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Death guard, because our army wide rule is now basically redundant and worse than what every bolter wielding unit in the game now gets. The only exception is the edge case of plasma guns on plague marines. Having an 'army wide' rule that's really only applicable on one weapon on one unit is kinda lame.

I'm hoping they tweak the deathguard rule since they just gave every MEQ essentially a better version of the rule we had (including DG.)

Pleasestop wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:

Pleasestop wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
Yeah, for the low price of 160 points you can put out 20x strength 4, ap-2 shots, assuming you don't see your marines blasted off of the table in seconds.

The low price of 100. 20x5 is 100.

Sternguard are 16 points, 10 of them costs 160, and put out 20 shots.

Please, stop.

Deathwatch vets are 20, have stormbolters and stormshields and each can do 4 shots of Str 4 Ap -2, Str 4 Ap -1, or always wound on 2s. They kill more guardsmen at 100 pts at max range then 2 squads of Guardsmen with a company commanders r(110 pts)

So, uh, why don't you stop?

They sure do!

As long as they stand still.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Danny slag wrote:
Death guard, because our army wide rule is now basically redundant and worse than what every bolter wielding unit in the game now gets. The only exception is the edge case of plasma guns on plague marines. Having an 'army wide' rule that's really only applicable on one weapon on one unit is kinda lame.

I'm hoping they tweak the deathguard rule since they just gave every MEQ essentially a better version of the rule we had (including DG.)

Not exactly. Keep in mind that you still get to rapid fire at 18", which means you can move and still get off most of your shots.

You aren't wrong that Death Guard need a redesign, as I think all CSM armies do.

Danny slag wrote:
Death guard, because our army wide rule is now basically redundant and worse than what every bolter wielding unit in the game now gets. The only exception is the edge case of plasma guns on plague marines. Having an 'army wide' rule that's really only applicable on one weapon on one unit is kinda lame.

I'm hoping they tweak the deathguard rule since they just gave every MEQ essentially a better version of the rule we had (including DG.)

You still ignore penalties on helbrutes and can fire 18 '' rapid fire with Cultists and PMs after you've moved. So I'd say we're still better off, especially since plasma is still one of the best weaopns in the arsenal (though competing with blight launcher).

Wait, do death guard not have keyword Heretic Astartes?

Darsath wrote:
I still find it weird that Guardsmen didn't go up to 5 points in CA.

This rule might be why. I'm surprised the price of everything else didn't drop because marines got this rule.

I often run 15 bolters, 15 bolt rifles, 3+ hurricane bolters and around 5+ storm bolters in my IF lists. That's around 70+ extra long-range S4 shots available to me in certain situations, most of them still proccing even if I move. it's not insignificant in my view.

Danny slag wrote:
Death guard, because our army wide rule is now basically redundant and worse than what every bolter wielding unit in the game now gets. The only exception is the edge case of plasma guns on plague marines. Having an 'army wide' rule that's really only applicable on one weapon on one unit is kinda lame.

I'm hoping they tweak the deathguard rule since they just gave every MEQ essentially a better version of the rule we had (including DG.)

Except of course non Marine Bolter users - Sisters of Silence, Custodes, Sisetrs of Battle, etc.

There are other armies in the game than just marines.

Personally I think the biggest loser in this new rule is Tyranids. Tyranids are your stereotypical "hoarde" army with Termagants, Hormogaunts and Genestealers. Thos "crappy bolters" are perfectly viable weapons against all the above - and now they can effectively double tap from twice the range.

The second biggest is Harlequins because massed light arms fire is the best way round an invulnerable save and they're already very squishy

Sumilidon wrote:
Personally I think the biggest loser in this new rule is Tyranids. Tyranids are your stereotypical "hoarde" army with Termagants, Hormogaunts and Genestealers. Thos "crappy bolters" are perfectly viable weapons against all the above - and now they can effectively double tap from twice the range.

