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Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Norwich

 Ouze wrote:
Formosa wrote:crap what do we have coming up that will be good people?? help me out.


Formosa wrote:I didnt say "good" what do you mean?


*jazz hands*


That's why context matters, the message he left made no sense what so ever.

   
Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Formosa wrote:

I didnt say "good" what do you mean?

Godilla, which one? Spider man, which one? It, which one? never heard of dark materials, is that good? Willow the series... they made a series about willow, loved that movie as a kid.


Oh yeah, I would totally watch Willow the series.


You might know "His Dark Materials" from earlier attempt to bring it on big screen, "Golden Compass". It was quite awful. The books were very good, but weird. It's bit like Narnia turned inside out. In place of Lewis' Christian message, there is Pullman's vicious attack on religion and especially Catholic Church.


Mr Vetock, give back my Multi-tracker! 
   
Made in gb
[MOD]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury







The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
Arendt wrote about megalomaniacal leaders eager to believe that all failures can be denied or erased, and “mad enough to discard all limited and local interests—economic, national, human, military—in favor of a purely fictitious reality
 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





Backfire wrote:
 Formosa wrote:

I didnt say "good" what do you mean?

Godilla, which one? Spider man, which one? It, which one? never heard of dark materials, is that good? Willow the series... they made a series about willow, loved that movie as a kid.


Oh yeah, I would totally watch Willow the series.


You might know "His Dark Materials" from earlier attempt to bring it on big screen, "Golden Compass". It was quite awful. The books were very good, but weird. It's bit like Narnia turned inside out. In place of Lewis' Christian message, there is Pullman's vicious attack on religion and especially Catholic Church.



I don't know the ending to The Last Battle seems to suggest a rather petty deity prone to murdering his child followers just to spite someone who'd chosen another path

As for this, looks shaky and has a hint of modern commentary done hamfisted

"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in ie
Regular Dakkanaut




… this looks much better than I expected? I'm genuinely quite shocked.

Updating the setting and timeframe is bold. Plenty of ways it can still fail, but that's the only way it might succeed.
   
Made in us
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine




United States

So this is a sequel to the comics right? If I just show my wife the movie again and say "This except instead of framing doctor manhattan he fakes an alien invasion". It will be enough of a prequel without making her read the graphic novel?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/21 11:28:36


 
   
Made in us
Hangin' with Gork & Mork






I think it is a follow up to the movie but not 100% on that.

Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
 
   
Made in us
Hangin' with Gork & Mork






Another new Watchmen trailer. Wouldn't sure if I should make a whole new thread or just revive the previous thread about this upcoming series so tossed a coin and revived ye olde thread. Trailer shows more of the new characters and the conflict between law enforcement and the Rorschach cult(?). Still not sure if this a follow up to the comic or to the movie though.



Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




I did like the pod bit - 'do you know why you are here?'
'A nun kicked down my door hit me and shoved me in the boot of her car'
......'correct'
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





you can fill your trailer full of ominous doom klaxons, but it won't hide it's HBO doing a CW tribute act (with extra potty mouthing and punching)*

*todays downer on capes brought to you by Gotham S5, full of everything I hate about the Bat Mythos...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/15 20:45:56


"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in gb
[MOD]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

interview with a few bits and bobs

https://ew.com/tv/2019/09/18/damon-lindelof-watchmen-interview/

bit long/awkward to C & P


Robert Redford has been president for 28 years. Cell phones and the internet are outlawed. Fossil fuels are a thing of the past. Costumed heroes were popular, then banned. Police wear masks to protect their identities and cannot use their guns without a dispatcher unlocking them first. Reparations were issued for racial injustice, and our country remains ever divided.


..believe in the UK this is coming to Sky Atlantic.


..probably give it a go, gotta watch something in between episodes of Succession.

The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
Arendt wrote about megalomaniacal leaders eager to believe that all failures can be denied or erased, and “mad enough to discard all limited and local interests—economic, national, human, military—in favor of a purely fictitious reality
 
   
Made in us
Napoleonics Obsesser




MN

 reds8n wrote:
interview with a few bits and bobs

https://ew.com/tv/2019/09/18/damon-lindelof-watchmen-interview/

bit long/awkward to C & P


Robert Redford has been president for 28 years. Cell phones and the internet are outlawed. Fossil fuels are a thing of the past. Costumed heroes were popular, then banned. Police wear masks to protect their identities and cannot use their guns without a dispatcher unlocking them first. Reparations were issued for racial injustice, and our country remains ever divided.


..believe in the UK this is coming to Sky Atlantic.


..probably give it a go, gotta watch something in between episodes of Succession.


Oh, a liberal dystopia..... how edgy of them.....

