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Who else is guessing that, based on the last codex releases, that Space Wolves will outdo the other Marine codices besides Deathwatch?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Who else is guessing that, based on the last codex releases, that Space Wolves will outdo the other Marine codices besides Deathwatch?

They might. They will have a hard time replacing Blood Angels due to the specified nature of what the Blood Angels bring to the table. Codex marines have raven guard infiltration and guiliman. As a whole though yeah I see the wolves being better outside of specific gimmicks.

One interesting point in the fluff about Vigilus is is that the Orks couldn't get through some psychic hand wavery shields so took to having wacky probably Mad Max style races amongst each other - smell like a spin-off reboot of a game?

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
I could see the space wolves taking on a more straight forward and less gimmicky approach to melee as opposed to Blood Angels. I don't see them having a smash captain or having the deep striking death company bombs, but a more slow, but consistent approach. Perhaps some stratagem to let a unit disembark after a vehicle moves (Iron Wolves style), move after outflank, or counter charge a charging unit. I like to see space wolves being more of an all around short range shooty army with some counter punch backed by dedicated melee units (thunderbang cavalry and wulfen).

I don't see how space wolves could be less gimmicky. The army is a gimmick.

I lol'd at that because you are absolutely right. I was thinking so purely about gameplay I forgot that the army is literally a gimmick.

How?

pm713 wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
I could see the space wolves taking on a more straight forward and less gimmicky approach to melee as opposed to Blood Angels. I don't see them having a smash captain or having the deep striking death company bombs, but a more slow, but consistent approach. Perhaps some stratagem to let a unit disembark after a vehicle moves (Iron Wolves style), move after outflank, or counter charge a charging unit. I like to see space wolves being more of an all around short range shooty army with some counter punch backed by dedicated melee units (thunderbang cavalry and wulfen).

I don't see how space wolves could be less gimmicky. The army is a gimmick.

I lol'd at that because you are absolutely right. I was thinking so purely about gameplay I forgot that the army is literally a gimmick.

How?

Wolf wolf bark bark Spaces Wolves wielding wolf claws, wearing wolf pelts, riding space wolves which were Space Wolves fighting for the Wolftime wiith their wolf lords.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
They are releasing these cheeseballs on my birthday. UGH.

Classic! If you were planning on gaming that day - I would instead schedule a vacation - this release is sure to bring out the wolf pack!

Actually, I'm considering a hiatus until CA. If they drop the ball on CA, hiatus goes till 9th ed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Who else is guessing that, based on the last codex releases, that Space Wolves will outdo the other Marine codices besides Deathwatch?

What are you talking about? They'll make the DW look like grots.

I am really really glad no Russ.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Who else is guessing that, based on the last codex releases, that Space Wolves will outdo the other Marine codices besides Deathwatch?

What are you talking about? They'll make the DW look like grots.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Who else is guessing that, based on the last codex releases, that Space Wolves will outdo the other Marine codices besides Deathwatch?

That's not a terribly high bar...

None of these kits are relevant to me, but I'm happy for the people that want them


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crimson wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Who else is guessing that, based on the last codex releases, that Space Wolves will outdo the other Marine codices besides Deathwatch?

That's not a terribly high bar...

Yes, it's not quite Olympic high jumping is it

 Primark G wrote:
I am really really glad no Russ.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Who else is guessing that, based on the last codex releases, that Space Wolves will outdo the other Marine codices besides Deathwatch?

What are you talking about? They'll make the DW look like grots.

Another great quote for my siggy.

If you want my bet, I'd say we'll probably be worse than Blood Angels, but better than vanilla space marines and Dark Angels.

Our unique units, barring some major revisions [which, given the time between releases, isn't off the table, but given precedent, isn't likely], are basically outright overshadowed by other Imperial options, so unless our stratagem-based gimmicks are really good, we probably will be solidly lower-middle tier.

In addition, it's likely that any major revision to our non-unique units would logically carry over to other Space Marine units, which doesn't really help our case.


Right now, Thunderwolf Lords and Thunderwolf Cavalry are basically our only good units. Wolf Guard and Wolf Lords are vaguely passable. Unfortunately, the former set are strictly inferior versions of the Dawneagle Jetbike units. Our Wolf Guard are also distinctly inferior to Death Company and Sanguinary Guard.

Other notable weakness are the fact that we don't have Scouts. Scouts are amazing infantry because of their deployment, and they're also good and cheap. Our Wolf Scouts lose out on the deployment option and aren't troops, which hurts a lot.


However, on an optimistic note, since we know we have a good outflanking strategem, units with a high special weapon density, like Hellblasters, will be strong in our hands, and if we get a stratagem that boosts our charge ability, which isn't entirely unlikely but also not guaranteed, we might present a fairly potent assault/short range shooting force. Unfortunately, I don't think we're likely to get anything like On Wings of Fire, which means we'll probably still be one step worse than the Blood Angels.

I don't see Space Wolves getting a Smashwolf to run in the same way the BA do, but they should be a solid mid-tier army all things considered.

That said they should be among the better melee options for Marines, though you'll have to wolf your wolf into the wolfing lines of the enemy wolves to wolf them down and declare yourself the alpha wolf to make it work, so there is that.

The issue I see is that our troop options either need transports to function, or are intercessors.

jcd386 wrote:
The issue I see is that our troop options either need transports to function, or are intercessors.

That speaks to a bigger problem, which is all our troops are aggressive, but not devastatingly so. Intercessors might actually be the best of our troop options because of their relative resilience, but I haven't thought about it too extensively.

I for one will be happy if codex space wolves is a good solid codex with great internal balance and lots of options, if there are better soup options better then some of our best stuff so be it, so long as space wovles are rock solid on their own.

TBH when an army I have has an important component of soup if concerns me, as often thats all that holds an army up, but it's destined for a nerf. Custodes are a good example, I'm terrified jet bikes will be nerfed and leave the army a steaming pile.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
If you want my bet, I'd say we'll probably be worse than Blood Angels, but better than vanilla space marines and Dark Angels.

Our unique units, barring some major revisions [which, given the time between releases, isn't off the table, but given precedent, isn't likely], are basically outright overshadowed by other Imperial options, so unless our stratagem-based gimmicks are really good, we probably will be solidly lower-middle tier.

In addition, it's likely that any major revision to our non-unique units would logically carry over to other Space Marine units, which doesn't really help our case.


Right now, Thunderwolf Lords and Thunderwolf Cavalry are basically our only good units. Wolf Guard and Wolf Lords are vaguely passable. Unfortunately, the former set are strictly inferior versions of the Dawneagle Jetbike units. Our Wolf Guard are also distinctly inferior to Death Company and Sanguinary Guard.

Other notable weakness are the fact that we don't have Scouts. Scouts are amazing infantry because of their deployment, and they're also good and cheap. Our Wolf Scouts lose out on the deployment option and aren't troops, which hurts a lot.


However, on an optimistic note, since we know we have a good outflanking strategem, units with a high special weapon density, like Hellblasters, will be strong in our hands, and if we get a stratagem that boosts our charge ability, which isn't entirely unlikely but also not guaranteed, we might present a fairly potent assault/short range shooting force. Unfortunately, I don't think we're likely to get anything like On Wings of Fire, which means we'll probably still be one step worse than the Blood Angels.

SW are almost always the best power armor. They will be again, I'm sure.

Scouts are gak, they are just the cheapest gak the marines can poop out onto the field.