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 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Course not, neither group is unified. That's why it's a "what if" scenario.

Sure. But what does unification mean? Just as a unified fighting force? Marines obviously win by a significant margin in a straight-up fire-fight against Inquisitors.

The power of the Inquisition is their influence and the ability to requisition other imperial assets and fighting forces. But Marines, especially named ones, have that power too.

Inquisitor X against success-chapter-master-Y might "out-rank" him in Imperial string-pulling and win over him. Inquisitor X against, dunno, Dante might lose that same match up.

If all the Marines were unified and Calgar, Azrael, Dante & co. start calling in favours, would they end up commanding, say, the Officio Assassinorum in that "what if" scenario, or would the Inquisition? Who would get the alliance of the Navigators? The Guard? Etc....

You'd just end up with a split really. House Belisarius and others like them are going to go with the Space Marines but weaker houses would probably go with the Inquisition.

Some Guard are going to have more loyalty to local Marines than the far off Inquisition like those in Ultramar.

Assassins go with whoever forges the most paperwork.

More like 'all' guard will go against the Inquisition. The inquisition are their 2nd most common reason to die other than Orks etc.

I cannot find any fluff about the Inquisition being a particularly relevant source of Guardsmen casualties, nor of them fighting against the Inquisition in any meaningful way. The Guard are also not independent, they rely upon the Imperial Navy and Munitorum for their supply and transport, and come from many different worlds, united only by the overarching administration of the Imperium, of which the Inquisition is the most direct and imposing aspect.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Course not, neither group is unified. That's why it's a "what if" scenario.

Sure. But what does unification mean? Just as a unified fighting force? Marines obviously win by a significant margin in a straight-up fire-fight against Inquisitors.

The power of the Inquisition is their influence and the ability to requisition other imperial assets and fighting forces. But Marines, especially named ones, have that power too.

Inquisitor X against success-chapter-master-Y might "out-rank" him in Imperial string-pulling and win over him. Inquisitor X against, dunno, Dante might lose that same match up.

If all the Marines were unified and Calgar, Azrael, Dante & co. start calling in favours, would they end up commanding, say, the Officio Assassinorum in that "what if" scenario, or would the Inquisition? Who would get the alliance of the Navigators? The Guard? Etc....

You'd just end up with a split really. House Belisarius and others like them are going to go with the Space Marines but weaker houses would probably go with the Inquisition.

Some Guard are going to have more loyalty to local Marines than the far off Inquisition like those in Ultramar.

Assassins go with whoever forges the most paperwork.

More like 'all' guard will go against the Inquisition. The inquisition are their 2nd most common reason to die other than Orks etc.

I cannot find any fluff about the Inquisition being a particularly relevant source of Guardsmen casualties, nor of them fighting against the Inquisition in any meaningful way. The Guard are also not independent, they rely upon the Imperial Navy and Munitorum for their supply and transport, and come from many different worlds, united only by the overarching administration of the Imperium, of which the Inquisition is the most direct and imposing aspect.

they're not, the Inqusition are to lmost every guardsmen a pahntom at best, literally a ghost story. Some regimental commanders may have issues with "Inqusitional meddling' but they're far from a major factor in guard casualties.

Surely it also depends upon the specific chapter's and individuals involved.
Could you really call say Dante a heritic, when a Primarch, just said he's a good guy?
What if it's someone working with Custodes who, back the chapter over the inquisition.

Your really going to follow the orders of the guy calling the emperor's golden bodyguards heritics?

People's loyalty won't be able to predicted as cleanly as well your not a marine your do as the inquisition demand.
They can be ignored by many factions or their superior told to get Inquisitior (I am the emperor reborn) back into line before he ensures that the inquisition will be getting very little support from that faction anytime soon.

I am not sure if the Inquisition has enough unity to do all this. Generally, I feel that the inquisition are made up of a ton of very individualistic members who are conditioned to root out the xenos, the heretic, but they all have their own ways of doing it, and even their own views on what is considered xenos or heretic.

Inquisition also doesn't really have any governing council or even committee. Basically, the power of just one inquisitor is limitless in that he can command whatever assets he requires (including space marines). But it is limited by who he or she can reach. And since its impossible for one single inquisitor to reach out to an entire galaxy, the actual resources that an inquisitor can command are generally more limited.

