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I don't see any reason why a new Abaddon would be any larger than a Primaris Aggressor, or the Death Guard lord from Dark Imperium. Not every character has to be gigantic, especially as Abaddon is just a Space Marine. Back in the days of metals, I made my Abaddon out of a metal Obliterator.

GW needs to kick it's latest 'embiggening' obsession.

 Crimson wrote:

 Lotus Corgi wrote:


In the 2nd edition chaos codex it was stated that Abby favored Horus so much it was rumored he was a “gene-son” iirc...

Yes, but in the old fluff Primarchs were not stupidly large.

I guess it depends on how old you mean by 'old'. In the Heresy books, Horus is described as being as much bigger as an Astartes, as an Astartes is bigger than a normal human. So the Primarchs are pretty big.

But then, those books are only 12 years old, which is old... but it's not 'old'.

Niiru wrote:

I guess it depends on how old you mean by 'old'. In the Heresy books, Horus is described as being as much bigger as an Astartes, as an Astartes is bigger than a normal human. So the Primarchs are pretty big.

But then, those books are only 12 years old, which is old... but it's not 'old'.

By 'old' I mean the time before the Black Library started butchering the fluff.

 Crimson wrote:

Niiru wrote:

I guess it depends on how old you mean by 'old'. In the Heresy books, Horus is described as being as much bigger as an Astartes, as an Astartes is bigger than a normal human. So the Primarchs are pretty big.

But then, those books are only 12 years old, which is old... but it's not 'old'.

By 'old' I mean the time before the Black Library started butchering the fluff.

I'd say that the quality of the fluff has followed a bit of a bell curve. The early-early fluff was pretty terrible, as it was pretty much just written randomly buy some guys based on whatever ideas they thought sounded cool at the time.

Then actual writers became involved, and the stories became a bit more coherant and there was actual continuity (sometimes, at least...).

Then more recently... yeh. Too many Mary Sues.

But I'm on the audiobooks for the Horus Rising trilogy right now, and have been thoroughly enjoying them. I wouldn't count them in butchering anything, personally. But obviously your opinion might vary, and that's fine too

 Crimson wrote:

Niiru wrote:

I guess it depends on how old you mean by 'old'. In the Heresy books, Horus is described as being as much bigger as an Astartes, as an Astartes is bigger than a normal human. So the Primarchs are pretty big.

But then, those books are only 12 years old, which is old... but it's not 'old'.

By 'old' I mean the time before the Black Library started butchering the fluff.

Outside of the very, very early fluff, the primarchs have always been described as being a good deal bigger than a standard Astartes. older artwork shows that.

HoundsofDemos wrote:


Outside of the very, very early fluff, the primarchs have always been described as being a good deal bigger than a standard Astartes. older artwork shows that.

Maybe a tad bigger (though I don't remember any such artwork) but they were basically roughly marine sized and used the same gear (for example, Lion Helm.)



Ranulf the Strong was the biggest Space Wolf ever, larger than Russ. He was depicted to be about a head taller than normal marines.

To be fair depending on how you go back the Primarchs weren't even super humans. I'd say that a few miss steps aside the HH novels have been pretty good and forge world has created some great rules and models for them.

 Crimson wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:


Outside of the very, very early fluff, the primarchs have always been described as being a good deal bigger than a standard Astartes. older artwork shows that.

Maybe a tad bigger (though I don't remember any such artwork) but they were basically roughly marine sized and used the same gear (for example, Lion Helm.)



Ranulf the Strong was the biggest Space Wolf ever, larger than Russ. He was depicted to be about a head taller than normal marines.

Yeh but that's back in the days where all of the models were a lot smaller and simpler. Ranulf there is probably smaller than a standard terminator nowadays.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
To be fair depending on how you go back the Primarchs weren't even super humans. I'd say that a few miss steps aside the HH novels have been pretty good and forge world has created some great rules and models for them.

And if you go back that far marines weren't super-human either - they were just psychos and convicts pumped full of drugs and crammed into power armour.

Niiru wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:


Outside of the very, very early fluff, the primarchs have always been described as being a good deal bigger than a standard Astartes. older artwork shows that.

