Anyone played Stormcast vs. any summoning armies?

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**minisnatcher**

NinthMusketeer wrote:
LoS isn't key to the problem, and as Kan established Kroak can't avoid it using woods anyways.

yes I know. But just wondered about those terrain rules... I know I wondered off topic.

On topic. My guess is that they will seriously cut down seraphon summoning in a few months after a lot of players bought a lot of models... just as they did with 40k. Can't imagine they would keep stormcast non-competitive.

**ERJAK**

auticus wrote:
Davor wrote:
How did the Sudden Death victory worked in the last edition? I can't remember. Is it the same for 2.0?

There are a number of sudden death victory conditions in the open war deck, and my GHB 2018 came with them as well. They are all different. For example, one is if you kill the enemy general you win the game. Or if you get three units in the enemy deployment zone, you win. Things like that.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Probably because if they were spamming Mortal Wounds they lacked mobility and the ability to do things like, y'know, Fly over the woods and beat the crap out of Lord Kroak using Prosecutors or flank around the woods using cavalry.

Kind of hard to flank around and get him with prosecutors or cavalry when those items of theirs were being screened against by the seraphon player's own units.

Without the context of a full battle report with diagrams its kind of hard for you to state what happened in the game I'd think

Before the battle even started the stormcast player's entire stratgegy was find a way to get across the board and kill lord kroak to stop the summoning.

Easier said than done. Seraphon player brought four citadel woods with him, and when they were rolling terrain each time the seraphon player's turn was up he'd place a wood near a corner of the table as his whole strategy was camping a corner with kroak out of line of sight and his screen and keeping his screens in such a way the stormcast couldn't just teleport on top of him.

The seraphon army had fliers of their own that matched up against any flying stormcast unit.

There was no hard counter against this strategy, as there never really has been a hard counter against bunkering in a corner. The same thing was true in 8th wfhb or aos 1.0 with the summons or 40k 7th edition with the summons. When someone wants to castle in a corner the only real way you can fight that is with ranged superiority, which will be negated with line of sight blocking terrain blocking the corners, or brute forcing your way over through the screens.

Not sure how to define or respond to "they are playing to the meta that existed before 2.0". He was trying to kill the summoner. He wasn't able to because the summoner was locked out of sight behind screens and the rest of his army was being occupied by the entirety of the seraphon army that was constantly adding free points to itself.

So how'd he take the woods in a Seraphon army? The citadel woods themselves don't have a pitched battle profile and you can't use the sylvaneth version because they can't ally with seraphon. If he's just taking them as part of the general table terrain than the simple solution is to do what every tournament ever does and play them as just normal woods.

I am going to say the Seraphon summoning table is WAY too generous for an army that didn't see any significant points changes and was already top tier.

**privateer4hire**

Wait. Two Grand Alliance armies can't ally in 2.0?

**str00dles1**

privateer4hire wrote:
Wait. Two Grand Alliance armies can't ally in 2.0?

Depends on the armies.

Stormcast for example has Allies: Any Order Faction

While Sylvaneth has : Idoneth Deepkin, Stormcast, Wanders only

My question is where is the sudden death rules for 2.0 think I missed em?

**auticus**

minisnatcher wrote:
So the placing of the scenery...Are those houserules? Can't find in AOS 2.0 anywhere that you get to bring your own scenery and both players put a piece in turn... And I would not play a game against a player that puts a bunker of citadel woods in each corner...

Tournaments that I have attended always have had premade tables. And other games we usually put some scenery on and discuss it with each other to make sure both player are okay with what they see. Especially when playing competitive as at that point we try to mimic tournament conditions...

Is this somewhere in the rules that I overlooked?(possible as I only have the book a few days)

The 1.0 rules had a chart for generating number of terrain per tile.

There are no official rules in 2.0. Premade tables are impossible since we aren't at tournaments. Its really going to be up to you and your opponents since there are no official rules. Alternating terrain placement piece by piece has basically been a thing in warhammer since it began in the 80s, and a few of us have been playing that long so we have continued using it. It is also the fairest method that can be conceived along with a roll to see how many pieces of terrain exist. Otherwise one person will want to set up a table one way the other will argue, and no game will be played.

The sudden death rules came with my GHB 2018 in the form of cards. They are basically the 2.0 version of the open war deck. They are a part of the open war rules and are found on p.6 of the GHB 2018. The table itself is on p.9

**Marmatag**

This just brings us back to the fact that AoS is generally not to be played competitively.

I hope they stop releasing content for matched play altogether and really amp up the narrative and fun side of it.

Summoning is only a problem if you accept a specific set of win conditions for the game. Subtracting those, and setting different goals, can be fun. If you want to play competitive games, play 40k.

**ServiceGames**

Marmatag wrote:
This just brings us back to the fact that AoS is generally not to be played competitively.

Yet between 40K and AoS, only AoS actually has a competitive ruleset. Interesting how that is.

SG

**privateer4hire**

str00dles1 wrote:
privateer4hire wrote:
Wait. Two Grand Alliance armies can't ally in 2.0?

Depends on the armies.

Stormcast for example has Allies: Any Order Faction

While Sylvaneth has : Idoneth Deepkin, Stormcast, Wanders only

My question is where is the sudden death rules for 2.0 think I missed em?

Thanks for that. That's really news to me.

**Crazyterran**

Im pretty sure you can still have order armies, just wont get allegiance abilities, no?

**NinthMusketeer**

Grand alliance allegiances are in the core book.