Switch Theme:

A song of ice and fire - anyone playing?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight





Central Cimmeria

I've only played three games, but I find this an excellent game that rewards good play and forces interesting choices. The side board is brilliant.
Night's Watch I find to be a bit over powered, but otherwise the game is also nicely balanced between factions that play very differently.
   
Made in ie
Dakka Veteran




Ireland

Just had another game with the Freefolk, and they are utterly crap.

Seriously they are a joke. Their tactic cards have far too little pay of for a large investment to achieve, compared to other faction cards they are out of sync.
The main heavy hitter in the faction can be easily countrered by simple not attacking it, as it will do 2-4 wounds when it attacks... which can be easily healed by either a Tactic Card or a place on the political track... also it costs 7pts, 7pts for 2-4 wounds is simply laughable. On the flip side the same model can be removed far too easily without getting to do anything. The Savage Giant, incase anyone was wondering which model I was on about. I see wat CMON aimed for with the rules for this monster. However it simply doesn't work, in all my 30 years of gaming I have never encountered a unit that can be countered by simply not attacking it.

For the record I play mainly against Stark, and Nightswatch, so the panic shenanigans that are all to common with the Freefolk do very little. Both factions can hit a lot harder than the Freefolk can, and can tank against me very easily. Oh, and they can take Neutrals, which again not having access to limits the Freefolk, sure it makes sense thematically, however give the Freefolk something to make up for this handicap.

In all honesty, I started with Freefolk, but I may just quit this game, which is a shame as the core mechanics are fantastic. However the gaming experience is ruined by the Tactic Cards. They are nowhere near balanced, just go look at the Freefolk ones and the Nightswatch ones. I once had a game where it was advantagous to attack Ghost with a unit of trappers, I caused 1 wound due to his power armour save. The Nightswatch player had a card that then allowed a nearby unit to heal 3 wounds because I attacked his unit. Which meant a Tracker returned to a nearby unit. So my attack rewarded my opponet more than it did anything for me. This has so far been my experiance with the Tactic Cards.

I wish I wasn't so negetive about the game/Freefolk, as the core system is very nice, but starting with the Freefolk has put me off, I think I've managed to win 1 game, most games I lose by 8-10 victory points. Sure winning and losing aren't the aim of a game, but after a while getting kicked that badly on a regular basis makes the game not fun.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/12/30 00:12:10


The objective of the game is to win. The point of the game is to have fun. The two should never be confused. 
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight





Central Cimmeria

 stonehorse wrote:
Just had another game with the Freefolk, and they are utterly crap.

Seriously they are a joke. Their tactic cards have far too little pay of for a large investment to achieve, compared to other faction cards they are out of sync.
The main heavy hitter in the faction can be easily countrered by simple not attacking it, as it will do 2-4 wounds when it attacks... which can be easily healed by either a Tactic Card or a place on the political track... also it costs 7pts, 7pts for 2-4 wounds is simply laughable. On the flip side the same model can be removed far too easily without getting to do anything. The Savage Giant, incase anyone was wondering which model I was on about. I see wat CMON aimed for with the rules for this monster. However it simply doesn't work, in all my 30 years of gaming I have never encountered a unit that can be countered by simply not attacking it.

For the record I play mainly against Stark, and Nightswatch, so the panic shenanigans that are all to common with the Freefolk do very little. Both factions can hit a lot harder than the Freefolk can, and can tank against me very easily. Oh, and they can take Neutrals, which again not having access to limits the Freefolk, sure it makes sense thematically, however give the Freefolk something to make up for this handicap.

In all honesty, I started with Freefolk, but I may just quit this game, which is a shame as the core mechanics are fantastic. However the gaming experience is ruined by the Tactic Cards. They are nowhere near balanced, just go look at the Freefolk ones and the Nightswatch ones. I once had a game where it was advantagous to attack Ghost with a unit of trappers, I caused 1 wound due to his power armour save. The Nightswatch player had a card that then allowed a nearby unit to heal 3 wounds because I attacked his unit. Which meant a Tracker returned to a nearby unit. So my attack rewarded my opponet more than it did anything for me. This has so far been my experiance with the Tactic Cards.

I wish I wasn't so negetive about the game/Freefolk, as the core system is very nice, but starting with the Freefolk has put me off, I think I've managed to win 1 game, most games I lose by 8-10 victory points. Sure winning and losing aren't the aim of a game, but after a while getting kicked that badly on a regular basis makes the game not fun.

We spoke over on the CMON forums, but for the benefit of others reading this, you really do need heroes box 1 and another pair of raider units to make FreeFolk work. I definitely agree they take a lot of effort to play and are not a very forgiving army to play. They seem clearly less powerful than the Night's Watch for example, but I think you would have a much better experience with heroes box 1 and another pair of raider units in your list.

