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 Trickstick wrote:

chimera0205 wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

 Sir Heckington wrote:
That's what Mantas are for!

I thought Mantas were for annoying my Battleship whilst my Fury Interceptors were busy dealing with all those Emperor-damned guided torpedoes...

I hated Tau fleets,
and Chaos fleets,
and Ork fleets,
and Eldar fleets,
and definitely Necron Fleets.

so the only fleets you did like were Tyranid ones and other imperium ones?

Our group didn't have those. It just had slaughter class cruisers, brute ramships, custodians, bs Eldar nonsense and horrible Necron death. I eventually learned to just throw scores of torpedoes in just the right places to make the enemy move the right way to kill them. Unless I was playing the planet killer, then everything exploded.

I did eventually get revenge with a Ramillies though.

as someone who has never played Battlefleet gothic the only word that mad sense there was torpedos

chimera0205 wrote:
as someone who has never played Battlefleet gothic the only word that mad sense there was torpedos

Lol. Basically "everyone had the equivalent of your worst knightmare and being Imperial was not fun".

Well, it was fun, but in a very much underdog sort of way.

chimera0205 wrote:

 John Prins wrote:
The design of the Vespid miniatures is their biggest ball drop. Do they look like they can fly, even a little?

Some Tarellian lizard-dog-men-things would make cool auxiliaries for some CC or heavy weapon action. The Tau don't need psykers, but some anti-psyker technology would be nice. Maybe they could reverse engineer something from a Necron Pylon or something, like some kind of waste product from their Startide Nexus wormhole.

well the Tau themselves dont need to devolpe psychers obviously but would using a psycher race be such a bad thing. they do need some way to counter imperium, eldar, and ork psychers

also do the drones from halo look like they can fly?m name one scifi insect race that actually looks like it should be capable of flight

Look, I'm not talking about "Hell yeah, totally within the realm of physics" flight, I'm talking about "Yeah, it's got wings it could flap or something." Vespid don't have wings, they have big armored flanges off their shoulders.

I mean Tyranid Gargoyles have actual wings that look like wings, why is this so hard?

The kroot could easily expand, jsut allow variations that are based on specific race's dna.



Eldar kroot, ork kroot, human kroot and maybe even spess muhreen kroot.

 Techpriestsupport wrote:
The kroot could easily expand, jsut allow variations that are based on specific race's dna.



Eldar kroot, ork kroot, human kroot and maybe even spess muhreen kroot.

Way before doing that you've got Vulture Kroot, Knarlocs, Great Knarlocs, Shamans, and Headhunters out of the old White Dwarf book, give the Great Knarloc three or four gun options and you've got a bigger model range than the Harlequins.

Cynista wrote:
Whilst I do agree that the Kroot and especially Vespids are very underdeveloped as is the lack of the expansion of the Tau Auxillary... They've been shown a lot of love by GW and FW over the years in general. The Riptide, Stormsurge, Ghostkeel, new Broadsides, Razorshark etc. They've seen a lot of additions in a relatively short period. Tyranids as well get nice big new toys fairly reguarly. Both of them get far more love than either Orks or Necrons - the only two truly neglected factions in modern 40k.

I'd be a lot more interested in Tau if they actually got updates that weren't "battlesuit #536 BUT THIS TIME ITS GOT A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT GATLING LOOKING GUN TO SUIT #374"

For a faction pumped up for having a wide variety of servant races and technology, they have one of the most samey looking ranges in the game in my opinion. Surely they've got at least a couple of problems that aren't solved by making bigger and bigger battlesuits. Show me a baneblade esque hover tank that's bigger than a hammerhead, maybe instead of a battlesuits some sort of crisis sized humanoid drone, maybe suits that use a non humanoid design, etc. Or you know, just give us some xenos auxillary units and Gue'la.

Just think of genetic specialization as an upgrade for a squad.

