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 Formosa wrote:
I also read this "manifesto" straight off google and its clear that this disgusting persons intent is to divide people even further along political lines, something that appears to be working so far, at least in the UK reporting of the incident.

I don't think it's doing that at all. I think it's just trolling. It's chock-full of memes and he incorporated more in his stream. It doesn't represent any specific political position or purpose beyond racism and lolz. I think that's the most frightening part of it, to be honest. Whilst his racism and bigotry, and potentially some level of mental ill-health, are major components, he seems to have done this, at least in a small part, because a particular online community think it's funny.

You have absolutely hit the nail on the head there Elemental, we should not give any attention to this monster or his actions, we should focus on the victims only, I am a free speech absolutist and even i understand that certain things like calls for direct violence must be censored.

These people should be thrown in a deep dark cell for the rest of their lives.


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nfe wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
I also read this "manifesto" straight off google and its clear that this disgusting persons intent is to divide people even further along political lines, something that appears to be working so far, at least in the UK reporting of the incident.

I don't think it's doing that at all. I think it's just trolling. It's chock-full of memes and he incorporated more in his stream. It doesn't represent any specific political position or purpose beyond racism and lolz. I think that's the most frightening part of it, to be honest. Whilst his racism and bigotry, and potentially some level of mental ill-health, are major components, he seems to have done this, at least in a small part, because a particular online community think it's funny.

I have to disagree NFE, this is not "trolling" as the act of trolling is inherently harmless and done to just get a rise out of people, this is clearly political in nature, he admits in his "manifesto" to having been a communist, then a libertarian then a eco fascist, this shows me at least he has always been an extremist but his compass changed over time, he even goes on to state that politically he identifies closest with the peoples republic of china and he hates conservatives as that is "corporatism" in disguise.

He is clearly unhinged but not insane, his views are all over the place (if they are to be believed) but he is NOT insane, thats the easy cop out, this man and these people know exactly what they were doing.


Edit: looks like steve crowder

And Tim pool


Have done videos on it, gonna go watch them now.

 Formosa wrote:
You have absolutely hit the nail on the head there Elemental, we should not give any attention to this monster or his actions, we should focus on the victims only, I am a free speech absolutist and even i understand that certain things like calls for direct violence must be censored.

These people should be thrown in a deep dark cell for the rest of their lives.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nfe wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
I also read this "manifesto" straight off google and its clear that this disgusting persons intent is to divide people even further along political lines, something that appears to be working so far, at least in the UK reporting of the incident.

I don't think it's doing that at all. I think it's just trolling. It's chock-full of memes and he incorporated more in his stream. It doesn't represent any specific political position or purpose beyond racism and lolz. I think that's the most frightening part of it, to be honest. Whilst his racism and bigotry, and potentially some level of mental ill-health, are major components, he seems to have done this, at least in a small part, because a particular online community think it's funny.

I have to disagree NFE, this is not "trolling" as the act of trolling is inherently harmless and done to just get a rise out of people, this is clearly political in nature, he admits in his "manifesto" to having been a communist, then a libertarian then a eco fascist, this shows me at least he has always been an extremist but his compass changed over time, he even goes on to state that politically he identifies closest with the peoples republic of china and he hates conservatives as that is "corporatism" in disguise.

He is clearly unhinged but not insane, his views are all over the place (if they are to be believed) but he is NOT insane, thats the easy cop out, this man and these people know exactly what they were doing.

I think this is key. Vast swathes of the text are in-jokes, memes, and sarcasm. I think it is an error to take any of it at face value. He gives a potted history of his journey to this point, credits Candace Owens for inspiring him (whilst saying she's too extreme even for him), and also credits Spyro The Dragon 3.

He uses a bunch of memes, including quite long passages like the Navy Seal copypasta. The entire manifesto seems, I think, like a troll document he has created specifically because he knew the media would take it seriously and has tried to fit in as many famous memes and as much nonsense as he can to give 8chan a laugh when they see it fly over the heads of journalists.

Are people actually trying to claim this guy isn't politically motivated and this wasn't based off of his fascist ideology? (which has been calling for such 'lone wolf attacks' since the late 1960s at least). The entire thing reads like something out of The Turner Diaries.