Also, as I mentioned, you should definitely be taking Styr as a NCU and giving fury of the Thenns to your giants. They smash face with that combo.
   
Made in ie
Dakka Veteran




Ireland

Bought a lot more, now have at least one of everything, and played a lot more games. Think I am at the point where I have to admit the following.

This isn't a fun game.

Little bit of background before I delve into the review, I’ve been playing table top miniature games since the mid 80’s, worked briefly for GW, designed a few games, and have won several Wargaming tournaments. So this isn’t my first rodeo when it comes to miniature gaming.

You can tell from the opening that this isn't going to be a glowing review, which is sad as the game comes close to being a great game. However the game's designers didn't know when to stop. What makes this game not fun is the sheer glut of special rules, and how the game encourages players to be jerks. I'll talk about these points more in depth, but if you want the TL/DR of why the game is not fun to play... this is it right there.

Glut of special rules.
Less is more, more creates an ugly mess of interactions. The core mechanics of the game are elegant, alternative activations, simple combat resolution, choice of actions, etc. A small smattering of unit abilities is fine, and helps to add flavour to units to make them feel different. However some of these abilities are simply too much, and due to the game having a wide host of ways to add to abilities, it can and does create a situation where abilities quickly become broken and rob players of their agency. On top of unit abilities the game has unique tactics cards for each faction and general, again in isolation these are fine, but how they interact with other special rules floating around can be quite unstable. The game has a nice idea of adding a political intrigue element, however as the units which use this seldom use just the various parts, but rather add their own unique special abilities on top of those already available. To top off the overwhelming nature of having too many special rules and abilities to factor in, the game adds a random selection of special rules for each objective. There is simply too much to try to keep track of, factor in, and again too many interactions makes the game groan under its own weight.

Forcing players to be a Jerk.
The aforementioned tactics cards boil down the gaming experience into a game where a player's enjoyment comes at the expense of their opponent not having a good time. Essentially they are a collection of 'gotchas' and 'counters'. It isn’t so much as putting an opponent in a position where their options are limited due to clever movement of units, but simply having a card in hand that is unforeseeable, and punishes the opponent for making what is usually the right choice at the time. In all the games I have played I have lost because my opponent had better access to special abilities that shut down my turn, robbed me of my choice, or countered my choice. None of this came from my opponent being a better player, but sheer dumb luck of choosing a faction with good tactic cards (like any card game... not all cards are designed equally), and having a good tactic card in hand. It cheapens the game experience.

In all my decades of gaming I have never encountered a game that offers so poor an experience. The worst games I have ever had, have been from this system. It is frustrating as the game does have a fantastic engine, but sadly like the car that Homer Simpson designed... the game too was a mess of clutter which ultimately made the game a piece of trash. I really wish I could have fun with this game, but constantly encountering situations where opponents have abilities to deny me my activation and instead choose which unit I have to activate is simply not fun. For the life of me I am struggling to see why this game has such a strong appeal. Last game I played it was 13-0 victory points to Lannisters. I managed to kill 6 models the entire game, due to having all my choices and actions cancelled or dictated for me, my agency was taken from me.

Even if there were ways to mitigate the sheer Jerk behaviour this game encourages, it simply isn't worth it. Forcing players to adopt a Jerk like behaviour in order to combat Jerk behaviour just makes both players into Jerks, and erodes the social contract that gaming is founded on.

The models are nice... if expensive for what they are. They don’t offer much in the way of creativity as they are pre-built, so no to little chance to position them as you want.

If someone was new to the hobby and wanted a fun Miniature game, I'd point them in the direction of Kings of War, Warlords of Erehwon, or Dragon Rampant. Those are systems that encourage players to have a mutually fun gaming experience. Also I strongly suspect that they will stand the test of time... which A Song of Ice and Fire won't.

The objective of the game is to win. The point of the game is to have fun. The two should never be confused. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Central Valley, California

 stonehorse wrote:
Bought a lot more, now have at least one of everything, and played a lot more games. Think I am at the point where I have to admit the following.

This isn't a fun game.

Little bit of background before I delve into the review, I’ve been playing table top miniature games since the mid 80’s, worked briefly for GW, designed a few games, and have won several Wargaming tournaments. So this isn’t my first rodeo when it comes to miniature gaming.

You can tell from the opening that this isn't going to be a glowing review, which is sad as the game comes close to being a great game. However the game's designers didn't know when to stop. What makes this game not fun is the sheer glut of special rules, and how the game encourages players to be jerks. I'll talk about these points more in depth, but if you want the TL/DR of why the game is not fun to play... this is it right there.

