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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Leo_the_Rat wrote:
"It's movement phase" could be a generic reference to the player's movement phase but looking at it from the unit's PoV.

This is another grey area that GW left by using insufficient wording in its rules.


They don't generally refer to the player at "it". They do refer to a unit as "it", however.
   
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Possessed Khorne Marine Covered in Spikes






 doctortom wrote:
Leo_the_Rat wrote:
"It's movement phase" could be a generic reference to the player's movement phase but looking at it from the unit's PoV.

This is another grey area that GW left by using insufficient wording in its rules.


They don't generally refer to the player at "it". They do refer to a unit as "it", however.


They are definitely referring to the unit when they say "its movement phase," however, the unit does not have its own, independent movement phase. The unit's movement phase is the same movement phase as the player's movement phase as well as every other unit in his or her army. When GW says "its movement phase" they are referring to the movement phase of the unit and their player. When it is your movement phase, it is your unit's movement phase. Your unit's movement phase begins before it is selected as a unit to move.

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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Kharneth wrote:
 doctortom wrote:
Leo_the_Rat wrote:
"It's movement phase" could be a generic reference to the player's movement phase but looking at it from the unit's PoV.

This is another grey area that GW left by using insufficient wording in its rules.


They don't generally refer to the player at "it". They do refer to a unit as "it", however.


They are definitely referring to the unit when they say "its movement phase," however, the unit does not have its own, independent movement phase. The unit's movement phase is the same movement phase as the player's movement phase as well as every other unit in his or her army. When GW says "its movement phase" they are referring to the movement phase of the unit and their player. When it is your movement phase, it is your unit's movement phase. Your unit's movement phase begins before it is selected as a unit to move.


The point is that they don't have their own independent movement phase. That means when you hit their movement phase, it's the point where you're selecting them to move or do other actions. That is when you pick the unit...to disembark first (since you have to choose the unit in order to set it up on the board), then to move it.

I don't see where you're given permission to select a unit twice during the phase.
   
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Chicago, IL

 doctortom wrote:


I don't see where you're given permission to select a unit twice during the phase.
Why are you under the impression that you need to select a unit to move when you are disembarking it?


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 DeathReaper wrote:
 doctortom wrote:


I don't see where you're given permission to select a unit twice during the phase.
Why are you under the impression that you need to select a unit to move when you are disembarking it?



I am under the impression that you must select a unit in order for it to disembark. I am also under the impression you must select a unit for it to move, since it says to pick a unit. I don't see that we necessarily have permission to select a unit twice in the same phase for something, especially since from the wording you are at "it's" movement phase when disembarking. That would seem to be the point where you are picking the unit to move, so you choosing the unit would be for doing both.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/14 16:25:08


 
   
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 doctortom wrote:
 DeathReaper wrote:
 doctortom wrote:


I don't see where you're given permission to select a unit twice during the phase.
Why are you under the impression that you need to select a unit to move when you are disembarking it?



I am under the impression that you must select a unit in order for it to disembark. I am also under the impression you must select a unit for it to move, since it says to pick a unit. I don't see that we necessarily have permission to select a unit twice in the same phase for something, especially since from the wording you are at "it's" movement phase when disembarking. That would seem to be the point where you are picking the unit to move, so you choosing the unit would be for doing both.
"Selecting a unit" and "selecting a unit to move" is two completely different things. The RAW implies "disembarking" is an action of "setting up". There is no rule that states a unit cannot be selected more than once. It simply states a unit cannot be selected to move more than once per phase.

By an extension of the argument "a unit cannot be selected more than once per phase" - say if I have two eligible units to move:
Player 1: "ok, I select my unit A to move, and it will go this way. (before the actual move is made) Wait, on a second thought, I actually want to move and advance my unit B first to see how far they can go. If I roll a 6 on the advance roll, I am going to send my unit A elsewhere. I select my unit B to move, and it will advance. (rolls a 6, makes the move). Ok, now I'm going back to my unit A and select it to move..."
Player 2: (interrupts) "no, you can't move your unit A anymore because you can't select a unit more than once per phase. You should've just stuck to what you first said and moved your unit A first. Now it can't move."

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/14 16:54:42


 
   
Made in us
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 doctortom wrote:
 Kharneth wrote:
 doctortom wrote:
Leo_the_Rat wrote:
"It's movement phase" could be a generic reference to the player's movement phase but looking at it from the unit's PoV.

This is another grey area that GW left by using insufficient wording in its rules.


They don't generally refer to the player at "it". They do refer to a unit as "it", however.