Christ the sheer level of dishonesty from some people going on right now trying to disassociate this guy (who was festooned in far-right imagery and symbolism) is absurd and shameful.

 blood reaper wrote:
Are people actually trying to claim this guy isn't politically motivated and this wasn't based off of his fascist ideology? (which has been calling for such 'lone wolf attacks' since the late 1960s at least). The entire thing reads like something out of The Turner Diaries.

Christ the sheer level of dishonesty from some people going on right now trying to disassociate this guy (who was festooned in far-right imagery and symbolism) is absurd and shameful.

It is difficult to not feel like he's taking the piss in the manifesto, he also calls himself an eco-fascist and praises china. It seems from the outset that he's a try hard idiot who wants attention.

 Crablezworth wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:
Are people actually trying to claim this guy isn't politically motivated and this wasn't based off of his fascist ideology? (which has been calling for such 'lone wolf attacks' since the late 1960s at least). The entire thing reads like something out of The Turner Diaries.

Christ the sheer level of dishonesty from some people going on right now trying to disassociate this guy (who was festooned in far-right imagery and symbolism) is absurd and shameful.

It is difficult to not feel like he's taking the piss in the manifesto, he also calls himself an eco-fascist and praises china. It seems from the outset that he's a try hard idiot who wants attention.

If anyone has actually kept up to date with the fascist movement online they would know its culture is cloaked in internet memes like vaporewave and 'fashcore' - it's riddled in 'anti-normie' humour designed to appear absurd - a quick browse of 4/pol/ or 8/pol/ will reveal this (alongside an army of gleeful fans). Likewise, on Breitbart comment sections, people are now praising this man as a hero.

Eco-Fascism is also a fairly old concept - usually rooted in a very bad reading of history. It's odd, but it's real.

Likewise, praising China isn't too bizarre for these people - many far-right types have convinced themselves that China is really a 'National-Socialist', 'Han supremacist' state (all of which is utter garbage).

 blood reaper wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:
Are people actually trying to claim this guy isn't politically motivated and this wasn't based off of his fascist ideology? (which has been calling for such 'lone wolf attacks' since the late 1960s at least). The entire thing reads like something out of The Turner Diaries.

Christ the sheer level of dishonesty from some people going on right now trying to disassociate this guy (who was festooned in far-right imagery and symbolism) is absurd and shameful.

It is difficult to not feel like he's taking the piss in the manifesto, he also calls himself an eco-fascist and praises china. It seems from the outset that he's a try hard idiot who wants attention.

If anyone has actually kept up to date with the fascist movement online they would know its culture is cloaked in internet memes like vaporewave and 'fashcore' - it's riddled in 'anti-normie' humour designed to appear absurd - a quick browse of 4/pol/ or 8/pol/ will reveal this (alongside an army of gleeful fans). Likewise, on Breitbart comment sections, people are now praising this man as a hero.

Eco-Fascism is also a fairly old concept - usually rooted in a very bad reading of history. It's odd, but it's real.

Likewise, praising China isn't too bizarre for these people - many far-right types have convinced themselves that China is really a 'National-Socialist', 'Han supremacist' state (all of which is utter garbage).

He doesn't describe himself as far right, he consider conservativism as corporatism in disguise. I don't know what use taking what seems almost like satire at face value, but that seems part of the ploy of the 70+ page manifesto, he knows the media will run with whatever narrative they want and he left plenty of contradictory and absurd statements in there. Culture war catnip.

'He doesn't describe himself as far right'

One second,

"Were/are you “right wing”?
Depending on the definition, sure." p. 16

He does not outright describe himself as far-right but clearly does not dismiss the definition. His ideology is very much in line with Hitler's state guided market economy with notable racism. Even claims of 'anti-imperialism' are not far off the German's critique of the French and British Empires.

A number of fascists have disparaged conservatism and in turn a large number of conservatives have disparaged fascism. This does not mean he is not 'far-right'.

It seems absurd and dishonest for someone who speaks in terms of race wars, plays Waffen-SS marching songs as he executes minorities and makes the cover of his manifesto the Black Sun symbol is not some sort of fascist.

 blood reaper wrote:
'He doesn't describe himself as far right'

One second,

"Were/are you “right wing”?
Depending on the definition, sure." p. 16

A number of fascists have disparaged conservatism and in turn a large number of conservatives have disparaged fascism. This does not mean he is not 'far-right'.

