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Made in us
[DCM]
Custodes Shield Captain





Where ever the Emperor needs his eyes

Understandable considering the sheer number of ships in game now.


For the talk of the 152mm guns on the British Cruisers and their armor pennetration, wont they be able to pen some of the thicker armor at ranges under 10km because of their high initial shell velocity? Much like how the Duca d'Aosta's 152mm guns will pen the turrets of the Bismark and Tirpitz at closer ranges due to its velocity of 1000 m/s
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

I tested the Minotaur against the Tirpitz's upper belt yesterday and I consistently bounced at 500m, I don't think you'll get more point-blank than that. The Duca has ridiculously high muzzle velocity (and thus pen) so it might do it, but I don't think the RN 6" guns can do that. You don't have to though, superstructure is more than enough.

For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Custodes Shield Captain





Where ever the Emperor needs his eyes

True and I've seen those Minotaur's eat through BBs by hitting the super structure.

Even with the Duca's velocity I think the belt would be too thick. Turret armor not so much as long as you arent hitting them in the front.
   
Made in gb
Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch





avoiding the lorax on Crion

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
True and I've seen those Minotaur's eat through BBs by hitting the super structure.

Even with the Duca's velocity I think the belt would be too thick. Turret armor not so much as long as you arent hitting them in the front.


Hit the turret faces your gonna be in "lol no" teritory. There's no way your going through the main facing however if you can maybe land roof hits, or even hit some of the lesser secondary guns. You can still find things to disable.

Also if you can strip the AA on later ships, a Carrier captain can be effective with that they have left and maybe land a killing blow via torpedo bombers or dive bombers if there weak ernough.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/09 18:49:55


Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.

"May the odds be ever in your favour"

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.

FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.  
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Custodes Shield Captain





Where ever the Emperor needs his eyes

Im speaking from experience with the Duca's guns penning the sides and flanks of the turrets. I dont shoot at the fronts of them, like I said, the shells wont go through the front.
   
Made in gb
Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch





avoiding the lorax on Crion

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Im speaking from experience with the Duca's guns penning the sides and flanks of the turrets. I dont shoot at the fronts of them, like I said, the shells wont go through the front.


Aye, and we'll, a battleship with a downed turret Is on, 66% efficiency.

Though I'm rarely able to target individual turrets, I'm just glad I'm hitting ships for now
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Custodes Shield Captain





Where ever the Emperor needs his eyes

You have to be stupid close to really be able to target them. But yeah, just hitting things is a good focus. I feel like I got to used to particular gun ballistics because it generally takes a little time to get the ranging down.

What reticle setting do you use? Fixed timing or the one that adjusts as you zoom?
   
Made in gb
Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch





avoiding the lorax on Crion

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
You have to be stupid close to really be able to target them. But yeah, just hitting things is a good focus. I feel like I got to used to particular gun ballistics because it generally takes a little time to get the ranging down.

What reticle setting do you use? Fixed timing or the one that adjusts as you zoom?


Il have a look


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 jhe90 wrote:
 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
You have to be stupid close to really be able to target them. But yeah, just hitting things is a good focus. I feel like I got to used to particular gun ballistics because it generally takes a little time to get the ranging down.

What reticle setting do you use? Fixed timing or the one that adjusts as you zoom?


Il have a look


Currently static.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/09 20:27:32


Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.

"May the odds be ever in your favour"

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.

FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.  
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Custodes Shield Captain





Where ever the Emperor needs his eyes

The one that adjusts could help you land more shots. It's helped me get used to lead timing quite a bit.
   
Made in gb
Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch





avoiding the lorax on Crion

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
The one that adjusts could help you land more shots. It's helped me get used to lead timing quite a bit.


Agh, thanks, il switch to that and try that instead.

I'm perry much a storm trooper still so anything help.
My manoovering and shot evasion is finaly starting to return at least

Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.

"May the odds be ever in your favour"

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.

FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.  
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Custodes Shield Captain





Where ever the Emperor needs his eyes

That's good, surviving is usually what will keep you able to hit more often. Change course, alter speed. It likely wont help prefectly, but for lead times, against alot of ships I found at close - med range with the Brits you want a 4-6 second lead time and for at distance 10-12 seconds

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/09 22:13:28


 
   
Made in gb
Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller





Colne, England

Eurgh, moved to the Shetland islands in time for the French BB update and haven't had anything but cafe wifi for a week and a bit.

Going to have to get used to the various gun firing speeds again

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/10 00:35:35


Brb learning to play.

 
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

After spending five or six games yelling at my walls in frustration over my teammate's positioning, I thought I'd make a post and open some discussion about proper positioning in (primarily) battleships. Note that, unlike previous posts that contain discussions on objective game mechanics, the following is more my musings and thoughts on proper positioning in a battleship and how strategy in the game works in general, so I might be missing a bunch of stuff that I haven't thought of.

Spoiler:


I'll use the following screenshot to start off the discussion. I just played this game and what should have been a fairly comfortable win for us ended up becoming a rather tight game after such highlights as our Gascogne losing a 1v1 brawl against a Des Moines at 5km range when at full HP and our Großer Kurfürst eating about seventyfour bajilion torpedoes from a DD that we'd constantly spotted for five minutes.



In this screenshot I'm playing the Japanese T10 Battleship Yamato. This is roughly 8 minutes into the game and I'm alredy at 25k HP because I've been sitting around A to support my DDs and keep the enemy Des Moines away. The below screenshot illustrates why the island I'm hugging gives me a decent position:



The red dot is where I've sat for most of the game, angling towards the island in the northwest part of B. The enemy Kurfürst at C hasn't been able to shoot at me at all because the large island in B's lower right corner has blocked his shots and the Yamato and Alabama have had my angled sides to shoot at (nose-tanking an enemy Yamato is, of course, dangerous, but I didn't have much choice, and I could punish him back just as hard as he could punish me). The Des Moines north of A hasn't been able to push in and help the enemy Gearing kill our DDs at A; he'd be able to radar A even from behind the islands if he was careful, but that'd still leave his Gearing in a 2v1 against a Fletcher and a Yugumo, as well as my 460mm guns.

"But wait, you odobenian madman, what about the République?" you might ask. "Wouldn't he just flank you and shove his 430mm baguettes into your citadel?" He sure would; that's why I'm no longer in the indicated spot on the map, but have backed up and angled toward the République to stop him from doing just that. I'm in a worse position because I cannot cover B, but as we don't have much chance of pushing that at the moment anyway it doesn't really matter that much. I can still fire on the République and I'm still zoning the Des Moines, as if he opens fire I can fire back and introduce him to glorious Japanese AP rounds. Once the République had retreated to north of A I could move back into my old position and angle towards both him and the other BBs.

What you might notice from the screenshot, however, is how... questionable... my team's position is. Ibuki and Udaloi are the remnants of what we had over at C, running from the enemy, so they can't really be blamed too much. North Carolina likewise doesn't have too awkward of a position, being angled towards the enemy battleships while providing the Ibuki and Udaloi with some 406mm Freedom Shells. The Fletcher and Yugumo really should have been pushing into B sooner. They're not doing much just sitting around in A, and we know that they can't get radared by the Des Moines because we've just seen him up north.

What really, REALLY made this game hard to win, however, was the genius trio pushing up the 1 line.