And why would the entire inquisition want to destroy the space marines? They have often proven to be their best helpers in many of their projects. Because space marine are extremely suited towards surgical strikes to root out the heretic and the xenos. Especially because their gear generally makes them very well suited toward fast and surgical response strikes. Trying to mobilise the imperial guard generally takes far longer because of all the logistics and men involved.

I just can't imagine why or even how the inquisition would do this. The inquisition isn't a monolithic block. It was never meant to be.

And why would the entire inquisition want to destroy the space marines? They have often proven to be their best helpers in many of their projects.

Rogue space marines are also responsible for the greatest civil war in the galaxy, and contributed to the near-death of the emperor. The Inquisition would be very suspicious of insubordinate marines, so if there is enough indication of marine mutiny, I imagine it'd be a top priority.

But those have generally been kept to just individual chapters going rogue. The biggest change to restricting the impact of a rogue space marine chapter has already occurred and that was when Gulliman forced all of the space marine legions to split into chapters.

The inquisitors know that while heresy can strike a chapter, it is usually limited to that one chapter. It is almost impossible for heresy to strike across all the chapters in the universe. I mean, there are so many ultramarine chapters out there. And most of them have always been loyalists. Not to mention other loyalist chapters. Why would one or even the entire inquisition collectively decide that suddenly all of these loyalist chapters have gone over to the heresy. No single action or event no matter how heretical would be able to justify this because it would likely to perpetuated by just one space marine chapter.

All the space marine chapters are independent anyway. So how could all of them simultaneously perform a heretical act that causes the entire inquisition to rule that all of the space marines are heretical ?

You could have Gulliman become the next Horus... That still wouldnt damn the entire space marine faction because not all of them throw in their lot with Gulliman. But it would sort of damn every single space marine chapter that got drawn into the Indomitus crusade. But well... why do a repeat of the Horus heresy? And are you guys sure you want Gulliman to turn into another Horus?

Even though the scenario is contrived, it could still happen. And it doesn't need to happen overnight.
Here's a potential (if far fetched) scenario:


But it really doesn't matter in the context of the question, because we are assuming that it did happen. Plus, where's the fun in speculation topics if we can't speculate on scenarios that will never happen?

Dandelion wrote:

And why would the entire inquisition want to destroy the space marines? They have often proven to be their best helpers in many of their projects.

Rogue space marines are also responsible for the greatest civil war in the galaxy, and contributed to the near-death of the emperor. The Inquisition would be very suspicious of insubordinate marines, so if there is enough indication of marine mutiny, I imagine it'd be a top priority.

That's Chaos and putting dumb dumbs in charge. Chaos and rogue marines are very different creatures.

Dandelion wrote:
Even though the scenario is contrived, it could still happen. And it doesn't need to happen overnight.
Here's a potential (if far fetched) scenario:

Spoiler:

- a few chapters refuse to do something
- the disagreement makes the inquisition look weak, so an investigation is launched to punish those chapters
- the purge of loyal marines causes a backlash that results in shots being fired
- this is taken by the inquisition as heresy, so those chapters are fully attacked, and investigations are sent out to all chapters just to send a message
- this completely backfires, resulting in marine defiance of the inquisition
- the inquisition does not back down and a full scale civil war erupts.
This could take years to finally develop, but it's possible. And it doesn't require actual traitor marines, just marines (and friends) fed up with the inquisition.

But it really doesn't matter in the context of the question, because we are assuming that it did happen. Plus, where's the fun in speculation topics if we can't speculate on scenarios that will never happen?

sure except it's never going to be purely inq vs space marines. it'll be more like the Badb war.

pm713 wrote:

Dandelion wrote:

And why would the entire inquisition want to destroy the space marines? They have often proven to be their best helpers in many of their projects.

Rogue space marines are also responsible for the greatest civil war in the galaxy, and contributed to the near-death of the emperor. The Inquisition would be very suspicious of insubordinate marines, so if there is enough indication of marine mutiny, I imagine it'd be a top priority.

That's Chaos and putting dumb dumbs in charge. Chaos and rogue marines are very different creatures.