Glut of special rules.
Less is more, more creates an ugly mess of interactions. The core mechanics of the game are elegant, alternative activations, simple combat resolution, choice of actions, etc. A small smattering of unit abilities is fine, and helps to add flavour to units to make them feel different. However some of these abilities are simply too much, and due to the game having a wide host of ways to add to abilities, it can and does create a situation where abilities quickly become broken and rob players of their agency. On top of unit abilities the game has unique tactics cards for each faction and general, again in isolation these are fine, but how they interact with other special rules floating around can be quite unstable. The game has a nice idea of adding a political intrigue element, however as the units which use this seldom use just the various parts, but rather add their own unique special abilities on top of those already available. To top off the overwhelming nature of having too many special rules and abilities to factor in, the game adds a random selection of special rules for each objective. There is simply too much to try to keep track of, factor in, and again too many interactions makes the game groan under its own weight.

Forcing players to be a Jerk.
The aforementioned tactics cards boil down the gaming experience into a game where a player's enjoyment comes at the expense of their opponent not having a good time. Essentially they are a collection of 'gotchas' and 'counters'. It isn’t so much as putting an opponent in a position where their options are limited due to clever movement of units, but simply having a card in hand that is unforeseeable, and punishes the opponent for making what is usually the right choice at the time. In all the games I have played I have lost because my opponent had better access to special abilities that shut down my turn, robbed me of my choice, or countered my choice. None of this came from my opponent being a better player, but sheer dumb luck of choosing a faction with good tactic cards (like any card game... not all cards are designed equally), and having a good tactic card in hand. It cheapens the game experience.

In all my decades of gaming I have never encountered a game that offers so poor an experience. The worst games I have ever had, have been from this system. It is frustrating as the game does have a fantastic engine, but sadly like the car that Homer Simpson designed... the game too was a mess of clutter which ultimately made the game a piece of trash. I really wish I could have fun with this game, but constantly encountering situations where opponents have abilities to deny me my activation and instead choose which unit I have to activate is simply not fun. For the life of me I am struggling to see why this game has such a strong appeal. Last game I played it was 13-0 victory points to Lannisters. I managed to kill 6 models the entire game, due to having all my choices and actions cancelled or dictated for me, my agency was taken from me.

Even if there were ways to mitigate the sheer Jerk behaviour this game encourages, it simply isn't worth it. Forcing players to adopt a Jerk like behaviour in order to combat Jerk behaviour just makes both players into Jerks, and erodes the social contract that gaming is founded on.

The models are nice... if expensive for what they are. They don’t offer much in the way of creativity as they are pre-built, so no to little chance to position them as you want.

If someone was new to the hobby and wanted a fun Miniature game, I'd point them in the direction of Kings of War, Warlords of Erehwon, or Dragon Rampant. Those are systems that encourage players to have a mutually fun gaming experience. Also I strongly suspect that they will stand the test of time... which A Song of Ice and Fire won't.


I've been pondering all of the above. Just recently I stated to someone that I prefer a game like Kings of War, where all rules are available theoretically ahead of time, not trickled out over months. It seems Ice & Fire is getting increasingly convoluted.

~ Shrap

Rolling 1's for five decades.
AoS * Warcry * Dust 1947 * Warmaster 10mm * Firefight * Konflikt '47 * Reign in Hell * Song of Ice & Fire * Horus Heresy 30K * Warmachine MK IV
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Scotland

I disagree with a lot of what has been said. I'm a huge ASOIAF fan and I have multiples of each release. I play the game casually, and have no tournament experience or design experience. It is currently one of my favourite games to play perhaps the favourite. I'd like to address some points raised.

The Free Folk complaint is not without merit. They were one of the weaker factions when the complaint was posted and shortly recieved a massive update. Now they are a very strong faction. Many underperforming units were tweaked and the morale system in the game was changed to stop lovely units of Raiders with rags for armour and the morale of yellow custard being swept off the board. They will still crumble but can at least absorb all but the most dedicated charges.

Part of the Free Folk design is terrible units, overpowered Commanders, NCUs and attachments. No other faction has such a plethora of ability granting heroes that would be frankly overpowered with access in other factions. There are good, semi- elite units of course. However the faction revolves around the dichotomy of chaff, chaining activations and powerful Commander abiltiies. Out of the starter set they're probably a poor gaming experience compared to nearly all other factions so I can sympathise if this is what you felt.

Of he two factions you mention fighting against the first, Nights Watch also recieved balancing toning them down. They are still an elite faction that revolves around healing and sustaining their troops, with an emphasis now on shooting, siege weaponry and durability. It can be frustrating to play against, just as being mobbed to death by Free Folk can. Free Folk vs Nights Watch becomes the classic match of the stalwart versus the horde. In addition the changes to morale similarly hurt elite factions as they are more likely to have 1 or 2 guys run away per engagement, which can lead to weaker enemies chipping them to death.

