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Brewdog's "Nanny State", and Pistonhead's "Flat Tire"are good low alcohol beers if you are thirsty and driving.

I quite enjoy a bottle of Becks Blue from time to time (alcohol free).

 Kilkrazy wrote:

What I am reading though, is that the millenial generation are a lot more abstemious. My daughter, aged slightly under 19, hardly drinks at all and only occasionally will take a glass of weak cider.

There's definitely a generational thing about it. I'm 30something, and drank a bit at uni then largely stopped (because I'm usually driving), but my parents and neighbours (all north of 60) don't think anything of polishing off a bottle of wine with every meal. Less so now that we dropped our drink-drive limit to nothing - you can't even have 1 and drive home.

I think it's partially awareness, partially cost, partially better entertainment and different pressures. Todays uni students don't really have the time or money to get hammered 3 nights a week (on the whole).

So I think, like smoking, in another few generations it'll be almost non existant. Not that there isn't a problem as it is, and I really think there should be a zero tolerance policy towards problem drinkers. Drink so much you get arrested or hospitalized - 6 month drinking-in-town ASBO. Get rowdy and need the bouncers to throw you out - 6 month pub & club ban. Make it totally unacceptible to become a drunken nuisance, and hopefully things will change.

 Overread wrote:

Like making soft drinks more popular, the drink driving doesn't take the drink away, it just makes it impractical to risk having more than one or two pints if you've got to drive.

Soft drinks should be much cheaper in pubs too. When i was out all the time (10 years ago, admittedly) there was always a promo pint of beer available cheaper than a pint of soda.
I've heard of some initiative where the designated driver gets free soft drinks with every round, that seems like a genuinely good idea.

Herzlos wrote:
Drink so much you get arrested or hospitalized - 6 month drinking-in-town ASBO. Get rowdy and need the bouncers to throw you out - 6 month pub & club ban. Make it totally unacceptible to become a drunken nuisance, and hopefully things will change.

I wonder if right now that kind of approach isn't practical due to the sheer number of people it would start to affect. Police measures have to be practical to enforce without creating a backlash population of sufficient size to make the problem worse. Plus if you can knock out a larger portion of the problem population with less confrontational measures then a lot of the issues go away.

 Vulcan wrote:
America has a pretty hefty drinking problem too. Maybe not as bad as England, but close.

The irony is that things like repeat DWIs are often punished with a minor fine, while the kid busted with a single joint once can see twenty years and more in prison

Newsflash: It's not the 1960's anymore.


Impaired driving is serious business in all 50 States, and since the 1980's have had increasingly strict punishments for driving under the influence. And those punishments entail more than "minor fines".They typically range the gauntlet from serious fines, loss of license (how long varies, but tends to lead to permanent loss of driving privileges), community service, mandatory courses, mandatory intervention, house arrest, court costs, all the way to jail time in the County pokey.

For repeat offenders, it's worse. Pulling prison time is a very real possibility, especially since they can now "stack" charges against the offender (such as driving without a license, etc)



Besides the Federal Government, cannabis is only illegal across the board in four States. And in those States, such harsh punishments tend to be extremely rare, and most long term sentences tend to get reduced for offenses involving small amounts (if they even get any time in the first place). The criminal justice system has long figured out that ridiculous sentences for minor crimes put costly drains on the State prison systems, including issues of housing. And the Feds are not going to waste their time to burn some poor schmuck with some personal smoke. They like to go after the bigger fish in the pond.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Clearly you have never been to Russia. When the life expectancy of men in your country is like 20 years less than other developed countries just because of excessive alcohol consumption, that is when you have an alcohol problem. Britain does not have a real alcohol problem.

Quite superstitious view - first of all - it's about 67 years average life expectancy for male in Russia and it's still growing (79 for male in UK, 74 in Poland)
second - alcohol consumption - is about 14.5 litres per capita in 2017 (including non-product alcohol) and it's declining (from 20 litres in 2004).
UK for instance have about 12 litres per capita.

Considering that normal level is about 8 litres - UK do have a problem with alcohol.

There's definitely a generational thing about it. I'm 30something, and drank a bit at uni then largely stopped (because I'm usually driving), but my parents and neighbours (all north of 60) don't think anything of polishing off a bottle of wine with every meal. Less so now that we dropped our drink-drive limit to nothing - you can't even have 1 and drive home.
I think it's partially awareness, partially cost, partially better entertainment and different pressures

I second that.
And I can say that my friends have the same thing.

 oldravenman3025 wrote:

 Vulcan wrote:
America has a pretty hefty drinking problem too. Maybe not as bad as England, but close.

The irony is that things like repeat DWIs are often punished with a minor fine, while the kid busted with a single joint once can see twenty years and more in prison

Newsflash: It's not the 1960's anymore.


