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 Manchu wrote:
Yes, Hammerhal is pretty different from Silver Tower. With ST, you play out of a 'choose your own adventure' style book filled with numbered paragraphs. No one has to play as the 'game master' as the plot is run by this book and all the enemy models work via AI. Hammerhal by contrast tells a story, via one player taking charge of the enemies, with a beginning, middle, and end. I am not really sure which I prefer.

I think both went too far in either direction (GW? Finding the extreme rather than the middle ground? How unlike them! ).

I hate to harp on about it again, but Old Quest got this balance. It let the stories tell themselves through gameplay, without having a specific "Turn to Page X" style of moving the game forward, and it didn't require one player 'sit out' and be the bad guy all the time.

Very interested in seeing the minis. Silver Tower was fantastic for introducing brand new AoS stuff at the time.

So, maybe preorder is september 8?

GW usually post images on facebook one or two weeks before.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I also hope it isn't a theme-breaking coalition of a Guardsmen, a Marine, a Guardian and a Fire Warrior wading into battle together. That'd be dumb.

Not sure about the Fire Warrior (although a more radical Rogue Trader might have some xenos mates kicking around), but that sort of random mob seems appropriate for a Rogue Trader and crew.

I think the biggest selling point of this game will be the minis inside of it – which we should apparently be seeing previewed sometime over the Nova event.

This could be the rumoured opportunity for a revamped Abaddon model, and, if so would drive a lot of sales.

Beyond that, I’m not really that interested in the game, nor am I overly interested in the expected Rogue Trader minis that are apparently going against the Chaos Marines.

Between 40k, AoS, Titanticus, Shadespire, Speed Freaks, Necromunda, Kill Team, AoS Champions, Bloodbowl, the new LOTRs, this and all the other Quests, I just don’t have the time, money or effort to put into a new boxed game every other month (not sure how anyone else has it either). As such, I’ll likely be giving this a miss unless it offers me a reasonable reason to pick up the minis for 40k, and I’ll just stick to the main games for now.

I will admit I am not familiar with 40ks up to date current lore, so forgive me if this seems dense, but why Abaddon?

Why is the mention of a Blackstone Fortress practically synonymous with a revamp of Abaddon? I have seen a few mentions of him already in this thread, and I'm curious why.

If he was going to be revamped, surely he'd fall into a Rogal Dorn esque size and statured miniature, and be the flagship release for a new CSM codex, not as a dastardely end boss for a dungeon crawler.

Especially considering the protagonists (from what we know so far, which admittedly is very little) is a rogue trader; I cannot see it being very likely the GW would happily have their big bad villain being defeated by a rag tag group of space pirates. I could easily see the final boss being one of Abaddons underlings, but Abaddon himself? It just doesn't seem likely to me.

Reckon this is where that gunslinger hybrid is from, but whether he's one of the heroes or villains I'm less sure.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I also hope it isn't a theme-breaking coalition of a Guardsmen, a Marine, a Guardian and a Fire Warrior wading into battle together. That'd be dumb.

given a rogue trader is involved it does allow them to field a somewhat stranger team then would otherwise be seen without it seeming too odd. a Rogue trader with a Space Marine, Armsman (Guard) and Eldar working with him all at once would be a little odd but not impossiably so.

I don't think we need to tap into xenos for the heroes.
Rogue Trader, Space Marine, Tempestus Scion, some kind of Assassin, Battle Sister, Psyker

Kdash wrote:

Between 40k, AoS, Titanticus, Shadespire, Speed Freaks, Necromunda, Kill Team, AoS Champions, Bloodbowl, the new LOTRs, this and all the other Quests, I just don’t have the time, money or effort to put into a new boxed game every other month (not sure how anyone else has it either). As such, I’ll likely be giving this a miss unless it offers me a reasonable reason to pick up the minis for 40k, and I’ll just stick to the main games for now.

But that's the new sales model. A new game every other month so you don't have time to properly try any of them out and see how half-assed they all are before you're already moving to the next big release.

 ghosty wrote:
I will admit I am not familiar with 40ks up to date current lore, so forgive me if this seems dense, but why Abaddon?

Why is the mention of a Blackstone Fortress practically synonymous with a revamp of Abaddon? I have seen a few mentions of him already in this thread, and I'm curious why.

If he was going to be revamped, surely he'd fall into a Rogal Dorn esque size and statured miniature, and be the flagship release for a new CSM codex, not as a dastardely end boss for a dungeon crawler.

Especially considering the protagonists (from what we know so far, which admittedly is very little) is a rogue trader; I cannot see it being very likely the GW would happily have their big bad villain being defeated by a rag tag group of space pirates. I could easily see the final boss being one of Abaddons underlings, but Abaddon himself? It just doesn't seem likely to me.

To destroy Cadia, Abaddon crashed a Blackstone Fortress into it, and I believe he had others at his disposal/knew where to find some (needs checking).

Also, Abaddon has been “missing” for a while lore wise since the end of the Gathering Storm. Another Blackstone Fortress with new Chaos Space Marine models makes sense. BUT, it would also make the game highly 1 sided, unless the opposition had some other major character that’d have to be drawn up from nowhere.

I am interested. I would like a game to play with my friends with whom i play various boardgames and RPGs.

It's about time. I hope it's cooperative like Silver Tower, though. I have but didn't play Hammerhal because of the GM.

Would be great to have a comprehensive rule set come out of this one. I was pretty disappointed after having so much fun with Silver Tower that the next Warhammer Quest already changed the rules.

Will be interesting to see what models we get out of this, though.

 Hanskrampf wrote:
I don't think we need to tap into xenos for the heroes.
Rogue Trader, Space Marine, Tempestus Scion, some kind of Assassin, Battle Sister, Psyker

It's not a need.

It's a want.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Kdash wrote:

Between 40k, AoS, Titanticus, Shadespire, Speed Freaks, Necromunda, Kill Team, AoS Champions, Bloodbowl, the new LOTRs, this and all the other Quests, I just don’t have the time, money or effort to put into a new boxed game every other month (not sure how anyone else has it either). As such, I’ll likely be giving this a miss unless it offers me a reasonable reason to pick up the minis for 40k, and I’ll just stick to the main games for now.

But that's the new sales model. A new game every other month so you don't have time to properly try any of them out and see how half-assed they all are before you're already moving to the next big release.

That's your fault then. Stop buying things you won'[t have time to use.

 Grot 6 wrote:
I SMELL A HOLE IN MY WALLET WITH THE NEXT COUPLE OF MONTHS...

You should probably get that checked...

that makes zero sense.

I need to see the minis. I'm not big on the sisters concept, so hoping to see
something else I'd like to collect and paint.

They still haven't brought the new fantasy Quest(s) up to the same GM creativity level as the original, have they? No equivalent of the old Roleplay Book with campaigns, monster stats, and other tools for creating your own quests and dungeons, right?

As much fun as I'm sure they are for their limited campaigns, a WHQ just isn't 'done' for me until it has that RPG-lite GM campaign factor. Back in the day, I would have gone nuts for a 40K Quest, but today I don't think this will be what I want in a dungeon crawler either.

They’ve not, not to the same degree.

Definitely worth asking for it though. I mean, the drip of new rules in WD is certainly not unwelcome, but a proper campaign book, bestiary and expansion dungeon tiles is preferred.

After all, we can use pretty much all the characters in the range, why not the gribblies?

I expect that this game will probably include Imperial heroes - Rogue Trader Janus Draik and his crew. I'm sure we'll see additional hero cards available, like with the AoS-set WQ games.

By the way, "Janus Drake" was the Rogue Trader protagonist in William King's Farseer novel.

Tastyfish wrote:
Reckon this is where that gunslinger hybrid is from, but whether he's one of the heroes or villains I'm less sure.

Tooth and Claw & Blackstone Fortress are apparently being released relatively close to each other so accidentally displaying the miniatures together, causing the accidental exposure of the models originally, makes sense.

I hope that this isn't just another one-and-done style game with no built-in longevity. I also hope it isn't a theme-breaking coalition of a Guardsmen, a Marine, a Guardian and a Fire Warrior wading into battle together. That'd be dumb.

I'm hoping otherwise, I like the ability to use a ton of different models and character types in AoS for a dungeon crawler romp through hammerfel and silvertower. If you don't want to break the theme, don't have to, but let others run their weird xenos groups through the halls.

Though having it be Imperium based for the first more.. canon group would be a good idea for theme unity, and then release the the ideas for oddball things later.

They said in the Q and A that 40k Quest would be getting continued support. What exactly that means is another question. Silver tower got new heroes and enemies as recently as a couple of months ago, but has never got a proper expansion.

Chikout wrote:
They said in the Q and A that 40k Quest would be getting continued support. What exactly that means is another question. Silver tower got new heroes and enemies as recently as a couple of months ago, but has never got a proper expansion.

Hammerhal was the 'expansion'.

As were the boxed sets of Heroes.

And cards!

Still holding out for a full Bestiary, and I appreciate that’ll take time to produce and get right.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Boardgame might be fun, but the miniatures will be the real draw.

Rogue Trader codex when? It's inevitable now.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
I expect that this game will probably include Imperial heroes - Rogue Trader Janus Draik and his crew. I'm sure we'll see additional hero cards available, like with the AoS-set WQ games.

By the way, "Janus Drake" was the Rogue Trader protagonist in William King's Farseer novel.

Spoiler:

He journeyed to a Crone World with the Farseer Auric Stormcloud and his bodyguard, the Exarch Athenys

That's definitely interesting. Would love to see a new Eldar model in the mix.

Why are people harping about a Space Marine in the box? Unless confirmed, it seems unlikely. Take out the marine and sister, you then have an opportunity to have quite a rag tag of characters without breaking the fluff too much.

Seeing as it features a Rogue Trader I'd expect more of a non-standard cast of characters and archetypes, as opposed to a Guardsman, a Sister and a Marine.

Would be great to see them do a new plastic preacher / missionary.

 BrookM wrote:
Seeing as it features a Rogue Trader I'd expect more of a non-standard cast of characters and archetypes, as opposed to a Guardsman, a Sister and a Marine.

Would be great to see them do a new plastic preacher / missionary.

Astropath and Navigator, please.

I'm sure there'll be a soldier, but it won't just be a Cadian with a lasgun. Also, in a way, I'd like to see a Marine - one from a more obscure Chapter, who's been away for a long time, and has a more individualised look. Like how Cipher looks kinda like a Dark Angel, but then again, ... doesn't.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Kdash wrote:

Between 40k, AoS, Titanticus, Shadespire, Speed Freaks, Necromunda, Kill Team, AoS Champions, Bloodbowl, the new LOTRs, this and all the other Quests, I just don’t have the time, money or effort to put into a new boxed game every other month (not sure how anyone else has it either). As such, I’ll likely be giving this a miss unless it offers me a reasonable reason to pick up the minis for 40k, and I’ll just stick to the main games for now.

But that's the new sales model. A new game every other month so you don't have time to properly try any of them out and see how half-assed they all are before you're already moving to the next big release.

It is? How many half-assed games have they released in the last year? I see Shadespire, Necromunda, Titanicus, Kill Team, Blitz Bowl, AoS Champions, Renegade... of those, I can see an argument for Renegade, which despite having post-release support in WD is mostly a vessel to sell Knights. Other than that... not really. So I'd be curious what you're basing this on. I've seen you saying this Before without backing it up with examples. You might have had a point in 2016, but that's two years ago.

 Mymearan wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Kdash wrote:

Between 40k, AoS, Titanticus, Shadespire, Speed Freaks, Necromunda, Kill Team, AoS Champions, Bloodbowl, the new LOTRs, this and all the other Quests, I just don’t have the time, money or effort to put into a new boxed game every other month (not sure how anyone else has it either). As such, I’ll likely be giving this a miss unless it offers me a reasonable reason to pick up the minis for 40k, and I’ll just stick to the main games for now.

But that's the new sales model. A new game every other month so you don't have time to properly try any of them out and see how half-assed they all are before you're already moving to the next big release.

It is? How many half-assed games have they released in the last year? I see Shadespire, Necromunda, Titanicus, Kill Team, Blitz Bowl, AoS Champions, Renegade... of those, I can see an argument for Renegade, which despite having post-release support in WD is mostly a vessel to sell Knights. Other than that... not really. So I'd be curious what you're basing this on. I've seen you saying this Before without backing it up with examples. You might have had a point in 2016, but that's two years ago.

Hmmm, I don't know that, rhetorically speaking, saying somebody's behavior was two years ago so it is too ancient to count is really agreed upon as being a universal truth. I thought the point was a little salty at first, but looking through that list, Renegade and Shadow War definitely support it, Blood Bowl and Necromunda are just redos, don't know about Titanicus yet... seems like Geedubs definitely prioritize cramming a lot of stuff out there, and it's pretty hit or miss.