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 Phobosftw wrote:
Omgomg this is so cool! Specially loving Dat crimson fist rules, looks like 2019 is going to be even awesomer than last year for 8th!

Wait, does this mean I'm going to have to carry around even more books to play ?!
#*#$#*#!
Nooo!

It's 3rd Ed all over again.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ValentineGames wrote:

People didn't bitch before digital was a thing.

Yes, they did. The amount of books people had to carry was a huge complaint in 3rd Ed.

The move away from digital is probably due the piratism. People were uploading the full digital copies minutes after the release.

Having rule content is good. But of course as with every release, we have the usual: why it was <this thing> and not <my thing>? Waah! But assuming that these rule articles are a permanent feature, I'd expect to see additional rule content to many different factions. I hope they make some compendium of this stuff in the end of the year though; if there is not terribly much of it, they could put it in the CA.

Could also be digital sales not being enough to justify the process.

Me? I do like ebooks, but for gaming, I find proper books more convenient. Just easier to flip between pages, YMMV of course.

 Platuan4th wrote:

ValentineGames wrote:

People didn't bitch before digital was a thing.

Yes, they did. The amount of books people had to carry was a huge complaint in 3rd Ed.

Preach it! At least 3rd ed was a decent game that made it worthwhile putting up with the scattered rules.

Regardless of that, it's just not good for the game even if you think well of 8th ed. Saturday's big Christmas game at my local store saw a good deal of arguing about what the current rules are. Scattered rules and constant changes help no one.

 Crimson wrote:
The move away from digital is probably due the piratism. People were uploading the full digital copies minutes after the release.

Yeah. Now they'll be stuck with photos and scans of the physical magazine. How will those dastardly pirates ever cope!

 Geifer wrote:

Yeah. Now they'll be stuck with photos and scans of the physical magazine. How will those dastardly pirates ever cope!

Scanning and arranging a full magazine into a PDF takes some work, much more than just uploading a epub. It's not gonna necessarily happen at all and it will not happen instantly. If you want the full contents RIGHT NOW, there is a higher change you need to actually buy the magazine.

but that sort of pirating is a hassle so is done by far fewer folk which means fewer floating about online.

 Elbows wrote:
Crimson Fists may not be first founding, but they predate the importance of Imperial Fists a long ways. They were one of the first Space Marine chapters heavily featured in art, etc. The now-famous artwork of the RT book, etc.

And IF are yellow. I quite like the look, but who wants to paint yellow? (unless yellow paint has drastically improved, which may well be the case. I much prefer the newer reds to the old ones, so I suppose new yellows could be the same in terms of ease of use).

JWBS wrote:

And IF are yellow. I quite like the look, but who wants to paint yellow? (unless yellow paint has drastically improved, which may well be the case. I much prefer the newer reds to the old ones, so I suppose new yellows could be the same in terms of ease of use).

Painting yellow has not been hard for a long time. At least if people are sensible and use white undercoat instead of black.

 DanielFM wrote:
So Crimson Fists get the good Specialist battalion, then mini codex, and Imperial Fists get a useless Specialist battalion and gets to keep the boring Chapter Trait and relic.
Does it makes sense to you? Imperial Fists are the First Founding chapter, they should be pushed more.

Sorry what....!? Why should first founding chapters always get the love; at the end of the day they are both completely made up armies developed by GW.

Besides as someone else said; Crimson Fists were the first major chapter in the setting. They featured in the first two proper scenarios (Battle at the Farm and Jade Berry Hill) and have appeared on the covers of first edition 40k and the third edition Space Marine Codex. So overall I’m quite happy this classic chapter is getting the love and attention it deserves!!

 Crimson wrote:

 Geifer wrote:

Yeah. Now they'll be stuck with photos and scans of the physical magazine. How will those dastardly pirates ever cope!

Scanning and arranging a full magazine into a PDF takes some work, much more than just uploading a epub. It's not gonna necessarily happen at all and it will not happen instantly. If you want the full contents RIGHT NOW, there is a higher change you need to actually buy the magazine.

Doesn't strike me as the way piracy is approached by the people I've seen with pirated rules. They exclusively brought with the the actual rules they needed to play. My question is, do you really think there is much demand for the filler and not just the rules content? In my opinion WD hasn't been good since the Internet has widely established itself. Why would someone go to the trouble of scanning the entire magazine if what I assume is the vast majority of people only wants the rules?