Do you like Free Wargames?
http://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in gb
[MOD]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

.. so did anyone catch this ?

I've got it taped err.. recorded -- showing my age there ! -- but probably will not get a chance to watch it before the weekend.


Most reviews I've seen have been broadly positive.

The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
Arendt wrote about megalomaniacal leaders eager to believe that all failures can be denied or erased, and “mad enough to discard all limited and local interests—economic, national, human, military—in favor of a purely fictitious reality
 
   
Made in us
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






Southeastern PA, USA

I thought it was tremendous. It's going to 'trigger' some folks though, and probably on both sides of the aisle.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/23 19:36:52


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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Sitting on my queue. Haven't watched. Haven't heard any real buzz good or bad to motivate me to check it out.
   
Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

Watched it last night, seemed like a good setup. I think it's more a sequel to the comics rather than the movie but mostly right now it feels more like a cop drama. Hopefully that will change. Looks like it's basically a whole new generation of watchmen who moonlight as cops, we have the main trenchcoat girl, don johnson, fishnet veil face girl, silver head guy, red track suit guy... and a giant panda. Or maybe they were basically saying the watchmen have evolved into what the police are nowadays?

   
Made in us
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






Southeastern PA, USA

 Necros wrote:
Watched it last night, seemed like a good setup. I think it's more a sequel to the comics rather than the movie but mostly right now it feels more like a cop drama. Hopefully that will change. Looks like it's basically a whole new generation of watchmen who moonlight as cops, we have the main trenchcoat girl, don johnson, fishnet veil face girl, silver head guy, red track suit guy... and a giant panda. Or maybe they were basically saying the watchmen have evolved into what the police are nowadays?


Definitely a sequel to the comics as evidenced by all the squid stuff.

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Made in ca
Missionary On A Mission






Missed the first episode (have a game on Sundays) but Rogers has a whole on demand service for HBO when you get it so I was able to catch up on Tuesday.

On the one hand I felt like the actual elements of the present plot were lacking, with the actors feeling kind of flat and the police investigation kind of rushed, but that may be due to the world building stuff muscling them out with more interesting ideas and the urgent need to establish them firmly.

I usually commit giving a show like this the chance to win me over within the first three episodes, it hasn't done it yet but still could.

 Easy E wrote:
Oh, a liberal dystopia..... how edgy of them.....

I don't want to get political so I'll only say in brief that I actually like this aspect of the show. Redford evidently exploits whatever loopholes Nixon used to hold onto power and has been president for 30 years now, police are so tightly regulated an officer can die waiting for clearance to draw his side arm, and the reparations (which I didn't realize was a racial thing at the time of watching due to it being awkwardly brought up in a conversation about the attack that led to police wearing masks) appear to have completely shaken up the economic classes - but none of it solves anything: poverty isn't abolished, it just looks a different, democracy is essentially over until President Redford dies, the regulations don't stop someone from being scooped up based on a hunch and beaten to death if the people involved are willing to look the other way, and the fact that the truth about the squids is out doesn't matter because it was co-opted by white supremacists; the broader public won't even consider it out of principle.

It's all gone very wrong in very normal ways- which is much more in line with Watchmen then the version we see in Doomsday Clock, IMO.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/24 14:45:38


   
Made in us
Slaanesh Veteran Marine with Tentacles






Didn't really care much for it, but I'm hoping it's one of those shows that take a few episodes to hit it's stride. The White Supremacy angle feels very forced (Why does Rorschach inspire White Supremacy? Explained in spoiler below), several of the characters seem to suffer from idiot plot to make things happen(see below again), and while the cops do fascist things they are never wrong about their instincts. Pretty much all of this can be fixed by fleshing out a bit more backstory later though so I'm going to give it more time. The cinematography is amazing enough to deserve at least a second episode and it has huge potential depending on where the plot goes. A little concerned that it is by the same guy who directed "The Hunt."

Spoiler:

On Rorschach: Show SOMETHING explaining that he dropped his journal off at an alt right newspaper and not a regular one. Once that is made clear it makes sense how someone who wasn't really shown to be a racist can become the rallying symbol of white supremacy. Although I think/hope the Kavalry are going to be much less one dimensional OOOGA BOOGA KLANSMEN BAD than the pilot leads us to believe. Internal power struggles between racist sects and strictly anti-authoritarian sects would be much more interesting.
Why did the police chief, who is well aware of the dangers of being a policeman, leave his car unarmed, without contacting backup, while he was unescorted and simply freeze from the light. Especially since he seems to be the only cop without a mask. The cop who gets shot in the beginning was well aware that he was dealing with a potential terrorist cop-killer and he took his eyes off the car in front of him long enough for someone to put a mask on, procure a hidden SMG of some kind, step out of the car, and face the car to open fire without getting noticed? Detective Abar is surprised people know who she is when her restaurant is painfully obvious that it's a front and she's a former cop? These are some painfully incompetent police.
   
