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Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

It pretty much does not. what if you need those characters for something else. Anything can have a buff from a character, saying that dynamic or rule doesn't matter because you can buff it with a character, is just asinine. Where are people getting these never ending supply of free characters...


Yet for some reason I never see plasma being fired without at least reroll 1 buff for them...

You can keep saying "no it does not" but Real World shows if weapon has nasty effect for user if they roll 1 you can bet your house it's being accompanied by reroll. Especially as GW doesn't even make it rare or expensive to have one.


Mate just give up, you're talking nonsense.


When was the last time you played a game and someone overcharged plasma consistently without a way to reroll 1s?

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan





Denver, Colorado

A ramshackle rule that's not boring AND useless.

"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment." Words to live by. 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
A ramshackle rule that's not boring AND useless.


Boring might be okay. If it was just a 5+ FNP on your vehicles, that'd be acceptable, would it not be?

But definitely agreed that it should be both effective AND interesting.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator






 JNAProductions wrote:
 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

It pretty much does not. what if you need those characters for something else. Anything can have a buff from a character, saying that dynamic or rule doesn't matter because you can buff it with a character, is just asinine. Where are people getting these never ending supply of free characters...


Yet for some reason I never see plasma being fired without at least reroll 1 buff for them...

You can keep saying "no it does not" but Real World shows if weapon has nasty effect for user if they roll 1 you can bet your house it's being accompanied by reroll. Especially as GW doesn't even make it rare or expensive to have one.


Mate just give up, you're talking nonsense.


When was the last time you played a game and someone overcharged plasma consistently without a way to reroll 1s?


When either me or that person is using a character to buff another squad. I'd rather buff my TWC or Wulfen sometimes than a squad of Plamsa guns. Not everyone builds their lists around a squad of plamsa, I mean seriously...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/08/10 15:51:27


 
   
Made in us
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade





cedar rapids, iowa

I miss this and still retcon it into my games when I can:

http://www.oocities.org/shinjukumouichido/doomsdaydevice.pdf

 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





St. Louis, MO

Old warscythes. They used to be one of if not the most terrifying melee weapons in the game. These days they are a decent weapon on a mediocre platform.

11,100 pts, 7,000 pts
++ Heed my words for I am the Herald and we are the footsteps of doom. Interlopers, do we name you. Defilers of our
sacred earth. We have awoken to your primative species and will not tolerate your presence. Ours is the way of logic,
of cold hard reason: your irrationality, your human disease has no place in the necrontyr. Flesh is weak.
Surrender to the machine incarnate. Surrender and die.
++

Tuagh wrote: If you won't use a wrench, it isn't the bolt's fault that your hammer is useless.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I miss the 6th edition inquisition codex. It was the one time i felt GW got it right and 8th has not been kind to that particular subfaction so far.
   
Made in us
Horrific Howling Banshee






There was this apoc blast psychic power for eldar in 7th........ god that was fun. made it feel like I was running the best Psychers in the universe or something.....

 Badablack wrote:
40k starts with the question, “Who is worse, Satan or the Nazis?” And goes from there. It’s a big colorful ball pit full of horrible people screaming and shooting each other.
PenitentJake wrote:
It doesn't matter if you're not dominating the game; if you have 3-4 x as many models and options than the rest of us and you're still getting new kits, we're still gonna rip on the faction. If I had 100 + Drukhari kits all in plastic to choose from, or 100 + Sisters kits, I think I'd be more likely to be receptive to Space Marine player's complaints about anything.
chromedog wrote:From the Fuggly DEldar of the time, before they let Jes goodwin have his good and proper way with the entire faction design.
HoundsofDemos wrote:
The game doesn't need super space marines, it needs more variety.
I don't want the best army, just one that isn't an exercise in picking up my models by turn 3.