JWBS wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Crimson Fists may not be first founding, but they predate the importance of Imperial Fists a long ways. They were one of the first Space Marine chapters heavily featured in art, etc. The now-famous artwork of the RT book, etc.

And IF are yellow. I quite like the look, but who wants to paint yellow? (unless yellow paint has drastically improved, which may well be the case. I much prefer the newer reds to the old ones, so I suppose new yellows could be the same in terms of ease of use).

I have a half painted Imperial Fist on my desk right now and my experience with Yriel Yellow has been no better than with Golden Yellow. I wouldn't count on people rushing to paint Imperial Fists anytime soon.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
but that sort of pirating is a hassle so is done by far fewer folk which means fewer floating about online.

Not really. Firstly, because the nature of file sharing means it only takes one person to share the file - the idea that less people will be willing to go to the effort of scanning a physical copy than just posting an existing digital one is incontestable, but the idea that nobody will be willing to go to that effort is unlikely. Secondly, it's even further unlikely due to the contrarian streak among pirates - if you make your product harder to digitise, and especially if you do so explicitly with the goal of thwarting file sharing, some people will go to extra effort to ensure it still gets shared just to make sure that your effort was wasted.

Further, the idea that a meaningful number of people who were previously pirating whole copies of WD Digital are now going to go out and buy physical copies at full price when the rules content and most of the significant article content will still end up floating about online anyway(because people still have phone cameras, and scanning a couple of pages is hardly a Herculean effort) is just nonsense.

If piracy was a significant factor in GW's thinking over cancelling WD Digital, they've still got a fair ways to go about understanding how the internet works despite their recent progress on social media. If they were motivated by something rational, however, I'd say it's probably a simple matter of cost-cutting; the number of people who would be annoyed enough to reduce their spending by losing access to a digital WD now that the Community site exists is probably low enough that no longer having to pay for someone to prep the epub and for hosting still leaves them ahead.

 Legiocustodes wrote:

 DanielFM wrote:
So Crimson Fists get the good Specialist battalion, then mini codex, and Imperial Fists get a useless Specialist battalion and gets to keep the boring Chapter Trait and relic.
Does it makes sense to you? Imperial Fists are the First Founding chapter, they should be pushed more.

Sorry what....!? Why should first founding chapters always get the love; at the end of the day they are both completely made up armies developed by GW.

Besides as someone else said; Crimson Fists were the first major chapter in the setting. They featured in the first two proper scenarios (Battle at the Farm and Jade Berry Hill) and have appeared on the covers of first edition 40k and the third edition Space Marine Codex. So overall I’m quite happy this classic chapter is getting the love and attention it deserves!!

Absolutely agree. They're not 'First Founding'. They're not 'Chapter Number One', but they're the First space marine chapter.

 Geifer wrote:


Doesn't strike me as the way piracy is approached by the people I've seen with pirated rules. They exclusively brought with the the actual rules they needed to play. My question is, do you really think there is much demand for the filler and not just the rules content? In my opinion WD hasn't been good since the Internet has widely established itself. Why would someone go to the trouble of scanning the entire magazine if what I assume is the vast majority of people only wants the rules?

Sure. people will still pirate the rules, but I don't think that's the only thing what the majority of the people want, they want the whole magazine. With the digital it was literally the choice between downloading the whole thing for free, paying money for that download you could get for free, or going to the store to buy the physical copy of the thing you could have gotten for free.

 Crimson wrote:

JWBS wrote:

And IF are yellow. I quite like the look, but who wants to paint yellow? (unless yellow paint has drastically improved, which may well be the case. I much prefer the newer reds to the old ones, so I suppose new yellows could be the same in terms of ease of use).

Painting yellow has not been hard for a long time. At least if people are sensible and use white undercoat instead of black.

Yes. Flat, splotchy mustard smeared over untoasted bread looks aces.

Most of the painting horrors I've seen start with a white undercoat.

ValentineGames wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Dakka: “I want support and rules supplements in White Dwarf.”
Also Dakka: “GAWD now I have to carry more stuff.”

Which wouldn't be a problem if they were digital, and I suspect you knew that before you posted.