Lannisters are the control faction. They are going to shut you down. They politic and scheme and stop you playing cards or find ways to use their wealth to make your units weak to panic tests or to make units durable. So yes, it can be an 'anti-fun' play style but they can only stop so much of what the Free Folk can do because you have so much more than them, and every loss is keenly felt. And whilst the Lannisters certainly have offensive units and Commanders they are not aggressive combat monsters.

With all factions the trick is to identify what political zones they need, control them, try and claim your own and maximise your faction/Commander playstyle. With Free Folk units being so cheap they can easily dominate the political board and invest more points in that aspect whilst still swarming their opponent with quantity.

You mention the Savage Giant as bad design. Again this was before the update. The Savage Giant rolls a single dice on attack. On a 2+ he deals straight wounds without a save. It's a giant! He starts off dealing a D3 + 2 wounds, and deals an additional one wound for each wound lost. So minimum is 3 wounds plus anything suffered from panic tests. Yes particularly brave units can stymie him a little however damage like that can straight delete a rank of infantry at a time weakening your unit. You certainly can choose to ignore attacking him and he doesn't get stronger. Free Folk now have more tricks to make him stronger and his ability to just cause casualties cannot be ignored. There are 2 sources to turn off that massive damage I can think of in the game. I don't see this as bad design. You cite your experience at GW. GW has had death star units. Giant balled up units that typically had high durability and damage output and low movement. You shot the other troops away and focussed on them or objectives. I'm not sure if this is bad design either, or simply a playstyle? I think this complaint is quite overblown.

I will move on to the 'gotcha' issue. To a small extent this is true. This is ASOIAF! It's politicking and outmanuevering and sudden brutal surprises. The command cards mimic the books. However there's also a free app called War Council. The argument about electronic methods of updating rules and stats is one for another day, however CMON produce an official app that has the latest rules and every released model plus the most up to date unit stats. A handy thing also is you can see all the cards a Commander has in his deck. Every faction has 7 staple cards that go in the deck. A commander adds a further 3. There are two copies of each card. Yeah, I might never know what cards my opponent has in his hand, but I can easily work out what me might have. For example the Lannisters have a card called Counterplot which can stop one of your cards working. If they play it twice, barring Tyrion being able to bring a card back as commander then that's it. I can't get hit with that affect more than twice. Perhaps this requires too much mental tracking than you wish and I understand. For myself Lion Rampant just feels too bare bones. The game doesn't encourage you to be some sort of jerk no more than strategems in 40k make you a jerk. They're extra abiltiies you have access to. Not every one is a counter. Some are played when you attack or when you are attacked, if your charge, if you pass morale, if you engage with the politics board. Some heal, make you hit harder, defend more, allow you to retreat more easily... They're only gotchas in the sense your hand is hidden. Your hand is hidden and nothing else is. Information otherwise is freely available. Strategems are freely available in 40k and your opponent tells you when he uses one and you can respond in kind, but he's under no obligation to telegraph his turns or ideas so obviously. I don't see the difference here. I would go far as to say if you and your opponent feel like you're being jerks then that's on you. Nothing in this game forces unsportsmanlike behaviour.

Units can have unique and special rules but they're all self contained on their card and nothing is hidden. If I need to know what Tully Sworn Shields can do when charged by Bolton Bastard Girls and vice versa it's all on the card. Like all wargames there can be poor wording but I don't see this mass of convoluted complexity.

There could be a criticism levelled that older factions with more releases are more developed and have more options than newer factions. Certainly Hero Boxes add so much value they're mandatory purchases. This can be a negative if you play Baratheons which currently only have a starter set and little else compared to the Stark line up with a wide variety of heroes and units. This is a wargame and this is how things are released unfortunately. Ignoring agnostic model or setting rules it's hard when any faction has just been released and has a more constricting playstyle. The distribution of the game is shoddy however and that is something new players should consider.

The game does get more convoluted the more is added. Welcome to obvious statements. The same is true of new Mantic factions, 40k supplements, Erehwon warbands... you name it, adding more means more to know. That's life. The level of complexity of ASOIAF may not be for some as the simplicity of other games might not be for others. Some of us prefer Pepsi to Coke and all that.

I think you've had a few bad matchups at a time the game was undergoing some revamps and that sucks. And it might not bw your cup or tea. But I think there's a lot of hyperbolic complaining and factual errors which undermine your critique.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I agree with Zond 1000%. ASoIaF has many valid reasons to be criticized, namely its ABYSMAL distribution and availability, but the game is an excellent exercise in tactics, positioning, constant meaningful decisions, etc. One of the best purely competitive systems out there right now IMO.