It seems absurd and dishonest for someone who speaks in terms of race wars, plays Waffen-SS marching songs as he executes minorities and makes the cover of his manifesto the Black Sun symbol is not some sort of fascist.

look I dont think you are getting what he is saying, this person was not far right, he was not far left, he wanted to see the world burn and thats it, and he made this manifesto to divide people along the very lines they are now dividing themselves, the primarily left wing media are calling him alt right, the right wing media are calling him far left, and ALL of them are missing the point, as Tim pool pointed out " the machine keeps on going".

 Formosa wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:
'He doesn't describe himself as far right'

One second,

"Were/are you “right wing”?
Depending on the definition, sure." p. 16

A number of fascists have disparaged conservatism and in turn a large number of conservatives have disparaged fascism. This does not mean he is not 'far-right'.

It seems absurd and dishonest for someone who speaks in terms of race wars, plays Waffen-SS marching songs as he executes minorities and makes the cover of his manifesto the Black Sun symbol is not some sort of fascist.

look I dont think you are getting what he is saying, this person was not far right, he was not far left, he wanted to see the world burn and thats it, and he made this manifesto to divide people along the very lines they are now dividing themselves, the primarily left wing media are calling him alt right, the right wing media are calling him far left, and ALL of them are missing the point, as Tim pool pointed out " the machine keeps on going".

"He was not far right"

This is ridiculously dishonest and in complete denial of actual empirical evidence in favour of some bizarre 'no agenda but hate' excuse that's trotted out whenever someone goes and starts shooting people.

He espoused most of the basic tenants of the Nazi ideology. Shooting people is fully part of that, as is dividing people.


I'm glad the US soldiers who liberated Dachau knew what to do with this kind of person.

 Crablezworth wrote:
3 of the 4 arrested are connected and 3 were described as gunmen.


Prime ministers press conference:













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 Gordy2000 wrote:
No, we do not have the death penalty here. There has never been a terror attack here, nor any crime of this magnitude. I expect, once this has gone through investigation, prosecution and trial, those guilty will be imprisoned for life.

He apparently wrote the name of the quebec mosque shooter on his firearm. https://www.thepostmillennial.com/new-zealand-mosques-targeted-by-mass-shootings/

So does that mean more than one gunmen?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crablezworth wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:
Are people actually trying to claim this guy isn't politically motivated and this wasn't based off of his fascist ideology? (which has been calling for such 'lone wolf attacks' since the late 1960s at least). The entire thing reads like something out of The Turner Diaries.

Christ the sheer level of dishonesty from some people going on right now trying to disassociate this guy (who was festooned in far-right imagery and symbolism) is absurd and shameful.

It is difficult to not feel like he's taking the piss in the manifesto, he also calls himself an eco-fascist and praises china. It seems from the outset that he's a try hard idiot who wants attention.

ONe can be a terrorist and be confused. I would assume thats almost a baseline requirement.

 Formosa wrote:


look I dont think you are getting what he is saying, this person was not far right, he was not far left, he wanted to see the world burn and thats it, and he made this manifesto to divide people along the very lines they are now dividing themselves, the primarily left wing media are calling him alt right, the right wing media are calling him far left, and ALL of them are missing the point, as Tim pool pointed out " the machine keeps on going".

Exactly, he made sure to make it a mirror box where everyone can validate their prejudices, he wants to be the joker and knows the media will play along happily. Tim Pool is the only journalist left.



Still very little about the other 3, 2 of them are confirmed connected in some way to the first but the 4th one seems ancillary because they were not described as a gunmen as the other 3 were.

 Crablezworth wrote:

 Formosa wrote:


look I dont think you are getting what he is saying, this person was not far right, he was not far left, he wanted to see the world burn and thats it, and he made this manifesto to divide people along the very lines they are now dividing themselves, the primarily left wing media are calling him alt right, the right wing media are calling him far left, and ALL of them are missing the point, as Tim pool pointed out " the machine keeps on going".

Exactly, he made sure to make it a mirror box where everyone can validate their prejudices, he wants to be the joker and knows the media will play along happily. Tim Pool is the only journalist left.



