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 JohnHwangDD wrote:

terrainsubs wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
What happens when a subscribing store goes bankrupt and closes?

Same risk as any other retail supplier, but with the clawback that items on loan are easy to identify and claim from those who handle a forclosure. Creditors will have no legal right to the hire companies terrain items.

Its a peperwork issue, and an unscheduled collection, and a loss of a customer, but its no actual liability, unlike creditors who supplied money for stock.

This is exactly correct and is spelled out plainly in the rental agreement. I simply get the terrain back and hope the retailer has more fortune in the future.

Really? Because I've seen a game store that went bankrupt and got evicted... Everything ended up on the street.

Everything got picked up by customers in the know, so you wouldn't be getting jack back. Being bankrupt, the store would be judgement proof, so good luck having that agreement enforced.

This can happen with gakky forclosures, but there has to be a legal process before you can do that.
I can envision a scenario where a store owner doesnt come clean about ongoing legal ramifications of failures, but everything we do in life has some degree of risk.

There may be a case to answer if a forclosure dumps items known to belong to a third party on the street. The store may be judgement proof after bankruptcy, but those handling the forclosure are not.

WHat about if I just wanted to buy a terrain set? Could that be an option? How much would it cost to keep a full set that you liked?

M1keyc wrote:
WHat about if I just wanted to buy a terrain set? Could that be an option? How much would it cost to keep a full set that you liked?

Right now, I don't really want to get into the terrain commission space. From my perspective, that is like selling the cow instead of the milk. I won't totally rule it out in the future, but I want to focus my energy on the subscription model. Time spent doing one-off commissions is time I'd rather spend on projects for my subscribers.

I suspect that for some models you will find subscribers that would like an option to buy favorite pieces, at least if the service works as planned. (Their wanting to keep items is a good thing.)

Maybe institute a 'Rent to Own' for items that a subscriber wants to keep for a while.

The Auld Grump

Hey all,

I finally was able to take some time out to update this post with pictures of another board. This one uses the new GW Sector Mechanicus stuff and is really a lot of fun to play on.

I am currently booked solid on customers until the end of next month, but if you know of any stores that may be interested in signing up, please let me know!

For more info, check out the website: https://www.terrainsubs.com/

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
I suspect that for some models you will find subscribers that would like an option to buy favorite pieces, at least if the service works as planned. (Their wanting to keep items is a good thing.)

Maybe institute a 'Rent to Own' for items that a subscriber wants to keep for a while.

The Auld Grump

On a related note, stuff will also go missing. The odd piece of various size. Some will be because someone liked a specific piece and some will be because they forgot to pack it/it got misplaced/lost/stolen/etc.

You'll need a contingency in place for when (not if) this happens, along with mutually agreed "replacement values" that wil in turn need to be varied for different terrain items.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

terrainsubs wrote:
Hey all,

I finally was able to take some time out to update this post with pictures of another board. This one uses the new GW Sector Mechanicus stuff and is really a lot of fun to play on.

I am currently booked solid on customers until the end of next month, but if you know of any stores that may be interested in signing up, please let me know!

For more info, check out the website: https://www.terrainsubs.com/

It looks fantastic. It's also a perfect example of the type of terrain that WILL come back with "missing" items.

What happens if people walk off with items?

What happens if it gets lost in the post?

What happens if you get hit by a bus on the way to the post office?

What happens if the Yellowstone Supervolcano blows up?

What happens if the warp is real and Abaddon invades on his fourteenth black crusade, and we all end up in eternal torture on a warp world in servitude to a mad god?



Funny how people trying to create an idea and run a small business are constantly dragged down by well meaning people.

I like the idea and hope it's a success for you. The terrain looks great.

Actually stuff like "what happens if items gets lost?" are very valid questions for anybody trying to do business. It's one thing doing terrain for fun and loaning for friends. Another if you are planning to do _profitable_ business from it.

Of course if being unprofitable is no concern then whatever Otherwise you need to figure out how to do and _would those turn it into unprofitable_. If it's slightly profitable as long as things go smoothly but becomes unprofitable when something gets lost(fairly realistic scenario. People aren't all that honest...) it's not that good business model. Unless you have factored in without it harming profitably(ie wannabe customers don't get turned off by fees you need to pay if if something is stolen from your store or from simply high fees when you factor in replacement buffer to your prices).

Similarly would be very good idea to check laws and custom practices in terms of store going down. Paper doesn't help much if in practice that still results in terrain vanishing.

 Silentz wrote:
What happens if it gets lost in the post?

What happens if you get hit by a bus on the way to the post office.

He will need to have insurance and documentation of an independent appraisal as to the item's value in order to collect on it.

Similarly for damage, which evidence that it wasn't damaged prior to shipment *and* proof that it was packed properly.

If he gets hit by a bus, it's all moot.

 Silentz wrote:
What happens if it gets lost in the post?

What happens if you get hit by a bus on the way to the post office?

