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2018/06/11 23:00:59
Subject: So no really, can we get some moderation here?
Who was demanding? What are you talking about? People gave their opinions, civilly. This thing you are talking about didnt happen and I'm not sure why you think it did. Your whole argument here makes zero sense because what you are claiming happened, didn't happen.
The MLP thread was filled with issues and people jumping in and saying those exact things before mods got involved heavily and shut a lot of it down. It happened because there was no other outlet for that to happen.
2018/06/11 23:31:23
Subject: So no really, can we get some moderation here?
Would it help if someone pointed out that we all play in someone else's sandbox, and when the rulers of said sandbox make a ruling or decision, that's their prerogative.
We get to play here until an authority tells us to go home. Regardless of the "rules" of the site, when it gets down to it, we're all playing here on someone else's good will.
So forget any sense of being entitled to a fair trial, consistent application, or even common decency. We aren't owed these things... though I do find the treatment here to be very reasonable with a generally hands off approach, which I like.
Perhaps a change of perspective would do you good, and lead to a better experience for you? Treat this site like it belongs to someone else, and that you're allowed to use it so long as you maintain the goodwill of the "owners". You can disagree, and argue with the owners, but realize that you'll eventually wear out your welcome if you keep being an arsehole.
Not to say you are, but the royal you. Mods don't get paid, and the thrill of lording it over your fellow dorks wears out pretty quickly, I'd imagine. So be nice, accept you have no say in the running of things. C'est la vie.
*** Despite what probably sounds like a downbeat view of things, I like the way this site is run. I'm just trying to provide a different perspective that I find helpful. ***
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/11 23:40:41
2018/06/11 23:42:21
Subject: So no really, can we get some moderation here?
I'm not summarizing what happened in the thread, I am making (as I said) a distinction between a situation in which fans of XYZ must start on the defensive and a situation in which critics of XYZ start with a good faith attempt to learn more. For people interested in what is more acceptable to the moderators, especially when it comes to topics not related to miniatures gaming, it's the latter.
To clarify the record, people crapping on MLP was not a result of our policy of limiting discussion of MLP to a single thread and not allowing people to crap on MLP there. That polciy, in fact, was the result of people crapping on MLP (and there being too many threads about MLP, most of which were "MLP is crap" style threads). Again, it worked very well.
greatbigtree wrote: the thrill of lording it over your fellow dorks wears out pretty quickly
TBH it is nonexistent.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/11 23:44:17
Fun fact- sometimes things go off the rails, dude.
Like, really off the rails.
Some people intentionally drive them off the rails if they don't like the subject matter.
So it's best to lock it up. If you want to revisit the topic later with new relevant information, give someone in the mod team a heads-up and if they're cool, go for it.
Because trust me, my honest opinion of the mods here is that they're so varied across the board in what they think- if it was just them thinking it was 'stupid' this entire forum would be locked.
Mob Rule is not a rule.
2018/06/12 00:34:52
Subject: Re:So no really, can we get some moderation here?
I have no problem with mods locking threads that go off the rails or give warnings and suspensions/bans. I mean half the time the users are begging them to do it. That is called moderating. They volunteered to do that. If they dont want to, stop? However, locking threads for the reason of being "stupid" and then giving a halfassed explanation after is not moderating. That is painting with a wide brush. Things users are generally given warnings about here on dakka.
Also, the idea that users cannot question the decisions of mods is absolutely absurd. That is maybe one of the worst things you can do as a mod. Especially when the mod team is volunteer. You learn from your mistakes and mods learn about those mistakes from feedback.
2018/06/12 00:56:12
Subject: So no really, can we get some moderation here?
Dreadwinter, you can absolutely question the mods - hence this thread!
I have to read through here more later, but I would say regardless of the lock message, that thread had kind of gone off the rails. I thought about locking it when it was posted, as it seemed likely to get a strong "back and forth" response, and wasn't about a particular Geek Media item (just a dislike of the genre).
So, I think it was kind of destined to get there, but did so sooner than expected...
But you can - Always - ask / question / etc about moderation on this site, and we'll consider it as a team. So, don't worry about doing that here!
2018/06/12 01:03:42
Subject: So no really, can we get some moderation here?