That's a bit pedantic, I think. Point was that marines can do a lot of damage if they want to, and so they are not immune to suspicion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

Dandelion wrote:
Even though the scenario is contrived, it could still happen. And it doesn't need to happen overnight.
Here's a potential (if far fetched) scenario:

Spoiler:

- a few chapters refuse to do something
- the disagreement makes the inquisition look weak, so an investigation is launched to punish those chapters
- the purge of loyal marines causes a backlash that results in shots being fired
- this is taken by the inquisition as heresy, so those chapters are fully attacked, and investigations are sent out to all chapters just to send a message
- this completely backfires, resulting in marine defiance of the inquisition
- the inquisition does not back down and a full scale civil war erupts.
This could take years to finally develop, but it's possible. And it doesn't require actual traitor marines, just marines (and friends) fed up with the inquisition.

But it really doesn't matter in the context of the question, because we are assuming that it did happen. Plus, where's the fun in speculation topics if we can't speculate on scenarios that will never happen?

sure except it's never going to be purely inq vs space marines. it'll be more like the Badb war.

And? It can be anything we want it to be, since it's fiction and we're just spouting nonsensical speculation for the fun of it. In this case we are assuming it is only marines vs inq as a thought experiment, and that doesn't require that it be plausible.
Personally my vote goes to the inquisition since they can muster every imperial army that is not marines. That and pure marines would be incapable of holding ground in a galactic war (due to lack of numbers)

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Engrenages wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Grey Knights don't exist so nobody is going to take their side and the few people who know of their existence aren't fond of them.
Marine chapters will not be limited to 1000 marines.
Salamanders are somehow packing 2000 Primaris marines.
Goodness knows with Black Templar.
Space Wolves have a more definite number of about 10000 strong - bigger than codex to begin with, decimated by the wrath of Magnus, buffered by Wulfen, buffered by 1000 Primaris Marines, buffered again by the return of a whole 30k era great company.

Well before the whole Wrath of Magnus thingy, Ragnar's Great Company (who was the biggest out of the thirteen) numbered 130/50-ish marines, so they wouldn't be able to field 10k marines.

No one knows their actual numbers, not their full numbers anyways but yeah its not even close to 10,000 and I'm a SW player.

I got Black Crusade and Indominus Crusade mixed up.
Read Ashes of Prospero - The Space Wolves currently have a whole 30k Great Company that they plucked out of a Warp trap, they are sitting at 10,000 Marines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
But those have generally been kept to just individual chapters going rogue. The biggest change to restricting the impact of a rogue space marine chapter has already occurred and that was when Gulliman forced all of the space marine legions to split into chapters.

The inquisitors know that while heresy can strike a chapter, it is usually limited to that one chapter. It is almost impossible for heresy to strike across all the chapters in the universe. I mean, there are so many ultramarine chapters out there. And most of them have always been loyalists. Not to mention other loyalist chapters. Why would one or even the entire inquisition collectively decide that suddenly all of these loyalist chapters have gone over to the heresy. No single action or event no matter how heretical would be able to justify this because it would likely to perpetuated by just one space marine chapter.

All the space marine chapters are independent anyway. So how could all of them simultaneously perform a heretical act that causes the entire inquisition to rule that all of the space marines are heretical ?

You could have Gulliman become the next Horus... That still wouldnt damn the entire space marine faction because not all of them throw in their lot with Gulliman. But it would sort of damn every single space marine chapter that got drawn into the Indomitus crusade. But well... why do a repeat of the Horus heresy? And are you guys sure you want Gulliman to turn into another Horus?

To be fair Baal managed to get all but one of the Blood Angels' successor chapters to come to its aid. If the BA turned rogue there is a fair chance its successor chapters would turn with it.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Engrenages wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Grey Knights don't exist so nobody is going to take their side and the few people who know of their existence aren't fond of them.
Marine chapters will not be limited to 1000 marines.
Salamanders are somehow packing 2000 Primaris marines.
Goodness knows with Black Templar.
Space Wolves have a more definite number of about 10000 strong - bigger than codex to begin with, decimated by the wrath of Magnus, buffered by Wulfen, buffered by 1000 Primaris Marines, buffered again by the return of a whole 30k era great company.