People didn't bitch before digital was a thing.
You just photocopy the page and shut up.

So my advice is stop bitching about not being digital. Photocopy the page and shut up.

A lot of folk will just download a photo someone else took anyway, let’s be honest. And if enough folk ask nicely enough once WD is out of print they’ll throw it up as a PDF on WHC.

(My earlier post was clearly tongue in cheek, HBMC, no need to lash out. Just to fully jokesplain, some folk would see rules in WD as a problem regardless of format as it increases the volume of valid rules sources and props up their GW is incompetent narrative. Which isn’t as brief or as funny as filthy snark, so I went with the latter.)

Voss wrote:

Yes. Flat, splotchy mustard smeared over untoasted bread looks aces.

Most of the painting horrors I've seen start with a white undercoat.

Trying to paint light colour over dark undercoat is just madness. You can do it, GW's base paints have pretty good coverage these days, but it completely unnecessary and can easily result very thick layers of paint. White allows thin layers to be applied in a glaze like manner. And speaking of glazes, I can recommend Lamenter's Yellow glaze to everyone who has trouble with yellow.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
but that sort of pirating is a hassle so is done by far fewer folk which means fewer floating about online.

Not really. Firstly, because the nature of file sharing means it only takes one person to share the file - the idea that less people will be willing to go to the effort of scanning a physical copy than just posting an existing digital one is incontestable, but the idea that nobody will be willing to go to that effort is unlikely. Secondly, it's even further unlikely due to the contrarian streak among pirates - if you make your product harder to digitise, and especially if you do so explicitly with the goal of thwarting file sharing, some people will go to extra effort to ensure it still gets shared just to make sure that your effort was wasted.

Further, the idea that a meaningful number of people who were previously pirating whole copies of WD Digital are now going to go out and buy physical copies at full price when the rules content and most of the significant article content will still end up floating about online anyway(because people still have phone cameras, and scanning a couple of pages is hardly a Herculean effort) is just nonsense.

If piracy was a significant factor in GW's thinking over cancelling WD Digital, they've still got a fair ways to go about understanding how the internet works despite their recent progress on social media. If they were motivated by something rational, however, I'd say it's probably a simple matter of cost-cutting; the number of people who would be annoyed enough to reduce their spending by losing access to a digital WD now that the Community site exists is probably low enough that no longer having to pay for someone to prep the epub and for hosting still leaves them ahead.

I always just took it that they had relatively low digital purchaser numbers, so the hassle of reformatting and Apple taking a 30% cut wasn’t worth it.

I was liking the post I saw until it got to the inclusion of rules. Unless they have come up with a way to avoid the time-limited nature of a magazine, I can see it being a problem. What if I start a Crimson Fist force in 8 months time? Will there be back issues available? Do I have to wait for some sort of compilation? Then you have the problem of vastly increasing the number of publications that include rules.

Will have to wait and see, but my heart did sink a little seeing that rules were included. The rest of it looked interesting.

 Trickstick wrote:
What if I start a Crimson Fist force in 8 months time? Will there be back issues available? Do I have to wait for some sort of compilation?

Almost certainly, yeah, wait for the chapter approved. There was a while where they were mostly "best of WD," back when they were putting out a ton of rules. Depending, they could easily resurrect the Index Astartes-style rules compilations/codex supplements.

More info: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/12/24/24th-dec-white-dwarf-and-warhammer-40000gw-homepage-post-4/

New Chapter Tactics. Interesting. I wonder how they will be different from the Imperial Fists Chapter Tactics. Hopefully they have nothing to do with destroying buildings, but Ignore Cover was pretty decent.

I can't wait for my copy!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Dakka: “I want support and rules supplements in White Dwarf.”
Also Dakka: “GAWD now I have to carry more stuff.”

Which wouldn't be a problem if they were digital, and I suspect you knew that before you posted.

I mean this isn't an entire book you gotta carry around. Just tear out the one page and you're done.

Johnny is right in this particular scenario.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Dakka: “I want support and rules supplements in White Dwarf.”
Also Dakka: “GAWD now I have to carry more stuff.”

Which wouldn't be a problem if they were digital, and I suspect you knew that before you posted.