That wasn't so much directed at the mods as the other users telling me to give it up because this isnt my house. So far the mods have been pretty patient. Except for that first thread. But alas, that comment was not directed at the mod team.
As far as that thread goes. That was far from off the rails. Was there even a personal attack thrown out? I get the op was rough, but after that it was calm amd collected.
2018/06/12 12:41:55
Subject: Re:So no really, can we get some moderation here?
For what it's worth, it comes from a place of having been there and done that.
This whole righteous indignation thing, for several pages now, does not show a well thought, reasoned approach. It shows an emotional desire to have someone acknowledge what you believe is correct. It shows a sense that you are entitled to being treated a certain way, and that you're entitled to Mods that desire to "improve" their abilities.
You're demanding, not requesting. There's a substantial difference.
You keep sniping on the same subject. It's over. Move on. Your personal happiness will improve when you can learn that the universe doesn't owe you things.
2018/06/12 13:13:22
Subject: So no really, can we get some moderation here?
Those are some big assumptions. I am just taking mods to task for inconsistencies in their own moderating. Some of us get very fruatrated when the moderation for the forum depends on who logs in, what their mood is, and if the moon is in the right phase.
There are just wildly different approaches from mod to mod and a lot of them will contradict each other in the same thread. Just a few pages apart from each other. If you think this is righteous indignation or an emotional response from me, I have some much better stuff for you to read. This was downright civil and polite.
2018/06/12 13:54:03
Subject: So no really, can we get some moderation here?
Dreadwinter wrote: Also, how was that likely to escalate? Even I was being civil in there. That should say something about the threads tone.
The typical signs of a thread closure is:
Demands for "proof" for an argument, which when provided is then ignored.
Then mod postings of:"Stay on topic.", "No name calling."
Then typically closes when people are compared to Nazis and dictators.
That is the typical thread running it's course.
Demands for further discussion is pointless and rightly so.
Newly opened threads that appear as a straight continuation of the closed thread also get shut down because the prior thread was closed down for a reason.
It looks like Dreadwinter has posted here a fair bit, none of this should be a surprise.
Ultimately, moderation is a judgement call on:
Rule 1: Be Polite
Rule 2: Stay on Topic
Rule 3: No Spam
A note for the OP to consider:
"Threads that get long because they have wandered off topic will be closed. People can still read the thread, however no new posts can be added. If you'd like to continue your ideas start a new thread with an appropriate title in the correct forum." I am sure closure because "it is stupid" can easily fit in that guideline.
Feel free to look here for guidance:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/core/forum_rules.jsp
I felt a need to make these points because I have found the moderation here usually good and reasonable, there is the occasional abrupt closure but we are not the "hive of scum and villainy" some would have us believe.
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
2018/06/12 14:00:17
Subject: So no really, can we get some moderation here?
Cool, none of that happened in the thread in question.
For the 2nd or 3rd time in this thread. I understand thread locks when there are issues. My issues arise when a thread with a very civil conversation is locked and the reason for it is "this is stupid."
2018/06/12 14:07:03
Subject: So no really, can we get some moderation here?
Dreadwinter wrote: Those are some big assumptions. I am just taking mods to task for inconsistencies in their own moderating.
The reason to "take them to task" is in an effort to improve the board?
An altruistic endeavor?
What would you suggest as an extension of their rule-set to be more "consistant"?
Some of us get very fruatrated when the moderation for the forum depends on who logs in, what their mood is, and if the moon is in the right phase.
So you are underscoring an assumption that the decision making is fickle?
I typically see the MODs involved when it gets personal and angry and the warnings to come are easily anticipated.
"Some of us" who would be others than yourself?
It is unfortunate you feel "frustrated", what could the MODs possibly do different that would alleviate your frustration that would have to apply to all members here, no special cases.
There are just wildly different approaches from mod to mod and a lot of them will contradict each other in the same thread. Just a few pages apart from each other.
The only hint of "contradiction" I typically see is one MOD's tolerance for foolishness is more indulgent than the other's.
If you think this is righteous indignation or an emotional response from me, I have some much better stuff for you to read. This was downright civil and polite.
I think in order to be heard you were observing Rule #1.