Again, this is 8 minutes into the game and these three geniuses have full HP. They moved along the I line at the start of the game until they reached the 1 line and then turned north. While the 2 DDs and I pushed in to claim A, these proud representatives of negative BB stereotypes did nothing of value whatsoever. While I sat at A to keep the Des Moines out and traded shots with half the enemy team. The Montana at least realized how completely useless he was being and started turning into the A cap instead of following his potato allies further north when I took this screenshot. The Kurfürst and Gascogne spent the rest of the game pushing north to catch up to the République, which didn't happen because I shot him to tiny pieces from my much superior position. Bereft of their BB prize they instead decided to chase the Des Moines around up there. The Gearing swooped in and hit enough torpedoes on the Kurfürst despite our Yugumo keeping him spotted on and off that the Kurfürst went from 95% to 0 in one fell swoop, and the Gascogne gave the Des Moines full broadside to get all his guns to bear and quickly found out why the Des Moines' AP rounds are classified as "super-heavy" as they Citadelled him repeatedly until he exploded. Fortunately this took long enough that I could sink the Yamato and push up around my island into B to link up with the North Carolina and take down the enemy Kurfürst and Neptune, who had pushed into B, while the Ibuki and the Udaloi finished the Yugumo and Roon.

If the three geniuses had pushed with me into A at the start of the game instead of meandering off on their own the enemy Gearing would have died there and then; he got out of A with around 5k HP at the start of the game, another 3 BBs shooting at him would've left him sunk straight away. We could then have done a 4-BB push into B and taken up a completely dominant map position, forcing the enemy to push into us if they wanted to take the caps and win. We wouldn't have had to fear torpedoes from the enemy Gearing and the Des Moines and République would have been unable to flank us because our DDs would have had free reign to run around up there.

In general though, in BBs I like to try to set up positions nearer the center of the map where I can cover more area and be a threat to more enemy ships. Pushing out to one edge of the map means you're utterly predictable, can't adapt to sudden changes in enemy positions and aren't contributing much to the team. This obviously doesn't mean to charge in like a complete madman, but pushing up closer in a BB means that the emeny Cruisers can't harass your DDs nearly as much, meaning you get caps and thus get a better chance of winning. The problem is, of course, that you're more exposed to enemy return fire, which doesn't matter if your team actually pushes up with you. With your entire team pushed up closer to capture points you can apply pressure to the caps and use your team's full firepower to punish enemy attempts at pushing you. If, however, you get geniuses like the 3 BBs above you risk being focussed down by a superior enemy force. In short, the good positions are good assuming your team isn't completely clueless.

Anyone else got any thoughts on positioning?

For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Custodes Shield Captain





Where ever the Emperor needs his eyes

My positioning usually isnt always great, I try to see what is happening with the team, but almost always end up in too aggressive of a position, a symptom I blame fully on being way too accustomed to German BBs needing to get in.

Alternatively I end up on the flank that has one other ship and trying to do a holding action to prevent the inevitable push, occasionally that flank is abandoned by the enemy too and it allows me to get my ship (usually one of the Twins) behind them.

I have limited games though in T10 because of things you pointed out, the BB positioning. Often I find that rather than being too aggressive they sit in the back, everyone of them trying to be a Yamato and snipe.

I may not be the best at positioning, but damn people at least get in the fight.
   
Made in gb
Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch





avoiding the lorax on Crion

First decent game.

Managed to land 2 kills and survive to end too!

Admitly I was in my old freind thr St Louis. Now I know why the cruiser shells did very little when I was broadside on. Plus my... Way way too many guns lol.

30k damage. Not perfect but hey. First kills.
Played a much more cautious game and hugged islands alot and quite abit more static tactically.


Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.

"May the odds be ever in your favour"

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.

FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.  
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Custodes Shield Captain





Where ever the Emperor needs his eyes

Kills and learning to hug those islands is good, very good. Congrats.
   
Made in gb
Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch





avoiding the lorax on Crion

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Kills and learning to hug those islands is good, very good. Congrats.


Aye seems alot more effective to hide abit more. I was trying to rely on speed and evasion, but it seems a more cautious approach is paying off.

Though I did get lucky, the two BB in same area drew alot more attention than a 6 inch cruiser doing 900-1000 damage a hit.