Still very little about the other 3, 2 of them are confirmed connected in some way to the first but the 4th one seems ancillary because they were not described as a gunmen as the other 3 were.

There was one report that someone heard shooting, went and got a rifle or such from their house and chased after a BG. May be that person.

 blood reaper wrote:
Are people actually trying to claim this guy isn't politically motivated and this wasn't based off of his fascist ideology? (which has been calling for such 'lone wolf attacks' since the late 1960s at least). The entire thing reads like something out of The Turner Diaries.

Christ the sheer level of dishonesty from some people going on right now trying to disassociate this guy (who was festooned in far-right imagery and symbolism) is absurd and shameful.

Not anyone I've noticed until a couple posts above imply it.

I don't think there's any doubt that he was. In amongst his relentless stream of LULZ there's sufficiently constant allusions to memes that only exist in fascistic and white supremacist circles. Rather than doubting his far right 'credentials', I just think it's important to recognise that a lot of his motivation for the way he communicated was trolling. That's pretty fundamental to how the extreme right operates now. It has created a pretty severe problem in the media (and the security services the world over, apparently) because they're still looking for jackboots rather than frog memes.

Good article on it here from one of the terrifyingly few journalists who actually understand terrorism and the internet.

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/rest-of-world/2019/03/15/shitposting-inspirational-terrorism-and-the-christchurch-mosque-massacre/?fbclid=IwAR3tkdtnAanirMqSEnkovDxln1StYsGCVosRpf0lGUZcmEHcMgpgDYRxI2w

 blood reaper wrote:

"He was not far right"

This is ridiculously dishonest and in complete denial of actual empirical evidence in favour of some bizarre 'no agenda but hate' excuse that's trotted out whenever someone goes and starts shooting people.

He espoused most of the basic tenants of the Nazi ideology. Shooting people is fully part of that, as is dividing people.

100% agreed.

Everything else is just a pathetic excuse of fascist who want to divert attention form their sick ideology.

What's next? Claiming it was a false-flag attack to blame peace-loving fascists?

"He was not far right"

This is ridiculously dishonest and in complete denial of actual empirical evidence in favour of some bizarre 'no agenda but hate' excuse that's trotted out whenever someone goes and starts shooting people.

He espoused most of the basic tenants of the Nazi ideology. Shooting people is fully part of that, as is dividing people.


I'm glad the US soldiers who liberated Dachau knew what to do with this kind of person.

No the empirical evidence is that he is trying to divide people by using this language, that manifesto can be used to point blame at the far left just as much as it can be used to point at the far right, THAT is the point, this monster wants us at each others throat and KNEW that the mainstream media would jump on this in exactly the manner they have, he is using identitarian politics that both the far right and the far left use to push that divide.

He hates communists, marxists, capitalists, conservatives etc. he sees them all as traitors and he wants us to fight each other by his own admission.

nfe wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:
Are people actually trying to claim this guy isn't politically motivated and this wasn't based off of his fascist ideology? (which has been calling for such 'lone wolf attacks' since the late 1960s at least). The entire thing reads like something out of The Turner Diaries.

Christ the sheer level of dishonesty from some people going on right now trying to disassociate this guy (who was festooned in far-right imagery and symbolism) is absurd and shameful.

Not anyone I've noticed until a couple posts above imply it.

I don't think there's any doubt that he was. In amongst his relentless stream of LULZ there's sufficiently constant allusions to memes that only exist in fascistic and white supremacist circles. Rather than doubting his far right 'credentials', I just think it's important to recognise that a lot of his motivation for the way he communicated was trolling. That's pretty fundamental to how the extreme right operates now. It has created a pretty severe problem in the media (and the security services the world over, apparently) because they're still looking for jackboots rather than frog memes.

Good article on it here from one of the terrifyingly few journalists who actually understand terrorism and the internet.

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/rest-of-world/2019/03/15/shitposting-inspirational-terrorism-and-the-christchurch-mosque-massacre/?fbclid=IwAR3tkdtnAanirMqSEnkovDxln1StYsGCVosRpf0lGUZcmEHcMgpgDYRxI2w

I'm glad some people can actually accept the fact this person was of a far-right persuassion.

