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 Alpharius wrote:
Yeah, I think 'Devastators' weren't used again after that battle, right?

They remained in service for a little while but were regarded as obsolescent already by Coral Sea . Most were soon replaced by TBF Avengers, which was already underway by Midway in any case. A small number of Avengers also saw their combat debut at Midway (6 of them if memory serves) and were similarly mauled with all but one being shot down and the survivor was shot to pieces too.

To be fair to the Devastator, I personally feel it has an unfair reputation. Unescorted torpedo bombers attacking unsupported such as they mostly did at Midway are typically going to get massacred whatever type they are, but at Coral Sea Devastator losses were negligible. I think (Although will have to check) that at Coral Sea not a single Devastator was lost to enemy aircraft so I don't believe the type was quite the death trap they're often regarded as.

IIRC there isn't a single surviving Devastator anywhere today, not even museums. I wonder if it'd be feasible to raise one for preservation?

Unlikely, like I mentioned before as I understand it salt water is really unkind to aluminium and IIRC most if not all attempts to raise WW2 aircraft from the seabed have resulted in them crumbling soon after exposure to air. There are a handful of Devastators on the seabed in more accessible locations, sadly that's probably about as good as it's going to get.

I think Mr. Allen has to have some ulterior motive than to spend millions of dollars in searching, only to be told by the Navy to 'leave it alone.' He had to have known this would happen. Without salvage rights on this, what could possibly be the payback on this venture, beyond a nice documentary on the Discovery channel?

 MDSW wrote:
I think Mr. Allen has to have some ulterior motive than to spend millions of dollars in searching, only to be told by the Navy to 'leave it alone.' He had to have known this would happen. Without salvage rights on this, what could possibly be the payback on this venture, beyond a nice documentary on the Discovery channel?

Satisfaction? Not everyone is a dedicated cynic.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Satisfaction? Not everyone is a dedicated cynic.

Agreed, you could say the same about Dr Robert Ballard who discovered Titanic back in the 1980s and HMS Hood more recently (Among many others), but who is firm believer in respecting such wrecks. Not everyone is motivated by pure profit.

simonr1978 wrote:
Unlikely, like I mentioned before as I understand it salt water is really unkind to aluminium and IIRC most if not all attempts to raise WW2 aircraft from the seabed have resulted in them crumbling soon after exposure to air. There are a handful of Devastators on the seabed in more accessible locations, sadly that's probably about as good as it's going to get.

Even of you could hook one up and get one ready to lift.

Under currents, currents, lifting, and stress on 70 yearly cordoded frames, with complex changes in presure however slow from extreme to air pressure is immensely risky too.

Its existed under extreme pressure for 7 decades. That will mean the metal may react badly when that presure goes from forcing compression to expansion.

A bell is a far stronger shape, and far more resialant metal to the seas and pressure than a air frame.

 MDSW wrote:
I think Mr. Allen has to have some ulterior motive than to spend millions of dollars in searching, only to be told by the Navy to 'leave it alone.' He had to have known this would happen. Without salvage rights on this, what could possibly be the payback on this venture, beyond a nice documentary on the Discovery channel?

While there are a lot of unscrupulous types poking around wrecks, I doubt this guy is one of them. If he was, he probably wouldn't have announced the discovery at all and would have been looking for more accessible targets.

 MDSW wrote:
I think Mr. Allen has to have some ulterior motive than to spend millions of dollars in searching, only to be told by the Navy to 'leave it alone.' He had to have known this would happen. Without salvage rights on this, what could possibly be the payback on this venture, beyond a nice documentary on the Discovery channel?

Nope.

Paul Allen literally has more money than he would ever need and is a well known philanthropist. He's done things like funding a telescope array for SETI ($30 million), a cellular science institute ($100 million), over $100 million to fight Ebola in West Africa, over $100 to support the arts, millions of dollars to education (usually science education). He's also super into yachting and has some of the largest yachts in the world, the Octopus. He also owns the RV Petrel, the only privately owned research vessel in the world equipped to explore below 6000m; it's what he's used to find Lexington and Indianapolis.

This kind of stuff if just what he likes to do.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:


How about this'un?