Well before the whole Wrath of Magnus thingy, Ragnar's Great Company (who was the biggest out of the thirteen) numbered 130/50-ish marines, so they wouldn't be able to field 10k marines.

No one knows their actual numbers, not their full numbers anyways but yeah its not even close to 10,000 and I'm a SW player.

I got Black Crusade and Indominus Crusade mixed up.
Read Ashes of Prospero - The Space Wolves currently have a whole 30k Great Company that they plucked out of a Warp trap, they are sitting at 10,000 Marines.

No, they have the REMAINS of a great company they picked up. all indications was that they suffered pretty heavy casualities and many of those Marines had already returned (the Wulfen) it's also worth noting the Space Wolves codex made no mention of it so this could be one of thsoe weird ideas mentioned in one novel and promptly ignored.

This all really boils down to "who does the mechanicus side with" because if all the marines side together and all the inquisition somehow side together and use whatever forces they can muster, both sides still gonna need dem guns.

 Formosa wrote:
This all really boils down to "who does the mechanicus side with" because if all the marines side together and all the inquisition somehow side together and use whatever forces they can muster, both sides still gonna need dem guns.

Lots of Astartes make their own guns and such. If the Mechanicum do something other than side with the Inquisition then they're in trouble.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
I am not sure if the Inquisition has enough unity to do all this.

Neither do Space Marines have enough unity to unite against the inquisition . Plenty of Marine Chapters often act as little more than inquisitorial agents, and that's without going in to the Deathwatch or the Grey Knights.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But let me say how it'd probably go down.

The most influential Lords and Ladies of the Inquisition secretly decide that the Space Marines are a threat to the Imperium's long-term health because of reasons.

And so they pass information along to the less influential Inquisitors to influence them to believe the same. Assuming they are successful, the Inquisition makes a shadow war against the Astartes, through supplies, rerouted requisitions, lack of information during crusades, and the like, while strengthening Inquisitorial ties to various military forces such as the Guards, the Crusaders, the Knights and the Titans, and building up favors and subservience to the Inquisition.

This proceeds until the Astartes collectively realize what's going on, and then open civil war happens. At this point, the Astartes are weakened, and the Inquisition is strengthened, but still some Guard units side with the Astartes and some Inquisitors never supported this war, while some Astartes chapters submit to a suicidal crusade as their way of getting out of this. The Mechanicus objects to the war as a whole, most likely and does its best to stay out of it, though some members of the Mechanicus inevitably get drawn in to the war.

Thus the Inquisition, through the Imperium at large, wages bloody civil war filled with massive amounts of propaganda, and eventually the most powerful and influential of the Astartes chapters separate from the Imperium and form little fiefdoms such as the Realm of Ultramar, creating an uneasy peace as they are unable to finish the war before needing to deal with the other enemies such as Orks, Chaos, and the Tyranids. Many smaller chapters will likely either perish or be unified under the larger, more influential chapters, with various alliances forming, fracturing off the Imperium and forming a new status quo.

pm713 wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
This all really boils down to "who does the mechanicus side with" because if all the marines side together and all the inquisition somehow side together and use whatever forces they can muster, both sides still gonna need dem guns.

Lots of Astartes make their own guns and such. If the Mechanicum do something other than side with the Inquisition then they're in trouble.

Lots do, most dont, even marines cant keep up a war effort if EVERY chapter unites, sure they have stock piles but they will eventually run dry and if they have no replacement parts, ammo or wargear they lose eventually.

How did this get into inquisition vs all marines when the OP was inquisition vs three chapters? Space marines are not going to line up to commit suicide with the traitors. Once the first chapter world is reduced to ash by an exterminatus fleet the rest will likely fall in line. Hell, you might even see an Ultramarines loyalty force leading the purge to prove their superiority as the Imperium's best and most perfect chapter.

chimera0205 wrote:
lets say that a little bit before the Thirteenth Black Crusade the three way cluster feth that is the third battle of Armageddon actually finishes with a Imperium victory. Due to a large number of imperial guardsmen on planet having extensive contact with the choatic forces on planet the Inquisition decides to pull a repeat of the first battle of Armageddon and kill all the IG forces on planet. The Salamander and Space wolve contingents on planet object to this action for the same reasons the Space Wolves did the first time. this once again escalates into a full scale war similar to the months of shame. the Black Templars still being pissed off at the Inquisition fro what they did to the the Celestial Lions decide to jump on as well. How would a full scale civil war between Ordos Malleus and 3 first founding chapters play out?

