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 Elbows wrote:
Actually they're arguably bigger/stronger now than they have been in the past. There is far more competition in existence, but there are almost zero companies on the GW level for miniature wargaming.

There are other large gaming companies (Days of Wonder, Fantasy Flight, Wizkids, etc.), but for predominantly miniatures wargaming, GW is still the massive leader. Whether they deserve to be is an entirely different discussion.

3 years ago I could walk into any flgs is town and see GW games played (at about 8 different stores) now its GW, nowhere else. this is a major metro area and the largest in the region, there is 1 GW and it may or may not last the year. anectdotal sure, but its ground truth here that GW is nowhere near what it once was.

Combine that with what it looks like we know about their performance over the last year or so, and that would suggest a smaller share of a larger pie. Not a bad position for them at all, right now.

I would buy back in big time if they brought back the Old World.

Considering the huge success of games like Total War Warhammer, Vermintide, and Mordheim, it really seems to me like leaving money on the table by keeping it locked away.

And it won't impede on AoS, because it is a ranked battle game, something they are currently lacking.

Looks like BoLS has been reading this

40K Op-Ed: What Happens When GW Grants ALL Our Wishes? http://bit.ly/2BX1phQ

Gaaaaah!!!!

I hate BoLS!

From another thread ...

There's still the Sensei and Illuminati to be retconned back in.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

See, I’ve been around a while in the Hobby and indeed online. And all the stuff we’re seeing to date has been a guaranteed crowd pleaser (even if they’re not to your personal taste. I’m using broad brush strokes here). Literal ‘idiot’ level decisions to get good will sparking,

Let’s have a very quick roll call.

Primarchs In 40k? Check.
Chaos Legions getting individual Codecies? Check.
Necromunda? Check.
Blood Bowl? Check.
Adeptus Titanicus? Check in priniciple!
Custodes? Check.
Regular FAQs? Check.
Far quicker release schedule? Check.
Periodic rules errata, properly published? Check.

I'm not sure everything there is a guaranteed crowed pleaser. Custodes, in particular, feel unnecessary, and the specialist games are a risk, as they are competing less on inertia/lore, but on game play. Bloodbowl might be fun, but I rarely see it played while Guild Ball is doing all right.

the biggest counter to your argument is AOS, both in the general sense that AOS completely overhauled their original game, but in the specific armies that GW is releasing.

But what’s actually left once this wave of goodwill recedes? Fan as I am, it’s bound to happen sooner or later? What long wanted things can they pull out their bahookie for a quick game of ‘Look At The Monkey’? All the low hanging fruit seems to be gone, barring deeper delving into the Specialist Games bin?

Well, they always have plastic sisters to release for a quick buck. Very few armies have gotten models for 8th edition, which means there is some room for some of the ranges. And they haven't been shy about adding factions. 6th/7th editions were actually one of the more fertile periods for GW for adding factions, second only to 3rd (Dark Eldar, Tau, Necrons) and Rogue Trader itself. 6th/7th added Genestealer cults, Admech, harlequins, ynnari, and tempestus scions. While SCions have been retconned back into IG, the others stand as separate armies. 8th is also creating dedicated codices for Death Guard and 1k Sons, elevating them to the same place as the Space Wolves/Dark Angels/Blood Angels major chapters.

I think the problem isn't that GW is selling stuff they know has a fan base, it's that it's hard to tell how "real" that fan base is. Plenty of people claim to want necromunda, but is it selling? Are people playing campaigns? Have we all remembered that skirmish games with small model counts also usually require a metric ton of terrain?

I think GW has plenty of ideas and creativity to keep momentum going.

An admech transport and flyer is something that GW should probably be planning and if FoC is going to become plastic instead of just going on the 40k admech FW page that could take up to a year if not more. Apart from that, Ynari could get an exclusive model range along with some older kits being changed to fit in with new lore (Ghazghkull getting a bigger model and more powerful rules) and some that have already been mentioned like guard and aspect warriors.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
I'm thinking that a lot of these things that 'people have been begging for' aren't doing so well, and that maybe the 'demand' is more talk than buying power. The Necromunda stuff sold very little in my area, and traveling about- I saw most of it rotting on the shelf and collecting dust.

Kinda funny how many people pissed and moaned about Primaris Marines and Custodes, and these are moving but these 'totally awesome' things like Necromunda and Blood Bowl just... aren't.

Keeping this in mind, I'm not sure 'Epic' and 'Gothic' are going to do well.

IMHO, I just like some of the games that incorporate existing models from 40k and AoS.

Warhammer Quest was awesome, Silver Tower being especially genius. Would love to see a 40k version.

I'd also love to see Inquisitor get a reboot, but using standard model scale.

