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2018/07/20 10:35:38
Subject: The Emperors consciousness on the throne?
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Frenzied Berserker Terminator
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Andykp wrote: Delvarus Centurion wrote: Corennus wrote:You'd think that the same technology that created the Armour of Fate would help to regenerate the Emperor.
Have the Golden Throne draw power directly from the webway beneath it and have the sacrifice of psykers regenerate the Emperor.
But the Emperor isn't technically in stasis like Girlyman was. The throne is keeping him alive through burning of 1000 psykers a day, so the Emperor is practically a skeleton because of entropy, so I doubt it will be as easy as bringing back Girlyman.
atrophy. Not entropy.
No atrophy happens when you don't use your muscles for a long period of time or the cells degenerate, so you are right but, entropy is the the level or disorder in a system and the expenditure of energy from a system, so aging/decomposing is in effect just high entropy. Just two ways of explaining degeneration.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Corennus wrote:thing is if he's a perpetual shouldn't he naturally regenerate anyway? it's only cause he's on the Throne that he can't
perpetuals can still die if they are damaged in the right way, as in degree of damage or symbolic weapons like the fulgarite used to kill Vulkan.
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This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2018/07/20 10:45:59
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2018/07/20 11:05:24
Subject: The Emperors consciousness on the throne?
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Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'
Kapuskasing, ON
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Except Vulkan wasn't killed.
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2018/07/20 11:08:38
Subject: The Emperors consciousness on the throne?
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Frenzied Berserker Terminator
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Well technically he was, he just came back, for whatever reason the fulgarite didn't work, but my point is that perpetuals can die as pointed out by the cabal.
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2018/07/20 11:41:46
Subject: The Emperors consciousness on the throne?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Corennus wrote:thing is if he's a perpetual shouldn't he naturally regenerate anyway? it's only cause he's on the Throne that he can't
Which way around is it though? Can he not regenerate because he is stuck on the throne? Or is he stuck on the throne because he cannot regenerate?
I am sure if it were feasible, the Emperor would regenerate. Who would want to spend 10K years stuck inside a rotting corpse? This suggests he cannot and there are 2 most probable reasons.
1. It would take time (Perpetuals don't jump back up instantly). Possibly the time it would take the Emperor to regenerate would be too long as Daemons would flood all of Terra without him holding the webway portal shut. On the other hand, in "Mast of Mankind" the Emperor does get off the throne for a short time with a battery of psykers powering it in his place. This suggests that there must be a different reason.
2. The Emperor cannot regenerate. Each Perpetual is different. Maybe the Emperor's flavour of immortality is a single everlasting body rather than regenerating or simply popping up somwehere else. In this case, the damage done by Horus on the Vengeful Spirit may have been such the Emperor's body has been damaged beyond its ability to heal so plugging him into the throne was the only way to stop him dying permanently. This explanation makes a lot more sense. Automatically Appended Next Post: BrianDavion wrote:Andykp wrote:|Was it in any books what the said to roboute or do we just have the big blues version of events?
we've never seen what transpired between them, and hopefully beyond some hints we never will.
Guilliman recalls the meeting in "Dark Imperium". The snippet below is his "inner" memory so is basically an omniscient view of what happened (or at least how Guilliman perceived it).
Guilliman had expected nothing.
But He spoke.
With words of light and fire, the Emperor had conferred with His returned primarch, the last of His finest creations.
A creation. Not a son.
The living Emperor had been an artful being, as skilled at hiding His thoughts as He was at reading those of others. What remained of Him was powerful beyond comprehension, but it lacked the subtlety He had had whilst He walked among men. Speaking with the Emperor had been like conversing with a star. The Emperor’s words burned him.
What hurt most deeply was what went unsaid.
The Emperor greeted Guilliman not as a father receives a son, but as a craftsmen who rediscovers a favourite tool that he thought lost. He behaved like a prisoner locked in an iron cage who is passed a rasp.
Guilliman had no illusions. He was not the man who brought the rasp; he was the rasp. While the Emperor had walked abroad, He had cloaked His manipulations in love. He had let His primarchs call Him father; He had let them call themselves His sons. He had rarely spoken those words Himself, Guilliman now realised, and when He had He had done so without sincerity.
Buffeted by the full might of the Emperor’s will unclothed in flesh, a cloak had been ripped from Guilliman’s eyes.
The Emperor had allowed them to love Him, and to believe He loved them in return. He had not. His primarchs were weapons, that was all.
Though His power was immense, perhaps greater than it had been before He ascended, the Emperor’s humanity was all but gone. He could no longer mask His thoughts with a human face. The Emperor’s light was blinding, all encompassing, but finally – finally – Guilliman had seen it as a whole. The being he had thought of as a father could hide nothing from him.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/20 11:46:10
I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star. |
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2018/07/20 12:03:30
Subject: Re:The Emperors consciousness on the throne?
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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right, and thats about all we know, we dunno what transpired exactly. If Gulliman is just dutifully following a plan given by the emperor or what. How much of what Gulliman is doing Gulliman's plan? How much is the direct orders of the Emperor?