11527pts Total (7400pts painted)

4980pts Total (4980pts painted)

3730 Total (210pts painted) 
   
Made in ie
Dakka Veteran




Ireland

@Zond.

Quite a lot to reply to there.

I strongly disagree that the Freefolk have overpowered Commanders, NCUs and attachments. Take Mance and add him to a unit of Cave Dweller Savages... He makes the unit worse, ok not by much. Having looked at what the game has to offer I honestly don't see what it is about the Freefolk Commanders, NCUs, and attachments overpowered, care to elaborate what makes them such.

Free Folk most certinly are a 'fill the board with chaff' style army. The games I have won have been by sitting Raiders on objectives with a unit of Raiders parked in front of them, none of the Raiders engage with the enemy, that is what Cave Dweller Savages, Followers of Bone are for. It is boring, but it does win.

I play mainly against Nightswatch, Lannisters, and Stark. Of those 3 Lannisters have done the most damage in a game. Knights of Casterly Rock with the Mounted Mountain unit Attachment and Tyrions card that allows a unit to be activated again. That thing hits hard, is fast, and has great mobility. in one round it killed a Giant, a unit of Raiders with Raid Leader & Skinchanger, and the bonded Bear. Next round I went to charge with a Giant, Lannister player played the 'you can't activate your unit, the Lannister player chooses', so was robbed the ability to deal with the threat. The unit then went onto kill two more giants in the same round... the Lannister player had the activate a unit again card. so at this point Round 3, I had lost 3 Giants, a unit of Raiders, a Raid Leader, a Skinwalker, and a Bonded Bear. 26pts of my 50pts force. I had yet to cause a single wound to the Lannister force. Not sure where you get the idea that the Lannisters don't have combat monsters.

Giants are still hot garbage, even after the changes. They are just too easy to neutralise. Cancelling their ability hurts them more than any other unit in the game, or just don't attack them. D3+2 damage isn't that hard to recover from. Turning it off leaves the Giant with 1 attack that hits on 2+... not very scary. The only good thing a Giant can do is hold/contest objectives, however for their points that buys two units of Raiders and a Raid Leader, which is better as they can be in two areas, and don't give up a victory point when killed.

In all my years of gaming (30+ years), the most unenjoyable experiences have been with this game. Once before the 1.5.1 update, and once afterwards. Each time it has boiled down to the Tactics cards, they for me ruin the game. I understand that they are used to add flavour to the game, but taking a great meal and adding lots of salt ruins the meal, it is the same with this.

Yes, the War Council is a free app that has all the game rules, I have it on both my phone and tablet. However, I fail to see how that undoes the 'anti-fun' cards. Knowing that certain cards exisit doesn't make it any better. I could devote hours to learning all the tactic cards, however I don't think a game should put players in a position where a player has to learn the text of sevral decks of cards in order to have fun. Learning what a unit does and how they play is easy, as players will have a point of references to use... Orcs are tough brutes, Elves are fast skilled troops, Dwarfs are stubbon tough grumpy buggers, etc.

It isn't about forcing players to be bad sportsmen, but rather the tactics cards (and some abilities), create a game that isn't fun for the player on the receiving end, thus it feels like a jerk move. Not that the player is being a jerk. For example the Lannister Tactic Card that allowd the Lannister player to choose which unit the opponent has to activate on their turn, is something that shouldn't exsist in an alternative activation game, it is a force multiplier, also as you pointed out Tyrion can retrieve cards that have been played, so can do this 4 times in a game. That isn't fun, and cheapens the Lannister players victory. Winning because you denied your opponent the ability to play is well... a very cheap victory and gaming experience. Persoanlly I'd rather win a game due to better play and not the ability of some random card that essentially plays itself giving me the victory.

My complaint about complexity in the game is about how the game has needless rules that add very little to the game, other than to add rules. Each objective having a unique random special rule? That is adding more for the sake of adding more in the hope that it will make the game appear to have more depth... it simply isn't true. Some of the most complex games have the most simplist of rules. Go, Diplomacy, etc. Allowing complexity to emerge organically through player interaction is far better than front loading a system. Also the more layers or moving parts that are added to a system allow for unforeseen issues with interaction to creep in. Keeping a system simple mechanically is a way to safe guard against this. Adding more for the sake of adding more is a recipe for issues to arise.

You mentioned the Strategems of 40k... yeah, those are also a horrid thing, and a big part of why I gave up on that game.

Dragon Rampant, maybe bare bones, but that is the strength of the system. The game is more about what a player does on the table, and not about tailoring a list to get the most out some combo-wombo. In that system a player can build a force based on what models they like, and with a good grasp of tactics can achieve victory while having a fun game. The activation system always makes the game tense and adds in a good levelof uncertinty.