In the end, I believe the Space Marines would come out on top, they have more support and experience compared to the Inquisition, who people fear because of their indiscrimating bloodshed towards innocent people.

Think about, how much people in the Imperium ACTUALLY like the Inquisition in the first place not out of fear?

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Course not, neither group is unified. That's why it's a "what if" scenario.

Sure. But what does unification mean? Just as a unified fighting force? Marines obviously win by a significant margin in a straight-up fire-fight against Inquisitors.

The power of the Inquisition is their influence and the ability to requisition other imperial assets and fighting forces. But Marines, especially named ones, have that power too.

Inquisitor X against success-chapter-master-Y might "out-rank" him in Imperial string-pulling and win over him. Inquisitor X against, dunno, Dante might lose that same match up.

If all the Marines were unified and Calgar, Azrael, Dante & co. start calling in favours, would they end up commanding, say, the Officio Assassinorum in that "what if" scenario, or would the Inquisition? Who would get the alliance of the Navigators? The Guard? Etc....

You'd just end up with a split really. House Belisarius and others like them are going to go with the Space Marines but weaker houses would probably go with the Inquisition.

Some Guard are going to have more loyalty to local Marines than the far off Inquisition like those in Ultramar.

Assassins go with whoever forges the most paperwork.

More like 'all' guard will go against the Inquisition. The inquisition are their 2nd most common reason to die other than Orks etc.

I cannot find any fluff about the Inquisition being a particularly relevant source of Guardsmen casualties, nor of them fighting against the Inquisition in any meaningful way. The Guard are also not independent, they rely upon the Imperial Navy and Munitorum for their supply and transport, and come from many different worlds, united only by the overarching administration of the Imperium, of which the Inquisition is the most direct and imposing aspect.

Are you kidding every time they fight daemons or if they are unlucky enough to fight beside GK's they are put to death by the Inquisition.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Engrenages wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Grey Knights don't exist so nobody is going to take their side and the few people who know of their existence aren't fond of them.
Marine chapters will not be limited to 1000 marines.
Salamanders are somehow packing 2000 Primaris marines.
Goodness knows with Black Templar.
Space Wolves have a more definite number of about 10000 strong - bigger than codex to begin with, decimated by the wrath of Magnus, buffered by Wulfen, buffered by 1000 Primaris Marines, buffered again by the return of a whole 30k era great company.

Well before the whole Wrath of Magnus thingy, Ragnar's Great Company (who was the biggest out of the thirteen) numbered 130/50-ish marines, so they wouldn't be able to field 10k marines.

No one knows their actual numbers, not their full numbers anyways but yeah its not even close to 10,000 and I'm a SW player.

I got Black Crusade and Indominus Crusade mixed up.
Read Ashes of Prospero - The Space Wolves currently have a whole 30k Great Company that they plucked out of a Warp trap, they are sitting at 10,000 Marines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
But those have generally been kept to just individual chapters going rogue. The biggest change to restricting the impact of a rogue space marine chapter has already occurred and that was when Gulliman forced all of the space marine legions to split into chapters.

The inquisitors know that while heresy can strike a chapter, it is usually limited to that one chapter. It is almost impossible for heresy to strike across all the chapters in the universe. I mean, there are so many ultramarine chapters out there. And most of them have always been loyalists. Not to mention other loyalist chapters. Why would one or even the entire inquisition collectively decide that suddenly all of these loyalist chapters have gone over to the heresy. No single action or event no matter how heretical would be able to justify this because it would likely to perpetuated by just one space marine chapter.

All the space marine chapters are independent anyway. So how could all of them simultaneously perform a heretical act that causes the entire inquisition to rule that all of the space marines are heretical ?

You could have Gulliman become the next Horus... That still wouldnt damn the entire space marine faction because not all of them throw in their lot with Gulliman. But it would sort of damn every single space marine chapter that got drawn into the Indomitus crusade. But well... why do a repeat of the Horus heresy? And are you guys sure you want Gulliman to turn into another Horus?