Impaired driving is serious business in all 50 States, and since the 1980's have had increasingly strict punishments for driving under the influence. And those punishments entail more than "minor fines".They typically range the gauntlet from serious fines, loss of license (how long varies, but tends to lead to permanent loss of driving privileges), community service, mandatory courses, mandatory intervention, house arrest, court costs, all the way to jail time in the County pokey.

For repeat offenders, it's worse. Pulling prison time is a very real possibility, especially since they can now "stack" charges against the offender (such as driving without a license, etc)

Good post. A family friend received a DUI and it screwed her up for a good year. Lost her license for approximately 6 months (single mom living in Southern California - managing day-to-day life in this region without a car is tough) and paid close to $10k in fines and court fees. She was an idiot for driving drunk, but I would call her punishment anything but minor. It was a first time offense, so in that regard I think they went easier on her.

All the more reason to call a cab or use Lyft if you are drinking!

 simonr1978 wrote:
I think that would do more harm than good personally. I think a better move would be if pubs could lower their prices so that they were closer to supermarket prices rather than around 10x more expensive so that people didn't feel that had to pre-load in order to have an affordable night's drinking. I'm not saying it would solve the issue of drunken troublemakers, I just think it would be better for people to go out at 6 or 7 in the evening and start drinking then instead of already being half a dozen drinks in.

An outright ban or excessive taxing would encourage bootlegging, smuggling and counterfeiting.

This times one thousand.


In the Unites States, any restrictions on the sale and consumption of alchohol ranges has a mixed bag of issues, and many measures are a waste of time. Here in the South, there are still a few Counties in various States that are still "dry" in some way. In my home County here in North Carolina, unincorporated areas are still dry (only State-run ABC stores can operate in dry areas, and there is only one instance of that occurring here in Columbus County, because the town in question has town ordinances don't allow the sale of hard spirits within city limits). Some still have "blue laws" that don't allow sales on Sunday, either before noon/one P.M., to an outright ban on Sunday sales.

However, one only has to drive to the nearest incorporated community with a stop n' rob or grocery store after seven in the morning and before 2:30 AM (State law on sale/service hours-which is funny within itself. Business/stores can have stricter sales policies in-house), or cross the Country Line into a wet County that doesn't have blue laws. There are easy, legal ways around such limitations. Back in the day of a completely dry County, the bootleggers made a killing bringing bonded liquor and cases of beer across the State Line from South Carolina, to sell in juke joints across the County. All without running the risk of dancing with the Feds over moonshine.

If drinking is ingrained in a culture, it's difficult to put a damper on anything related to booze. Especially, if your culture prides itself on "I can do whatever the hell I want". We tried the serious route back in 1919. And you know how well that worked out.

The UK government may be stupid enough to try draconian measures, considering how much the general public has accepted the borderline Orwellian society that exists today. But when it comes to one of Britain's established national pasttimes, that crosses all social classes, they would be courting disaster in my opinion. If the public is pissed about an ineffectual police force now, they would get a real show if the government was dumb enough to clamp down on boozing with an iron fist (velvet glove or not).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 oldravenman3025 wrote:

 Vulcan wrote:
America has a pretty hefty drinking problem too. Maybe not as bad as England, but close.

The irony is that things like repeat DWIs are often punished with a minor fine, while the kid busted with a single joint once can see twenty years and more in prison

Newsflash: It's not the 1960's anymore.


Impaired driving is serious business in all 50 States, and since the 1980's have had increasingly strict punishments for driving under the influence. And those punishments entail more than "minor fines".They typically range the gauntlet from serious fines, loss of license (how long varies, but tends to lead to permanent loss of driving privileges), community service, mandatory courses, mandatory intervention, house arrest, court costs, all the way to jail time in the County pokey.

For repeat offenders, it's worse. Pulling prison time is a very real possibility, especially since they can now "stack" charges against the offender (such as driving without a license, etc)

Good post. A family friend received a DUI and it screwed her up for a good year. Lost her license for approximately 6 months (single mom living in Southern California - managing day-to-day life in this region without a car is tough) and paid close to $10k in fines and court fees. She was an idiot for driving drunk, but I would call her punishment anything but minor. It was a first time offense, so in that regard I think they went easier on her.

All the more reason to call a cab or use Lyft if you are drinking!

Agree 100%. I have several members of my family that have to rely on "pat n' charlie" (feet) because Booze + Motor Vehicle= Plenty of Exercise. And I don't feel sorry for them for being dumbasses. I never had the honor of knowing my paternal grandfather, because he was killed a year before I was born by a drunk in a Buick Wildcat T-boning his Rambler at over 100 miles per hour. And in my LE career, I've worked accident sites where booze and dead kids were involved. So, I tend to be a hardass when it comes to drinking and driving.

 filbert wrote:


I'm not trying to suggest it is anything to do with England or football but I do believe it has everything to do with the worrying attitude we have to alcohol consumption in this country.

