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What do you mean? Just because its old doesn’t mean it’s irrelevant. Marines, the emperor, the heresy were all 1st edition fluff. Want to ignore them?

Andykp wrote:
What do you mean? Just because its old doesn’t mean it’s irrelevant. Marines, the emperor, the heresy were all 1st edition fluff. Want to ignore them?

No, because they are in current fluff. Stuff such as Inquisitor Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau is not.

He was great by the way and no more silly than Margaret thatcher the goff warboss from 1st edition who is still around today going strong. It might not cut it for you but for me old fluff wins more often than not.

Andykp wrote:
He was great by the way and no more silly than Margaret thatcher the goff warboss from 1st edition who is still around today going strong. It might not cut it for you but for me old fluff wins more often than not.

1st edition Rogue Trader is probably the best edition.

To play no. Fluff etc. Yep.

Did the emperor want to be worshipped as a god, or exist as a god-like entity within the warp? Probably not. Every time someone tried to worship him he chastised them.

But he definitely wanted to exert absolute control over humanity and basically exterminate all non-human sapient life in the galaxy. He was also functionally immortal. To me at least, he showed that he wanted to be a god in the metaphorical sense, but not the literal sense.

w1zard wrote:
Did the emperor want to be worshipped as a god, or exist as a god-like entity within the warp? Probably not. Every time someone tried to worship him he chastised them.

But he definitely wanted to exert absolute control over humanity and basically exterminate all non-human sapient life in the galaxy. He was also functionally immortal. To me at least, he showed that he wanted to be a god in the metaphorical sense, but not the literal sense.

The Laer say he did not want to wipe out all alien life. The Council of Terra thought about making the Laer a protectorate instead of conquering them, and Fulgrim rejected because they held their beliefs and technology to be comparable to that of humanity, not because they were aliens.


Erebus said the Emperor wanted to be a god in False Gods.




Master of Mankind and Dark Imperium shows he wants to save humanity.

Onething123456 wrote:

The Laer say he did not want to wipe out all alien life. The Council of Terra thought about making the Laer a protectorate instead of conquering them, and Fulgrim rejected because they held their beliefs and technology to be comparable to that of humanity, not because they were aliens.


Erebus said the Emperor wanted to be a god in False Gods.




Master of Mankind and Dark Imperium shows he wants to save humanity.

The great crusade's purpose was to wipe out all non-human life in the galaxy. Even xeno races who were friendly/neutral to humanity were targeted, just look at the diasporex.

The emperor planned to save humanity and "elevate" them. To do that he needed unquestioned control of humanity as a whole. That sounds pretty "god-like" to me, although not in the literal sense.

Dude how many treads are you going to start about that topic? Is there something you can't wrap your head around or are you just a troll?

If you're (surprisingly) serious, you're question is not a big deal. Is no. Otherwise he most probably wouldn't have had Lorgar spanked for erecting statues. For instance. And it's basically underlying in every statement about the eclesiarchy that the Emprah would facepalm himself back onto his throne if he resurrected just to see that.

 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:
Dude how many treads are you going to start about that topic? Is there something you can't wrap your head around or are you just a troll?

If you're (surprisingly) serious, you're question is not a big deal. Is no. Otherwise he most probably wouldn't have had Lorgar spanked for erecting statues. For instance. And it's basically underlying in every statement about the eclesiarchy that the Emprah would facepalm himself back onto his throne if he resurrected just to see that.

Sorry about that. I stopped already. I was watching a documentary before getting on here.

 Grimtuff wrote:

Fabius Bile: Clonelord wrote:...‘But for how much longer will that be the case? What will become of you then, my little ones? What will become of all that I have built, when I am gone?’

He wondered whether the Corpse-Emperor, on his Throne, had had similar thoughts, in those hours left to him before he had given the order to damn himself to an eternal half-life. ‘Did you wonder, in those final moments, whether your path was the correct one?’ he said aloud. ‘Did you spare any thought for what might come of hovering over your creations for an eternity, like some grim shadow that they will never escape?”

Whether he wanted to be a god or not is irrelevant. The path he was forced to take made him one.

Its blatantly obvious Erebus was lying. Only an idiot or loon would believe him. Not only did Horus not believe Erebus, but Magnus was there telling him not to listen to Erebus.

regarding the emperor being past religious figures, thasts actually current, the short story "the last church" has him say he's created numerous religions. The only confirmed historical figure we know the Emperor was was St. George. I'm gonna BTW right now propose a cheeky theory that he was also St. Andrew and St. Patrick, and thus the Union Jack on the back of every 40k product we buy is really a subtle referance to the emperor!

BrianDavion wrote:
regarding the emperor being past religious figures, thasts actually current, the short story "the last church" has him say he's created numerous religions. The only confirmed historical figure we know the Emperor was was St. George. I'm gonna BTW right now propose a cheeky theory that he was also St. Andrew and St. Patrick, and thus the Union Jack on the back of every 40k product we buy is really a subtle referance to the emperor!

The Last Church also showed the fresco of "a battle between a golden knight and a silver dragon."

Onething123456 wrote:
The notion about the Emperor wanting to be a god and not caring about humanity comes from the mouth of Erebus in False Gods. Erebus said that while disguised as Sejanus to manipulate Horus into joining Chaos. Chaos, let alone Erebus, is not known for honesty when manipulating pawns. And whats more, Magnus was there telling Horus not to listen to Erebus, and Horus said he knew it was not Sejanus, and even mused that Erebus likely cooked it all up.



So no, the Emperor does not want to be a god.

How do you know. That isn't proof in any way shape or form that he didn't want to become a god. The warp told Erebus all of that, he isn't a psyker and has no divination abilities. We do know that chaos tells lies with the truth. The Emperor went about doing everything to make himself a god, whether he did that knowingly is another story. In terms of power he is practically a god. He destroyed churches and banned religion, I've always thought he did that to pave his way towards his apotheosis, but that's just my opinion. Acting like you aren't a god is the only credible way you could become a god ( Lectitio Divinitatus ), if he would have told everyone to worship him, they'd tell him to go take a hike. Remember that the first saint Euphrati Keeler spread the faith and she was powered by the Emperor as a saint so there is some possibility that he did.

“Only the true Messiah denies His divinity”

BrianDavion wrote:
regarding the emperor being past religious figures, thasts actually current, the short story "the last church" has him say he's created numerous religions. The only confirmed historical figure we know the Emperor was was St. George.

Apparently, one inside joke at GW, way back when, was that one of his guises before he revealed himself as the Emperor was ... Cliff Richard.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Onething123456 wrote:
The notion about the Emperor wanting to be a god and not caring about humanity comes from the mouth of Erebus in False Gods. Erebus said that while disguised as Sejanus to manipulate Horus into joining Chaos. Chaos, let alone Erebus, is not known for honesty when manipulating pawns. And whats more, Magnus was there telling Horus not to listen to Erebus, and Horus said he knew it was not Sejanus, and even mused that Erebus likely cooked it all up.



So no, the Emperor does not want to be a god.

How do you know. That isn't proof in any way shape or form that he didn't want to become a god. The warp told Erebus all of that, he isn't a psyker and has no divination abilities. We do know that chaos tells lies with the truth. The Emperor went about doing everything to make himself a god, whether he did that knowingly is another story. In terms of power he is practically a god. He destroyed churches and banned religion, I've always thought he did that to pave his way towards his apotheosis, but that's just my opinion. Acting like you aren't a god is the only credible way you could become a god ( Lectitio Divinitatus ), if he would have told everyone to worship him, they'd tell him to go take a hike. Remember that the first saint Euphrati Keeler spread the faith and she was powered by the Emperor as a saint so there is some possibility that he did.

Chaos is not known for honesty when manipulating pawns. And how do we know? Because, Sherlock, Horus did not believe Erebus, and Magnus was there telling Horus not to listen to Erebus.



Are you a loon or something? Who in their right minds would believe Erebus?


There is not only no credible proof the Emperor wants to be a god, but we KNOW he does not because of Erebus.

The Emperor and Malacador have an ongoing debate. The Emperor believes that, given time, he would be able to turn the Imperium over to humanity once they had evolved sufficiently and fade into the background. Malcador argued that the need for strong leadership was too ingrained in human nature to ever be obviated and that the Big E basically had a job for life.

That entire conversation would be pointless if the Emperor actually wanted to be a god.

 Karhedron wrote:
The Emperor and Malacador have an ongoing debate. The Emperor believes that, given time, he would be able to turn the Imperium over to humanity once they had evolved sufficiently and fade into the background. Malcador argued that the need for strong leadership was too ingrained in human nature to ever be obviated and that the Big E basically had a job for life.

That entire conversation would be pointless if the Emperor actually wanted to be a god.

And we know he does not want to be one, since it came from the mouth of Erebus.

 iGuy91 wrote:
I mean, lets be honest. You could walk into a holocaust museum dressed as Hitler with Erebus beside you, and people would beat the crap out of him first.