To be fair Baal managed to get all but one of the Blood Angels' successor chapters to come to its aid. If the BA turned rogue there is a fair chance its successor chapters would turn with it.

I have read it, they are not at full strength and their numbers aren't stated from what I remember.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Engrenages wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Grey Knights don't exist so nobody is going to take their side and the few people who know of their existence aren't fond of them.
Marine chapters will not be limited to 1000 marines.
Salamanders are somehow packing 2000 Primaris marines.
Goodness knows with Black Templar.
Space Wolves have a more definite number of about 10000 strong - bigger than codex to begin with, decimated by the wrath of Magnus, buffered by Wulfen, buffered by 1000 Primaris Marines, buffered again by the return of a whole 30k era great company.

Well before the whole Wrath of Magnus thingy, Ragnar's Great Company (who was the biggest out of the thirteen) numbered 130/50-ish marines, so they wouldn't be able to field 10k marines.

No one knows their actual numbers, not their full numbers anyways but yeah its not even close to 10,000 and I'm a SW player.

using the known numbers of the various Great companies I'e estimated the Space Wolves at lying somewhere between 1500-2000 marines so big yes but not insanely unreasonably big. IMHO the novel Wolfsbane finally puts the final piece of the space wolf puzzle into place. The Space Wolves only divided once, and where left alone for it, not because Lemen Russ was somehow a bad ass, but because the Wolves got WRECKED during the heresy. Russ lost most of his legion in his, YOLO attack on Horus

Yeah but they were around for ages after the HH and before they were split in two so their numbers wouldn't have been anything like after the YOLO attack on the vengeful spirit.

The whole "if you see Chaos you die" thing isn't really true at all. Otherwise every planet near Cadia would have 0 population and Cadia would have had new garrisons every day.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Engrenages wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Grey Knights don't exist so nobody is going to take their side and the few people who know of their existence aren't fond of them.
Marine chapters will not be limited to 1000 marines.
Salamanders are somehow packing 2000 Primaris marines.
Goodness knows with Black Templar.
Space Wolves have a more definite number of about 10000 strong - bigger than codex to begin with, decimated by the wrath of Magnus, buffered by Wulfen, buffered by 1000 Primaris Marines, buffered again by the return of a whole 30k era great company.

Well before the whole Wrath of Magnus thingy, Ragnar's Great Company (who was the biggest out of the thirteen) numbered 130/50-ish marines, so they wouldn't be able to field 10k marines.

No one knows their actual numbers, not their full numbers anyways but yeah its not even close to 10,000 and I'm a SW player.

I got Black Crusade and Indominus Crusade mixed up.
Read Ashes of Prospero - The Space Wolves currently have a whole 30k Great Company that they plucked out of a Warp trap, they are sitting at 10,000 Marines.

No, they have the REMAINS of a great company they picked up. all indications was that they suffered pretty heavy casualities and many of those Marines had already returned (the Wulfen) it's also worth noting the Space Wolves codex made no mention of it so this could be one of thsoe weird ideas mentioned in one novel and promptly ignored.

Ashes of Prospero came out two months before the Space Wolves' codex but the Space Wolves' codex was already several months out of date when it was released, written before the April 2018 big FAQ.
Gotta love GW publishing.

two first founding and one second founding chapters are nothing to sneeze at. Space Wolves and Black Templars are also two of tge biggest chapters around, with the Black Templars most likely being able to get back up from the Imperial Fists and other successor chapters. If the Dark Angels were part of the conflict, because the existance of the Fallen got discovered or something, then would be the entire Unforgiven, 9 chapters plus the Dark Angels themselves, would fighting alongside the other chapters. That would be cataclysmic.

Even if the Unforgiven were thete though, the entire Ordo Malleus would bring in the other ordos and all their assets. Sisters of Battle, Grey Knights, maybe the Deathwatch, tons of powerful agents and thier retinues, even more stormtrooper regiments, and the Imperial Navy would most likely side with them. Not to mention the Red Scorpions and the Minotaurs would do anything the High Lords ask of them. Assassins will eventually be deployed, because even without the Unforgiven it would be a very brutal war and the the numbers of the Space Wolves and Black Templars plus Imperial Fist Successors would make it longer than the High Lords would want it to.