Made in ca
Missionary On A Mission






 DominayTrix wrote:
Spoiler:

On Rorschach: Show SOMETHING explaining that he dropped his journal off at an alt right newspaper and not a regular one. Once that is made clear it makes sense how someone who wasn't really shown to be a racist can become the rallying symbol of white supremacy.

If the show's not going to sit us down and explain the squids it's definitely not going to sit us down and explain the New Frontiersman - the comic was not subtle about their politics and how they contributed to Rorschach's opinion on people.

But that's an appropriate outcome for that character, I think. Rorschach was a self-proclaimed moral absolutist who wasn't self-aware enough to see how his own biases skewed his perspective. He sent his journal to the New Frontiersman because he believed they were the only ones telling the truth amid a vast media conspiracy - not because it was true, but because the New Frontiersman said so.

When he dies...
Spoiler:
he understands that at this point he can't save the millions that were sacrificed to save billions, but the lie could save the world from nuclear war. Rorschach can't allow that, he can't allow for the possibility that any lie, let alone one so horrible, could be allowed to stand, but Walter Kovacs can still, somehow, see the difference. Rorschach dies because Walter demands to be killed.


Thats my interpretation anyway, it's Watchmen after all.

And I see that the Kavalry taking up his iconography is appripriate: his journal ends up in the hands of other people who's opinions are warped by the same lies, and the truth of the conspiracy and its apocalyptic implications are lost on the wider world because of it. As a result, the man who argued there is only good and evil, black and white, is defeated again by the fact that real life is complicated.

   
Made in us
Slaanesh Veteran Marine with Tentacles






 Captain Joystick wrote:
 DominayTrix wrote:
Spoiler:

On Rorschach: Show SOMETHING explaining that he dropped his journal off at an alt right newspaper and not a regular one. Once that is made clear it makes sense how someone who wasn't really shown to be a racist can become the rallying symbol of white supremacy.

If the show's not going to sit us down and explain the squids it's definitely not going to sit us down and explain the New Frontiersman - the comic was not subtle about their politics and how they contributed to Rorschach's opinion on people.

But that's an appropriate outcome for that character, I think. Rorschach was a self-proclaimed moral absolutist who wasn't self-aware enough to see how his own biases skewed his perspective. He sent his journal to the New Frontiersman because he believed they were the only ones telling the truth amid a vast media conspiracy - not because it was true, but because the New Frontiersman said so.

When he dies...
Spoiler:
he understands that at this point he can't save the millions that were sacrificed to save billions, but the lie could save the world from nuclear war. Rorschach can't allow that, he can't allow for the possibility that any lie, let alone one so horrible, could be allowed to stand, but Walter Kovacs can still, somehow, see the difference. Rorschach dies because Walter demands to be killed.


Thats my interpretation anyway, it's Watchmen after all.

And I see that the Kavalry taking up his iconography is appripriate: his journal ends up in the hands of other people who's opinions are warped by the same lies, and the truth of the conspiracy and its apocalyptic implications are lost on the wider world because of it. As a result, the man who argued there is only good and evil, black and white, is defeated again by the fact that real life is complicated.

I agree. Most of my problem was coming from the movie->show without any knowledge about the comics other why there were squids. A few screens of text, a few clips of news reports, something ANYTHING would have eliminated a lot of the knee jerk responses. There's some interesting world building that makes it a lot more politically neutral as well. What did you think about the problems with idiot plot?
   
Made in ca
Missionary On A Mission






 DominayTrix wrote:
What did you think about the problems with idiot plot?

I agree with your assessment in broad strokes but I think I'm a little more forgiving on those specific cases.

The bit with the chief at the end was probably the most egregious but I might believe he was off-guard because of a combination of them suspecting it might have just been a few outliers instead of a full resurgence and the possibility that he's still buzzed from that party (he should also be in a body-cast, but whatever). I suspect that light is significant in some way though, trailers promise an incidious conspiracy and I think Looking Glass is going to factor in.

I figured the guy at the traffic stop put on his face and got the gun from somewhere in the truck and just lept out and opened fire, the cop was clearly trying to keep an eye on him while dealing with Panda but when the mechanism jams he gets critically distracted.

The thing about the bakery depends largely on how long ago White Night happened. Since her 'secret identity' is that she used to be a cop, got injured, and opted to retire from the force I could absolutely see her actually intending to open that bakery in a couple months.

