a homage to the science fantasy of the 50's, so I can argue *for* diaphanous clothing and exposed midriffs as proper space attire!

Campaign is live now

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/awakenrealms/nemesis-board-game/

Already funded and first few stretch goals smashed.

Had to drop my Hate pledge, can't really afford both and this one looks to be more my kinda game.

Man, it looks really good but I don't think I can swing it right now. But already up over $200k!

 RiTides wrote:
Man, it looks really good but I don't think I can swing it right now. But already up over $200k!

I don't know if I'll stick with it, but I pledged anyway to at least lock in my chance for the promo mini. Can always cancel the pledge later on if I need the money elsewhere.

ced1106 wrote:
Me, I'm looking forward to a game that's a homage to the science fantasy of the 50's, so I can argue *for* diaphanous clothing and exposed midriffs as proper space attire!

As a fairly vocal Kingdom Death fan, this was actually a bit of my problem with their pinup line. They justified it from the history, but then made basically no effort to do the retro thing. I think there are like a couple of them where I might shrug and accept it, but it pretty much all looks like modern fanservice. I could sure as hell back a minis line that really captured some of the really stylized stuff like Heavy Metal or Moebius's work. Retro without retro, though, is just dated.

Wow.. already blew through all of the initial stretch goals they had planned.. over $400k already in less than an hour.

Right, no resin option. I guess I'm not buying into anything until I see some good quality images of production models.