I am one who happens to think that some sport definitely fuels some of the rest of drinking culture. . . In the US, I forget the percentages, but, we have a significant percentage of our national DUI, DV and related charges on the evening of the Super Bowl (American football). Throw in the "intense" followings of basketball and NASCAR (I won't throw in the bulk of remaining motorsport), and to a lesser degree baseball, hockey, and soccer.

Rugby is one sporting area that has been relatively positive, even with the consumption levels involved. However, I will note even here that there are the odd stories of people who cannot drink and behave that filter around the world.

As others have mentioned, strong drinking culture is problematic on its own, however I think that sports provide an outlet, or scapegoat/target that intensifies those problems above and beyond what they otherwise may be.

Thing is if it wasn't football it would be baseball; or tennis; or golf; or the horses or the dogs etc.... It's not that football causes anything unique outside of it being super popular and the culture around sporting events and going out including a lot of drinking to excess.


So football in itself has nothing to do with it; it simply highlights the underlaying social problem of the heavy drinking.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

Herbington wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Clearly you have never been to Russia. When the life expectancy of men in your country is like 20 years less than other developed countries just because of excessive alcohol consumption, that is when you have an alcohol problem. Britain does not have a real alcohol problem.

Just because Russia has a worse problem, doesn't mean Britain's problem isn't 'real'.

It depends on what you view as a problem.

In any case, alcohol problems aren't solvable in my opinion (at least not on the society level). Alcohol is too important to too many people, it is much more ingrained into society than something like smoking ever was. Plenty of countries, including the USA, Russia and the Soviet Union have tried to combat alcohol consumption in various ways, from increasing prices to propaganda to outright banning it. It has all failed, and most solutions have actually backfired spectacularly with results ranging from a massive increase in organised crime to increase in drug abuse to mass poisonings to riots and outright rebellions and revolution. In my opinion, if people want to get drunk, it would be unwise to try to stop them or make it difficult for them. I think it is better to focus on trying to limit damage drunk people can do, and try to encourage people to drink beer and other light alcoholic drinks rather than stuff with a higher alcohol content.

You can not get rid of alcohol in society.(alcohol is literlly the blood of our savior jesus christ/god )
The problem is not that people drink alcohol, its this excessiv party/social drinking. (which pushes the most people over the egde to alcoholism)
In my opinion we are on the best way getting rid of it, by making good enlightenment and prevention work.
But otherwise we need to take a step further and ban this huge marketing campaign from the alcohol industry,
which creates new alcoholics by making funny, harmles and emotional ads for a product which kills mass of people.

 Overread wrote:
You could curb it significantly right now if you banned or taxed the sale of alcohol outside of pubs/places of consumption (ergo supermarkets) so that the prices were brought into line with hte current pub-prices of alcohol.

If that's the case, people would simply drink hand sanitizer.


(it's very cheap grain alcohol)

 Omega-soul wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Clearly you have never been to Russia. When the life expectancy of men in your country is like 20 years less than other developed countries just because of excessive alcohol consumption, that is when you have an alcohol problem. Britain does not have a real alcohol problem.

Quite superstitious view - first of all - it's about 67 years average life expectancy for male in Russia and it's still growing (79 for male in UK, 74 in Poland)
second - alcohol consumption - is about 14.5 litres per capita in 2017 (including non-product alcohol) and it's declining (from 20 litres in 2004).
UK for instance have about 12 litres per capita.

Considering that normal level is about 8 litres - UK do have a problem with alcohol.

There's definitely a generational thing about it. I'm 30something, and drank a bit at uni then largely stopped (because I'm usually driving), but my parents and neighbours (all north of 60) don't think anything of polishing off a bottle of wine with every meal. Less so now that we dropped our drink-drive limit to nothing - you can't even have 1 and drive home.
I think it's partially awareness, partially cost, partially better entertainment and different pressures

I second that.
And I can say that my friends have the same thing.

I agree. I rarely drink, and so do most of my friends (both here in the West and back home). But my dad drinks a bottle of vodka (or sometimes whiskey) a week, and then he also often drinks wine. The situation in Russia is improving. But only because it could not get worse.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
But my dad drinks a bottle of vodka (or sometimes whiskey) a week, and then he also often drinks wine.

A bottle per week? That's hardly drinking at all, maybe some cork sniffing! My brother used to have a bottle of vodka just to wake up, then a second one to get through the day. Not those one-drink souvenir bottles but full one-liter things. At times it was so bad that he complained the rest of us (not exactly absolutists) just gave up when the party was finally about to get started...

Luckily he stopped after complaining that his kidneys were "wailing" if they didn't get enough alcohol to deal with. Been clean for over a year now.

Spetulhu wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
But my dad drinks a bottle of vodka (or sometimes whiskey) a week, and then he also often drinks wine.