The second biggest is Harlequins because massed light arms fire is the best way round an invulnerable save and they're already very squishy

Armies as quick as them though are gonna be in rapid fire range anyway.

The top SM list of the LVO gains quite a lot from this rule, so i wouldn't say that it is useless.

Also, if nothing else, it will finally stop all that whining about SM losing to equal points of guards. Now they win big time, intercessors even more so.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Danny slag wrote:
Death guard, because our army wide rule is now basically redundant and worse than what every bolter wielding unit in the game now gets. The only exception is the edge case of plasma guns on plague marines. Having an 'army wide' rule that's really only applicable on one weapon on one unit is kinda lame.

I'm hoping they tweak the deathguard rule since they just gave every MEQ essentially a better version of the rule we had (including DG.)

Not exactly. Keep in mind that you still get to rapid fire at 18", which means you can move and still get off most of your shots.

You aren't wrong that Death Guard need a redesign, as I think all CSM armies do.

Well, not all.

Alpha are doing pretty damn fine.
Iron warriors are awesome when you play cities of death (and cities is so much better than regular 40k. except for a select few factions that have their design screwed by it)
World eaters and renegades make decent assault forces.

But pretty much everyone else does, yea. (especially word bearers.)

I'm torn, because on one hand it's benefited by Chaos Renegades and made them vaguely more fun to play (they're a bit on the struggle side - even in casual games - and any boost to bikes and terminators is nice). On the flip side, Eldar die even faster on the tabletop. As a non-Ynnari/silly-Eldar-Soup gamer, basic Craftworlds already get cleaned off the table with relative ease, a lot more bolt gun fire doesn't help.

 BoomWolf wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Danny slag wrote:
Death guard, because our army wide rule is now basically redundant and worse than what every bolter wielding unit in the game now gets. The only exception is the edge case of plasma guns on plague marines. Having an 'army wide' rule that's really only applicable on one weapon on one unit is kinda lame.

I'm hoping they tweak the deathguard rule since they just gave every MEQ essentially a better version of the rule we had (including DG.)

Not exactly. Keep in mind that you still get to rapid fire at 18", which means you can move and still get off most of your shots.

You aren't wrong that Death Guard need a redesign, as I think all CSM armies do.

Well, not all.

Alpha are doing pretty damn fine.
Iron warriors are awesome when you play cities of death (and cities is so much better than regular 40k. except for a select few factions that have their design screwed by it)
World eaters and renegades make decent assault forces.

But pretty much everyone else does, yea. (especially word bearers.)

Nah, they all need redesign. Saying Alpha Legion are doing great is the equivalent of saying Stygies and Raven Guard and Altaioc are doing great. I'm fine with -1 to hit factions, but they shouldn't be the default measurement.
World Eaters are also complete garbage. Renegades are too niche.

Iron Warriors are passable like Alpha Legion.

The CSM armies need a redesign though.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The CSM armies need a redesign though.

Honestly, I feel like all Marine armies need a redesign. And it wouldn't even need to be that complicated.
Just give all 1W Astartes 2W, Bikes and Termies 3W and give Primaris units (which would stay a 2W) a rule that makes Damage -1 to a minimum of 1. Then adjust points accordingly (most things would be about the same, or just 2-3ppm more).
Combine with an updated Bolter Discipline rule that give +1 shot to RF bolt weapons if stationary, at half, or with the right Keyword and Marines as a whole should be in a really good place.

But that won't be happening until 9E, which may be many years away.

-

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

World Eaters are also complete garbage.

The CSM armies need a redesign though.

Disagree with the first, agree with the second. Although I suspect we'll get codices for all the cult Legions before the end of this edition, so there's possibilities.

Of course, they could end up being like the Thousand Sons possibilities, 2 good troops, couple amazing HQ and a truckload of trash.

Doubt it'll help my BA much, but if my tacticals stay on an objective and don't move, at least they'll have more damage output.