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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2018/07/20 16:50:58
Subject: The Emperors consciousness on the throne?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Well if as stated The Emperor could hide nothing from Guilliman then the “new plan” must be fine withThe Emperor.
By the way The Emperor isn’t a skeleton/corpse because He’s been on the Throne for 10k years. He’s like that because of the damage Horus inflicted on Him.
I also fully expect if He was able to regenerate He would. It’s obly biomancy after all which He is probably quite adept at.
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2018/07/20 16:57:54
Subject: The Emperors consciousness on the throne?
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Frenzied Berserker Terminator
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Mellow wrote:Well if as stated The Emperor could hide nothing from Guilliman then the “new plan” must be fine withThe Emperor.
By the way The Emperor isn’t a skeleton/corpse because He’s been on the Throne for 10k years. He’s like that because of the damage Horus inflicted on Him.
I also fully expect if He was able to regenerate He would. It’s obly biomancy after all which He is probably quite adept at.
He wasn't like that because of Horus. There are hardly any cells of him still alive, how could he have made the trip from the vengeful spirit to the golden throne with a few cells left in his body even if he is the emperor. Horus tore off his arm and shattered his internal organs, he didn't turn him into a corpse. His body is decaying, the lore says so.
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This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2018/07/20 17:18:02
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2018/07/20 17:39:14
Subject: Re:The Emperors consciousness on the throne?
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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BrianDavion wrote:right, and thats about all we know, we dunno what transpired exactly. If Gulliman is just dutifully following a plan given by the emperor or what. How much of what Gulliman is doing Gulliman's plan? How much is the direct orders of the Emperor?
Exactly, it’s not like a blow by blow account more about his emotions of it. No word on how the emperor communicated or did. I like to believe that the emperor said nothing good to gulliman so he made up his own plan and said it was his dads.
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2018/07/22 08:03:21
Subject: The Emperors consciousness on the throne?
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Unhealthy Competition With Other Legions
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The quote of Guillimans does seem to imply that the emperor sees hope through the return of a Primarch “behaved like a prisoner in an iron cage who is offered a rasp.” Guilliman may be just a tool, but if wielded correctly, perhaps it’s implied that he could contribute to the Emperor being freed from the throne, or perhaps free humanity from eternal war?
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2018/07/22 08:37:22
Subject: The Emperors consciousness on the throne?
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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agurus1 wrote:The quote of Guillimans does seem to imply that the emperor sees hope through the return of a Primarch “behaved like a prisoner in an iron cage who is offered a rasp.” Guilliman may be just a tool, but if wielded correctly, perhaps it’s implied that he could contribute to the Emperor being freed from the throne, or perhaps free humanity from eternal war?
We'll never know how much of Gulliman's actions and decisions are his, and whats Imperial edict. heck for all we know the HH novels could reveal Primaris Marines where the emperor's design and Cawl had been directed to "develop them and perpare them until given the order"
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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2018/07/22 11:39:08
Subject: Re:The Emperors consciousness on the throne?
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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I think with Cawl and roboutes memory issues they have deliberately left plot holes open add intrigue and give them wriggle room in the future. The the heresey series answering too many questions for my liking I’m pleased to have the mystery back. I kind of hope that roboute sat in the throne room looking at a corpse that did nothing at all and then left. Telling everyone he had had a good chat ! I know it’s not what they say but it would add a nice element to it.
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2018/07/23 10:09:42
Subject: Re:The Emperors consciousness on the throne?
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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Thinking about the affection bit of your question, you could argue he never had that much affection judging by his actions. (Cue quote from dev that says he loved them). But he kills millions and millions and millions of them. Exterminates whole societies. Wages a war across the whole galaxy. A thousand of them a sacrificed just to keep him alive. I think he cares for his version of humanity, his vision of it, and maybe a few individuals. But as a whole he seems to be pretty mean to them.
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2018/07/23 16:23:24
Subject: The Emperors consciousness on the throne?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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He certainly has a vision for what humanity should become, which seems to be something akin to fertile psychic custodes (given the fluff in the Custodes codex, and is a pretty compelling reason for why he actually cared about the custodes- they were his golden heralds of the destiny of humanity, the model for what the species will become). But he also wants humanity to grow into that mold rather than take a short cut and just make them.
To me its no surprise he would be willing to kill millions- he has to race against the clock of chaos, shaping and reshaping societal values and norms, and (kind of) using eugenics to shape the path of humanity. There isn't any single person of importance in that mission (the closest thing to that is him, and even he is an amalgamation of different people into a single entity). Likes wise by the point of 30k hes been alive for (at least) 30000 years... It's hard to imagine anybody who has seen that many generations of normal humans live and die not seeing individuals or even whole societies as not worth much in amd of themselves.
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2018/07/23 17:59:07
Subject: The Emperors consciousness on the throne?
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Fixture of Dakka
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What does the codex say? Seems weird to try and get all humanity to be like Custodes and then not make that many in the scheme of things.