I'm 99% sure had the Munich Beer Hall putsch been launched in 2019 people would be trying to claim Mein Kampf was little more than bait.


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 Formosa wrote:

"He was not far right"

This is ridiculously dishonest and in complete denial of actual empirical evidence in favour of some bizarre 'no agenda but hate' excuse that's trotted out whenever someone goes and starts shooting people.

He espoused most of the basic tenants of the Nazi ideology. Shooting people is fully part of that, as is dividing people.


I'm glad the US soldiers who liberated Dachau knew what to do with this kind of person.

No the empirical evidence is that he is trying to divide people by using this language, that manifesto can be used to point blame at the far left just as much as it can be used to point at the far right, THAT is the point, this monster wants us at each others throat and KNEW that the mainstream media would jump on this in exactly the manner they have, he is using identitarian politics that both the far right and the far left use to push that divide.

He hates communists, marxists, capitalists, conservatives etc. he sees them all as traitors and he wants us to fight each other by his own admission.

No, you have inductive evidence (and very week inductive evidence at that) of your claim. You do not have evidence of any outright statements that he seeks to divide people and has no position. He is not 'left-wing' - what a vague reference to workers rights now constitutes as 'left wing'? What an utter absurdity - on the same level as people claiming 'The Nazis were socialist!'. His ideology is little more that Hitlerite market capitalism.

You all must understand, this individual was at the end of the political horseshoe i personally don't identify with.




It's political catnip written by a cynical callous try hard designed to sow unrest above and beyond the atrocity.



"The Shooter’s Manifesto Was Designed to Troll
The violent rhetoric was written for an audience."

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2019/03/the-shooters-manifesto-was-designed-to-troll/585058/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=edit-promo&utm_campaign=the-atlantic&utm_term=2019-03-15T16%3A21%3A27&fbclid=IwAR0eaAeA262l70lSfpzBEuim1Nmb8cAaBRyhBdYQbUeODcUm8nUg42-yTXU

No, you have inductive evidence of your claim. You do not have evidence of any outright statements that he seeks to divide people and has no position. He is not 'left-wing' - what a vague reference to workers rights now constitutes as 'left wing'? What an utter absurdity - on the same level as people claiming 'The Nazis were socialist!'. His ideology is little more that Hitlerite market capitalism.

I am using his own words, the words that clearly show his intent on the matter, he was a communist, so radical left, then moved to the radical right, all the while remaining a radical extremist which is the key point, he then uses language that again clearly shows he wants people to fight each other, he even directly states that he wants the left to try to take guns from the right in the USA so the right fights back, so there is the evidence you are claiming is not there and this exact thing is now playing out as he predicted it would, just watch any of the american news networks for evidence of this, this one person has totally played the media and they have fallen for it hook line and sinker, have we learned nothing from the last years worth of scandals about jumping the gun, about taking a step back and thinking about pushing a narrative over the truth, now this is going to be used as political currency with zero care or thought to the victims, its disgusting and EXACTLY what this POS predicted.....

Either way I refuse for fall for this clear attempt at dividing us, I will continue have a diverse range of friends with a vast array of ideologies.

 Formosa wrote:

No, you have inductive evidence of your claim. You do not have evidence of any outright statements that he seeks to divide people and has no position. He is not 'left-wing' - what a vague reference to workers rights now constitutes as 'left wing'? What an utter absurdity - on the same level as people claiming 'The Nazis were socialist!'. His ideology is little more that Hitlerite market capitalism.

I am using his own words, the words that clearly show his intent on the matter, he was a communist, so radical left, then moved to the radical right, all the while remaining a radical extremist which is the key point, he then uses language that again clearly shows he wants people to fight each other, he even directly states that he wants the left to try to take guns from the right in the USA so the right fights back, so there is the evidence you are claiming is not there and this exact thing is now playing out as he predicted it would, just watch any of the american news networks for evidence of this, this one person has totally played the media and they have fallen for it hook line and sinker, have we learned nothing from the last years worth of scandals about jumping the gun, about taking a step back and thinking about pushing a narrative over the truth, now this is going to be used as political currency with zero care or thought to the victims, its disgusting and EXACTLY what this POS predicted.....

