Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Strg Alt wrote:

 unitled wrote:

 Strg Alt wrote:
I guess you have to houserule this multi-damage affair. It just doesn´t feel right to roll only once on the injury table, if a model suffered multiple wounds from a single shot.

It encourages you to spread your shots from weapons around more as there's a limit to how much damage a weapon can do to a model in a single shot. Also, pretty much anything beyond 2 dice is *very* likely to take a model out anyway, meaning multiple damage rolls for a weapon like that would be largely redundant.

I beg to differ. Just from my N17 experience, a meltagun shot to the face hurts. A lot. And rightfully so. It´s way more dangerous than to be hit by a laspistol. I also read a few comments on this board that the inclusion of meltaguns should be avoided due to poor range and it´s attached modifiers to hit. This an unhealthy result due to poor rule writing. If you get shot by a meltagun then it´s usually game over for the model in question.

Right, but... this is pretty much exactly what happens? Typically for a meltagun you roll D6 injury dice, and if you roll a 3 for the number of injury dice that's an 88% chance of out of action (4 or more injury dice and you're OOA ~95%+). Bear in mind the Meltas have the same melta rule, so at close range you're usually going to be rolling 4 or more dice for injuries. The only thing you can't do is stack multiple flesh wounds, which would be the result of a really poor roll from the attacker anyway.

Meltas are good for what they're good for... short range against heavy targets (lots of armour and/or wounds). Anything single shot (snipers aside) will suffer due to poor accuracy in Kill Team, that's just how it works.

 unitled wrote:

 Strg Alt wrote:

 unitled wrote:

 Strg Alt wrote:
I guess you have to houserule this multi-damage affair. It just doesn´t feel right to roll only once on the injury table, if a model suffered multiple wounds from a single shot.

It encourages you to spread your shots from weapons around more as there's a limit to how much damage a weapon can do to a model in a single shot. Also, pretty much anything beyond 2 dice is *very* likely to take a model out anyway, meaning multiple damage rolls for a weapon like that would be largely redundant.

I beg to differ. Just from my N17 experience, a meltagun shot to the face hurts. A lot. And rightfully so. It´s way more dangerous than to be hit by a laspistol. I also read a few comments on this board that the inclusion of meltaguns should be avoided due to poor range and it´s attached modifiers to hit. This an unhealthy result due to poor rule writing. If you get shot by a meltagun then it´s usually game over for the model in question.

Right, but... this is pretty much exactly what happens? Typically for a meltagun you roll D6 injury dice, and if you roll a 3 for the number of injury dice that's an 88% chance of out of action (4 or more injury dice and you're OOA ~95%+). Bear in mind the Meltas have the same melta rule, so at close range you're usually going to be rolling 4 or more dice for injuries. The only thing you can't do is stack multiple flesh wounds, which would be the result of a really poor roll from the attacker anyway.

Meltas are good for what they're good for... short range against heavy targets (lots of armour and/or wounds). Anything single shot (snipers aside) will suffer due to poor accuracy in Kill Team, that's just how it works.

Thanks for the explanation. I had a demo game last weekend and the guy doing the demo told me that you only roll ONE injury die irrespective of the total number of wounds the model suffered. But the models involved couldn´t cause multiple wounds in one go, so it didn´t matter for the game.

 danyboy wrote:

Aezeal wrote:

Wait. I disagree. Well not with the actual wording.. because IF you actually get 0 wounds (OOA) it true.. but you assume a flesh wound is the same.

You slow roll... Good. . I'll do the same:

Hit wound for the first shot. The first shot would do 2 damage. Forcing a double injury roll. I agree with that. But if the target is not ooa it recieves a (single, not 2, only apply the highest result) flesh wound.
THEN
the target regains 1 wound.
THEN
You pick a target for the 2nd shot... A lo and behold the same bugger is still there .. With 1 wound even. So you shoot at him again and make him take (dice gods willing) another double injury roll (at +1 wven for the previous fleshwound).

No logical flaws right?

Additional evidence: page 28 fast dice rolling insert. Last line: your opponent can then make save rolls one at a time AND suffer damage EACH TIME as appropriate.