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tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam |
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2018/07/23 18:11:11
Subject: The Emperors consciousness on the throne?
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Damsel of the Lady
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It's important to note too that Emps might be losing it. Guilliman interpreted it as a veil being removed and decided to have a good, teenage angst that dad never loved him, but that doesn't mean it's exactly true. It could very well be that it was less having a veil removed and more literally having the Emperor's human feelings bruned out of his consciousness through the thousands of years of becoming a pseudo-warp-god.
Meaning he had it during the Heresy, but the longer he stays on that throne the more alien, remote and generally Chaos Gody he becomes.
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2018/07/23 18:20:13
Subject: The Emperors consciousness on the throne?
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Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces
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Karhedron wrote:I think one of the characters in MoM (probably Malcador) observed that the Emperor loved Mankind but not individuals.
He is basically the God-Emperor from Frank Herbert's Dune novels. He is concerned with the survival of the species. If that means treating individual members of it poorly that does not bother him.
IIRC, GW even ported the 'Golden Path' name over from Dune.
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2018/07/23 23:59:27
Subject: Re:The Emperors consciousness on the throne?
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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Been alive that long, suppose a normal life is like a blink of the eye.
I still think he is that fractured busying himself all over galaxy that there isn’t much left to talk to. So maybe when roboute turned up all that he spoke to was a broken mess.
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2018/07/24 00:38:17
Subject: The Emperors consciousness on the throne?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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You know, someone should just give him a text-to-speech device. Then we'd know exactly what it was like for him and what he thinks about quite a number of things.
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2018/07/24 03:16:46
Subject: The Emperors consciousness on the throne?
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Frenzied Berserker Terminator
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agurus1 wrote:The quote of Guillimans does seem to imply that the emperor sees hope through the return of a Primarch “behaved like a prisoner in an iron cage who is offered a rasp.” Guilliman may be just a tool, but if wielded correctly, perhaps it’s implied that he could contribute to the Emperor being freed from the throne, or perhaps free humanity from eternal war?
Seeing that 9 Primarchs and arguably two more turned against the Emperor, its pretty easy to assume they have free will.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Andykp wrote:I think with Cawl and roboutes memory issues they have deliberately left plot holes open add intrigue and give them wriggle room in the future. The the heresey series answering too many questions for my liking I’m pleased to have the mystery back. I kind of hope that roboute sat in the throne room looking at a corpse that did nothing at all and then left. Telling everyone he had had a good chat ! I know it’s not what they say but it would add a nice element to it.
I agree with you, though I think if he actually didn't talk to him, he'd invent a better dialogue saying that the Emperor was great and loving to inspire people.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Andykp wrote:Thinking about the affection bit of your question, you could argue he never had that much affection judging by his actions. (Cue quote from dev that says he loved them). But he kills millions and millions and millions of them. Exterminates whole societies. Wages a war across the whole galaxy. A thousand of them a sacrificed just to keep him alive. I think he cares for his version of humanity, his vision of it, and maybe a few individuals. But as a whole he seems to be pretty mean to them.
He never had much affection for the Primarchs, its evident in watchers of the throne, the Emperor even likened them to pinnochio saying that the toy called his maker father and in that he knows how important it is for the Primarchs to think he is there father but the Emperor admitted to Ra he never returned that affection. I agree I think he thinks of them with disdain, he doesn't like the fact that all they care about is glory and tells Ra that he "prefers" or likes/loves (all can be debatable) the custodes more.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Andykp wrote:Been alive that long, suppose a normal life is like a blink of the eye.
I still think he is that fractured busying himself all over galaxy that there isn’t much left to talk to. So maybe when roboute turned up all that he spoke to was a broken mess.
Yeah I think his immortality has made him become so detached from humans, he still cares for them but in a very different way that we would understand it.
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/07/24 03:23:52
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2018/07/24 06:00:20
Subject: The Emperors consciousness on the throne?
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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Delvarus Centurion wrote:agurus1 wrote:The quote of Guillimans does seem to imply that the emperor sees hope through the return of a Primarch “behaved like a prisoner in an iron cage who is offered a rasp.” Guilliman may be just a tool, but if wielded correctly, perhaps it’s implied that he could contribute to the Emperor being freed from the throne, or perhaps free humanity from eternal war?
Seeing that 9 Primarchs and arguably two more turned against the Emperor, its pretty easy to assume they have free will.
I don't think the quote about Gulliman being a tool to be wielded was meant to imply he lacked free will, rather that if Gulliman was given the right directions, told to do the right things, he could contribute to...
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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2018/07/24 07:23:00
Subject: The Emperors consciousness on the throne?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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“Freeing himself from the jail”
All part of His master plan ... queue manic laughter.
If you lived that long you wouldn’t worry about forming bonds with people that disappear after what feels like a few moments.
Also, I feel it’s pretty obvious why He “likes” the Custodians more than the Primarchs. I mean. None of them turned traitor ... did they?
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