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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






 Niiai wrote:
Instead of 'getting good' in Dark Souls it is better to find a guide. Go to the undeaburgs, it is the newbie zone, don't fight skeletons, good starting classes are this and this, here are good weapons and be shure to buy keys, don't fight the black knights, drop attack the daemon boss etc.

All of that is smart, learn to parry is not a path to 'getting good', even though it is argueably the best skill in the game. Likewice finding good shortcuts while playing is much better then sitting at home memerising weapons and unit stats.


Knowing the rules is a good shortcut, your taking a shortcut by not picking up your book and spending time on every unit or action you do lol.


   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





Use cheat sheets (photocopied pages of rules summaries) for basic rules and your specific army.
If it's a friendly game either roll off for disagreements or play one way or the other and look them up after the game.
Don't measure every individual models movement.
Agree before game how terrain will be used (line of sight blocking, +1, +2 to cover when fully or partially within etc)
Don't quibble over 50/50 calls, allow the active player to decide.

I've been playing a while, my first model was a lead marine and my first White Dwarf was bound with staples 
   
Made in no
Liche Priest Hierophant





Bergen

 auticus wrote:
'Know the rules' is the same as saying 'Get good' when people want to give bad advice in Dark Souls.


Yeah - no.

Knowing the rules means you aren't spending a ton of time with your face in the rulebook. I find most of the slowdown in any of my games comes from repeatedly having to reference the rulebook or a codex to get stats. If you learn the rules and memorize your statline you are going to save a ton of time.

Saying "get good" is responding to someone stating "I can't beat Bobby G what do you do?"

Perhaps you don't find much worth in learning the rules and memorizing the stats in terms of speeding up the game, but I find that having played in six editions of 40k now that that is the keystone to speeding up games.


Of course knowin all the rules speeds up the game. That does not mean you needto study for it like an examn. There are a lot of other options that has been sugested that can be implemented to speed the game along, as well as learning people the rules. That does not mean 'learn the rules' is good advice, it is what you will do over time while you play 40k, instead of playing study group.

   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






If it takes more than 20 seconds to look up a rule, or to debate an interaction, I usually just make something up and get on with it - we can look up the proper rule after the game and get it right next time.
   
Made in us
Clousseau




 Niiai wrote:
 auticus wrote:
'Know the rules' is the same as saying 'Get good' when people want to give bad advice in Dark Souls.


Yeah - no.

Knowing the rules means you aren't spending a ton of time with your face in the rulebook. I find most of the slowdown in any of my games comes from repeatedly having to reference the rulebook or a codex to get stats. If you learn the rules and memorize your statline you are going to save a ton of time.

Saying "get good" is responding to someone stating "I can't beat Bobby G what do you do?"

Perhaps you don't find much worth in learning the rules and memorizing the stats in terms of speeding up the game, but I find that having played in six editions of 40k now that that is the keystone to speeding up games.


Of course knowin all the rules speeds up the game. That does not mean you needto study for it like an examn. There are a lot of other options that has been sugested that can be implemented to speed the game along, as well as learning people the rules. That does not mean 'learn the rules' is good advice, it is what you will do over time while you play 40k, instead of playing study group.


To each their own!

I will continue to stand by what I said. Ask me for tips on how to play faster? I will tell you over and over: learn your rules. Learn your codex. Learn your stats.
   
Made in us
Slaanesh Veteran Marine with Tentacles






Try using sticky notes or tabs to keep track of important pages so when you do have to use books it should take less time finding the info you need. Have both you and your opponent print out 2 copies your armies list on Battlescribe, that way you can look up each others stats without having to ask. As many others have said, there really is no substitution for knowing your army and its rules.
   
Made in no
Liche Priest Hierophant





Bergen

'Get good!'

   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





St. Louis, Missouri USA

 Niiai wrote:
 auticus wrote:
'Know the rules' is the same as saying 'Get good' when people want to give bad advice in Dark Souls.


Yeah - no.

Knowing the rules means you aren't spending a ton of time with your face in the rulebook. I find most of the slowdown in any of my games comes from repeatedly having to reference the rulebook or a codex to get stats. If you learn the rules and memorize your statline you are going to save a ton of time.

Saying "get good" is responding to someone stating "I can't beat Bobby G what do you do?"

Perhaps you don't find much worth in learning the rules and memorizing the stats in terms of speeding up the game, but I find that having played in six editions of 40k now that that is the keystone to speeding up games.


Of course knowin all the rules speeds up the game. That does not mean you needto study for it like an examn. There are a lot of other options that has been sugested that can be implemented to speed the game along, as well as learning people the rules. That does not mean 'learn the rules' is good advice, it is what you will do over time while you play 40k, instead of playing study group.
It's 16 pages of rules. That's it. Everything else is a special rule under each unit that the controlling player should be responsible to know. 16 pages! McDonald's employment applications are probably longer.

Other notes:
If someone isn't moving a model, then dice need to be rolling.
Use more than 1 color dice. You can roll a whole unit as one roll this way. There's less confusion blue = bolters, red = melta, etc. Stay consistent the entire game and you don't have to explain it every time.
No cell phones. The cat videos can wait. Focus on your plastic toy soldiers like an adult.
Don't squabble over every inch of measuring. I've found 8th edition rarely comes down to the fractional inch like 7th did.
A personal guideline I go by this this: Always give your opponent the benefit of the doubt. This puts yourself at a disadvantage, but then when you win you know you did it in the hardest way possible. Unless it's something obviously counter to the rules (any you should know them well enough to quote the rule without looking it up) then let it slide.

 
   
Made in ch
Legendary Dogfighter





RNAS Rockall



1. Spreadsheet with unit fluff name 'Captain Bendatheknees' unit type - 'Space Marine Captain' and general profile (Toughness, Wounds, save etc)
2. separate spreadsheet page with weapons profiles *that you're using* and Str/Ap/Type/Range - Trying to put them all together gets too messy
3. BOOK MARKS IN YOUR CODEX
4. BOOK MARKS IN YOUR RULE BOOK
5. PRINT THINGS
6. Bring 2 sizes of dice, one for rolling, one for marking
7. Don't use non d6s; the amount of time spent fiddling to get a non-cube to sit still on a model is not worth the bling value. Rows of small d6 is perfectly adequate, and in some cases doubles nicely as a profile bracket marker for tanks and so forth as it goes down in power for every dice you remove.

Bookmark wise, I find that folded adhesive labels work well as they're tough enough to take the weight of the codex pages.

Empra only knows why they dropped the old unit profile index from previous editions for the current one; it was actually quite useful.

Regarding the spreadsheet thing; I found entering it in by hand made me really remember what did what where. It also makes it much easier to play around with what you have by dragging blocks of unit (and points).

Attached is a simple ODS sheet that I use to keep track of my armies nowadays, with 3 columns to track the different points values for the various tiers I play at - you may only want to use the first two 'points' columns.
 Filename 8th_SOE_Sampler.ods [Disk] Download
 Description
 File size 19 Kbytes


Some people find the idea that other people can be happy offensive, and will prefer causing harm to self improvement.  
   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dreadnought




San Jose, CA

 deviantduck wrote:
[
Other notes:
If someone isn't moving a model, then dice need to be rolling.
Use more than 1 color dice. You can roll a whole unit as one roll this way. There's less confusion blue = bolters, red = melta, etc. Stay consistent the entire game and you don't have to explain it every time.
No cell phones. The cat videos can wait. Focus on your plastic toy soldiers like an adult.
.


Different colors of dice really helps.
NO CAT VIDEOS......EVER
   
Made in gb
Resentful Grot With a Plan




If you are only playing once a month, a good way to understand the rules more thoroughly is to watch Youtube battle reports (by people who do detailed reports with most dice rolling, not just brief summaries) when you have some spare time between games. This will not only help with fully understanding the main rules, but also help with showing you new and unfamiliar situations so that you don't have to waste time working out what to do during the game.

