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BrianDavion wrote:
I dunno, as I said I could see GW giving Blood Angels a new Sanguinor model instead, do that combined with a "near primarch level" ability boost and people'll be fine with it.

Some might, but go look at the level of hate for Ultras after they became the “favored” chapter. Now imagine all the BA players wondering why the smurfs got their dead guy in stasis back, but they don’t get the face of their franchise back.

My Fantasy Armies were Tomb Kings and Bretonians. I still haven’t bought an AOS box or book yet. I even understood why they had to swap from fantasy to AOS for copyright stuff, but the screwjob I had to “enjoy” was enough to turn me off of Warhammer. I don’t think they can bring back a substitute, and I do t think they can magic wand him back to live. They have to find a middle ground where he’s him - having an equal value footing in a Primarch War Council with Guilliman, Johnson, and Russ - but the death still happened and meant something AND explaining why whatever happened took so long and wasn’t known about.

Have to keep both the game and the fluff in mind. Game wise, they’ll sell models, and keep all the marine books/armies moving if they’re all relatively equal. Fluff equality is part of that. A poor man’s counts-as substitute Primarch still only counts as a poor man’s substitute for a Primarch.

The Primarch(s) already fighting against the Eccliarchy’s sorcery and magic of an Imperial Divinity is going to do what with a magic voice of their brother possessing a space marine from beyond the grave at a family reunion to defend Armageddon - for example - in the fourth? Fifth? War for Armageddon to defend it from Ghazgull and Angron in the next 40k campaign book.

Breton wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I dunno, as I said I could see GW giving Blood Angels a new Sanguinor model instead, do that combined with a "near primarch level" ability boost and people'll be fine with it.

Some might, but go look at the level of hate for Ultras after they became the “favored” chapter. Now imagine all the BA players wondering why the smurfs got their dead guy in stasis back, but they don’t get the face of their franchise back.
.

thing is most Blood Angel fans I know don't WANT Sanguinius back, they belive (and they've got a point) it would drasticly hurt the Blood Angels lore. and destroy what makes them special and intreasting

BrianDavion wrote:



thing is most Blood Angel fans I know don't WANT Sanguinius back, they belive (and they've got a point) it would drasticly hurt the Blood Angels lore. and destroy what makes them special and intreasting

Few people want Sanguinius back for the sake of having Sanguinius back.

Fantasy went through a hard reboot into AoS - called The End Times. Russ and Johnson are only prophesied to return during the same end times/darkest hour scenario. Between my suspicions this edition is little more than a Beta Test for Primaris, and the long reticence to put Primarchs into the game a prediction for an intellectual property reboot for 40K that then kills off the Primarchs they just brought back isn't that hard to make. That's the business case. Fluff-wise, I think the 13th Black Crusade was also part of an End Times style prophesy for 40K. Johnson and Russ returning certainly is, if/when they do. Guilliman and Johnson both deferred to Sanguinius in the Imperium Secundus. How many times have you seen a BL book call Sanguinius most like the Emperor? Or most like the Emperor before the Dark Imperium novel tarnished a little of that polish talking about Guilliman's conference with the Emperor, at least.

Sanguinius's legion has always had the Red Thirst. The Black Rage theoretically started immediately upon his death on the walls of the Palace. Primaris Marines supposedly don't get the Red Thirst, but do they get the Black Rage? When Magnus was defeated by Russ, his soul shattered into shards. Is the Black Rage Sanguinius' soul being spread amongst his gene-children? Clone up a body, rip off Final Fantasy VII and watch all the Blood Angels 1.0 Marines zombie walk up to it chanting Sepher.. I mean Sanguinius, as a Black Rage Soul shard erupts from their chest into the clone... The Black Crusade takes Terra, finally kills the Emperor, multiple Primarchs fall, Sanguinius leads the rest of the Imperium from the other side of the Palace in a counter attack, defeats the Black Crusade, has to take the Emperor's place on the Golden Throne, which he can do now after being buffed up by generations and generations of Black Rage shards growing and multiplying in power. And now we're in Warhammer 40K Age of Sanguinius. Fun for GW writers who love the nebulousity of Flyers and models that fly, now get to have Warhammer AOS and Warhammer 40K AoS. It lets them start writing off large numbers of Space Marine 1.0's for the 2.0 Primaris. Time line wise, we're just into 8th edition. If they like where Primaris are now, we'll see close combat Primaris in 9th ed codex, and the events described above will be the campaign events. First one being the return of Russ and Johnson, second one being the return of Sanguinius/end of 40K and 10th Ed will be WH:40K AoS 1st Ed

absurd, AoS was created because GW needed to make it;'s fantasy franchise distinct and stand alone. 40k already does so

There is a slim chance BA would get Sanguinius.
1%.
It throws a lot of anger and questions and all sorts up.