Again, if the game removed the Tactics Cards, it would vastly improve the system. With them, and it is margainly better than 40k, which is a very back handed compliment.

Luckily I should get a good deal for my stuff on eBay due to how hard it is to get.

Sorry, but this game is one of the worst I have played in all my life. if you think that is hyperbolic, fair enough.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/03/23 23:51:51


The objective of the game is to win. The point of the game is to have fun. The two should never be confused. 
   
Made in gb
Battlefield Tourist





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

For a newcomer to this, is it possible to get the game essentials/rulebook without having to get the starter set (or should that be a recommended starting point in all cases?)

On the comments above, Wow.. it's incredible how subjective some things can be. But, I guess that is why it's a good thing there are so many different games on the market - it's possible for anyone to find the kind of game that they like.
Also the joys of the 'bay which means it should be pretty easy to trade away the things you want to get rid of!

It does sound like this game has a lot of tactical complexity, meaning you can get beaten down quite easily if you haven't been prepared to spend the time learning those strategies. I came across that a lot with Infinity, where I thought I was a reasonable player (small group, playing every other week or so) but then tried to play in some tournaments and got torn a new one (there is no kinder way of putting it!) against the guys on the tournament scene - absolutely brutal. I'm surprised actually that some of the losses didn't result in my actual death. I didn't do the tournaments often, but it was there if you wanted it, and fortunately there was enough fun and depth to the game that just play in the casual setting with friends was enough. I'm hoping ASOIAF is similar to this, because I love the look of the miniatures and am a big fan of the books and TV show.

Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
Small but perfectly formed! A Great Crusade Epic 6mm project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/694411.page
 
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain





SoCal

I’m a huge fan of the minis, so I hope the game is successful for a while. Not that I play it or ever will.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I’m a huge fan of the minis, so I hope the game is successful for a while. Not that I play it or ever will.


You should! Between the wife and I, we own 2-3 of every release for every faction. It is one of the most rewarding and skill-based games we have ever played, yet doesn't have the obnoxious learning curve where you're expected to lose fifty games before winning one. Its quickly climbing my favorites of all time, list.

11527pts Total (7400pts painted)

4980pts Total (4980pts painted)

3730 Total (210pts painted) 
   
Made in gb
Battlefield Tourist





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

You are not the only person I have heard say that NewTruthNeomaxim.

I am now massively torn between this and AoS as my next 'big' project. Have started reading the background for AoS and it's just not grabbing me. It might just be a personal thing, of preferring 'low fantasy' to the utterly bonkers (although I must admit, very imaginative) world of AoS. I don't feel I can connect to the latter without the help of psychedelic substances. And for me that connection is a big motivator for the many hundreds of hours I will spend building and painting.

A friend is collecting for AoS which is what initially pushed me in that direction, but reading about how good ASOIAF is in terms of design is not helping!

Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
Small but perfectly formed! A Great Crusade Epic 6mm project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/694411.page
 
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan





SoCal

You'll be playing full games sooner with ASOIAF than than with Age of Sigmar. With Ice and Fire, your figures are pre-built, and you need less units on the table to have a satisfying and interesting game. Meanwhile Age of Sigmar is mainly mass battle, you assemble everything yourself, and there's the stupid double turn mechanic. Ice and Fire has alternating activations, an interesting off-table strategy/scheming system with non-combat characters there.

   
Made in us
Clousseau




If i had to choose between ASOIAF and AOS, AOS would remain smouldering in my dumpster lol.

ASOIAF is not my favorite game, but it beats AOS hands down.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






 auticus wrote:
If i had to choose between ASOIAF and AOS, AOS would remain smouldering in my dumpster lol.

ASOIAF is not my favorite game, but it beats AOS hands down.


And yet you still feel compelled to post in the board at every opportunity.
   
Made in us
Clousseau




Yep sure do. I have about 10 grand sunk into my gw fantasy collection so I'll likely continue to post in AOS boards until I die or until they release a game that I can use that investment in.

Cheers.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/15 01:08:37


 
   
Made in pl
Dakka Veteran




 auticus wrote:
Yep sure do. I have about 10 grand sunk into my gw fantasy collection so I'll likely continue to post in AOS boards until I die or until they release a game that I can use that investment in.

Cheers.


Isn't the 9th Age popular where you live? Here it seems to be played everywhere, while AoS is apparently relegated to home groups. I have seen AoS played in public (club or store) maybe once in the last couple of years. I guess it is considered a shameful activity better performed at home
   
Made in gb
Battlefield Tourist





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

Thanks for the comments Vetrucio and Auticus.

9th age is another game I have considered. I used to love WHFB and also I admire the community spirit behind it, it really is quite heartening and shows that hobbyists can go their own way and not just be spoon-fed whatever the companies want you to play.

