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 iGuy91 wrote:
Best thing to do would just change the primaris to just be a new founding with pure geneseed from 30k times, with new handy gear, rather than just marines ++

Just go and update all the marine boxes to reflect the new gear, and that way you don't have to invalidate the old units.

All primaris are alpha legion in disguise!

 Mr BugBear wrote:

Okay this is just a bit of fun for those of us feeling salty about the Primaris and the shift in fluff tones. If you found yourself at the helm of things and were to write the Primaris out or at least stop their progression, how would you do it?

Have it revealed that Primaris are just the Thunder Warriors remade again, and they quickly begin suffering the same problems. Their mental instability starts acting up, and all of a sudden there's a lot less of them from cell degeneration, and you have a cool new plot line instead of this awful "Space Marines but better!" drivel.

 insaniak wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

You're confusing marines with the Custodes; marines are not functionally immortal.

According to the Horus Heresy books they are.

Either way, there's no mention anywhere of a Marine dying of old age. Dante's over a thousand years old, and still in fighting form.

In the Perturabo Primarch novel, while fighting the Hrud, numerous Iron Warriors were exposed to essentially being fast forwarded in time causing them to age and die. The fact that they we still alive and kicking at the start of the book despite being exposed to these fields sometimes numerous times (and the fact that all of their human Auxilia support had already perished to time warps before the events in the novel unfolded) leads me to believe that marines are not fictionally immortal, just extraordinarily long lived

You could do as I do and not read it, then pretend it doesn't exist.

I'm massively cynical about the reasons for it being introduced in the first place, which was entirely down to wanting to push a new line of miniatures and try and get everyone (as everyone already owns tons of marines) to go out and buy some more. It's treated 30-years of background with a disrespectful nonchalance, and should be treated dismissively in turn.

Nothing to stop you using the miniatures as correctly 'true scale' marines if you want to play 40k. Or just play Epic.

 Pacific wrote:
You could do as I do and not read it, then pretend it doesn't exist.

I'm massively cynical about the reasons for it being introduced in the first place, which was entirely down to wanting to push a new line of miniatures and try and get everyone (as everyone already owns tons of marines) to go out and buy some more. It's treated 30-years of background with a disrespectful nonchalance, and should be treated dismissively in turn.

Nothing to stop you using the miniatures as correctly 'true scale' marines if you want to play 40k. Or just play Epic.

Wouldn't remaking all marines in truescale have been a better way to go? And even buffing their stats to closer match the fluff? Sure it would piss off the minority marine haters but I'd think the vast majority of players would've been excited to rebuild their marine armies in 'truescale'. That sounds like a cash cow to me.

Why not wrote out the tau too? God I remember the hate for tnetau and tau players when the tau we're new. I remember how one guy names "seerbrun" in particular just threw buckets of chit in the faces of tau players, insulted and abused them, started flame wars with them and got them banned from a forum, etc.

Why not write out any army some peolle don't like? As a necron I sure hate Tzeentch armies amd their win the battle in 2 psychic phases ability when dealing with no psyker armies.

 Mr BugBear wrote:

Wouldn't remaking all marines in truescale have been a better way to go? And even buffing their stats to closer match the fluff? Sure it would piss off the minority marine haters but I'd think the vast majority of players would've been excited to rebuild their marine armies in 'truescale'. That sounds like a cash cow to me.

I am not sure about that. Many people say that now, but it is completely different matter what would have actually happened. This whole stupid Primaris lore is to avoid the new guys seeming like a straight up replacement, and giving you a plot reason to field you old and new marines side by side. I don't particularly like it, but that's the rationale. And if people want to rebuild their army in the truescale using the new models, they can do it just fine now. Some people are insanely hung up on the Primaris keyword or that some weapon options are different. But if you're going to rebuild everything anyway, what does it matter that you can't give them the exact same loadouts than your old guys? A Space Marine is a Space Marine.

Something people may be overlooking... aren't the Primaris a bunch of marines who have been sitting around in stasis for a long time? Wouldn't that mean there is a finite number of them?

Eventually, the supply will be exhausted. Primaris Marines die like any other Marines so the supply would need to be replenished.

Now that Marneus has been supersized, there's some directions GW can go with the fluff. The Imperium could continue enhancing regular Marines to become Primaris, they could choose to abandon this practice, they could do something entirely different.

If it was me, I would just let them die out and increase the scale of the models. I'd do it for the sake of practicality, GW already has it's hands full managing datasheets for models they already have. They don't need lots of different variants of Marines, they need a Marine statline with good rules.

Thunder Warriors - turns out Cawl is a sham and all he did was rediscover the recipe for Thunder Warriors. As a result, the Primaris grow increasingly unstable and violent. Combined with their limited lifespan, it is decided that the flaws are too great to allow them to operate normally. It is decreed that primaris are to be placed into stasis, only to be awoken for battle. Oh and they put new seats in the repulser and realize anyone can use it...

Or, you know, you could do what I do. Buy the models you like and ignore the fluff you don’t like.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
Or, you know, you could do what I do. Buy the models you like and ignore the fluff you don’t like.

They're there now, so why bother writing them out. Mind you I'm also against writing out old marines or having Primaris Chaos marines.

I would have liked there to be a trade off being better than regular SM and easier to produce viable recruits for, but with aa limited shelf life.