Orks: toughness, maybe some sort of waaauuugh related ability
Eldar psychic power maybe?
Human: we'll think of something....
Spess muhreen: higher stats period, high points cost, elite only.

chimera0205 wrote:

 mew28 wrote:
Yes it is space marines sell like hot cakes. Kroot and vespids not so much.

Then why not just get rid of all the xenos species and just make it imperium vs choas because whats the point if even having tau, tyranids, and necrons if your not even gonna pay even the slightest bit of attention to them?

"If your product makes $100,000 a year in profit, but you WANT a million dollars a year in profit, you should just stop selling it and make no profit at all because you're not getting the profit margins you want."

 BlaxicanX wrote:

chimera0205 wrote:

 mew28 wrote:
Yes it is space marines sell like hot cakes. Kroot and vespids not so much.

Then why not just get rid of all the xenos species and just make it imperium vs choas because whats the point if even having tau, tyranids, and necrons if your not even gonna pay even the slightest bit of attention to them?

"If your product makes $100,000 a year in profit, but you WANT a million dollars a year in profit, you should just stop selling it and make no profit at all because you're not getting the profit margins you want."

Excellent burn!!!

 BlaxicanX wrote:

chimera0205 wrote:

 mew28 wrote:
Yes it is space marines sell like hot cakes. Kroot and vespids not so much.

Then why not just get rid of all the xenos species and just make it imperium vs choas because whats the point if even having tau, tyranids, and necrons if your not even gonna pay even the slightest bit of attention to them?

"If your product makes $100,000 a year in profit, but you WANT a million dollars a year in profit, you should just stop selling it and make no profit at all because you're not getting the profit margins you want."

Well i was clearly using hyperbole but whstever

chimera0205 wrote:
When GW created the Tau Empire they gave themselves oppurtunity to create unique xenos without having to give them thier faction. They created the Kroot and the Vespid then..... nothing. No Nicassar battle psychers, no Tarellian firewarriors, No Demiurg, nothing. They had the perfect oppurtunity and wasted it. Instead of cool new interesting xenos we get Primaris marines, the custodes getting there own freaking faction (Who the hell even asked for that) and the sisters of silence also getting there own army (once again WHO ASKED FOR THAT?!) If by some slim chance anyone from GW is reading this please stop jacking off the imperium and give the Xenos the spotlight like for at least 5 minutes? Is that too much to ask for?

I'd argue that the biggest ball drop was either:
A, Introducing the Tau in the first place; or
B, Veering off from the established lore and introducing the Riptide, instead of sticking with the use of airpower to deal with big targets.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Way before doing that you've got Vulture Kroot, Knarlocs, Great Knarlocs, Shamans, and Headhunters out of the old White Dwarf book, give the Great Knarloc three or four gun options and you've got a bigger model range than the Harlequins.

Any Vulture Kroot kit must include a head with a fez (or, at least, and optional fez that can be added to a head).

I think the thing to do would be to add gue'vesa with all the options of it as well as add more kroot and a bit more vespid but for vespid to work in a tau army another battlesuit "I know" that's fast and possibly a valkaryie like thing to drop them off. I think that would be cool. also for fluff wise I think they need to make the shield wall thing (forgot name) a bit better to show off more of the tactics, but you also have toremember the imperium has nine armies but cover between 2/3 and 4/5 of the galaxy wheareas the tau have12 star systems so first of all their wholepopulation is probably less that a hive world and yes the do have FTL but don't need it to be as fast as IOM

Different people want different things - but imo the problem is the appearance. Most people want a unified collection of models that looks good on the table. This means a certainly degree of "sameyness".

An army which has Tau, and Kroot, and Vespid, and humans, and weird squid psykers and demiurg and... would likely look like a mess. I guess a unified colour scheme can cover a lot of sins - but there are limits. Frankly just Kroot and Tau looked awkward all the way back from their introduction.

Much like the Dark Eldar equivalent did. They could perhaps re-release the archons court and beasts outside of finecast - and we do have plastic ur-ghouls now - but that doesn't mean they really "fit in" with the army.