 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Tygre wrote:
The multimelta firing as a heavy flamer was only for dreadnoughts. It would be great if dreadnoughts could do this. At least give the multimelta a small blast/d3 (it used to be a 2" template). Also give dreadnoughts there other bonuses, like salvo firing missile launchers (D3 shots perhaps).


In 2nd edition, dreadnoughts also got to re-roll a single sustained fire die per shot - handy for the assault cannon rolling 3 dice - and the missile launcher did get multiple shots, as it was a huge pod rather than the single tube of the man-portable version.

I miss genestealer cult limos (why ride in a beat-up pickup when you can have a low-ridin', chromed bling-mobile?) and 300-year-old shrivelled squat Living Ancestors (who were waist-high t a Space Marine, if that) being hellish close combat masters by dint of being a 4th-level psyker.. I miss the Daemonic Attack psychic power card, Tyranid Barbed Stranglers and the "...Jones is acting strangely" event. I miss the infamous space "merchant" Abdul Goldberg.

I don't however, miss the 1st edition rules for orks. By the end, I don't think the army was playable is you used all the rules. You had charts upon charts upon charts to generate kustom weapons, bionics (hey, have an Ork with two additional arms and an extra head! hand for firing two different heavy weapons at once, as long as the heads don't start arguing). You had special scatter rules (all non-standard) for firing "hop-splat" field guns and the twin autocannons on warbikes, you had four pages of charts for firing the shokk attack gun, charts to roll on to see which charts to roll on to see what the Madboyz did this turn, and then there were the rules for equipment malfunctions and mekboyz - the opponent gets a hand of breakdown cards, the mekboyz get repair cards to try to counter the effects of the breakdowns.

In 2nd edition, I don't mind the rules for vehicles, but they made bike and jetbike squads unplayable. :(
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Oh lord, the RT era combi-weapon rules were...hilarious, and I agree outside of a small RPG-esque game, good god no.

I loved the 2nd edition combi-weapons though which used the Artillery dice (2, 4, 6, 8, 10, Misfire). You rolled each time you fired and the result was your strength and half the result was your AP...and a Misfire had a silly chart of you either blowing up, or the shot becoming super-sayan, etc.

It was a great mechanic and one we'll surely miss with the lack of the artillery die. Shame as it was perfectly Orky.
   
Made in gb
Incorporating Wet-Blending




U.k

All of second edition. All of it.
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





While I'm a huge fan of 2nd, 8th edition is the only other edition to really grab me. I would like to see a bit more of the detail from 2nd transfer in, but I know we're past those days. 2nd had plenty of faults, but was a vastly more interesting game than 3rd-7th. 8th is closer than before.

I would love to see crew used in vehicles. Not in the micro-managing fashion of 2nd edition, but would love to see kits for crewmen which can survive and leave vehicles after they're blown up. I always had fond memories of the four or five Imperial Guardsman sheltering behind their blown up Leman Russ, firing their crappy laspistols at anybody who got too close.
   
Made in gb
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch





UK

1st edition Cyclone Missile Launcher Catastrophic Launch rules

"If a marine equipped with a Cyclone is hit by enemy fire there is a chance his entire stock of missiles will be fired in a single salvo. Roll 2D6, if the score is 11 or 12 the Cyclone immediately activates - roll on the Catastrophic Launch Table.

And on a roll of a 6...

"The marine's gyroscopic stabilisers which counterbalance the Cyclone system malfunction and he is spun round and round whilst firing missiles in random directions. The remaining missiles fire off one at a time. For each missile in turn determine a random direction (D12). The missile will hit the first target within 1" of a direct line drawn in the relevant direction. As each missile is fired the marine is jarred into a new position to fire the next."

Happy memories...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/10 21:17:31


[1,800] Chaos Knights | [1,250] Thousand Sons | [1,000] Grey Knights | 40K editions: RT, 8, 9, 10 | https://www.flickr.com/photos/dreadblade/  
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





How about the Shokk Attack Gun original rules...so fantastic. And actual Distortion Cannon rules. This is where I think GW fell a bit short when it comes to 8th edition. The rules are streamlined enough to provide quite a few bizarre things to occur, and they didn't take advantage of that.

