Ynnead, Phoenix Lords and the shards of Khaine....

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**Argive**

Ta the moment we only have court of the young king which is baicaly a strat you would play if you are playing bieltan scorpions or banshees. But at 2CP and needing the avatar to really make it work is a bit meh...

**Marin**

Elbows wrote:
I think the Phoenix Lords suffer from early-book syndrome. They'd be fine if everything that came later wasn't significantly stronger/better.

Asurmen is expensive, particularly when he's fielding basic avenger shuriken catapults (seriously at his cost, just give him a minor boost. -1 AP or something on his guns so he's not a joke) He is survivable with an actual invulnerable save which is fantastic.

Baharroth is underwhelming but cheap.

Fuegan is one of my favourites. 5+ feel-no-pain and he goes super-sayan when wounded. He also has tremendously potent weapons. He's actually a serious beat-stick but does suffer from a lack of invulnerable saves like many other PLs.

Jain Zar is okay, particularly with the new cost. However, if this was a later book, she'd have 6-7 attacks base. She's not deadly enough to survive return attacks by most enemy units (particularly with so many cheap models now capable of throwing 3-5 attacks apiece)

Karandras suffers from being a close-combat character who may struggle to get there. Without the benefits Jain Zar has, he's really just asking to be shot. Also, I hate units which have weapons you'll never use (see: Scorpion Chainsword). This is lazy game design. Give it a stat-line or trait which makes us actually use his other weapon. He's cool, but as mentioned above...not worth a full squad of Scorpions (same cost).

Maugan Ra is pretty solid because he can actually stay at range (only Phoenix Lord with a range beyond 24"). Keep him in cover for a 1+ save (which translates into almost having an invulnerable save) and he's solid. No real beef here.

PS: Even though I genuinely don't believe we'll see a plastic Aspect/Phoenix Lord launch...I do hope we see some Aspect Warrior based specialist detachments in the future - a couple traits or stratagems could turn some of these units from "meh" into some really decent options. I run a ton of aspect warriors anyway...and lose terribly.

Aspect like most of the more elite infantry are just not loved by the designers. They pay for the stats and tricks with little synergy and cheap chaff get all the good stuff.
For instance cheap chaff help generate CP and they get all the good things. For instance guardians have +1 to hit and 4++ stratagems, guard and conscription can soulburst every turn, fire warriors have str 5 30 range gun, skitari rangers have 30 range.
What make them also not perfect is the PL auras are kind of meh. Asurman seem useful, but the model is super expensive for what he do, i mean its the some price like daemon prince and smash captain.
The rest are just interesting but with their stats you are better investing in pshychers who really buff the units.

**Shadenuat**

Jain Zar has really excellent rules combination. Very annoying model, great for removing overwatch and blocking units. Unlike Banshees, can't be easily removed due to being a character - which also means she doesn't require a transport. And there are at least 2 alternative models for her.

Maugan is quite solid.

Asurmen is when you have 40 Avengers.

Others I see no reason to field, really. Like Bahharoth, who for his price is worse than most Autarches with a relic thrown on them.

Aspect like most of the more elite infantry are just not loved by the designers

Aspects, from most of the elite infantry, are pretty decent. Some of them could use maybe a (single) point drop, Spiders could use better weapons, and Scorpions - better regular guys so they would be worth it for something else but carrying their Exarch around.

Aside from that, DAs, Banshees, Dragons, Hawks, Spears and Reapers are solid and make for a strong army which doesn't rely on spam, which is awesome.

**Elbows**

Yep, I agree...Aspects, much like Space Marines are too expensive and not deadly enough in a game where GW rewards cheap chaff with obnoxious buffs/stratagems/auras/costs.

A Striking Scorpion or Howling Banshee squad never stands a chance against a mob of Ork boyz (half their cost), or Tzaangors, etc. It's the fundamental thing GW got wrong with 8th. When you have chaff units hitting on 2's,. re-rolling, getting 4-6 attacks, re-rolling etc...elite infantry (without any of that) fall apart really quick.

I still take aspects often, and they always get obliterated.

**Shadenuat**

Just don't tell that to marine players.

Banshees are not for fighting boyz. Throwing Banshees on ork boyz is like trying to kill them with Fire Dragons.

**Skinnereal**

Bharring wrote:
Shining Spears, for Aspects with models.

They only have models if they keep making the old style of jetbike. They need an overhaul, what with the newer Windriders models.
The same with the Autarch Skyrunner.

**Tyranid Horde**

Skinnereal wrote:
Bharring wrote:
Shining Spears, for Aspects with models.
They only have models if they keep making the old style of jetbike. They need an overhaul, what with the newer Windriders models.
The same with the Autarch Skyrunner.

They're compatible with the new windrunners but that's an expensive upgrade now that you can't buy the upgrade kit separately. You're right though, they need a big overhaul.

**Amishprn86**

Shadenuat wrote:
Just don't tell that to marine players.

Banshees are not for fighting boyz. Throwing Banshees on ork boyz is like trying to kill them with Fire Dragons.

Yeah.... Banshees are for shooting units, fast movements, extra charge range and anti-overwatch, get to drones/suits, hellblasters, SB sisters, etc..

**Bharring**

Banshees are also best as the tip of the spear. A Banshee unit won't kill a unit, but a Banshee unit and Scorpion unit might wipe out a unit without even getting attacked - overwatch or otherwise.

I find they have some use either to rush a backfielder, or to lead the charge. Running Aspect Hosts without a deathstar typically means you're assaulting individual units with multiple. Not the best strategy, but it's what Banshees are best at. Even my Dire Avengers pile in and help.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
5 Banshees and 20 Dire Avengers kill a lot more than 5 Banshees. Still nothing to write home about, but making it work is all about cutting off a portion of their force and handling it all at once.

**Reemule**

I'd love for them to revamp Striking Scorps, Swooping Hawks, and Dire Avengers, but I think Howling Banshee's, Fire Dragons, and Dork Reapers are good already.

Same with Phoenix Hawks. Asurman, Jain Zar, and Maugan Ra are great, Fuegan is on the bubble, but Baharroth, and Karandras struggle.

Also on the Phoenix Lord level, some rationality applied to all of them and the abilities they have would be good. Baharroth gives Swooping hawks Reroll 1's but not himself, but Leadership to all aspects, where Asurman gives 5++, and others give other things.

I'd prefer them to give, something like Phoenix Lord buff. Aspect warriors of the same shrine get reroll 1's to hit and wound, 5+ FNP, and +1 Leadership. While using the PL's buff, no other aura's affect this unit. Asurman can choose what Aspect Warrior type he is going to affect each turn.