They are definitely referring to the unit when they say "its movement phase," however, the unit does not have its own, independent movement phase. The unit's movement phase is the same movement phase as the player's movement phase as well as every other unit in his or her army. When GW says "its movement phase" they are referring to the movement phase of the unit and their player. When it is your movement phase, it is your unit's movement phase. Your unit's movement phase begins before it is selected as a unit to move.


The point is that they don't have their own independent movement phase. That means when you hit their movement phase, it's the point where you're selecting them to move or do other actions. That is when you pick the unit...to disembark first (since you have to choose the unit in order to set it up on the board), then to move it.

I don't see where you're given permission to select a unit twice during the phase.


At the beginning of your turn, when the movement phase begins, every single unit in your army has begun its movement phase. Every single transport and every unit inside the transport has begun its movement phase at the same time. Now that it is your movement phase, you can disembark units. After you disembark from a vehicle, your unit can then act normally during the movement phase.

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I thought players get phases, units get actions.

"Units that disembark can then act normally (move, shoot, charge, fight, etc) during the remainder of their turn." 

That says to me the unit can (not = must), and during the remainder = at a time of the controlling player's choosing.
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

Disembarking is not moving in the sense of moving in the movement phase. Otherwise the unit wouldnt be able to move later in the movement phase, because a unit cannot move twice in the movement phase. And it wouldnt be able to disembark if the transport is surrounded by enemy models, because you cannot move through enemy models. Disembarking counts as moving for the purpose of moving and firing heavy weapons. A disembarked unit can move later when the controlling player wants it.
   
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Under the couch

 Uther wrote:


So the way that "everyone" seems to play it is that you disembark a unit and then immediately move it? If so that's good enough for me.

It's how it worked in previous editions, so it's likely to be how most players default in the absence of a more specific ruling either way.

 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






 insaniak wrote:
 Uther wrote:
So the way that "everyone" seems to play it is that you disembark a unit and then immediately move it? If so that's good enough for me.
It's how it worked in previous editions, so it's likely to be how most players default in the absence of a more specific ruling either way.
Except that isn't what the rules say. The rules are actually clear, how it worked in previous editions has no bearing on how it works now. Do you see now why it's frustrating when people ignore the rules to push a "this is how most people play it" agenda when it's simply not true?

I fully admit GW need to fix their rules, but this is not one that needs fixing. All asking GW to FAQ this explicitly clear rule is doing is wasting their time when they could be actually fixing actual broken things.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/17 14:50:30


 
   
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Under the couch

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Except that isn't what the rules say. The rules are actually clear, how it worked in previous editions has no bearing on how it works now. Do you see now why it's frustrating when people ignore the rules to push a "this is how most people play it" agenda when it's simply not true?.

I never said it was what the rules say, I was pointing out why people might be interpreting it that way.

You'll find it less frustrating if you don't try to insert meaning into a post that isn't actually there.

 
   
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Did we get to a consensus?

I keep moving my units immediately after disembarking and I'm worried about the day when I'll want to move my transports first and won't know which way to do it. Did anyone email GW?

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 Kharneth wrote:
Did we get to a consensus?

I keep moving my units immediately after disembarking and I'm worried about the day when I'll want to move my transports first and won't know which way to do it. Did anyone email GW?

I'd say talk it out with opponent in the beginning. Judging from lack of continued participation from the "units must move immediately upon disembarking" camp I think we more or less agree it's in the grey area.
   
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I hate to be the one to say this but just an email response from GW won't end this. Rule 2 of the tenants specifically say that an email can not be used as support for a position. Also, it just wouldn't be enough for me. GW would have to address it in a FAQ or CA or, something "official" (and not FB) for it to be accepted in general.
   
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Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I hate to be the one to say this but just an email response from GW won't end this. Rule 2 of the tenants specifically say that an email can not be used as support for a position. Also, it just wouldn't be enough for me. GW would have to address it in a FAQ or CA or, something "official" (and not FB) for it to be accepted in general.


None of that is a requirement for me.

I don't care one way or the other. I just want a decision that isn't going to alter every time I play a game. If I went to my friends and said "GW said this" in an email we'd all be fine playing it like that. Instead, I need to explain to them why it's a relevant question and then argue with them until we all agree on something. I'd much rather have someone just give us an answer.

I understand organized play and games against people who aren't your friends would require a more legitimate answer.

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Confessor Of Sins





Tacoma, WA, USA

My suggestion: Email GW at their rules address. If you're lucky, they will respond to you. If we are lucky, it will be answered in the Fall FAQ.
   
 
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