Then again, I kind of wish they kept with the perception that Bobby G. wasn't thrilled with Calgar, so he sent him to Vigilus unchanged, and made I WhatevertheHellhisnameis a Primaris and is left in charge of Ultramar. Meanwhile Abaddon proves that he can go toe to toe with Bobby G. and is able to keep him back pedaling. While this happens, Fulgrim shows up and takes McCragge with the EC. Hearing of this, Calgar takes his old marines and drives off Fulgrim. I think a scenario like this would go some way to proving GWs claims they don't plan on doing away with old marines.

Cawl's modifications causes all Primaris to become psychically endowed, and they are all moved to the Grey Knights. Then, due to a curse placed on the Grey Knights by a ascendent Slaanesh, their marine organs atrophy and to save them, Cawl is forced to molt them into females. Those that survive the process continue their service to the Emperor, become Sisters of Battle.

The entire thing exists because of GW Legal. The ideal solution would be to just release a new mark of Armour, "True Scale" it and leave it at that. Perhaps find some way of making SM and CSM a little more durable (i.e. NOT two wounds) and try and rebuild the Marine armies from the ground up.

 Mr BugBear wrote:

Wouldn't remaking all marines in truescale have been a better way to go? .

In an ideal world, yes, that would have been better. But due to the sheer number of kits that would have needed to be replaced all at once, it wouldn't have been economically viable. For all that I'm not a fan of the scale creep, introducing them as something new was a clever way of going 'true scale' while allowing the models to be drip-fed out over time, rather than trying to replace the entire range at once.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 techsoldaten wrote:
Something people may be overlooking... aren't the Primaris a bunch of marines who have been sitting around in stasis for a long time? Wouldn't that mean there is a finite number of them?

The initial batch were. Then they started applying the process to new recruits. And now with Marneus leading the way, we'll start seeing other existing marine characters similarly upgraded.

I would start by having the Primaris marines execute order 66 on the old marines, replacing them as the defacto marines of the Imperium. Once all the old marines are gone, we can remove their models from the real world and replace them with more Primaris units!

I agree that just dropping Primaris marines from the lore would be the correct way to go. I have a problem with keeping the larger sized models though. If you keep them, and call it true to scale, relative to other human models, then now you have to scale the other miniatures as well. Eldar, Chaos, Orks, Necrons, Custodes. I'd rather the models be kept the way they were for the last decade. Model updates would be fine, but size scaling creates lots of problems with keeping the other models true to scale. Not to mention, it makes the board look stupid and ugly when you're playing or have the models on display/ Either scale the ENTIRE RANGE or don't do so at all.

And make all models in plastic already.

It would be neat if Cawl found Arik Taranis - the last Thunder Warrior who presumably found the aid to what ailed them (in the form of Astartes Gene seed) and that's the secret to Primaris marines- they are an inferior physical form of Thunder warriors (but still greeater than old astartes) but with less of the defects.

That and the primaris prject needs to he rolled in with the long established “cursed founding” and its attempts to tamper with gene seed. I'd love it if that was essentially the beta version of primaris marinesl.

 insaniak wrote:

This would be accompanied by a blurb explaining that the Primarchs being 12-foot tall was just propaganda. Guilliman being so huge would be due to his 'armour' actually being a giant battlesuit, and other Primarchs would be revealed to be closer to Marine size.

I thought it was confirmed all the Primarchs save for Alpharius/Oregon were a least a foot or two bigger than your average marine.

I wouldn’t write them out. I love them. There is so much other stuff that could change first. I’d probably have the emperor die, or better yet, have been dead the whole time.

I second the call that primarchs should just be the size of a marine. So stupid the size they are now. (Not demon ones, they can do what they like).

The thing calling itself Cawl is revealed to be an Abominable Intelligence the real Cawl found, accidentally released, and was taken over by during the Heresy.

'Primaris Marines' are brain dead living corpses puppeted by smaller, less capable copies of the Cawl AI, implanted under the guise of a bio-mechanical trojan horse called the 'Magnificat' gene-seed implant. The Sinew Coils replacing some of the living corpse's biological sinew is required by the nascent AI, giving it a mechanical system it can easily control to puppet it's new body around. The 'Belisarian Furnace' implant activates more often than advertised, and serves primarily to keep the meatsuit puppet it's installed into from decomposing.

All the 'newly designed' equipment, from mark X armor onwards, is found to be DAoT / MoI tech that the Cawl AI rebuilt from it's memory banks.

This realization causes Heresy Mk II, Men of Iron Boogaloo. Cawl and Primaris models get moved into their own Codex: Men of Iron.

 Graysparrow wrote:
The thing calling itself Cawl is revealed to be an Abominable Intelligence the real Cawl found, accidentally released, and was taken over by during the Heresy.

'Primaris Marines' are brain dead living corpses puppeted by smaller, less capable copies of the Cawl AI, implanted under the guise of a bio-mechanical trojan horse called the 'Magnificat' gene-seed implant. The Sinew Coils replacing some of the living corpse's biological sinew is required by the nascent AI, giving it a mechanical system it can easily control to puppet it's new body around. The 'Belisarian Furnace' implant activates more often than advertised, and serves primarily to keep the meatsuit puppet it's installed into from decomposing.

All the 'newly designed' equipment, from mark X armor onwards, is found to be DAoT / MoI tech that the Cawl AI rebuilt from it's memory banks.

This realization causes Heresy Mk II, Men of Iron Boogaloo. Cawl and Primaris models get moved into their own Codex: Men of Iron.

I'd buy that for a dollar!