Shadow War was pretty okay, some rules were dumb but could be houseruled away. Would like to see a version that incorporates more unit types.

Also, would love to see a small-scale 'squad' game from Horus Heresy.

I'm going to guess that is your area. In mine they can't keep this stuff on the shelves at any of the 4+ local stores.

 Phobos wrote:
I would buy back in big time if they brought back the Old World.

Considering the huge success of games like Total War Warhammer, Vermintide, and Mordheim, it really seems to me like leaving money on the table by keeping it locked away.

And it won't impede on AoS, because it is a ranked battle game, something they are currently lacking.

It absolutely will impede, it's a fantasy setting.

Those wanting to stay in the past can play with the other three people playing 9th age, or the growing Kings Of War community, it seems to be doing well.

Yeah, same fantasy universe too unlike LotR so they will cross-promote with AoS and make IP adjustments that'll make the Old World the "Aold Wyrld" if it returned.

Anyway, on topic, I see GW being fine on all fronts. 40k and AoS are both amazing games and epic settings that can have countless spin-offs made from them, expansions added and races updated or introduced.

So even when the nostalgia barrel runs low they still will be going strong.

I also remember Hewitt in his AMA being asked about Mordheim. He said he saw their to-do list before he left and that Mordheim was so far on the bottom of things they wanted to do it'd take about a decade to get to it.

So GW aren't going to be lacking for ideas anytime soon.

Well they have two more chaos primarchs at least and an unspecified number of loyalist primarchs to do.
They have Sisters, Eldar Exodites, Arbites, great coat guard, dark mechanicum, world eaters, emperors children, kroot and co, a new Xenos faction or two, Eldar aspect warriors revamp, Ork cult of speed and imperial agents to do for 40k. That is just stuff that is commonly requested. They have the plastic thunderhawk and Titan of course.
In AOS they have two or three death factions, two or three Aelf factions, some normal humans, skaven, grots of various kinds and any number of crazy Kharadron like factions to do.
Shadespire is just getting started and they could do something similar for 40k.
The specialist studio has mordheim, bfg, Adeptus titanicus possibly leading into a wider epic range, inquisitor or inq28, gorkamorka, warmaster etc.
If the Heresy well runs dry for forgeworld they could bring back the old world as a historical game set during the war of the beard with a limited number of factions.
That is a solid 10 or 15 years of oft requested stuff.
I don’t think gw is going to run out of fan favourite stuff any time soon.

For all the nostalgia releases I'm not seeing much chat or gaming about it. My local scene had a flurry of new 40K and a few people buying blood bowl, but quickly went back to other things like guild ball.

I'd buy the crap out of Epic, as it's a much better scale for the game, so I cnan't see that happening outside of some titan boxed games.

I just hope that whatever games they bring out, it will be possible to cross play them with certain models.

I'd like to see Necromunda gangs and PDF forces defending their hives against Dark Eldar. Arbites should be able to play both 40K and Necromunda.
Space Hulk with the existing 40k armies, but with Space Hulk rules

Daemons that work in both AoS and 40K is a good idea and I'd like to see more of that. Even Warhammer Quest or Space Crusade could come back too.

As to how much they have in the tank... There are plenty of games for them to bring out (as stated above) and even then they can go into specialist games again, like the 2000AD ones (Chainsaw Warrior, Block Mania/Wars anyone). Not to mention the multiple possibilities of "new" games not based in existing IP.

And even then they can milk their IP in video games where it's the publishers and the game designers take the monetary risk. Games Workshop's video games portfolio is as mottled as say the Star Trek games (opinion of course). There's a few that stand out, but there's so many weird and wonderful mini games that just use the IP and visuals that are clones of other games.

TarkinLarson wrote:

Space Hulk with the existing 40k armies, but with Space Hulk rules

The other suggestions are OK, but I would suggest you just get on and do it yourself rather than waiting. As for this, though, I'd be against it. Space Hulk is designed around Terminators vs Genestealers - one slow-moving force with ranged firepower, under time pressure with decreasing resources, vs the fast-moving, contact-only attacks with unlimited resources. Adding Hybrids, regular Space Marines, etc, just dilutes that IMO and makes the game less fun. It's not designed to be a 40k tunnel-fighting game (if you want that, just play 40k on Space Hulk tiles), it's got a very specific focus.

There were rules published for Grey Knights, Space Marines, Imperial Guard, Eldar Aspect Warriors and Harlequins and Chaos Terminators for 1st edition, in White Dwarf and the Citadel Journal. 1st edition is sufficiently close to 3rd/4th edition that they're easily ported across. However, I feel that simply replacing the models and keeping the rules the same is the best way to go. Astra Militarum vs Khornate cultists in the underhive, Deathwatch vs feral Orks in dense forests, Grey Knights vs bloodletters in an underground Chaos temple complex, Eldar Guardians vs Hormagaunts in the halls of Iyanden, Skitarii vs Necrons (if the latter have any melee-only troops) on a tombworld, would all work using the rules as-is, IMO.