I know people love the idea of human auxillaries - but it seems like a total waste of time to me. If you want to play guard, go play guard. Do we really need the option to put human heads on fire warriors with essentially the same stats?

As has been suggested, I think the best that could be hoped for in the short run is a re-imagining and re-release of the kroot line. With say 3-4 kits you could have something comparable to Harlequins. You would just need to work out what their niche is rather than explicitly being a bit rubbish.

chimera0205 wrote:

 mew28 wrote:
Yes it is space marines sell like hot cakes. Kroot and vespids not so much.

Then why not just get rid of all the xenos species and just make it imperium vs choas because whats the point if even having tau, tyranids, and necrons if your not even gonna pay even the slightest bit of attention to them?

But...but...MAHREENS BEST IN 2000PTS COMPETITIVE!!!!!

Seriously don't give GW and the vast majority of the playerbase ideas like that. They'd love it and fully support it.
Anything to make the game even more dull and boring.
Heck reduce it to just marines. Not even chaos.
And only 3 units from the codex.
And knights.

chimera0205 wrote:

 mew28 wrote:
Yes it is space marines sell like hot cakes. Kroot and vespids not so much.

Then why not just get rid of all the xenos species and just make it imperium vs choas because whats the point if even having tau, tyranids, and necrons if your not even gonna pay even the slightest bit of attention to them?

That's Horus Heresy

In my opinion yeah, they had a great chance to make Tau be an army that had a lot of different models to showcase some of the lesser known races in 40k that might not have been worth making a full army for, but a specialist unit or two could work.

Instead, they just doubled down on "mechas"


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 mew28 wrote:
Yes it is space marines sell like hot cakes. Kroot and vespids not so much.

Chicken and egg. Shiny new plastic models sell like hotcakes, so the ones that have shiny new plastic models get more shiny new plastic models. Expensive chunks of pewter don't sell like hotcakes, so they don't get shiny new plastic models.

This has always been GWs design philosophy (stuff that sells gets more attention) and it's always been ridiculous. If stuff doesn't sell, figure out why don't ignore it for things that do so the stuff that doesn't sell still doesn't sell.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

chimera0205 wrote:

 mew28 wrote:
Yes it is space marines sell like hot cakes. Kroot and vespids not so much.

Then why not just get rid of all the xenos species and just make it imperium vs choas because whats the point if even having tau, tyranids, and necrons if your not even gonna pay even the slightest bit of attention to them?

"If your product makes $100,000 a year in profit, but you WANT a million dollars a year in profit, you should just stop selling it and make no profit at all because you're not getting the profit margins you want."

"Gee Bob, should we devote resources to making a handful of kits for these already complete army that maybe a few people might buy, or should we make entire new armies for Age of Sigmar? Just to shut up the IP lawyers."
"I dunno Dave, maybe we should true-scale some Space Marines instead?"
"Good point. Bob, maybe we could re-release Necromunda and Adeptus Titanicus while we're at it."
"Sure! Hey, Forge World Custodes are selling well, maybe we could make an army out of them."
"Yeah, and while we're at this true-scaling thing, how about making Death Guard an army in its own right?"
"What if we have some left over time, then? Make those kits I mentioned?"
"Nah, let's make some Ork buggies and finally shut up Sisters players and give them plastic minis."

Seriously, guys, as much as I'd like some Tau Auxiliaries and think the Vespid are lumps of crap given life in resin, GW has been making good financial decisions hand over fist lately. Tau, Necron and Nid players have no real cause for salt, especially compared to Ork/Eldar players.

Necrons still have a few kits in finecast though, just like orks.
They should really have adapted all of the finecast kits into hard plastic first.

Agree with the OP here- it was such a ball drop. The problem is, the two things are not mutually exclusive but if they go the way they're going and keep having them play second fiddle to all Battlesuits all the time they need to go the route Chaos Daemons did and split them off.