A bottle per week? That's hardly drinking at all, maybe some cork sniffing! My brother used to have a bottle of vodka just to wake up, then a second one to get through the day. Not those one-drink souvenir bottles but full one-liter things. At times it was so bad that he complained the rest of us (not exactly absolutists) just gave up when the party was finally about to get started...

Luckily he stopped after complaining that his kidneys were "wailing" if they didn't get enough alcohol to deal with. Been clean for over a year now.

That part about kidneys needing alcohol sounds a lot like what my grandfather used to say. I don't know exactly he much he drank, but it certainly was a lot more than my father ever did. He made his own really smelly vodka and I could never tell if he was just always drunk or if he could just drink so much without ever getting drunk or if there was just no difference between him being drunk or being sober. I can't blame him though. If I had lived through what he had to live through I probably would have started drinking so much as well. He also smoked almost constantly, but still got really old. Some people just are lucky I guess.
I also guess that this story supports the theory that alcohol use declines by generation even more. At least for the last three generations, since I have heard stories that my great-grandfather was a teetotaler and actually burned down a store for secretly selling vodka once (selling alcohol was prohibited at the time).

I very rarely drink anymore, but I used to drink a lot when I was younger.

I used to play rugby, and so every Saturday would be spent after the game in the clubhouse, drinking solidly and having a laugh with friends. Sometimes we even went out to the local town and party till 3am sometimes!

However, I started to get tired of this after 9 years of it, and luckily I met my then future wife so I could get out of the drinking completely. The boys at this point were going crazy on the nights out, and I later found out most of them were on the "showbiz sherbert" and I wanted nothing to do with that. They used to do that as it counteracted being drunk.

So yeah, drink for me is nothing special, after seeing its stupidity first hand too often.

Here in the U.S., according to CDC statistics, alcohol is responsible for 10% of the deaths of working age Americans annually. It kills 8 times the number of people as are murdered in gun related crime.

https://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/alcohol-use.htm

Children are also heavily impacted by it over here

https://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/underage-drinking.htm

It makes me wonder why we still have advertisements glorifying it.

Relapse wrote:

It makes me wonder why we still have advertisements glorifying it.

Because in the wake of the Volstead Act and the repeal of Prohibition, the Alcohol lobbyists are extremely powerful compared to say, smoking or some others. On the business side of things, they provide a huge amount of funding to sporting organizations (just watch commercials during a NASCAR race or an NFL game, and note how many are for booze), and those organizations are loathe to give up that kind of money.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

Relapse wrote:

It makes me wonder why we still have advertisements glorifying it.

Because in the wake of the Volstead Act and the repeal of Prohibition, the Alcohol lobbyists are extremely powerful compared to say, smoking or some others. On the business side of things, they provide a huge amount of funding to sporting organizations (just watch commercials during a NASCAR race or an NFL game, and note how many are for booze), and those organizations are loathe to give up that kind of money.

Yeah, that is a good point. This big lobby have a huge amount of friends because they sponsor. It would be incredibly hard to remove "your local beer company name/logo" in all the stadiums, bars, clothings and on and on.
I had the idea that, alcohol companys should not have any kind of branding. Every alcohol bottle should have the easiest "standard" bottle in in restricted diffrent sizes and ristricted diffrent colors, and a white bottle label. And on this label would be written in "Times New Roman" with standardised Layout something like "Rum" the ingredients the name of the company.

But in reallity this would show just an result in maybe 30 years.

That sounds like the packaging for generic brands of food, etc. from the 80’s when they actually did that.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Omega-soul wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Clearly you have never been to Russia. When the life expectancy of men in your country is like 20 years less than other developed countries just because of excessive alcohol consumption, that is when you have an alcohol problem. Britain does not have a real alcohol problem.

Quite superstitious view - first of all - it's about 67 years average life expectancy for male in Russia and it's still growing (79 for male in UK, 74 in Poland)
second - alcohol consumption - is about 14.5 litres per capita in 2017 (including non-product alcohol) and it's declining (from 20 litres in 2004).
UK for instance have about 12 litres per capita.

Considering that normal level is about 8 litres - UK do have a problem with alcohol.

There's definitely a generational thing about it. I'm 30something, and drank a bit at uni then largely stopped (because I'm usually driving), but my parents and neighbours (all north of 60) don't think anything of polishing off a bottle of wine with every meal. Less so now that we dropped our drink-drive limit to nothing - you can't even have 1 and drive home.
I think it's partially awareness, partially cost, partially better entertainment and different pressures

I second that.
And I can say that my friends have the same thing.

An article on alcohol damage to Russians:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/qz.com/403307/russia-is-quite-literally-drinking-itself-to-death/amp/


That being said, whether it’s the whole top floor or a room on fire in a house, there is definitely a huge problem with fire.