4. Shooting Phase, Step 3. Resolve Attacks, point 4. Inflict Damage:
"(...) If a model’s wounds are reduced to 0, any further attacks directed against this model by the attacking weapon are not resolved, and then the player controlling the attacking model makes an Injury roll for the target model (see overleaf)."

At step 3 Resolve Attacks you have already specified how many shoots will be at this specific target (see Step 2. Choose Ranged Weapon and Targets > Number of Attacks).
If at step 2 you said 50 attacks (imaginary weapon) and at step 3. first shot will hit and reduce wounds to 0 all other 49 attacks are lost.

Yes that is the sequence but:
Please read: page 28 the insert bottom left: EACH shooting attack uses the following sequence.
AND then I refer again to the 2nd insert next to it on the right as before.

And on page 30:
3. Resolve attacks: attacks can be made one at at time: The following sequence is used to make attacks ONE AT A TIME (and then the sequence you mention... ending in damage.. and then the next shot.

And then we have point 4 on page 31 and the end of damage characteristic on page 32:
which messes everything up and makes it unclear to me. Since each attack individually inflicts damage in the sequence and IF one of the shots inflicts damage you get 0 wounds and THEN you make an injury roll and get back to 1 wound if it's a flesh wound.
So either the stuff I've been focussing on has been written illogical (and you are right) OR the paragraph is superflues (in which case I'd be right).

I guess you are right but I really think the stuff I mentioned above points in another direction.

Aezeal wrote:

Yes that is the sequence but:
Please read: page 28 the insert bottom left: EACH shooting attack uses the following sequence.
AND then I refer again to the 2nd insert next to it on the right as before.

And on page 30:
3. Resolve attacks: attacks can be made one at at time: The following sequence is used to make attacks ONE AT A TIME (and then the sequence you mention... ending in damage.. and then the next shot.

And then we have point 4 on page 31 and the end of damage characteristic on page 32:
which messes everything up and makes it unclear to me. Since each attack individually inflicts damage in the sequence and IF one of the shots inflicts damage you get 0 wounds and THEN you make an injury roll and get back to 1 wound if it's a flesh wound.
So either the stuff I've been focussing on has been written illogical (and you are right) OR the paragraph is superflues (in which case I'd be right).

I guess you are right but I really think the stuff I mentioned above points in another direction.

Proper sequence:

1. Choose Model to Shoot With
- "Steven the Allmighty"

2. Choose Ranged Weapon and Targets
- Steven's HugeBolter with 50 attacks each with Damage 1.
2a) Range and Visbility:
- Checked
2b) Number of Attacks and 2c) Targets
- No split attacks, all 50 will go at "Rob the Poor Bastard" (Wounds:1)
---
Decisions has been made, now:
---
3. Resolve Attacks (here you do it one at a time, no fast dice rolling)
Attack number: 1.
3.1 Hit Roll: Hit!
3.2 Wound Roll: Wound!
3.3. Saving Throw: Failed
3.4. Inflict Damage: Wounds reduced to 0
Quote: "any further attacks directed against this model by the attacking weapon are not resolved"
So we discard remaining 49 attacks
Then:
Quote: "the player controlling the attacking model makes an Injury roll for the target model"
We do the Injury Roll, don't matter what the outcome is, step 3 has ended.
---
4. Choose Another Ranged Weapon and Targets
---
End of shooting phase for that attacking model.


You are not allowed to ignore rules from step 3.4 and go back to step 3.1 if model regained 1 wound due to lucky Injury Roll.

That's how it's written. That's how it works. Personally I really, really don't like it.

So i have do „fast dice roll“ to avoid that my remaining attacks (49 from Steve above) are lost?

Soldier #243 wrote:
So i have do „fast dice roll“ to avoid that my remaining attacks (49 from Steve above) are lost?

It doesn't matter how you roll, if you have a D1 weapon you can only ever cause one Injury roll regardless of how many hits you score.

I like it. It's not a bloodbath like 40k is and it actually takes a little work (or luck) to take guys out of action.

We played a SM vs Tau game where SM lost 2 guys and Tau lost 5 drones in 6 turns.