Daemons were constantly in the same position the Auxiliaries were in their respective codexes. Always taking a backseat so something else whilst other things in the range got developed or added to- Then codex Daemons came along and added a load of new troop types and a vehicle and they had a chance to shine on their own.

GW could do the same with Auxiliaries- do like a "Agents of the Tau Empire" book with loads of odds and sods units and characters that wouldn't otherwise fit elsewhere but, like Daemons can be bound together with the parent army with keywords.

Ruin wrote:
Agree with the OP here- it was such a ball drop. The problem is, the two things are not mutually exclusive but if they go the way they're going and keep having them play second fiddle to all Battlesuits all the time they need to go the route Chaos Daemons did and split them off.

Daemons were constantly in the same position the Auxiliaries were in their respective codexes. Always taking a backseat so something else whilst other things in the range got developed or added to- Then codex Daemons came along and added a load of new troop types and a vehicle and they had a chance to shine on their own.

GW could do the same with Auxiliaries- do like a "Agents of the Tau Empire" book with loads of odds and sods units and characters that wouldn't otherwise fit elsewhere but, like Daemons can be bound together with the parent army with keywords.

that would be really cool too

I suspect the reason they were dropped was because people werent as interested and its easier to sell battlesuits to newcomers

Kroot were always a force that interested me if they fleshed out an army. Imagine some hulking brutes kitted out like The Predator? Maybe an enslaved and gene-enhanced breed of killers made by Dark Eldar?

chimera0205 wrote:
When GW created the Tau Empire they gave themselves oppurtunity to create unique xenos without having to give them thier faction. They created the Kroot and the Vespid then..... nothing. No Nicassar battle psychers, no Tarellian firewarriors, No Demiurg, nothing. They had the perfect oppurtunity and wasted it. Instead of cool new interesting xenos we get Primaris marines, the custodes getting there own freaking faction (Who the hell even asked for that) and the sisters of silence also getting there own army (once again WHO ASKED FOR THAT?!) If by some slim chance anyone from GW is reading this please stop jacking off the imperium and give the Xenos the spotlight like for at least 5 minutes? Is that too much to ask for?

Apparently a lot of people asked for Custodes. I see metric tons of them all over the place these days.

Let me turn this around for a moment.

Nicassar, Tarellian.

Who are these species? I've never even heard of them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ruin wrote:
Agree with the OP here- it was such a ball drop. The problem is, the two things are not mutually exclusive but if they go the way they're going and keep having them play second fiddle to all Battlesuits all the time they need to go the route Chaos Daemons did and split them off.

Daemons were constantly in the same position the Auxiliaries were in their respective codexes. Always taking a backseat so something else whilst other things in the range got developed or added to- Then codex Daemons came along and added a load of new troop types and a vehicle and they had a chance to shine on their own.

GW could do the same with Auxiliaries- do like a "Agents of the Tau Empire" book with loads of odds and sods units and characters that wouldn't otherwise fit elsewhere but, like Daemons can be bound together with the parent army with keywords.

And add yet MORE factions to a game that is already overloaded with playable races. I don't think it's a good idea to make more new stuff.

 Togusa wrote:

chimera0205 wrote:
When GW created the Tau Empire they gave themselves oppurtunity to create unique xenos without having to give them thier faction. They created the Kroot and the Vespid then..... nothing. No Nicassar battle psychers, no Tarellian firewarriors, No Demiurg, nothing. They had the perfect oppurtunity and wasted it. Instead of cool new interesting xenos we get Primaris marines, the custodes getting there own freaking faction (Who the hell even asked for that) and the sisters of silence also getting there own army (once again WHO ASKED FOR THAT?!) If by some slim chance anyone from GW is reading this please stop jacking off the imperium and give the Xenos the spotlight like for at least 5 minutes? Is that too much to ask for?

Apparently a lot of people asked for Custodes. I see metric tons of them all over the place these days.

Let me turn this around for a moment.

Nicassar, Tarellian.