Or go back to the inspiration and use USCMC and Alien miniatures (the ones from Prodos, or there's various alternatives), or a step before that - US Army or Marines vs VC in tunnels in South Vietnam. Same rules would work.

Though I'm new in the game. Joining as a Skaven player.

I do think that in Age of Sigmar the Skaven being devided unles you run a Chaos Allegiance army that it is a bit od atm. Skaven are unique in the fantasy genre though and I hope to see some things being pushed for them after Nurgle and Death seem to get some love.

Clanrats not being part of the other clans for example seem a bit wrong. Only Skryre and Pestilence having battalions for its benefits. Perhaps some new things will come for the other skaven clans?

I did hear from somewhere that during the end times they pushed on the skaven with their book and it didn't do so well? I do also have a 7th edition book now that I think of it...

Well in the least we get a new warlord in Shadespire I'm aiming to use in AOS.

Still Vermintide did pretty alright. Let alone that skaven seem to get people hyped all around if they tend to come in warhammer games. The DLC for warhammer Total war 2 seemed to have hyped up people well.

What do you think?

I think AOS remains a skirmish game where maneuver means even less than it did in 8E. That makes it irrelevant to me, beyond an occasional source of new minis for conersion or use in WFB.

 Vulcan wrote:
I think AOS remains a skirmish game where maneuver means even less than it did in 8E. That makes it irrelevant to me, beyond an occasional source of new minis for conersion or use in WFB.

WHFRP? there are some damn good options for that as well

Thebiggesthat wrote:

 Phobos wrote:
I would buy back in big time if they brought back the Old World.

Considering the huge success of games like Total War Warhammer, Vermintide, and Mordheim, it really seems to me like leaving money on the table by keeping it locked away.

And it won't impede on AoS, because it is a ranked battle game, something they are currently lacking.

It absolutely will impede, it's a fantasy setting.

Those wanting to stay in the past can play with the other three people playing 9th age, or the growing Kings Of War community, it seems to be doing well.

I think that they could (should) bring back Warmaster as their only Old World minis game. It wouldn't tread on the toes of AoS, and would probably tie in to total war etc better than actual WHFB.

That said, I think it's far more likely that they bring back Mordheim, as it's a pretty self-contained setting anyway.

Well after 3rd dropped and GW decided the buyers were simple as monkeys and they kept changing the 'new cool toy' to get your cash.

Example: we are done with Tau (spend all your money) Now we release this cool new Vampire Count army (spend your money) in 3 months we will focus on new [insert army] etc.

So if you were the army they did not focus on and you decided to not be the monkey running after the new hot toy they were shoving down your throat...you got bored.
Boredom = walking away from the hobby.

But hey with things like squatting they figured 'to hell with our older player base' let them get married and have kids and leave....we will find new teenagers with mommy's allowances to buy that $50 tank next week.

THAT ATTITUDE was the cancer that caught up with them.

What they needed to do instead of flashing the new glitz every 3 montsh was spend 6 months to a year focusing on ....Say FAST ATTACK units. For every freakin race...a new model or new rules, with WD to publish how to use them or defeat it.....Now all those old timers need to buy that one new bike unit for their army....and paint it. Awesome.
Next season its all about Heavy Support....bang more money from EVERY player for EVERY army they own.....

Lesson learned...
Keep your current base
Motivate the base to get these add-ons
Don't treat them as disposable.

This is pretty much 101 merchandizing for idiots that old GW thought they could reinvent the wheel by playing monkey in the middle with the base.

keep in mind, we talk about Nostalgia, but it's not JUST Nostaliga GW is tapping into but also Black Library. GW and BL seem to be operating in much closer synch then they where when I started 40k. I'd be suprised if Eisenhorn was the last black novel character given mini treatment.

I'd like to think I'm one of GW's toughest critics, but lately they have just been on the ball. 8th ed is fun, the meta is completely turned around, its anyones game right now.

rrll wrote:
I'd like to think I'm one of GW's toughest critics

You must be new here.

 -Loki- wrote:

rrll wrote:
I'd like to think I'm one of GW's toughest critics

You must be new here.

there IS a differance between being a critic and being an irrational hater I suppose

Clearly there is.

But in the interest of keeping this on topic, and polite, let's move on.

Why do people keep forgetting that the current 40k release schedule is an anomoly to get the codexes updated to 8th edition.

Once everyone has their books we'll be back to two or three books a year.