You can tank a few of those, less so a citideling BB

Though I think if I island hug in UK CL, I may work out. Though I miss He. Fire damage is almost more powerful than the AP.

Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.

"May the odds be ever in your favour"

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.

FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.  
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

I tend to be a bit on the overagressive side as well in BBs, since I also first levelled up and learned the game in German BBs. Still, you win some games where people push agressively, the amount of games you win when everyone camps is ridiculously small.

Regarding HE and fire damage, do keep in mind that 100% of all damage you take from fires can be healed back with the Repair Party consumable. If you can get solid AP shots in it means the enemy can't heal back as much HP if they get away, and only 10% of Citadel damage is healable.

For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in gb
Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch





avoiding the lorax on Crion

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
I tend to be a bit on the overagressive side as well in BBs, since I also first levelled up and learned the game in German BBs. Still, you win some games where people push agressively, the amount of games you win when everyone camps is ridiculously small.

Regarding HE and fire damage, do keep in mind that 100% of all damage you take from fires can be healed back with the Repair Party consumable. If you can get solid AP shots in it means the enemy can't heal back as much HP if they get away, and only 10% of Citadel damage is healable.


True. But later on that game last target was a BB, a BB and cruser. fully broadside. I turned on a little bud icon that told me what my shells had done and AP was just flashing up as bounces or useless.

Cruiser, ap did some good damage but the BB, 6 inch AP ain't exactly reliable vs main belt!

I tend to be over aggressive, used to armoured and high HP US cruiser type ships.

British CL Certainly finding island hugging and more destroyers tactics required.


Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.

"May the odds be ever in your favour"

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.

FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.  
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

HE certainly is a viable choice against BBs, but if they gave you flat broadside and you hit the superstructure or the bow or stern armour you'd almost certainly get penetrations even with 6" AP. If you were only getting bounces or shatters then switching ammo was obviously the correct choice for the time, but with proper aim Cruiser AP will chew through even BBs.

EDIT: On second thought, the St. Louis' HE and AP are pretty close to each other in performance, so while the AP might do a little more damage the HE shells don't suffer from angling and can set fires. I'd say you made the correct choice in shooting HE at BBs. Guess the St. Louis's AP is for other Cruisers.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/13 23:09:29


For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in gb
Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch





avoiding the lorax on Crion

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
HE certainly is a viable choice against BBs, but if they gave you flat broadside and you hit the superstructure or the bow or stern armour you'd almost certainly get penetrations even with 6" AP. If you were only getting bounces or shatters then switching ammo was obviously the correct choice for the time, but with proper aim Cruiser AP will chew through even BBs.

EDIT: On second thought, the St. Louis' HE and AP are pretty close to each other in performance, so while the AP might do a little more damage the HE shells don't suffer from angling and can set fires. I'd say you made the correct choice in shooting HE at BBs. Guess the St. Louis's AP is for other Cruisers.


That little shell tool is handy. Normaly you would not know how you hitting in so much detail. With it on, you can see exactly how your shells are performing.

At range I was I think it was I was mid range between flat penetrating and arcing penetrating, yes I did abit of superstructure damage but when I hit more belt areas and so.

So when I hit thicker armour it was hitting at angle, thus stronger. Not sharp enough one way or other to penetrate.

Sometimes the battle forces you to think.
I'm not quite at the level of aiming for exact areas, the fact I was hitting ships was better than nothing!




Automatically Appended Next Post:
And against most T1-3 ships. Ap is not always needed. Most people Don, t have armour to takw He hits, yet alone AP.

St louis is a rare exception alongside BB for heavy armour.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/13 23:32:16


Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.

"May the odds be ever in your favour"

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.

FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.  
   
Made in us
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair





Seneca Nation of Indians

Some matches are not bad.
[Thumb - shot-18.03.08_21.18.14-0089.jpg]
Not a bad match



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Believed by posters to be the Black Pope of the National Socialist Democratic Republican Communist Party.
 