Who are these species? I've never even heard of them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ruin wrote:
Agree with the OP here- it was such a ball drop. The problem is, the two things are not mutually exclusive but if they go the way they're going and keep having them play second fiddle to all Battlesuits all the time they need to go the route Chaos Daemons did and split them off.

Daemons were constantly in the same position the Auxiliaries were in their respective codexes. Always taking a backseat so something else whilst other things in the range got developed or added to- Then codex Daemons came along and added a load of new troop types and a vehicle and they had a chance to shine on their own.

GW could do the same with Auxiliaries- do like a "Agents of the Tau Empire" book with loads of odds and sods units and characters that wouldn't otherwise fit elsewhere but, like Daemons can be bound together with the parent army with keywords.

And add yet MORE factions to a game that is already overloaded with playable races. I don't think it's a good idea to make more new stuff.

so you defend the creation of custodes an army added to a faction that already had 8 diffrent armys but the second a xeno race has the potential for a new army you cry "theres already so many!" I see how it is. theres only already too many armys when its not an imperium army.

chimera0205 wrote:


so you defend the creation of custodes an army added to a faction that already had 8 diffrent armys but the second a xeno race has the potential for a new army you cry "theres already so many!" I see how it is. theres only already too many armys when its not an imperium army.

Because Custodes will sell and does sell.

Theres too many things in the pipeline that creating a playable unit for Tau at the bottom of the list if such a proposition existed.

chimera0205 wrote:
so you defend the creation of custodes an army added to a faction that already had 8 diffrent armys but the second a xeno race has the potential for a new army you cry "theres already so many!" I see how it is. theres only already too many armys when its not an imperium army.

No, Custodes are new, interesting army, not niche single unit belonging to obscure sub-faction in not that popular minor army, that would never sell due to the tiny size of the demand and the fact no sane rules writer would give it rules it would need to outcompete broken Tau can already field...

 Irbis wrote:

chimera0205 wrote:
so you defend the creation of custodes an army added to a faction that already had 8 diffrent armys but the second a xeno race has the potential for a new army you cry "theres already so many!" I see how it is. theres only already too many armys when its not an imperium army.

No, Custodes are new, interesting army, not niche single unit belonging to obscure sub-faction in not that popular minor army, that would never sell due to the tiny size of the demand and the fact no sane rules writer would give it rules it would need to outcompete broken Tau can already field...

well why not do what whats his face was talking about and create an entire new army out of Tau Auxillarys.

Custodes are an army that you can build/paint 2,000 points in a weekend. I absolutely love small, elite armies so I keep costing out a list with 2 squads, 2 landraiders, and two jetbike squads.

If the Tau weren't the greatest idea GW's ever had written so terribly it makes me cry, I'd think a new Aux dex would be cool. But ya know, They'd feth that up too. Maybe if GW squats the Tau it'll be better. At least then we can avoid the constant hate from the playerbase and GW's inability to do good with them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Irbis wrote:

chimera0205 wrote:
so you defend the creation of custodes an army added to a faction that already had 8 diffrent armys but the second a xeno race has the potential for a new army you cry "theres already so many!" I see how it is. theres only already too many armys when its not an imperium army.

No, Custodes are new, interesting army, not niche single unit belonging to obscure sub-faction in not that popular minor army, that would never sell due to the tiny size of the demand and the fact no sane rules writer would give it rules it would need to outcompete broken Tau can already field...

Tau Aux could be cool and interesting too, maybe not to you, but I think Custodes are the most uninteresting army since marines, so that's subjective.

It'd be a mix of races; Vespid, Kroot, Human, Demiurgs, heck they could make new ones just for this! So many options to actually represent the Tau as a union of races other than "HUR DUR, I HAVE BIG SUIT".

It could even begin a Xenos soup for Tau, Eldar and maybe even orks if an aux. Codex was filled with mercenaries.

Perhaps even Imperium armies if you take a rogue trader or ordo xenos inquisitor as the commander.