I wouldn't trust a word out of his mouth. lol

No kidding.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Onething123456 wrote:
The notion about the Emperor wanting to be a god and not caring about humanity comes from the mouth of Erebus in False Gods. Erebus said that while disguised as Sejanus to manipulate Horus into joining Chaos. Chaos, let alone Erebus, is not known for honesty when manipulating pawns. And whats more, Magnus was there telling Horus not to listen to Erebus, and Horus said he knew it was not Sejanus, and even mused that Erebus likely cooked it all up.



So no, the Emperor does not want to be a god.

How do you know. That isn't proof in any way shape or form that he didn't want to become a god. The warp told Erebus all of that, he isn't a psyker and has no divination abilities. We do know that chaos tells lies with the truth. The Emperor went about doing everything to make himself a god, whether he did that knowingly is another story. In terms of power he is practically a god. He destroyed churches and banned religion, I've always thought he did that to pave his way towards his apotheosis, but that's just my opinion. Acting like you aren't a god is the only credible way you could become a god ( Lectitio Divinitatus ), if he would have told everyone to worship him, they'd tell him to go take a hike. Remember that the first saint Euphrati Keeler spread the faith and she was powered by the Emperor as a saint so there is some possibility that he did.

DO you have proof for any of this? Chaos lies ad contradicts itself in its lies.


Why do you believe? Only an idiot or loon would believe Erebus was telling the truth. Neither Horus nor Magnus believed him.


I know because its from the mouth of Erebus of all people, who happens to be a Chaos Marine.

Just because somebody believes they are lying about something doesn't make it untrue

But seriously yeah this pulp fiction really doesn't have the talent for any real nuance.

Onething123456 wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
I mean, lets be honest. You could walk into a holocaust museum dressed as Hitler with Erebus beside you, and people would beat the crap out of him first.

I wouldn't trust a word out of his mouth. lol

No kidding.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Onething123456 wrote:
The notion about the Emperor wanting to be a god and not caring about humanity comes from the mouth of Erebus in False Gods. Erebus said that while disguised as Sejanus to manipulate Horus into joining Chaos. Chaos, let alone Erebus, is not known for honesty when manipulating pawns. And whats more, Magnus was there telling Horus not to listen to Erebus, and Horus said he knew it was not Sejanus, and even mused that Erebus likely cooked it all up.



So no, the Emperor does not want to be a god.

How do you know. That isn't proof in any way shape or form that he didn't want to become a god. The warp told Erebus all of that, he isn't a psyker and has no divination abilities. We do know that chaos tells lies with the truth. The Emperor went about doing everything to make himself a god, whether he did that knowingly is another story. In terms of power he is practically a god. He destroyed churches and banned religion, I've always thought he did that to pave his way towards his apotheosis, but that's just my opinion. Acting like you aren't a god is the only credible way you could become a god ( Lectitio Divinitatus ), if he would have told everyone to worship him, they'd tell him to go take a hike. Remember that the first saint Euphrati Keeler spread the faith and she was powered by the Emperor as a saint so there is some possibility that he did.

DO you have proof for any of this? Chaos lies ad contradicts itself in its lies.


Why do you believe? Only an idiot or loon would believe Erebus was telling the truth. Neither Horus nor Magnus believed him.


I know because its from the mouth of Erebus of all people, who happens to be a Chaos Marine.

You need to be more specific. Proof that I think he is a god. Not really as I stated its just my opinion, though whether a saint is autonomous and just has the right conditions for the emperor to use or if manipulated would shed light on whether of not there is proof.

Isn't the bigger question is if he wants to be a god NOW?

I’d argue he is a god already during the pre Heresy times , just one with no need to be worshipped. The intent mentioned in “Last Church” can be read as competing religions being removed from society because they divide mankind and have failed to do what they were supposed to.

It seems hard to believe that the Emperor expects belief to simply disappear. Maybe he realised that a new Imperial Cult would only be born from true belief, existing and growing as fast as it could be stamped out, rather than enforced belief.

Essentially it comes down to the essence of “what is a god”. We know Primarchs are very hard to kill but not impossible. Whereas the Emperor , and Horus in his final form, can only be truly killed or wounded by a specific weapon type created by the Chaos gods or the Emperor. Yeah, Vulcan can come back, but he still dies like any other Primarch.

Late reply, but yeah. The fact that "The Emperor wants to sacrifice humanity to be a God" comes from Erebus does not make it trustworthy. Its not possible in the least he was telling the truth.

Onething123456 wrote:
Late reply, but yeah. The fact that "The Emperor wants to sacrifice humanity to be a God" comes from Erebus does not make it trustworthy. Its not possible in the least he was telling the truth.