I was really sad to see the Distortion Cannon be relegated to simple short range artillery, etc.
   
Made in gb
Incorporating Wet-Blending




U.k

 Elbows wrote:
While I'm a huge fan of 2nd, 8th edition is the only other edition to really grab me. I would like to see a bit more of the detail from 2nd transfer in, but I know we're past those days. 2nd had plenty of faults, but was a vastly more interesting game than 3rd-7th. 8th is closer than before.

I would love to see crew used in vehicles. Not in the micro-managing fashion of 2nd edition, but would love to see kits for crewmen which can survive and leave vehicles after they're blown up. I always had fond memories of the four or five Imperial Guardsman sheltering behind their blown up Leman Russ, firing their crappy laspistols at anybody who got too close.


I like that. I used to love it when a bunch of desperate tankers tried to survive. I live 2nd but do think 8th is much more “playable”. I think things like crews escaping could be stratagems or more in depth and fun optional rules.
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





I agree. I'd enjoy modeling up crewmen for my two armies (just have 6-8 on hand for each army, etc.). The old reference materials and datafaxes identify how many there are and what they're armed with etc.

Now a Baneblade...lol...that's a whole squad of guys!
   
Made in au
Furious Raptor




Sydney, Australia

 Elbows wrote:
How about the Shokk Attack Gun original rules...so fantastic.


Nothing says "cinematic death" quite like having a panicked snotling launched inside your terminator armour with you!
   
Made in gb
Incorporating Wet-Blending




U.k

1st ed shock attack gun rules made it so you couldn’t not bring one. My opponents always brought terminators or dreads because they wanted to see what happened too. And mad boyz. Fun but potentially devastating. Just like the fluff said. That’s why ORKS had them because every now and again they would destroy stuff!
   
Made in no
Regular Dakkanaut






 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
I miss the old "trusty" vortex grenade. They were so much fun. What things do you all miss and wish could bring back?


Armour facings on vehicles - they cut out a huge part out of the tactical layer from the game, and I will nevarr forget.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/11 20:52:41


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





2nd ed
I loved being able to play off 2 cards of rules. Screw the rulebook (unless an absolutely necessary ruling was needed) we just put together our armies (by the rules) then only needed those 2 quick-reference rule cards for the rest of the game.


Speaking of which... FOC!

We're gonna need another Timmy!

6400 pts+ 8th
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Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






^2nd didn't have FOC, everything was percentages. At least 25%troops, not over 50% vehicles or characters, and up to 25% allies iirc.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran




Australia

Terrain rules, old Necron Doomscythe "Death Laser" rule, and the similar one that Imotekh had.

Now they were fun.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 Insectum7 wrote:
^2nd didn't have FOC, everything was percentages. At least 25%troops, not over 50% vehicles or characters, and up to 25% allies iirc.


Yeah, that's what I was talking about. Couldn't remember what it was called though.

We're gonna need another Timmy!

6400 pts+ 8th
My Gallery
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Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






The problem with the 1st edition Shokk Attack Guj rules is that they're fine if that's the only odd thing you've got. The problem is that the Orks had that ... and equally involved rules for Kustom weapons and bioniks and madboyz and mekboyz and weirdboyz and warbikes and field artillery ... a mess.

Sometimes I miss 2nd edition. But then, I also enjoy the sort of game you can play now in 8th edition. The streamlining of 3rd edition was a response to the larger and larger games that people were playing, and 2nd edition was creaking under the strain. For all that people complain about super-heavies in 40k now, my 2nd edition Space Wolves had 3 Land Raiders, a Thunderhawk gunship and an allied Valhallan Baneblade (thank you, Citadel Journal!). I only used all that lot once, and the game dragged on for hours and hours. Even in normal games, I never bothered using Blind grenades because I didn't have 10 each of four different sizes of template and couldn't be bothered rolling for them all each turn.

