Declaring targets, defensive strategems, and splitting fire

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**Jidmah**

A lot of defensive stratagems need to be declared at the beginning of the shooting phase (like cloud of flies), so I don't really see the difference.

**Ice_can**

Jidmah wrote:
Another question to this, from a recent game.

I have a unit of 7 plague marines with 3 plasma guns and 4 bolters.
My opponent has two units of shining spears and CP left to use Lightning Fast Reflexes.

At what point does he need to declare his stratagem?
1) After I decide what to shoot with any model?
2) After I decide what to shoot with all models?
3) After I decide which mode of my plasma gun I'm using?

And more specific:
I assume that my opponent is not using the stratagem before I use my first plasma gun.
Can I declare and fully resolve my bolters before shooting any plasma guns?
Once my opponent decided to use Lightning Fast Reflexes against my first plasma gun, can I still decide to no overload that weapon?
Can I shoot the other unit with the remaining two plasma guns?

I would say 1 with the additional caviate that the model most be targeting the unit he wants to use the strategum on.

You can rwsolve them in any order in step 3 but you have to have declaired a target for every weapon in the unit in step 2.

Yes is it has to be played in step 2 the overcharge or not doesn't impact untill step 3 specifically the overheating.

I would say no as I read the rules to be declair attacks, so you declair targets weapon by weapon.

**Kommissar Kel**

As said many times in this thread and others in the past year: RAW is really muddy because step 2 is reliant on step 3 to function as written.

Both steps are usually combined in actual play(example: "I am shooting with my tac squad; 3 bolters and a flamer on this unit of guardians, 4 bolters on this unit of jetbikes, and the sgt's combi plas -firing just the plas- and the lascannon on the war-walker")

The above is not required; so long as you assign at least 1 weapon in step 3 to a targeted unit from step 2 that has the range and los to be capable of firing.

As for the strategems, if you are following the closer to RAW above; you can force the strategem used before you declare which gun will actually target the units.

**alextroy**

I agree with Kommissar Kel. You have to fire at least one weapon at every unit you declared your unit is firing at, but you don't need to decide which ones until Step 3, which is after most Stratagems need to be declared.

As for weapons with multiple firing statlines, you declare which one is using when you declare that weapon is firing in Step 3, "this Model is firing his Plasma Gun in overcharge at that unit".

**Slipspace**

Kommissar Kel wrote:
As said many times in this thread and others in the past year: RAW is really muddy because step 2 is reliant on step 3 to function as written.

Both steps are usually combined in actual play(example: "I am shooting with my tac squad; 3 bolters and a flamer on this unit of guardians, 4 bolters on this unit of jetbikes, and the sgt's combi plas -firing just the plas- and the lascannon on the war-walker")

The above is not required; so long as you assign at least 1 weapon in step 3 to a targeted unit from step 2 that has the range and los to be capable of firing.

As for the strategems, if you are following the closer to RAW above; you can force the strategem used before you declare which gun will actually target the units.

I'm not so sure. RAW, the exact quote for step 2 is you must be in range of "the weapon being used", not just a weapon, but the weapon. HIWPI is probably you must declare which weapons are firing at which targets, in order to fulfil the requirements in step 2, but you're not required to declare fire modes or stratagems used when a unit fires until after the defensive stratagems have been declared.

It would be nice if GW would update their terminology in a future FAQ but I'm not holding my breath. They seem to really struggle to understand even the concept of consistent terminology, never mind the actual execution of writing rules involving it!

**Jidmah**

Thanks Kel and alextroy, it's perfectly clear now

I'll probably just continue to declare all weapons and targets before my opponent uses his or her stratagem, and switch weapon profiles if necessary.

**Kommissar Kel**

Go back and reread my first statement in the post you quoted. The RAW does not work.

But as long as you assign any weapon within range to the target unit from the model firing at that unit, you are within range of The weapon targeting that unit. This is, again as I said in the quote, Closer to RAW.

**skchsan**

Kommissar Kel wrote:
Go back and reread my first statement in the post you quoted. The RAW does not work.

But as long as you assign any weapon within range to the target unit from the model firing at that unit, you are within range of The weapon targeting that unit. This is, again as I said in the quote, Closer to RAW.

Agreed with kel.

**U02dah4**

I do think with a question like this sportingly any reasonable player would let your opponent use the defensive strategems at any point before dice are rolled.

If I was playing a player trying to abuse the wording the simple answer is to just announce every shot from then on as i fire the melta at your knight "no you can't use your defensive strategem we have gone to step 3 its to late you should have responded before the weapon was announced".

**Kommissar Kel**

U02dah4 wrote:
I do think with a question like this sportingly any reasonable player would let your opponent use the defensive strategems at any point before dice are rolled.

If I was playing a player trying to abuse the wording the simple answer is to just announce every shot from then on as i fire the melta at your knight "no you can't use your defensive strategem we have gone to step 3 its to late you should have responded before the weapon was announced".

That is HIWPI; but then, the blended 2&3 example Slipspace quoted is also how I have played the game(yes, with strangers; not just a specific play-group/club).

**kaotkbliss**

I've always declared it as "I'm firing such-and-such weapon at these guys, such-and-such at them..." so I would allow my opponent to use their stratagem.