Maybe a tad bigger (though I don't remember any such artwork) but they were basically roughly marine sized and used the same gear (for example, Lion Helm.)



Ranulf the Strong was the biggest Space Wolf ever, larger than Russ. He was depicted to be about a head taller than normal marines.

Yeh but that's back in the days where all of the models were a lot smaller and simpler. Ranulf there is probably smaller than a standard terminator nowadays.

What that has to do with anything? It was about relative size.

 Scott-S6 wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
To be fair depending on how you go back the Primarchs weren't even super humans. I'd say that a few miss steps aside the HH novels have been pretty good and forge world has created some great rules and models for them.

And if you go back that far marines weren't super-human either - they were just psychos and convicts pumped full of drugs and crammed into power armour.

Marines got their various implants pretty early on in the lore, second heart, spitting acid, etc. I want to say that was still in the Rogue Trader days, far prior to the idea of Primarchs ballooning in scale.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
To be fair depending on how you go back the Primarchs weren't even super humans. I'd say that a few miss steps aside the HH novels have been pretty good and forge world has created some great rules and models for them.

And if you go back that far marines weren't super-human either - they were just psychos and convicts pumped full of drugs and crammed into power armour.

Marines got their various implants pretty early on in the lore, second heart, spitting acid, etc. I want to say that was still in the Rogue Trader days, far prior to the idea of Primarchs ballooning in scale.

The rogue trader book has them as indocrinated criminals.

Thats not mutually exclusive to their receiving of superhuman abilities/organs, however. I'm just wondering how soon after the Rogue Trader book that happened. I believe it was still prior to 2nd Ed.

Five months after the original RT book came out, in WD98, Rick Priestley wrote the definitive article on how Space Marines are created. The procedure he described has not changed since, except for the addition of primarchs as the ultimate source of SM geneseed. And even the RT book itself talks about them having surgery to give them combat capabilities far beyond any normal man.

"Surgically altered into superhuman warriors" is in the RT book. As is the Black Carapace, even though the other organs aren't mentioned specifically until WD98. And it's started that most are feral world natives, not convicts.

I kind of like the Primaris size tbh, Marines sat beside Guardsmen don't look remotely taller, when you count the height gained from thick boot soles and a tall helmet. The primarias line really do look like they have a few feet on a regular human.

 scommy wrote:
anyone else think it looks meh? Do people do proxys for him?

Just be glad you never had to assemble the metal Abaddon.

I second the wargame exlusive model the quality of the sculpt is incredible

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 scommy wrote:
anyone else think it looks meh? Do people do proxys for him?

Just be glad you never had to assemble the metal Abaddon.

Metal Abaddon is a pretty easy build. Go build a 2nd Ed Land Speeder and get back to me.

 FrothingMuppet wrote:
I couldnever figure out why we didnt see a new Abaddon during the Gathering Storm - his biggest triumph and nothing. Also, whats he been doing since then - do we know? The Indominus crusade whnt for 100 years. Did Abaddon just sit the whole thing out after splitting the galaxy in two?

He was to busy wrangling the children in for nap time so he could start planning the next stage. Some say hes still screaming that its not a tumor to a audience of world eaters and night lords.

The fact that Chaos got essentially nothing from the end times books models or rules wise bothered me a lot.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
The fact that Chaos got essentially nothing from the end times books models or rules wise bothered me a lot.

They got new enemies, does that count?

 AegisGrimm wrote:
GW needs to kick it's latest 'embiggening' obsession.

100% agree. I totally get that bigger models can have more detail and are generally less fragile, but some models should just not be so big.
I hate the new Pink Horrors for this reason. The previous metal versions where smaller than a Gaurdsmen, which was appropriate for a squishy magic squid thing. The new plastics have them as big as a Space Marine. Ridiculous.

If anything, models should be getting smaller to better match the scale of vehicles as you would think it'd be more feasible to scale down rather then start making Baneblade-sized Rhinos

-

 osmesis wrote:
I second the wargame exlusive model the quality of the sculpt is incredible

How big is this model compared to a regular GW Space Marine?

Thanks

SG