Either way I refuse for fall for this clear attempt at dividing us, I will continue have a diverse range of friends with a vast array of ideologies.

I sadly can only exalt that once, completely agree. This seems like the joker saying "these people will eat each other" and media reacting with "hey the joker's right, lets eat each other".


It's odd the manifesto makes no mention of anyone else.

 Formosa wrote:

No, you have inductive evidence of your claim. You do not have evidence of any outright statements that he seeks to divide people and has no position. He is not 'left-wing' - what a vague reference to workers rights now constitutes as 'left wing'? What an utter absurdity - on the same level as people claiming 'The Nazis were socialist!'. His ideology is little more that Hitlerite market capitalism.

I am using his own words, the words that clearly show his intent on the matter, he was a communist, so radical left, then moved to the radical right, all the while remaining a radical extremist which is the key point, he then uses language that again clearly shows he wants people to fight each other, he even directly states that he wants the left to try to take guns from the right in the USA so the right fights back, so there is the evidence you are claiming is not there and this exact thing is now playing out as he predicted it would, just watch any of the american news networks for evidence of this, this one person has totally played the media and they have fallen for it hook line and sinker, have we learned nothing from the last years worth of scandals about jumping the gun, about taking a step back and thinking about pushing a narrative over the truth, now this is going to be used as political currency with zero care or thought to the victims, its disgusting and EXACTLY what this POS predicted.....

Either way I refuse for fall for this clear attempt at dividing us, I will continue have a diverse range of friends with a vast array of ideologies.

I'm still not sure why you're insistent on taking a terrorist who claims Spyro taught him ethno-nationalism at his word?

The manifesto is a trolling document start to finish. It's only consistent element is hatred of immigrants, Muslims, and allusions to trolling memes popular primarily amongst the extreme right. His bags and weapons are covered in exclusively extreme right references.

Ironically, atleast over here, it was stated that he was on a list of potential dangerous people.

No travel ban no nothing.

I'm still not sure why you're insistent on taking a terrorist who claims Spyro taught him ethno-nationalism at his word?

The manifesto is a trolling document start to finish. It's only consistent element is hatred of immigrants, Muslims, and allusions to trolling memes popular primarily amongst the extreme right. His bags and weapons are covered in exclusively extreme right references.

Purposefull manipulation of his reading audience. Basically he tries to let it stay up via making it supposed satire?

That or he is a Troll of absolute horrendus TFG levels, in fact such horrendus TFG levels that 'i'd be willing to keep him in solitary confinement forever.

 Crablezworth wrote:
<snip>


I sadly can only exalt that once, completely agree. This seems like the joker saying "these people will eat each other" and media reacting with "hey the joker's right, lets eat each other".


It's odd the manifesto makes no mention of anyone else.

You've literally just posted a (quite good) article presenting the manifesto as hard right shitpostin but you're agreeing with someone arguing that he wasn't right wing?

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Not Online!!! wrote:
Ironically, atleast over here, it was stated that he was on a list of potential dangerous people.

No travel ban no nothing.

That's odd. Neither the Australian nor Kiwi authorities were aware of him, seemingly. I wonder how he found himself on a Swiss radar but was unknown to where he grew up or moved to recently.

I am not NFE, I am looking at the words and the clear intent behind them, that is the want to divide, and as you say this is clearly for attention too, this is how he wanted to become famous/infamous, reading that document this person also clearly had personality disorder and likely some sort of god complex, but is not insane, like i said before that is too easy a cop out, this person deserves to rot in prison, not a secure healthcare ward.

nfe wrote:
I'm still not sure why you're insistent on taking a terrorist who claims Spyro taught him ethno-nationalism at his word?

The manifesto is a trolling document start to finish. It's only consistent element is hatred of immigrants, Muslims, and allusions to trolling memes popular primarily amongst the extreme right. His bags and weapons are covered in exclusively extreme right references.

Wait, so we shouldn't take him at his "word" but we should take him at his references?

That's odd. Neither the Australian nor Kiwi authorities were aware of him, seemingly. I wonder how he found himself on a Swiss radar but was unknown to where he grew up or moved to recently.

It was stated, however that could just be wrong since the papers i read it in is less then stellar accurately, i'd have to wait until tomorow for the NZZ though.

No politics is the rule.