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Blazinghand wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Side note question, since warp time happens in the psyker phase does that mean you can enjoy your warptime movement with in an inch and be in combat with out needing to charge

RAW this is incorrect. Unit subjected to Warptime moves "as if it were its Movement phase" with all attendant rules and restrictions.

"As if" is not the same as "actually the phase".

The rule in the BRB states "When you move a model in the Movement phase, it may not be moved within 1" of any enemy models." It doesn't matter if you move a model "as if" it were the phase, if it's not the actual movement phase, you get to move within 1".

If the rule had just said said "When you move a model" then you would be right.

This is why Overwatch can shoot characters who aren't the closest model.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Blazinghand wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Side note question, since warp time happens in the psyker phase does that mean you can enjoy your warptime movement with in an inch and be in combat with out needing to charge

RAW this is incorrect. Unit subjected to Warptime moves "as if it were its Movement phase" with all attendant rules and restrictions.

"As if" is not the same as "actually the phase".

The rule in the BRB states "When you move a model in the Movement phase, it may not be moved within 1" of any enemy models." It doesn't matter if you move a model "as if" it were the phase, if it's not the actual movement phase, you get to move within 1".

If the rule had just said said "When you move a model" then you would be right.

This is why Overwatch can shoot characters who aren't the closest model.

That's not true at all. You're not disallowed from shooting Characters, you just cannot choose them as a target:
A Character can only be chosen as a target in the Shooting phase if they are the closest visible enemy unit to the model that is shooting
Overwatch skips that step, otherwise you'd be able to shoot other units than the one charging you:
Each time a charge is declared against a unit, the target unit can immediately fire Overwatch at the would-be attacker.

And of course "as if it's the movement phase" means you have to follow the rules of the movement phase. You can't just skip the wound rolls during Overwatch. You can't ignore normal restrictions on your movement "during" Warptime.

What is the wording on Manta Strike? We'd need to see exactly what it says there to know if there is something there thatt overrides normal rules in the movement phase.

 doctortom wrote:
What is the wording on Manta Strike? We'd need to see exactly what it says there to know if there is something there thatt overrides normal rules in the movement phase.

Manta Strike: During deployment, you may set up a Commander in a Manta hold instead of placing them on the battlefield. At the end of any of your Movement phases, they can use a Manta strike to enter the fray – set them up anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9" from any enemy models.

Homing Beacon: A homing beacon may be used during your Movement phase by placing it within 1" of its unit. If there are any friendly homing beacons on the battlefield at the end of your Movement phase, one of your <SEPT> units that has been set up in a Manta hold can perform a low-altitude drop instead of a Manta strike. Set up the unit wholly within 6" of the homing beacon. The homing beacon then shorts out and is removed from the battlefield. Homing beacons are deactivated and removed from the battlefield if an enemy model ends a move within 9" of it.

As you can see, the low altitude drop has no restriction on how close you can be to the enemy, while the Manta Strike does.

Right, but per the brb you can not come within 1" of an enemy model during your movement phase, which this takes place during. Moving on from the board is still a movement, and must abide by the 1" from enemy rule.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Right, but per the brb you can not come within 1" of an enemy model during your movement phase, which this takes place during. Moving on from the board is still a movement, and must abide by the 1" from enemy rule.

That is not what the BRB says, like, at all.

I'll never understood the need some people have to butt into rules arguments without reading the rules.

Here is a direct quote:

BRB Page 177 wrote:All models in the same army are friendly models. Models controlled by an opposing player are enemy models. When you move a model in the Movement phase, it may not be moved within 1" of any enemy models.

You can't MOVE a model within 1", not a blanket "No model may ever come within 1" of an enemy model in the movement phase."

Setting up models is not moving models.

It is though, they are moved into the battle field.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If the model was not there, and it now exists in the movement phase it's has moved, meaning it can not be in one inch.

Abilities like pox walkers are allowed because it's not in the movement phase. Ergo not a movement.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm well aware of the rules there is no need to be condescensing or telling people they are "butt into" on a public forum.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
It is though, they are moved into the battle field.

No, it hasn't. It has been set up. Set Up and Moved are two different rules terms.

It's in the movement phase. The model moves from manta strike reserves onto the battlefield.

A model arriving from from reserves can not further move, meaning it has moved in set up. The act of setting the model up is it's move.

You can not do this within 1 inch and then begin combat in such a fasion.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
It's in the movement phase. The model moves from manta strike reserves onto the battlefield.

A model arriving from from reserves can not further move, meaning it has moved in set up. The act of setting the model up is it's move.

You can not do this within 1 inch and then begin combat in such a fasion.

Please provide a rules citation, because as far as I can see there is no such rule saying "set up" is the same as "move". However, your point about "further" saying it's moved is indeed correct.

Page 177 under reinforcement, "models arriving this way count as having moved in the movement phase for all rule pruposes" meaning they have moved because it says right there, they count as being moved in the movement phase and must follow the rule of, "can not move with in one inch of an enemy model"

They arrived as reinforcements, they moved.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 doctortom wrote:
What is the wording on Manta Strike? We'd need to see exactly what it says there to know if there is something there thatt overrides normal rules in the movement phase.

Manta Strike: During deployment, you may set up a Commander in a Manta hold instead of placing them on the battlefield. At the end of any of your Movement phases, they can use a Manta strike to enter the fray – set them up anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9" from any enemy models.

Homing Beacon: A homing beacon may be used during your Movement phase by placing it within 1" of its unit. If there are any friendly homing beacons on the battlefield at the end of your Movement phase, one of your <SEPT> units that has been set up in a Manta hold can perform a low-altitude drop instead of a Manta strike. Set up the unit wholly within 6" of the homing beacon. The homing beacon then shorts out and is removed from the battlefield. Homing beacons are deactivated and removed from the battlefield if an enemy model ends a move within 9" of it.

As you can see, the low altitude drop has no restriction on how close you can be to the enemy, while the Manta Strike does.

Thank you for posting the rules.

It doesn't look like there's anything in Homing Beacon that specifically states it overrides the prohibitions against moving within 1" of an enemy unit. As Backspacehacker points out, the models count as having moved for all rules purposes, so that should include not having been able to move within 1" of an enemy unit.

Exactly which means, no dropping your guys into combat. They would need to be 1 inch out.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Page 177 under reinforcement, "models arriving this way count as having moved in the movement phase for all rule pruposes" meaning they have moved because it says right there, they count as being moved in the movement phase and must follow the rule of, "can not move with in one inch of an enemy model"

They arrived as reinforcements, they moved.

And to add further to this, Low Altitude Drop is an alternative enter-as-reinforcement (I won't use 'enter from reserves' because someone here will try to red herring this discussion with "there is no such thing as reserves like in 7th ed!!) in lieu of a Manta Strike.

Low Altitude Drop is a special type of enter-as-reinforcement mid-battle set up onto battlefield with alternate restrictions, the restrictions being - it must be set up within 6" of the homing beacon rather than the typical "anywhere in the battlefield more than 9" away from enemy model" restriction.