Switch Theme:

Recasts- the legal side  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
Author Message

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Made in gb
Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh

Devon, UK

 Formerly Wu wrote:
 Azreal13 wrote:
No, he's asking about the legality of the issue, not the morality.

It's perfectly obvious what he was asking about, and I chose to address that.

I'd suggest that if one can make two interpretations of something, in this case either choosing to answer the question asked or choosing to ascribe a bunch of intent that may or may not exist, then nothing is perfectly obvious.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
Made in us
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant

Bharring wrote:"Copyright" is about duplication, not method of duplication. Whether you're recasting, scanning and 3d printing, casting a magic spell, or whatever - the problem is in producing a duplicate of a creative work.

There's nothing directly illegal (AFAIK) about "recasting" itself - the legal trouble is the violation of copyright (and in some cases trademark). This applies equally regardless of method.

None of that applies in a "scratchbuild", even if it hews closely to the structure of the game or lore. Because creating a "Land Raider" or "Demon Prince" to represent the concept is a creative work, it's regarded highly - often even more highly than buying equivelant GW kits. There's not much in the way of creative work in copypastaing GWs kits directly, though.

As in many legal grey areas, the deciding factor tends to come down to whether money changed hands and if so, how much. Recasts or hypothetical close-enough scratchbuilds may or may not be violations of copyright, but nobody is going to go after you if you made them and they're for your personal use only. It's not worth their time. Start charging for them and you open yourself to liability. Start buying them and you start opening yourself up to the issues Slowroll mentioned.

Azreal13 wrote:
I'd suggest that if one can make two interpretations of something, in this case either choosing to answer the question asked or choosing to ascribe a bunch of intent that may or may not exist, then nothing is perfectly obvious.


Made in us
Painting Within the Lines

Charlotte, NC

 Formerly Wu wrote:

So, I'm a CEO of a major corporation, and I just realized that I cant pay my yacht payment this month. I REALLY love my yacht. Therefore, I 'restructure' my company a little to ensure my cost-saving measures guarantee the board will vote to allow me a larger bonus so I can pay for my yacht. The unfortunate side effect is that, in my restructuring, 100 people have lost their jobs, and their families now have to struggle to buy food.
Legal? Absolutely.
Moral? Not a chance in hell.
Amateur legal parsing? Maybe. I dont get paid for my opinion, so I guess I am an amateur.
A bit of hyperbole perhaps, but the lines between moral and legal have been separate to some degree since man first put laws on paper.

And if that CEO came to me asking about the technical details of corporate restructuring, I would tell him the same thing I told you: do whatever you want, but own what you're doing instead of hiding behind legalities.

Edit: rephrased the last sentence to make more sense.

So here's the thing. When I pose a question in a forum like this, it's because I am truly curious about a thing. I try to be specific and use discrete language to focus on the question at hand. If I had wanted to discuss the moral rectitude of recasting or not, I would have said so. For the purposes of this discussion, how I personally feel about it is irrelevant. I also try to refrain from making 'you' statements, because that implies knowledge of a person that I simply don't possess. I would ask that you do the same, please. My apologies if this comes out a bit too directed, but I just want to be clear that I am in no way condoning recasting or the sale of same. Please refer to (and not infer from) my original post. Recasting wasn't nearly as pervasive when I played last, and I wanted to know how so much of it seems to be getting around the infamous GW c&d machine.

For Commission information, PM or contact me at cataclysmstudio78@gmail.com
Made in au
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan

 Formerly Wu wrote:
Humans are exceptionally good at rationalizing away activities that benefit them individually but harm the community in the long run.

You said "leaving the moral issue aside," but what you're doing here is trying to use amateur legal parsing to assuage your moral concerns.

If you want to buy recasts, I am not going to stop you. But own what you're doing.

No, people like you are incapable of setting morality aside for even a second to look at the actual legality of an action, as such it can be incredibly difficult for many people to get a straight answer concerning the legality of well, anything, because so many people just answer off "feel" instead of actual knowledge.

P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it. 
Made in au
Cutting stuff up and bunging it back together in new and interesting ways.

Under the couch

 Stormonu wrote:
Interesting side question - where do scratchbuilts fall in this? Is there a line on those where they cross from acceptable (recombining from existing parts vs. styrene, greenstuff and 3d printed parts)? How does scratch building compare vs. recasting (I.e., if you scratch built a Land Raider from non-GW parts so it’s indistinguishable from a real one, versus a recast version, what’s the difference?)

Technically, a reproduction is a copyright infringement regardless of the method used to do it. So, yes, a scratchbuild that was indistinguishable from the original model it is based on would be no less an infringement than something cast in resin.

GW's stance over the years has always been more relaxed about scratchbuilds, however, as they recognise the positive hobby aspects of these sorts of builds.

On the recasting front, though - the legalities have been covered, so I'm going to go ahead and lock this one to avoid it wandering any further into undesirable territory. Dakka does not and can not endorse copyright infringement, and so also prefers to avoid discussion endorsing it, which is inevitably a side-effect of these sorts of threads.

Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: