Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Vaktathi wrote:
The problem with the Demolisher is the cost and range. You've got a third the range of a Battlecannon for 80% more cost. Instead of being able to hit anything on the board corner to corner, you have to get within Rapid Fire range. For this you get about 25% better performance against T7 3+sv or lower behicles and monsters, and about 66% better performance against T8+ 3+sv vehicle and monster units, with broadly equal or lower effectiveness against infantry targets (depending on wound count and save and model count) and pay 40pts instead of 22.

I think the extra performance against big targets is more than counterbalanced by the loss in range (leaving turns without anything to being that gun ti bear against) and 18pt price differential.

Then again if you can count on shooting corner to corner there#s something wrong with the terrain.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Im a big fan of the HB sponsons. Your not having to move Russ tanks all the time so they can fire at full effect often, they're relatively cheap, multiple shots means the -1 to hit on the move hurts less, and with the ability to split fire makes the Russ a bit more flexible.

To be honest, I think my favorite Russ config this edition is the old school classic, especially if you're taking a horde of em, BC with hull LC and sponson HB's. 180pts, able to engage a wide array of targets competentlt but without being the best at any one thing.

I have 3 of those. Standard Arse kicking supreme command right there. Got the Hull mount magnetized - sometimes HB - sometimes LC.

Aye, tis a glorious setup, and appropriately functional probably for the first time since 2E really. I really like that config and it works for both HS and HQ tanks rather well.

LC on commanders - HB for HS?

tneva82 wrote:

Then again if you can count on shooting corner to corner there#s something wrong with the terrain.

Shouldn't happen all the time, but having the ability is nice, and against larger targets like BT's or Knights is not too difficult. But yeah, mostly its about just being able to hit the other deployment zone not corner to corner.

Xenomancers wrote:
LC on commanders - HB for HS?

If I have the points I like the LC on all, but id definitely prioritize them for the Commanders if points are tight
I have some older (pre 5E) Russ tanks with the old kit sporting a permanent triple HB config that I use frequently as HS tanks.

Punisher, Battle Tank, Executioner.

Punisher is the only really good one. 40 shots per turn is pretty sweet, even if you don't hit on 3's and re-roll 1's.

Battle Tanks are fairly good when buffed, but kind of lame un-buffed [so be catachan or a cadian tank commander for the re-rolled shots]. Battle Tanks' gun is nothing to really write home about, but the chassis is tough. While the Manticore may on paper be superior, having indirect fire and being marginally cheaper, they can't be squadroned and, if you're Cadian, don't get the sweet re-rolled shot buff.

Executioners are basically like battle tanks, but they take mortal wounds on 1's and have +1 AP. I would avoid running it as anything other than a TC for your re-rolled 1's. I prefer BT's, though, but the difference is largely cosmetic. That said, Battle Tanks also have twice the range, and you should be able to draw long range shots on any reasonable board, and no matter how many basilisks you have there will be a time where you wish your tank had more range, especially if you're cadian and don't want to move them.

Eradicators are basically worse battle tanks and executioners, spring for the S8, don't bother with these.

There's no real positive point for the exterminator. It doesn't really bring anything to the table, and is kind of just a worse Battle Tank/Executioner. Again, spring for the S8 and improved AP.

Vanquisher are crap. Aggressively terrible, just avoid them. Like, they're not good at sticking damage to tanks in any form, nor are they good at killing infantry.

Is it worth it to invest in the Astra Militarum Tank Accessories sprue? Do they have anything on them that are worth the points in 8th?

Thanks

SG

 ServiceGames wrote:
Is it worth it to invest in the Astra Militarum Tank Accessories sprue? Do they have anything on them that are worth the points in 8th?

Thanks

SG

Depends how you look at it!

You get some cool bits for modelling, that's pretty nice.

Does it open up worthwhile options on the tabletop?

Not really. Dozer blades and track armour aren't really worth it. Hunter killer is ok on Pask and just about on Commanders, but not a regular Russ. Pintle weapons are meh... Well, Storm Bolter is ok I guess. The hull weapon is redundant as it doesn't fit a Russ and you get a Flamer with the Russ anyway.

Also if you ever plan to get Chimeras then you get most of the stuff on this sprue included anyway, so you might well have spares.

Im still irked they removed that sprue from most of the vehicles, it used to be standard in all of them and now they have the balls to charge $15 for it

 ServiceGames wrote:
Is it worth it to invest in the Astra Militarum Tank Accessories sprue? Do they have anything on them that are worth the points in 8th?

Thanks

SG

No. There's nothing really particularly desirable on that sprue, just accessories, and not a really great selection of accessories at that.

I accessorize my tanks with leftover bits from other kits, both 40 and historical.

After playing many games executioners are the only ones I would take. I’ve had battlecannons fail to kill single primaris marines because of the variable damage and only -2 ap. Guaranteed damage and better ap is much better. Especially now with the new going 2nd stratagem. However leman russes are pretty bad in general.

I find Catachan Executioners with Plasma Cannon sponsons to be great MEQ- and TEQ-killers. You don't even need a Tank Commander - just park Harker somewhere between them PlasTanks and there you go, always shoot with overcharged Plasma at everything.

Against hordes, you're better off with Cadian Punishers with HB sponsons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

There's no real positive point for the exterminator. It doesn't really bring anything to the table, and is kind of just a worse Battle Tank/Executioner. Again, spring for the S8 and improved

I always figured that the Exterminator is a slightly worse, yet more reliable Battle Cannon. You lose range, 1 S and 1 AP, but on the other hand, you will ALWAYS have 8 shots with Grinding Advance doing 2 damage each. The Battle Cannon hits harder but is more risky - there's always the possibility of only getting 1-2 shots doing only 1-2 damage, even more so if you're not Catachan.
I think it can perform well against units that are high T, multi-would and light-armor (read: 5+ or 6+ Sv). Something like Ogryns, for example. I'm not sure if there are many such units in other armies though.

I liked exterminators last edition. I used them as a do all tank with a hull heavy flamer and sponson multi-meltas.

What really hurt them for me was that they didn't get the double shots for twin linked like every other weapon did. Getting 8/16 shots a turn would be a huge improvement over the current 4/8.

Vostroyan commanders in punishers/demolishers with heavy flamers are a blast.

I took a liking to Exterminators, since my Dice luck is terrible. They are more reliable and the 3 pts more you pay for the reliability are not bad. Then again i play R&H so this is my only way to get reliability on the Leman russes, that or run the bullethose setup on the punishers (which btw is hillarious 52 shots is just insane). If you have traits and tank commanders though it is not even a competition between Battlecannons vs Exterminator cannons.

One point I'll bring up for the Leman Russ Punisher and Demolisher that most folks might not realize and helps their short range a touch.

Run them as Vostroyan for the bonus 6" range to the Punisher and Demoliser Cannon. It gives them a 30" range while stationary, or 35" if moving and still firing to full effect, or 40" if they need to move their full distance and at least fire one salvo instead of two.

For additional lulz, you get access to the unique Vostroyan Stratagem: Firstborn Pride. For 1 CP, add +1 to hit to a single unit.

You have a command Leman Russ Punisher, use that stratagem on it, then use the Gunners, Kill on Sight tank commander order and you're firing 40 shots hitting on 2's, re-rolling 1's from the turret, and whatever other shots the sponsons, hull and pintle mount get (unless you're running a storm bolter, then it hits on 2's as well) hitting on 3's, re-rolling 1's if you're moving.

Works great on the demolisher for the same reason. Granted, fewer shots, but getting an all-but-guaranteed hit with all 2 to 6 shots is quite nice, and the bonus range helps make sure you get the shot on the target you want.

Something to consider for those looking to try new stuff. I run Vostroyans here and have found that particular pairing of Regimental Rules and stratagem to be amazingly effective. I've dropped a 30 man unit at full strength down to three models with my command punisher, which I've dubbed "Dirge". It's all heavy bolters (Hull + Sponsons) and a pintle mounted heavy stubber; 40 punisher cannon shots, 9 heavy bolter shots, and 3 heavy stubber shots makes whatever infantry unit you're shooting at reflect upon the life choices that brought them to be standing in front of that particular command tank.

That's all I've got to add for now. Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Not Online!!! wrote:
I took a liking to Exterminators, since my Dice luck is terrible. They are more reliable and the 3 pts more you pay for the reliability are not bad. Then again i play R&H so this is my only way to get reliability on the Leman russes, that or run the bullethose setup on the punishers (which btw is hillarious 52 shots is just insane). If you have traits and tank commanders though it is not even a competition between Battlecannons vs Exterminator cannons.

The thing is, most of the Leman Russes are really the same thing with some minor changes. Conqueror, Battle Tank, Executioner, Exterminator, Eradicator all have roughly the same profile and cost roughly about the same, so why bring the one with the marginally weaker profile.

Another consideration is the fact that most vehicle targets are T7, Sv3+, so those with poor S or AP but no real increase in shot count or damage don't really have a place.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
I took a liking to Exterminators, since my Dice luck is terrible. They are more reliable and the 3 pts more you pay for the reliability are not bad. Then again i play R&H so this is my only way to get reliability on the Leman russes, that or run the bullethose setup on the punishers (which btw is hillarious 52 shots is just insane). If you have traits and tank commanders though it is not even a competition between Battlecannons vs Exterminator cannons.

The thing is, most of the Leman Russes are really the same thing with some minor changes. Conqueror, Battle Tank, Executioner, Exterminator, Eradicator all have roughly the same profile and cost roughly about the same, so why bring the one with the marginally weaker profile.

Another consideration is the fact that most vehicle targets are T7, Sv3+, so those with poor S or AP but no real increase in shot count or damage don't really have a place.

I face alot of Aeldari and tau, so i might be biased in favour of the autocannon profile. Still personally i belive the Russes were a wasted oppurtunity, especially since the band-aid solution of "grinding advance did not solve any problems other factions have which have the same weaponry. (Cough Defilers, Vindicators, etc.) Also the problem is that exterminator autocannons were not transitioned properly since they were twinlinked before, ergo they should be 8/16 shots. Granted that nears punisher levels and i think the price should be according.

Not Online!!! wrote:

Spoiler:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
I took a liking to Exterminators, since my Dice luck is terrible. They are more reliable and the 3 pts more you pay for the reliability are not bad. Then again i play R&H so this is my only way to get reliability on the Leman russes, that or run the bullethose setup on the punishers (which btw is hillarious 52 shots is just insane). If you have traits and tank commanders though it is not even a competition between Battlecannons vs Exterminator cannons.

The thing is, most of the Leman Russes are really the same thing with some minor changes. Conqueror, Battle Tank, Executioner, Exterminator, Eradicator all have roughly the same profile and cost roughly about the same, so why bring the one with the marginally weaker profile.

Another consideration is the fact that most vehicle targets are T7, Sv3+, so those with poor S or AP but no real increase in shot count or damage don't really have a place.

I face alot of Aeldari and tau, so i might be biased in favour of the autocannon profile. Still personally i belive the Russes were a wasted oppurtunity, especially since the band-aid solution of "grinding advance did not solve any problems other factions have which have the same weaponry. (Cough Defilers, Vindicators, etc.) Also the problem is that exterminator autocannons were not transitioned properly since they were twinlinked before, ergo they should be 8/16 shots. Granted that nears punisher levels and i think the price should be according.

That's kind of obvious. A lot of the weapons need serious re-works to either create them a niche or at least some kind of purpose, instead they just tacked on the double-fire rule and left other vehicles that share the weapon in the pits. The Demolisher cannon is most notable.

One thing of note is that, for the most part, the Battle Cannon profile on the Leman Russ has reached a point where it's established to be "largely adequate". It's not great, but it's probably fine, and fairly decent when buffed.

No arguing with that Katherina. I personally still belive that grinding advance should be a common rule instead then just IG, or that battlecannons should have been 2d6 shots for all the users of it with the same bs.

It also does not help that tanks need to move to profit from the grinding advance rule, which pretty much makes sponsons useless....