Aside from that, as others have said, not wasting time looking at the datasheets in the Codex is important! Having a separate single-page summary for the units you have is essential, at least for the profiles.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/18 18:22:51


 
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

 auticus wrote:
Know the rules.
Know the rules.
Know the rules.
Stop talking so much.
Know the rules.
Know what you're going to do when your turn starts.
Know the rules.
Dont take a bunch of smoke breaks.
Know the rules.
Know the rules.

And most importantly... know the rules.


This, mostly.

Don't waste time double checking rules and codexes, learn your army's profiles and rules by heart.

 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 greatbigtree wrote:
^^

Or just see who can yell, "Pew Pew!" the loudest, and then remove 2d6 wounds of your choice from the battlefield. Orks can yell "Dakka Dakka" instead, and a proper "Waaaugh!" treats your yell as 1.5 times louder than it really is.

Or just flip a coin after you put your models down. Whoever wins the flip gets first turn, and thus wins. :p


Actually his idea isn't that far off. Many modern to scifi games ignore to wound rolls against infantry on principle if you get hit you tend to be dead anyway unless your protective gear saves you.
   
Made in no
Longtime Dakkanaut






- make a cheat cheet.
no point in dragging along an entire codex when you can have all the unit stats on a single a4 page.
- 1 model in every unit is moved to precise distanse, the rest is just tossed up behind the first model.
- dont get picky on choosing what model to remove as a casualty. in the end they will all be removed anyway.
- less fluffy armies, more broken cheesy units.
from the comments in this forum, moust games in 8th dont last longer then turn 3 if you follow the comp meta.
- for any argument/debate, roll a d6, on 1-3 you are right, on 4-6 your opponent is right.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/19 10:03:29


darkswordminiatures.com
gamersgrass.com
Collects: Wild West Exodus, SW Armada/Legion. Adeptus Titanicus, Dust1947. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Not much to add to what others have said but I do think there's something else going on here beyond not knowing the rules too well. 5 hours is an unfathomable length of time for a small game to take. I think we really need more info about what's taking the time.
   
Made in gb
Committed Chaos Cult Marine






What is it that's taking so long? Looking up the rules? Horde armies?
   
Made in gb
Savage Khorne Berserker Biker





UK

Some ideas off the top of my head:

If you're taking a long time setting up and choosing missions, maybe decide these beforehand? If you're arranging a game by text message, you can say 'you okay with playing X mission on X board?'
Okay, it doesn't have that randomness, but will help speed up.
You could also speed up by having linked games with similar setups, so next week's game is the same as this week's but on a different table, so you don't reroll psychic powers or warlord traits (or whatever it is you do in 8th).

Use the same armies for several games - adding new units means looking up rules. Add new units one at a time so you don't slow the game down.

Set a time limit for turns. That's what tournaments often do. If games are taking 5 hours, then someone is being very slow. I have a friend who takes ages to move things or decide what to shoot, so I remind him in a friendly way that we don't have all night. I think he just gets lost in a train of thought.

You could also, if you have spare people hanging around that don't have anyone to play with, get them to play referee and look up rules disputes (can you look this up we resolve a different combat?), remind people to hurry up etc.

A 2v2 is a bad idea if you want a fast game - more people means more pausing, more discussion.

Games are also slower the more different units you have, because there is more discussion/explanation about what each one does. I realise different units make it interesting, but again, until you get better at playing in a slick manner, reducing the number of different units will speed up the game.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/19 16:32:32


pronouns: she/her
We're going to need more skulls - My blogspot
Quanar wrote:you were able to fit regular guardsmen in drop pods before the FAQ and they'd just come out as a sort of soup..
 
   
Made in gb
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan





Bristol, England

Not sure if it's been said yet but after havingg exchanged lists, possibly the day or two before roll any traits, spells, missions etc.
Not only will you have had time to know what each other is taking and learn each others rules but you'll also speed up deployment and the start up time.

Oli: Can I be an orc?
Everyone: No.
Oli: But it fits through the doors, Look! 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Slipspace wrote:
Not much to add to what others have said but I do think there's something else going on here beyond not knowing the rules too well. 5 hours is an unfathomable length of time for a small game to take. I think we really need more info about what's taking the time.


Maybe OP is still playing 2nd ed, that would explain it
   
 
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