Any reference to prior nastiness would not justify "unleashing the beast" any time soon.
What is a firm rule you would want observed that could address matters?
Getting to the point would be awesome and then I would not have to consider you are looking to vent and trolling for a victim.
Clearly an opinion piece, lots of cries of "boring" and "example" pictures to show evidence how "boring" steampunk is.
Yes, yes, very nice.
If I was to level any critique to the mod, when closing a thread, do not use it as getting "the last word" and just calmly say "this thread has run it's course" on a nice neutral note.
I think that is what is sticking in the OP's craw: I am sure his preference is for himself to get the last word.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/12 14:22:15
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
2018/06/12 14:20:37
Subject: So no really, can we get some moderation here?
You can consider whatever you want champ. I'm not looking to rehash an entire thread with you and I'm not looking to "unleash the beast" here. Ultimately I am here to convince the mods to moderate with more consistency and to communicate with each other better with regards to our more troublesome threads.
You are free to read the thread. It really is all in there. I promise.
2018/06/12 14:31:51
Subject: Re:So no really, can we get some moderation here?
Definition: Moderate: make or become less extreme, intense, rigorous, or violent. So yeah, the job is to "de-escalate".
I am really curious on what technique is going to be used to "convince" them.
Calling someone "champ" and not being bothered to outline your case to others is either laziness or not showing commitment to your cause.
Yep, it IS all there because the MODs allow it to be not due to your "promise".
All your exercises in free speech within this tiny dictatorship is preserved for all time.
Such strong "demands" but no substance or direction in them: do you have a point other than closing a thread because it is "stupid" is not good enough for you?
This thread is proving rapidly that it would not fit the definition on intelligent conversation.
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
2018/06/12 14:43:59
Subject: Re:So no really, can we get some moderation here?
Yeah so here is the deal. This thread came to a conclusion last night. After I talked my case with the mods. The ones I was having problems with. A 3rd party coming in and demanding I do it again and calling me lazy for not wishing to do so is not going to get me to do it. I don't regularly report people, so I'll just give you a heads up that rule #1 still applies.
If mods want to close a bad thread. They should do it immediately, instead of participating in the thread and then getting upset when people disagree with them. Yadda yadda yadda. All this is in the thread. Read the thread.
2018/06/12 15:17:54
Subject: So no really, can we get some moderation here?
Dreadwinter wrote: Ultimately I am here to convince the mods to moderate with more consistency and to communicate with each other better with regards to our more troublesome threads.
Mods are people that are using judgment. Judgment calls tend to vary based on the person. It doesn't matter if you're talking about internet moderation, NFL referees, or federal judges, each person is going to see things a little differently, because in the end, it's a constant exercise in viewing shades of grey, with only the ability to call things white or black.
In short, you are asking for improved consistency in independent judgment, which is one of the hardest things to accomplish.
2018/06/12 15:38:52
Subject: So no really, can we get some moderation here?
Dreadwinter wrote: Those are some big assumptions. I am just taking mods to task for inconsistencies in their own moderating.
The reason to "take them to task" is in an effort to improve the board?
An altruistic endeavor?
What would you suggest as an extension of their rule-set to be more "consistant"?
Some of us get very fruatrated when the moderation for the forum depends on who logs in, what their mood is, and if the moon is in the right phase.
So you are underscoring an assumption that the decision making is fickle?
I typically see the MODs involved when it gets personal and angry and the warnings to come are easily anticipated.
"Some of us" who would be others than yourself?
It is unfortunate you feel "frustrated", what could the MODs possibly do different that would alleviate your frustration that would have to apply to all members here, no special cases.
There are just wildly different approaches from mod to mod and a lot of them will contradict each other in the same thread. Just a few pages apart from each other.
The only hint of "contradiction" I typically see is one MOD's tolerance for foolishness is more indulgent than the other's.
If you think this is righteous indignation or an emotional response from me, I have some much better stuff for you to read. This was downright civil and polite.
I think in order to be heard you were observing Rule #1.
Any reference to prior nastiness would not justify "unleashing the beast" any time soon.
What is a firm rule you would want observed that could address matters?