I mean this isn't an entire book you gotta carry around. Just tear out the one page and you're done.

Johnny is right in this particular scenario.

Heretic! Photocopier, maybe, but to rip pages out of something is insanity!

 Crimson wrote:
The move away from digital is probably due the piratism. People were uploading the full digital copies minutes after the release.

Having rule content is good. But of course as with every release, we have the usual: why it was <this thing> and not <my thing>? Waah! But assuming that these rule articles are a permanent feature, I'd expect to see additional rule content to many different factions. I hope they make some compendium of this stuff in the end of the year though; if there is not terribly much of it, they could put it in the CA.

Instead of fighting the losing battle against the dreaded pirate they could do what almost every other miniature company is doing... producing rules for free. It's been proven that players buy content that has longer lasting value (IE campaign books) but throwing tons of random rules into the game is what ruined 7th ed.

It's fairly dumb they are returning to the failures of 7th while not realizing that people would buy MORE models if the rules were better written and cheaper.

 Trickstick wrote:
Heretic! Photocopier, maybe, but to rip pages out of something is insanity!

Heretic am I! I trimmed my WD collection from the '99-'04 to less than a tenth of it size by ripping apart each issue and keeping only the articles of interest (I have a nice Index Astartes booklet for my trouble).

I'll get the White Dwarf, unbind it, parse out the different rule pages, put the Kill Team rules in my Kill Team binder and the 40k rules in my 40k binder and the AoS rules in my AoS binder, and I'll just keep doing that so that I only have one thing to bring with me when I need it: the appropriate binder for the game I want to play.

It takes almost no effort. Scissors and a hole puncher.

drbored wrote:
I'll get the White Dwarf, unbind it, parse out the different rule pages, put the Kill Team rules in my Kill Team binder and the 40k rules in my 40k binder and the AoS rules in my AoS binder, and I'll just keep doing that so that I only have one thing to bring with me when I need it: the appropriate binder for the game I want to play.

It takes almost no effort. Scissors and a hole puncher.

Scissors...and a ...hole puncher (no glue stick?). That fact that you think that is normal in 2018 is comical :p GW seriously needs to promote a better option!

 Kirasu wrote:

drbored wrote:
I'll get the White Dwarf, unbind it, parse out the different rule pages, put the Kill Team rules in my Kill Team binder and the 40k rules in my 40k binder and the AoS rules in my AoS binder, and I'll just keep doing that so that I only have one thing to bring with me when I need it: the appropriate binder for the game I want to play.

It takes almost no effort. Scissors and a hole puncher.

Scissors...and a ...hole puncher (no glue stick?). That fact that you think that is normal in 2018 is comical :p GW seriously needs to promote a better option!

Yes, when will GW at last release their offical Holes Punching Tool™ shaped like a power fist so that we no longer need to rely on 3rd party tool ?

Samko wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:

drbored wrote:
I'll get the White Dwarf, unbind it, parse out the different rule pages, put the Kill Team rules in my Kill Team binder and the 40k rules in my 40k binder and the AoS rules in my AoS binder, and I'll just keep doing that so that I only have one thing to bring with me when I need it: the appropriate binder for the game I want to play.

It takes almost no effort. Scissors and a hole puncher.

Scissors...and a ...hole puncher (no glue stick?). That fact that you think that is normal in 2018 is comical :p GW seriously needs to promote a better option!

Yes, when will GW at last release their offical Holes Punching Tool™ shaped like a power fist so that we no longer need to rely on 3rd party tool ?

$49.99 (175$ AUS)

 Kirasu wrote:

Samko wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:

drbored wrote:
I'll get the White Dwarf, unbind it, parse out the different rule pages, put the Kill Team rules in my Kill Team binder and the 40k rules in my 40k binder and the AoS rules in my AoS binder, and I'll just keep doing that so that I only have one thing to bring with me when I need it: the appropriate binder for the game I want to play.

It takes almost no effort. Scissors and a hole puncher.

Scissors...and a ...hole puncher (no glue stick?). That fact that you think that is normal in 2018 is comical :p GW seriously needs to promote a better option!

Yes, when will GW at last release their offical Holes Punching Tool™ shaped like a power fist so that we no longer need to rely on 3rd party tool ?

$49.99 (175$ AUS)

I'd buy that.