Look at the battle report they introduced that game with; a Space Marine captain, a Tactical squad, a Devastator squad, a Terminator squad and a Rhino. Against an Ork army in which the largest squad size was 10 Orks and several squads only had 5. In terms of modern 40k, 2nd edition works well with nothing more than a single Patrol detachment per side.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Yeah, lots of nostalgia for 2nd but in reality it was a clunky game even by the standards of most other games back then. Simply moving a full squad of Assault Marines would take ages and resolving their CC attacks was an absolute nightmare.

I liked the flavour of a lot of the rules in 2nd but it was a pretty unbalanced mess to actually play. Smoke grenades, rad grenades, cool psychic powers and such are great fun but not when you then have to resolve cloud effects for every single smoke, plasma and other gas cloud on the board.
   
Made in au
Furious Raptor




Sydney, Australia

2nd ed was a really characterful rules set, but yeah, super clunky. I imagine it would be like trying to use the rules for Kill Team or Necromunda for a 1000pt battle. Way too many special rules to deal with that many models. I like the trend towards fast paced gaming, the few games I've had of 8th have been quite enjoyable because there's more emphasis to just chuck dice down rather than resolving each and every bloody moving template. I swear 2nd needed a "template movement phase" for all the different things that could happen, from vortex to hallucinogen and blind grenades to the rest of the nonsense!
   
Made in gb
Incorporating Wet-Blending




U.k

2nd edition was clunky but worked because you set aside the time and prepared to have a laugh. 3rd it all became for too serious. The cost of units meant 2nd didn’t have to take ages. Marines would hardly bring any models and hordes were mostly grots. Now 40k is more like a small game of epic. 3rd really butchered the game and ruined ORKS for me. We are still recovering now. That said I still enjoy 8th. It’s the best all round to play. Doesn’t take all day and if played for fun works really well.
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight





Fredericksburg, VA

2nd Ed was more like a large tabletop RPG than a proper wargaming experience. Pretty good for small model counts, but as players got larger armies, the time investment in a single game just went way too high (entire weekends in some cases for me and my friends). Worked pretty well for original Necromunda though I thought - not played the new one though, so can't compare.

Still miles less complex than Confrontation, that was a nightmare, and utterly deadly.
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





Slipspace wrote:
Yeah, lots of nostalgia for 2nd but in reality it was a clunky game even by the standards of most other games back then. Simply moving a full squad of Assault Marines would take ages and resolving their CC attacks was an absolute nightmare.

I liked the flavour of a lot of the rules in 2nd but it was a pretty unbalanced mess to actually play. Smoke grenades, rad grenades, cool psychic powers and such are great fun but not when you then have to resolve cloud effects for every single smoke, plasma and other gas cloud on the board.


When you know what you are doing it takes even less time than to roll buckets of dice with endless rerolls like you do in 8th. Just don´t use persistent effects and you are good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Kcalehc wrote:
2nd Ed was more like a large tabletop RPG than a proper wargaming experience. Pretty good for small model counts, but as players got larger armies, the time investment in a single game just went way too high (entire weekends in some cases for me and my friends). Worked pretty well for original Necromunda though I thought - not played the new one though, so can't compare.

Still miles less complex than Confrontation, that was a nightmare, and utterly deadly.


Do you know what a rpg is? I have never witnessed a dungeon master in 2nd or the procedure to roll up a character with stats like STR, DEX, CON, INT, WIS & CHA prior a game.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/15 16:30:17


 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

 Strg Alt wrote:
Do you know what a rpg is? I have never witnessed a dungeon master in 2nd or the procedure to roll up a character with stats like STR, DEX, CON, INT, WIS & CHA prior a game.


Do you? There are way more RPGs than just D&D.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
 
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