   
Made in gb
Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch





avoiding the lorax on Crion

 BaronIveagh wrote:
Some matches are not bad.


Wow. Not a bad game at all.
Best ship I have is a T5 Omaha, I should work on getting cleavland eventually.

Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.

"May the odds be ever in your favour"

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.

FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.  
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

I just saw "Kamikaze" and shuddered inside. That ship should not be.



I wish I had it.

For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in us
Wicked Warp Spider




 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
I just saw "Kamikaze" and shuddered inside. That ship should not be.



I wish I had it.


Is that the one with about twenty torpedo tubes?

It's been quite a while since I last played. Internet problems make it difficult for me to patch the game (the stupid patcher insists on restarting EVERY SINGLE TIME it loses the connection - which is something that's been happening to me a lot lately), let alone play. But I have had some fun playing the game.

From the pictures, battleships running up the flank without destroyers, or even cruisers, to provide a screen (aircraft scouting will serve in a pinch) deserve exactly what happens to them.

When playing on a destroyer, I would occasionally manage to successfully run up one of the map flanks. It's not a bad idea in a destroyer - particularly a Japanese one - because it gives you the opportunity to provide some backfield spotting for your allies, and possibly get in some good torpedo shots on opponents who mistakenly think they're safe. Unfortunately, what invariably happened is that some other "friendly" ship - usually a cruiser or battleship - would see me going up the side of the map, and decide to join me. The enemy would spot them, come over to engage with them, and promptly spot me as well.

/grumble

   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

You're thinking of the Kitakami, which was removed from the game for being utterly silly. The Kamikaze is a pre-nerf Minekaze, and the Minekaze was nerfed for a reason. There's a reason why the Kamikaze, Kamikaze-R, and Fujin (same ship, different skins) aren't sold anymore.

For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in gb
Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller





Colne, England

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
You're thinking of the Kitakami, which was removed from the game for being utterly silly. The Kamikaze is a pre-nerf Minekaze, and the Minekaze was nerfed for a reason. There's a reason why the Kamikaze, Kamikaze-R, and Fujin (same ship, different skins) aren't sold anymore.


I only need the Kamikaze from next years christmas crates and then i'll have the set

Brb learning to play.

 
   
Made in gb
Gibbering Horde of Chaos




Norwich, Norfolk

Hey Hey,

I've just gotten into WoWS. I love carriers (I play a lot of strategy/RTS stuff so carriers have the perfect level of complication for me) but playing against higher tier carriers (currently tier 4/5), particularly when tier 6+ have alt fire is making it really hard for me to win/enjoy the games I play.
~.~

Decided to get back into 40k, ended up dragging my housemates kicking and screaming with me.

(It's an expensive nostalgia trip, that's not just about nostalgia anymore ;P) 
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

I'll be honest, I think carriers as they currently are never should have gotten past beta. They're wildly unbalanced and so influential on the battle that the difference in CV player skill skews the odds of victory tremendously in favour of the better CV player. Further, the fact that you can get deleted from full HP in one run without any counter play available just because you spawned in an isolated position (and thus cannot physically get to your team before the bombers get to you) is hallmark bad game design. At least give me the means to attempt to fight back.

For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in gb
Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch





avoiding the lorax on Crion

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
I'll be honest, I think carriers as they currently are never should have gotten past beta. They're wildly unbalanced and so influential on the battle that the difference in CV player skill skews the odds of victory tremendously in favour of the better CV player. Further, the fact that you can get deleted from full HP in one run without any counter play available just because you spawned in an isolated position (and thus cannot physically get to your team before the bombers get to you) is hallmark bad game design. At least give me the means to attempt to fight back.


Depends on tiers and ships too. Some early carriers have less planes and later ships with duel mount AA and ability likw radars and more advanced AA suites can hold Thete own quite effectively.

Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.

"May the odds be ever in your favour"

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.

FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.  
   
 
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