The more I read and see about ASOIAF the more I like the look of it.

Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
Small but perfectly formed! A Great Crusade Epic 6mm project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/694411.page
 
   
Made in us
Clousseau




Cyel wrote:
 auticus wrote:
Yep sure do. I have about 10 grand sunk into my gw fantasy collection so I'll likely continue to post in AOS boards until I die or until they release a game that I can use that investment in.

Cheers.


Isn't the 9th Age popular where you live? Here it seems to be played everywhere, while AoS is apparently relegated to home groups. I have seen AoS played in public (club or store) maybe once in the last couple of years. I guess it is considered a shameful activity better performed at home


Nope nobody plays 9th age where I am. The only real fantasy game is AOS because I live in an area that is dominated by GW. Getting other games going is hard. I have championed Conquest and we have a good size group a year later but the corona virus has really crushed that effort.

AOS however is everywhere here. Once they brought in official points that is. It was not seen anywhere except for my campaign group for about its first year until the first GHB dropped.
   
Made in se
Fresh-Faced New User




Just want to him in and say that I don't play the game yet, but hope to get something up and going by this summer at the latest.

I've been checking over the rules and am looking to get into action.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




NoVA

Gurkhal wrote:
Just want to him in and say that I don't play the game yet, but hope to get something up and going by this summer at the latest.

I've been checking over the rules and am looking to get into action.


It's a great game, and in my experience... a pretty easy sale to anyone who played WHFB.

If they are a fan of the books/show... and a wargamer... they really should be playing already.

Playing: Droids (Legion), Starks (ASOIAF), BB2
Working on: Starks (ASOIAF), Twilight Kin (KoW). Droids (Legion)
 
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





Gurkhal wrote:
Just want to him in and say that I don't play the game yet, but hope to get something up and going by this summer at the latest.

I've been checking over the rules and am looking to get into action.

There's a very active Discord community for it via Tabletop Simulator and the guys who made the mod have tried their best to mitigate a lot of the usual clunkiness of using TTS for wargames. It might be worth a look in the mean time.
   
Made in se
Fresh-Faced New User




 Arbitrator wrote:
Gurkhal wrote:
Just want to him in and say that I don't play the game yet, but hope to get something up and going by this summer at the latest.

I've been checking over the rules and am looking to get into action.

There's a very active Discord community for it via Tabletop Simulator and the guys who made the mod have tried their best to mitigate a lot of the usual clunkiness of using TTS for wargames. It might be worth a look in the mean time.


Thanks! I'll check it out.

EDITED

 Red Viper wrote:
Gurkhal wrote:
Just want to him in and say that I don't play the game yet, but hope to get something up and going by this summer at the latest.

I've been checking over the rules and am looking to get into action.


It's a great game, and in my experience... a pretty easy sale to anyone who played WHFB.

If they are a fan of the books/show... and a wargamer... they really should be playing already.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/31 09:29:24


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Played a game yesterday with my quarantine pod. Had a lot of fun with it.
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight





Central Cimmeria

Oh my word, I wish I'd seen this sooner.

If you are on the fence about this you should absolutely give the game a go.

Been playing rank n flank wargames for 15+ years and ASOIAF is the best I've played hands down. Only thing that comes even moderately close is golden period WHFB 6th edition with some house rules.

ASOIAF is the perfect example of a game that is easy to learn but hard to master. Core mechanics are very simple and most unit special abilities are just the core abilities combined in different ways.

Army building can be endlessly entertaining with attachments allowing you to power up units or give them more specialized roles while commanders can give the same faction a completely different play style allowing you to get lots of play styles out of the same army. For example, play Lannisters but are tired of playing control and panic style lists? Take the Mountain as your commander, throw in the hound and a couple units of the Mountain's Men and you've got a very aggressive face punching Lannister list. Tired of playing horde style FreeFolk? Take Rattleshirt as your commander along with a couple units of followers of bone and watch your guys get more and more deadly (elite) as you start to rack up kills.

However, while list building is fun and there are some elements of synergy that reward list building it isn't too combo whombo like I hear Warmachine/Hordes or WHFB 8th was. You can show up and still have fun (and win) with very basic and obvious list builds.

Then, on top of your standard rank and flank game, you have a nice little worker placement (tactics board) and card game ( tactics cards) in addition. These reward you by giving you mostly small benefits when you setup certain conditions on the battlefield through clever positioning and activation order.

The best players are able to combine several small bonuses from tactics cards and the tactics board to add up to great on the field effect.