(also, the pics that they've got are absolutely stunning)

3-T-8 (the squadron number was removed for operational purposes) was a VT-3 spare that was sent to VT-2, stored aft. Was damaged in Jan 1940 while piloted by AMM2/c (NAP) C. E. Ziegler (NAC). BuNo 0291

These planes were probably attached to a portion of the hanger deck roof for part of their fall, since part of the aft end ripped off during the ships decent.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
IIRC there isn't a single surviving Devastator anywhere today, not even museums. I wonder if it'd be feasible to raise one for preservation?

The USN has already sued to prevent this from ever happening, regardless of it's status as a war grave. One US salvage operation attempted to bring one up for restoration that had been lost in an accident where the pilot survived. Effectivly, the court ruled that the plane belonged to the United States, with the Navy has interpreted to mean the United States Navy and has blocked any and all attempts to recover any Devastator anywhere.

 MDSW wrote:
I think Mr. Allen has to have some ulterior motive than to spend millions of dollars in searching, only to be told by the Navy to 'leave it alone.' He had to have known this would happen. Without salvage rights on this, what could possibly be the payback on this venture, beyond a nice documentary on the Discovery channel?

His motivation is the same reason we paint figurines - it is his hobby. But Paul Allen, being a co-founder of Microsoft just happens to have much more expensive hobbies.

 sebster wrote:

 Ketara wrote:
You say that, but, HMS Hood is approximately two miles down, and it didn't stop the likes of Paul Allen grabbing the bell. The economic incentive and technology are both there and accessible to anyone who sees it as an investment (that is to say, anyone who thinks that they can salvage multiple ships in succession). The Gairsoppa was 2.9 miles under the sea, and that didn't stop them pulling up over a thousand silver ingots from the thing.

Yes, specific items have been taken from wrecks, but those items were unique artifacts treasured for their history. But then you start talking about harvesting scrap metal from a wreck 3km down. It's silly.

At least some of the steel in this wreck is Low-background steel. Which means it is incredibly valuable. It would be very much worth it. Honestly, I think the US should salvage it, scrap most of it and bring back lots of pieces to place in museums so people can actually visit and learn about the Lexington and her crew. Instead of leaving them to a lonely grave on the bottom of the ocean in a place they never wanted to be. Bring a part of them home. Don't leave them in the depths. That is just terrible.

 MDSW wrote:
I think Mr. Allen has to have some ulterior motive than to spend millions of dollars in searching, only to be told by the Navy to 'leave it alone.' He had to have known this would happen. Without salvage rights on this, what could possibly be the payback on this venture, beyond a nice documentary on the Discovery channel?

His motive is finding history to preserve it, or to simply find them so we know where they are. Its the reason he spent all the money he did to find the Indianapolis and the Musashi. Same reason he owns a museum full of historical aircraft and armor which he keeps in mostly flying order, including his FW-190 D13, which is the only one of its type still in existence.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 MDSW wrote:
I think Mr. Allen has to have some ulterior motive than to spend millions of dollars in searching, only to be told by the Navy to 'leave it alone.' He had to have known this would happen. Without salvage rights on this, what could possibly be the payback on this venture, beyond a nice documentary on the Discovery channel?

His motive is finding history to preserve it, or to simply find them so we know where they are. Its the reason he spent all the money he did to find the Indianapolis and the Musashi. Same reason he owns a museum full of historical aircraft and armor which he keeps in mostly flying order, including his FW-190 D13, which is the only one of its type still in existence.

Pretty much this. Not far off modern times archaeology.

Consider this. My Great Uncle Val was in the RAF during the second world war, as part of a bomber crew. As well as sorties over Dresden, his plane was shot down over the Indian Ocean at one point (clearly not the same mission!).

When my Gran, his sister, was on a cruise of the Indian Ocean, the Captain made a small diversion to show her the rough area he would've ditched in. Whilst he was lucky enough to be rescued (hence the co-ordinates are known), and lived to a ripe old age, that diversion meant a lot to Granny. Just as I imagine knowing the final resting place means a lot to the descendant of the Indianapolis' crew that didn't make it.

It's a shame no one sinks the scavengers.

 n0t_u wrote:
It's a shame no one sinks the scavengers.

Dropping a salvage barge half a mile onto the site MAY just damage it worse than the salvagers were.

Given currents and such it would probably be unlikely to hit the wreck, but yeah not the best idea. Sink them a little ways off