If the marines fell to chaos, well, the Fists are in the perfect position to bomb terra (With Phalanx and all) otherwise, there is no way the inquisition would lose.

Now if it was EVERY Space Marine chapter except the ones tied to the High Lords like the Minitaurs and Red Scorpions, It would probably be a different story.

Depending on who they deem to be more loyal to the Emperor, the Custodes could also get involved and fight against those they believe are not doing what theyre doing for the Emperor, and imo, I think the Custodians would help the marines. I get the impression they dont like the Inquisition very much.

Against just 3 chapters and their allies, the Inquisition wins.
Against a large scale up rising, it all depends on who the Custodes fight alongside. Custodians have more power than even inquisitors. Just knowing the Custodians joined the fight would bring countless worlds in support of them, because if the Emperors own bodyguards pick a side, then that side must be the right side. Although, thats if they even pick a side.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
And why would the entire inquisition want to destroy the space marines? They have often proven to be their best helpers in many of their projects. Because space marine are extremely suited towards surgical strikes to root out the heretic and the xenos. Especially because their gear generally makes them very well suited toward fast and surgical response strikes. Trying to mobilise the imperial guard generally takes far longer because of all the logistics and men involved.

I just can't imagine why or even how the inquisition would do this. The inquisition isn't a monolithic block. It was never meant to be.

Honestly, this is one of the few times where they would respond in concert. As the sons of malice say, you can't eat them all, because when the next one realizes what you did they bring a whole lot more force than the appetizer did. And when they do things like that, it draws the attention of other inquisitors, because who knows if another inquisitor has gone off the deep end, but if they conclude that their peer is in the right you can expect even more support to be thrown behind them to punish those who attacked the inquisition. It'd hardly be a unified initial push, but if the marines stuck around they'd be facing cataclysmic levels of response, and almost certain exterminatus on their home world.

So, marines can run, or they can die, eventually. There's a number of renegade chapters with stories not too far from this. Their best case senario is to go undetected in their offenses against the inquisition, short of direct intervention by gulliman there's very little that would stop the inquisition from just sending more resources in. Take the Babab war, guys had built up more than any first founding chapter other than the ultramarines would have, with 150 years of turning the output of a decent sized region of space to the production of war material, still got taken down eventually and had to bug out.

Haven't the inquisition tried to destroy the SW twice? Armageddon as mentioned in the OP, and then again when the wulfen returned. The first time, the inquisition lost, the second time the inquisition and DA essentially lost, as the SW were found to be free of taint and the attacking forces were found to be infiltrated by the changeling.

Space marine homeworlds are no laughing matter, and the inquisition doesn't have the tools to break them. Likely it would be another war that went on forever. Nether force would show their full strength all at once for risk of losing everything. The marines would replenish as the inquisition would.

How many space marine worlds have been successfully sieged? Propspero was, but a large portion of that was due to defenses being down when the wolves arrived.

 gwarsh41 wrote:
Haven't the inquisition tried to destroy the SW twice? Armageddon as mentioned in the OP, and then again when the wulfen returned. The first time, the inquisition lost, the second time the inquisition and DA essentially lost, as the SW were found to be free of taint and the attacking forces were found to be infiltrated by the changeling.

Space marine homeworlds are no laughing matter, and the inquisition doesn't have the tools to break them. Likely it would be another war that went on forever. Nether force would show their full strength all at once for risk of losing everything. The marines would replenish as the inquisition would.

How many space marine worlds have been successfully sieged? Propspero was, but a large portion of that was due to defenses being down when the wolves arrived.

The Space Wolves mostly survived thanks to lack of political will to destroy them, not lack of means to do so. Entire Space Marines Chapter have been purged in the past. Sometimes, like in the case of the Badab War, it's catastrophic as they have time to fortify and arm the local population to create a sizeable auxilary force. Even then, the Badab War, while a landmark conflict for the Imperium was ridiculously tiny compared to many other conflicts. If the Adeptus Astartes was to be declared heretical from top to bottom, the Imperium would be wracked by Civil War, but the Adeptus Astartes itself remains it's weakest military asset. It's porbable the Inquisition would get its victory that is unless xenos or Chaos forces decide to act during that time of weakness and attack some of the belligerent.