Lastly, the miniatures have much to recommend them. They are preassembled, and mostly in only one or two pieces. This allows for very realistic draping of beards, hair, and clothing (capes/cloaks/etc.) along with dynamic poses (The Night's Watch sworn brothers have the best two handed sword poses I've ever seen on a miniature). Once I realized how nice natural looking hair and clothing can be, I have a hard time going back to the weird hover beards/hair/cloaks/ scabbards, etc. that are common on multipart miniatures. It just makes them look like toys to me. While mono pose with some repeat sculpts might seem like a downside, all modern GW kits are really monopose as well, frequently with only five unique poses compared to the 4-5 you'd typically see in a ASOIAF unit. Multipart miniatures you have to build are a downside when there aren't really any choices about how you build them. Also, the ASOIAF minis are easy to convert for more variety, and I've enjoyed doing so for a big chunk of mine.

I could go on, but this is already a wall of text.

For what it is worth regarding the poster up thread who didn't enjoy the game, the website ASOIAF stats has compiled very advanced faction and player power rankings from tournament results (similar to chess ELO score) and FreeFolk are currently at the absolute top of the power rankings. Maybe he or she was playing against very talented commanders or there was just something that wasn't clicking for them. I'm not casting aspersions btw. We all enjoy different things, and the game clearly wasn't working for them.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




NoVA

 Gallahad wrote:

If you are on the fence about this you should absolutely give the game a go.

Been playing rank n flank wargames for 15+ years and ASOIAF is the best I've played hands down.
ASOIAF is the perfect example of a game that is easy to learn but hard to master. Core mechanics are very simple and most unit special abilities are just the core abilities combined in different ways.

The best players are able to combine several small bonuses from tactics cards and the tactics board to add up to great on the field effect.



I agreed with your whole post, but I wanted to highlight the above.

My regular opponents can now guess what tactics cards I have based on my battlefield decisions, so now we've entered another layer of depth: bluffing. It's been a lot of fun and nails the theme of the setting.

I've been playing for 18 months now, and it's still easily my favorite wargame ever.

Playing: Droids (Legion), Starks (ASOIAF), BB2
Working on: Starks (ASOIAF), Twilight Kin (KoW). Droids (Legion)
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




NoVA

I guess I'll post news in this thread:

https://asoiaf.cmon.com/news/politics-of-salt-and-rock

More Greyjoy previews, they look great. The minis keep getting better also

Playing: Droids (Legion), Starks (ASOIAF), BB2
Working on: Starks (ASOIAF), Twilight Kin (KoW). Droids (Legion)
 
   
Made in se
Fresh-Faced New User




 Red Viper wrote:
I guess I'll post news in this thread:

https://asoiaf.cmon.com/news/politics-of-salt-and-rock

More Greyjoy previews, they look great. The minis keep getting better also


Cheers!

While no House can naturally be as awesome as the Lannisters, the Greyjoys can still look good while trying.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Battle Barge Buffet Line

What type of plastic are the minis made of? I remember the KS but didn't really follow it nor have I seen the minis used in person (admittedly in large part due to the pandemic) so just recently took my first look at the line. I was really surprised at the quality of the sculpts as frankly I was expecting lower detail more similar to previous CMON board game minis even though this is a dedicated minis game. I was also expecting sprues when I watched my first unboxing video but was surprised to see fully assembled minis. How good is the typical assembly? For those who paint minis, do you frequently need to do gap filling/fixing or are the joints pretty well done?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/06 13:36:21


We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




NoVA

 warboss wrote:
What type of plastic are the minis made of? I remember the KS but didn't really follow it nor have I seen the minis used in person (admittedly in large part due to the pandemic) so just recently took my first look at the line. I was really surprised at the quality of the sculpts as frankly I was expecting lower detail more similar to previous CMON board game minis even though this is a dedicated minis game. I was also expecting sprues when I watched my first unboxing video but was surprised to see fully assembled minis. How good is the typical assembly? For those who paint minis, do you frequently need to do gap filling/fixing or are the joints pretty well done?


I haven't had any major issues, especially with the newer minis. Some of my Stark Outriders had a "lean" to them, I think the horses ankles were slightly stressed or something. I've heard of some issues with detail being lost (most famously, in Melisandre's face), but nothing major and none of my group has.

The minis are really, really good for the price and preassembled. Duncan Rhodes has a few he's painted, worth checking them out. I think the Baratheon army looks awesome on the tabletop, and the Greyjoys look awesome. They remind of the Dark Elf Corsairs in style.

I think the Stark/Lannister starter set probably has the least detail. But my Tully Cav or Tully Sworn shields are right up there with LOTR minis

Playing: Droids (Legion), Starks (ASOIAF), BB2
Working on: Starks (ASOIAF), Twilight Kin (KoW). Droids (Legion)
 
   
 
Forum Index » Other Fantasy Miniatures Games
Go to: