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Aren't Orks getting a rule that they always hit on 5+ regardless of modifiers? Or did I imagine that...

 NurglesR0T wrote:
Aren't Orks getting a rule that they always hit on 5+ regardless of modifiers? Or did I imagine that...

Always hit on unmodified 6s

6s at worst, before you panic. The rule also gives them the DTTFE mechanic on their shooting so their shooting got a pretty decent, but still not quite 4+ BS buff.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
...Orks encourage MSU? You mean the army who's primary troop choice has two abilities that depend on having large units to work?

Agreed, that makes no sense.

I think the main problem is that the game is now far too killy for "basic" troops to stand a chance of surviving past turn 3. Which means you HAVE to take 180 boyz just to camp objectives. And out of 30 boyz how many are realistically going to make it to combat?

This, which is something the game has been trending towards for a while. Ever since GW really blurred the line between apoc and standard games, a lot of things are really out of wack and that's a reason a lot of units are far worse for there point cost. I feel this as a marine player.

When a lot of things kill me the same whether I'm a space marine, a guardsmen, a broadside or an ork boy, not taking the cheaper option becomes a bad bet. Conversely to the above, if a guardsmen with a las gun has the same chance to hurt some of the bigger stuff as a lot of other units, then it makes sense to either take a ton of cheap chaff and a few hard hitting units. I like 8th but the game needs to tone down how hyper lethal things are. One of the things I miss about 5th.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
6s at worst, before you panic. The rule also gives them the DTTFE mechanic on their shooting so their shooting got a pretty decent, but still not quite 4+ BS buff.

Right. Thanks for clarifying

 Dashofpepper wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Slaanesh Daemons, because they are fun, funny, enjoyable to throw en masse into combat, and you get to scream from time to time. Also because they are absolutely lethal, glass cannon, shock and awe, surgical disaster that people don't think are competitive.

Low model count? High model count? Any chance you can point me at a battle report or two? The friend trying to get me back into 40k was pointing me at Demons; I think primarily because there are lots of cheap Nurgle things for sale on ebay or something. I need a new frame of reference for them - I remember Demons meaning Obliterators, Defilers, Horrors, little zombies, Demon Princes, and all of it was universally something Dark Eldar could laugh off of the table.

Can go either way. Rank and file hooves on the ground cost 7pts each, but your big beasties can be pricey.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
...Orks encourage MSU? You mean the army who's primary troop choice has two abilities that depend on having large units to work?

You have army that has soft units that get wiped out. 1 unit will not survive. Sub standard gunline will blow TWO ork boy units in a turn. If you rely on one unit as ork you are doing it wrong. You need to swarm them with tons of units. That's complete opposite to strategems which boost one unit. Orks rely on swarming enemy with multiple units as their units don't do individually anything or even survive. Thus you need backups. And backups of a backups. If you take 6 units of boyz you can count on having no boyz on turn 4. If you want to have something at the end of SIXTH turn you need to have more like dozen units.

tneva82 wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
...Orks encourage MSU? You mean the army who's primary troop choice has two abilities that depend on having large units to work?

You have army that has soft units that get wiped out. 1 unit will not survive. Sub standard gunline will blow TWO ork boy units in a turn. If you rely on one unit as ork you are doing it wrong. You need to swarm them with tons of units. That's complete opposite to strategems which boost one unit. Orks rely on swarming enemy with multiple units as their units don't do individually anything or even survive. Thus you need backups. And backups of a backups. If you take 6 units of boyz you can count on having no boyz on turn 4. If you want to have something at the end of SIXTH turn you need to have more like dozen units.

Which in turn...doesn't work very well in the tournament scene, where I've just heard that chess clocks are becoming increasingly popular. Part of my original switch from Orks to Dark Eldar was the sheer time it took to deploy boyz and nobs from multiple battlewagons and trukks, all within the 2" mark, declare a Waaaugh!, then shoot or run, then assault in, then roll masses of dice....with Ghazghkull leading the army and a pretty typical turn 2 assault; it was common for Turn 2 to take an hour of assaulting, dice rolling, and model removing between an opponent and I, and for turn 3 to take another hefty 30-45 minutes. Worse when I'd take pictures for battle reports.

I hear that Orks are even more unfeasible as a tournament army nowadays in terms of point limits and time available.

To be fair, we don't know the Ork power builds yet. It could be more Toyz than Boyz.

The best Ork army is actually gonna be pure Grots, jokes on all of you.

That would be glorious.