Getting to the point would be awesome and then I would not have to consider you are looking to vent and trolling for a victim.
Clearly an opinion piece, lots of cries of "boring" and "example" pictures to show evidence how "boring" steampunk is.
Yes, yes, very nice.
If I was to level any critique to the mod, when closing a thread, do not use it as getting "the last word" and just calmly say "this thread has run it's course" on a nice neutral note.
I think that is what is sticking in the OP's craw: I am sure his preference is for himself to get the last word.
The first link you provided was my original nuts and bolts post, which was immediately locked by the mod who locked the previous thread. So, in order to actually be able to discuss the issue I had to make another. Hence this thread.
I would really prefer the mods get the last word on this one. Something along the lines of a thread lock because this one has really run its course. The attempts at bait here are pretty great though. Top notch! Great work!
2018/06/12 15:43:52
Subject: So no really, can we get some moderation here?
Well, when you continue to drop your line in this particular pond, as opposed to perhaps listening to the good advice (and ignoring the other stuff) that's been given here, you'll probably continue to work yourself up and get more and more distressed.
Definitely might be time to push back from the table and find something less distressing to do, especially as this is supposed to be an hobby for enjoyment after all!
Insidious Intriguer
2018/06/12 15:44:31
Subject: So no really, can we get some moderation here?
I read the last page of the thread. Yeah...gonna agree with Red for locking it (although maybe "this is getting ridiculous" would have been better than "stupid"). It did get to a head-meets-desk level of pain to read it. And I'm sure that's why Red locked it.
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.
2018/06/12 15:55:11
Subject: So no really, can we get some moderation here?
Dreadwinter wrote: I would really prefer the mods get the last word on this one. Something along the lines of a thread lock because this one has really run its course. The attempts at bait here are pretty great though. Top notch! Great work!
An honest attempt at getting context.
The only "bait" I was applying is to try to get you to state what is the preferred rule or method you want to see in the future.
As to threatening to report me for being "impolite", am I a bad person for finding that terribly funny?
That is a rhetorical question.
I did point out one element I thought had merit to your argument.
But it does appear you do not want any "help" in trying to make your point a wee bit more clear.
I hope prior to the closure of this thread (I feel it imminent) you will be able to make your wants a bit more clear and be able to make a case.
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
2018/06/12 16:38:52
Subject: So no really, can we get some moderation here?
timetowaste85 wrote: I read the last page of the thread. Yeah...gonna agree with Red for locking it (although maybe "this is getting ridiculous" would have been better than "stupid"). It did get to a head-meets-desk level of pain to read it. And I'm sure that's why Red locked it.
Did you read the thread though? Because Red didn't lock it.
Talizvar wrote: I hope prior to the closure of this thread (I feel it imminent) you will be able to make your wants a bit more clear and be able to make a case.
Dreadwinter wrote: Yeah so here is the deal. This thread came to a conclusion last night. After I talked my case with the mods.
Edit: I keep hitting the Violin Orkmoticon on accident. Third time trying to fix this, my internet keeps cutting out.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/12 16:48:06
2018/06/12 18:38:11
Subject: So no really, can we get some moderation here?
Apologies. Killkrazy. I thought I saw Red’s name there. Either way, he was right. Just could have been worded less antagonistically. Your posts boiled down to “I hate X cuz they do X-things instead of Y-things”. If I order a burger, I expect a burger; not sushi. If I buy a comic book, I expect a comic book; not William Hung’s biography. If I buy a music album, I don’t expect the excrement of Kanye West (even though some people try to pass that off as music). I’m sure he was flabbergasted at trying to wrap his head around your statements. I know I was.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/12 18:42:15
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.
2018/06/12 19:35:20
Subject: Re:So no really, can we get some moderation here?
If mods want to close a bad thread. They should do it immediately, instead of participating in the thread and then getting upset when people disagree with them..
He wasn't upset that people disagreed with him. He closed the thread because it had passed its expiry date.
Mods will quite often post in the thread in order to try to guide the discussion to a more productive track rather than just locking it. If you disagree with that approach, that's your prerogative... But it's one that for the most part works fairly well, and so will likely continue.
But speaking of things that have run their course... I think we're done here. Closing to avoid anything escalating.