But taken all together, yes. Most of the main plot is driven by multiple people making critical mistakes in a noticeably narrow space of time.

Also, side question - what is up with Veidt's servants? And why is Dr. Manhattan making that castle in the sand on Mars?

   
Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

I got the idea that the servants were fancy robots, and he has been trying to teach them to be more human-ish.

   
Made in us
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






Southeastern PA, USA

 Captain Joystick wrote:
 DominayTrix wrote:
What did you think about the problems with idiot plot?

I agree with your assessment in broad strokes but I think I'm a little more forgiving on those specific cases.

The bit with the chief at the end was probably the most egregious but I might believe he was off-guard because of a combination of them suspecting it might have just been a few outliers instead of a full resurgence and the possibility that he's still buzzed from that party (he should also be in a body-cast, but whatever). I suspect that light is significant in some way though, trailers promise an incidious conspiracy and I think Looking Glass is going to factor in.

I figured the guy at the traffic stop put on his face and got the gun from somewhere in the truck and just lept out and opened fire, the cop was clearly trying to keep an eye on him while dealing with Panda but when the mechanism jams he gets critically distracted.


I don't understand the beefs with these scenes. The chief is clearly shown to be drunk, and we don't know who it was that confronted him, what the nature of the encounter was, or who hung him up. It's pretty obvious there's more going on than meets the eye, considering the mysterious guy in the wheelchair next to the swinging body?

It's also painfully clear that the cop gets distracted for a couple seconds, long enough for the guy to hop out and fire. The cop is trying to take action quickly and gets agitated when Panda doesn't authorize the release fast enough. It's not carelessness that got him killed, it was the slow weapon authorization.

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Made in gb
[MOD]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

Sold enough to watch the next few episodes anyway.

Digged all the easter eggs dotted around the place.


I do think the fact this follows on from the comic book not the movie is going to cause some confusion.


... so... Irons.


IIRC paper said that Veidt was dead...

.. do you think he faked/pretended or is this forced on him ?

I too think the servants are AI/robots of some kind -- which explains the confusion/slip up with the horse shoe and the knife maybe ?

The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
Arendt wrote about megalomaniacal leaders eager to believe that all failures can be denied or erased, and “mad enough to discard all limited and local interests—economic, national, human, military—in favor of a purely fictitious reality
 
   
Made in gb
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets





Cardiff

Fantastic. The jump cuts mirroring the nine-panel format were fab. Cinematography stunning. Music pure Reznor. I felt excited and on edge throughout. It’s definitely a sequel to the comics, and the myriad Easter Eggs were great. The interrogation with the mirrored mask echoing Rorschach’s, fantastic. So sad to see the review bombing from the basement dwellers who find any talk of racism and white supremacy uncomfortable... that’s kind of the point. The show echoes today’s tensions in the same way the book echoed the nuclear paranoia of the 80s. That these same tensions are both an ugly current stain and a mirror of America’s not-so-distant past is meant to be uncomfortable.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Trustworthy Shas'vre





Leicester

 Captain Joystick wrote:
 DominayTrix wrote:
What did you think about the problems with idiot plot?
Also, side question - what is up with Veidt's servants? And why is Dr. Manhattan making that castle in the sand on Mars?


Given that Veidt is supposed to have just been declared dead, I think Dr Manhattan might have taken him away; whether that’s to protect the world from Veidt or Veidt from the world, interesting to see.

DS:80+S+GM+B+I+Pw40k08D+A++WD355R+T(M)DM+
 Zed wrote:
*All statements reflect my opinion at this moment. if some sort of pretty new model gets released (or if I change my mind at random) I reserve the right to jump on any bandwagon at will.
 
   
Made in gb
[MOD]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

https://www.hbo.com/peteypedia

..bonus materials !

more info and lots of trailers etc

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/10/26/watchmen-peteypedia-files-offer-new-info-on-veidts-fate-rorschachs-journal-more/

The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
Arendt wrote about megalomaniacal leaders eager to believe that all failures can be denied or erased, and “mad enough to discard all limited and local interests—economic, national, human, military—in favor of a purely fictitious reality
 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Trustworthy Shas'vre





Leicester

Nice alternate reality material, good find Red, thanks!

DS:80+S+GM+B+I+Pw40k08D+A++WD355R+T(M)DM+
 Zed wrote:
*All statements reflect my opinion at this moment. if some sort of pretty new model gets released (or if I change my mind at random) I reserve the right to jump on any bandwagon at will.
 
   
Made in gb
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets





Cardiff

Second episode was as good. Lindelof’s “more questions than answers” DNA is all over this! It’s tougher for my hasn’t-read-book, forgets-the-movie gf, but she’s still enjoying it despite not getting all the references.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
 
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