What happens if the Yellowstone Supervolcano blows up?

What happens if the warp is real and Abaddon invades on his fourteenth black crusade, and we all end up in eternal torture on a warp world in servitude to a mad god?



Funny how people trying to create an idea and run a small business are constantly dragged down by well meaning people.

I like the idea and hope it's a success for you. The terrain looks great.

I take it you've never owned your own business? These are real concerns they should consider. Unless certain issues are addressed in the terms, he's going to be stuck trying to settle this in small claims court. The people using the rented toys aren't even the ones paying for them, so there's going to be a lot of broken bits. "I'm sure it will be fine" is strategy asking for trouble.

Tables do look great! No one is wishing him ill, just saying be prepared.

 Silentz wrote:
What happens if it gets lost in the post?

What happens if you get hit by a bus on the way to the post office?
What happens if the Yellowstone Supervolcano blows up?
What happens if the warp is real and Abaddon invades on his fourteenth black crusade, and we all end up in eternal torture on a warp world in servitude to a mad god?

Funny how people trying to create an idea and run a small business are constantly dragged down by well meaning people.
I like the idea and hope it's a success for you. The terrain looks great.

Funny how cheerleaders add nothing. Why not just mindlessly encourage and throw in some cartoonish "potential situations" to try and negate issues that will be very real? It's not your money at risk of course, so ultimately you lose nothing.


My comments that some of his terrain elements will go missing/be lost/forgotten is accurate and something that he needs to take into account.

Lost in the post is also a reasonable one, that would need to be covered by postal insurance. Because gak does indeed get lost in the post. I've had a BlightWar box and a Chapter Approved 2017 go missing in the post over the last year. I was pretty upset about both but the vendor took it in stride (I buy a LOT from him, so he knows I'm not BSing if I say something is missing or hasn't arrived). Why would he take it in stride, though? Because it happens. Therefore, insured/tracked is the only way to go with such parcels, which I am sure OP already has in his plan.

Similarly, pointing out that individual items from such large sets will go missing is also something that he needs to take into account for and contingency plan for when it happens. It's not dragging an idea down, and if you knew anything about running a business, you'd know that you do need for plan in advance for when gak happens. Because gak very much happens.

Wasn't a lot of this "what if" stuff already covered by the OP in this post?

terrainsubs wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
What happens when a subscribing store goes bankrupt and closes?

Same risk as any other retail supplier, but with the clawback that items on loan are easy to identify and claim from those who handle a forclosure. Creditors will have no legal right to the hire companies terrain items.

Its a peperwork issue, and an unscheduled collection, and a loss of a customer, but its no actual liability, unlike creditors who supplied money for stock.

This is exactly correct and is spelled out plainly in the rental agreement. I simply get the terrain back and hope the retailer has more fortune in the future.

There is a rental agreement the store signs. If pieces are missing, or a box gets lost in the mail, I am sure those mishaps are covered in the rental agreement.

And as before, good luck enforcing any agreement against a bankrupt store.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
And as before, good luck enforcing any agreement against a bankrupt store.

Which has nothing at all to do with the discussion at hand regarding stolen or misplaced terrain.

We all read your comment about bankruptcy on page 1 and the OP addressed your concerns, so not sure what your point is?

Contracts only go so far, and enforcing them is the hard part.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
And as before, good luck enforcing any agreement against a bankrupt store.

Which has nothing at all to do with the discussion at hand regarding stolen or misplaced terrain.

We all read your comment about bankruptcy on page 1 and the OP addressed your concerns, so not sure what your point is?

Contracts are generally meaningless, the only thing that matters is the ability to enforce the provisions. As stated, good luck getting money from a broke store.

 Kirasu wrote:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
And as before, good luck enforcing any agreement against a bankrupt store.

Which has nothing at all to do with the discussion at hand regarding stolen or misplaced terrain.

We all read your comment about bankruptcy on page 1 and the OP addressed your concerns, so not sure what your point is?

Contracts are generally meaningless, the only thing that matters is the ability to enforce the provisions. As stated, good luck getting money from a broke store.

The hypothetical store in question is not broke, the discussion is centering around a store failing to return complete sets of terrain.

For feth sake at least read the conversation before derailing it with non-relevant information.

Stores pay for missing pieces of terrain. It is their responsibility to keep an eye on the terrain while it is in their store. If I have a customer that consistently does a poor job of returning every item, I will stop.doing business with them.

Again, I am not simply letting every store sign up. If I don't feel the owner is responsible or if we don't have a good working relationship, I won't do business with them.

While I appreciate all of the feedback on the business model, please know that I have put a great deal.of thought into all of these issues before deciding to start the company. I'm sure there will be stumbling blocks along the way, but that is business (and life).

As I said before, risk is part of any business venture. I feel the risks here are worth it because I think great terrain can help FLGSs thrive, grow the hobby, and make the game better for everyone.