"If an elderly but distinguished scientist says that something is possible, he is almost certainly right; but if he says that it is impossible, he is very probably wrong."
-Arthur C Clark

w1zard wrote:
Did the emperor want to be worshipped as a god, or exist as a god-like entity within the warp? Probably not. Every time someone tried to worship him he chastised them.

What about the Sisterhood? They venerate him more than anybody else in the Imperium and he does the opposite of chatising them. He rewards them. When Alicia and her Companions met with him during the Reign of Blood, they were worshipping him and thought Vandire was his reincarnation. He had the occasion to set the record strait and break their faith in him, but he did the exact opposite. They rebelled against Vandire and became twice more faithful toward him. It seems the Emperor likes being revered as a God when it suits him and chatise those who do when it's convenient. An interesting question is does a god need to believe he's one to be a god? Lorgar thought that the distinction between the Emperor and a god was pointless. His powers, vision and wisdom made a god that he wanted the worship or not. Of course, that was until Lorgar turned to other gods to answer his question.

epronovost wrote:

w1zard wrote:
Did the emperor want to be worshipped as a god, or exist as a god-like entity within the warp? Probably not. Every time someone tried to worship him he chastised them.

What about the Sisterhood? They venerate him more than anybody else in the Imperium and he does the opposite of chatising them. He rewards them. When Alicia and her Companions met with him during the Reign of Blood, they were worshipping him and thought Vandire was his reincarnation. He had the occasion to set the record strait and break their faith in him, but he did the exact opposite. They rebelled against Vandire and became twice more faithful toward him. It seems the Emperor likes being revered as a God when it suits him and chatise those who do when it's convenient. An interesting question is does a god need to believe he's one to be a god? Lorgar thought that the distinction between the Emperor and a god was pointless. His powers, vision and wisdom made a god that he wanted the worship or not. Of course, that was until Lorgar turned to other gods to answer his question.

I basically mean that Erebus in False Gods said the Emperor wanted to sacrifice humanity to be a God. Who in their right minds would believe Erebus?

epronovost wrote:

w1zard wrote:
Did the emperor want to be worshipped as a god, or exist as a god-like entity within the warp? Probably not. Every time someone tried to worship him he chastised them.

What about the Sisterhood? They venerate him more than anybody else in the Imperium and he does the opposite of chatising them. He rewards them. When Alicia and her Companions met with him during the Reign of Blood, they were worshipping him and thought Vandire was his reincarnation. He had the occasion to set the record strait and break their faith in him, but he did the exact opposite. They rebelled against Vandire and became twice more faithful toward him. It seems the Emperor likes being revered as a God when it suits him and chatise those who do when it's convenient. An interesting question is does a god need to believe he's one to be a god? Lorgar thought that the distinction between the Emperor and a god was pointless. His powers, vision and wisdom made a god that he wanted the worship or not. Of course, that was until Lorgar turned to other gods to answer his question.

we don't know for sure what happened when Alicia went into that room or if he even said anything to her. The sight of him alone might have persuaded her or the Custodes might have gas light her into thinking the Emperor was speaking to her. When Bobby G "talked" to dad, what he described was painful and off putting even for a primarch. A mortal getting that much psychic shouting would probably be dead.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
we don't know for sure what happened when Alicia went into that room or if he even said anything to her. The sight of him alone might have persuaded her or the Custodes might have gas light her into thinking the Emperor was speaking to her.

Well, obviously something happened there since they changed alliegeance while the arguments presented by the Custodes before failed. Yes, they actually to use reason to trump blind faith and loyalty and it failed. It also didn't impact their faith in the Emperor and some of them, including Alicia and her Companion, gained some superhuman powers from it (for example, Katherine was fast enough to defeat an Autarch in single combat amongst other feets of arms, Alica lived, unaging, for 600 years before getting killed, etc.). Celestine is just one other in a long line of "powered-up" Sister of Battle and Saint. To me. this seems to indicate that the Emepror either changed his mind about faith and godhood or he was liar all along.

When Bobby G "talked" to dad, what he described was painful and off putting even for a primarch. A mortal getting that much psychic shouting would probably be dead.

The Reign of Blood was 5000 years prior. The Emperor might have been in better shape at that point. When Guilliman met the Emperor, the Golden Throne was no-longer operating at full capacity. The Golden Throne breaking down is a reatively recent phenomenon. It also implies that the Emperor just as "one volume setting", which is probably not the case. It's also very possible that mortal cope better with the experience since they are less psychic than primarchs. What sounded like an excrutiating experience for Guilliman might have been a whisper in Alicia and cie. hears precisely because they aren't psykers.