75% they bring some kind of Sanguinor, daemon, spirit of, blah blah.

Then a 24% of nothing.


Then SW and DA books are just 75/25.

I think it’s super likely that Eventually yes they’ll come back.
And very likely it will be as evenly spread as possible (so it won’t just be Guilliman, Corax and Vulcan for instance, as then the SM book is treated to everything).
However, though Breton I think you’re in the right track with each book getting one. I can quite agree that BA just may not get one (it’s doing Lion+Russ with a bit of whining and less money, vs doing none of them and lots of whining and a lot less money.)


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BrianDavion wrote:
absurd, AoS was created because GW needed to make it;'s fantasy franchise distinct and stand alone. 40k already does so

Also this.
We aren’t going back to the whole will GW pull a Fantasy End Times on 40k are we..

We already have story advancement instead.
Which if the right people were in the upper echelons of GW at the time, could have been a route for fantasy.
Creating an AoS like game/world/setting, through keeping the old world but changing it to include and expand.
(Basically I think they learned from their mistakes vs. Upsetting fan base - though are happily through it and on the other side with a much improved result (in their eyes not all others necessarily)).

Danny76 wrote:
There is a slim chance BA would get Sanguinius.
1%.
It throws a lot of anger and questions and all sorts up.

A dead guy in stasis was just killed and brought back to life by the new Eldar cult with foreshadowing as subtle as a Thunderhammer and Stormshield about how they plan to fulfill the prophecy about the death of the Eldar and still keep their models/armies/race in the game. Which question would you have about regrowing/cloning a dead Primarch continually held up as the emotional/spiritual aspect of the Emperor (with each Primarch being some quality/aspect of the Emperor personified) with an infamous psychic event at the moment of his death coming back to life?

I think it’s super likely that Eventually yes they’ll come back.
And very likely it will be as evenly spread as possible (so it won’t just be Guilliman, Corax and Vulcan for instance, as then the SM book is treated to everything).
However, though Breton I think you’re in the right track with each book getting one. I can quite agree that BA just may not get one (it’s doing Lion+Russ with a bit of whining and less money, vs doing none of them and lots of whining and a lot less money.)

I've been playing 40K since 2nd Ed. I can remember when Azrael caused Terror, and gave a bubble to everyone in 6 inches. Dante caused Terror, had a giant move, and I think the only Melta Pistol in the game. And Marneus Calgar caused... fear. Blood Angels got Veteran Vanguards. I forget what DA got, I think Veteran Devastators, and Ultras got... Veteran Tac Squads. Want to guess which chapters were popular, and which one wasn't? Some older BA players are probably still miffed about that time they got their codex in a White Dwarf. Now you can argue GW isn't this smart, but I suspect you have to treat each army, especially the similar ones like the various Marines, like kids at Christmas. It's got to be as equal as possible. And Blood Angel Captain Magic Mike infused with ghost wings and Sanguinius' blessing isn't equal when he sits down with Russ, Guilliman, Johnson, and (Insert Loyalist to balance the 5 Chaos vs 5 Loyalist - probably Dorn due to the number of popular/fleshed-out of successor chapters- Lysander, Kantor, Helbrecht) for a council of war.

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BrianDavion wrote:
absurd, AoS was created because GW needed to make it;'s fantasy franchise distinct and stand alone. 40k already does so

Also this.
We aren’t going back to the whole will GW pull a Fantasy End Times on 40k are we..

I'm not sure a game with good and bad pointy ears known for swords and crew served heavy weapons just one is in space and one is on the ground and the forces of Chaos gods Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh lead by a former hero of man who fell to the Ruinous powers and his name is A_____n The _______ is all that distinct and stand alone.

We already have story advancement instead.
Which if the right people were in the upper echelons of GW at the time, could have been a route for fantasy.
Creating an AoS like game/world/setting, through keeping the old world but changing it to include and expand.
(Basically I think they learned from their mistakes vs. Upsetting fan base - though are happily through it and on the other side with a much improved result (in their eyes not all others necessarily)).

They changed the names to Adeptus Astartes, Aeldari, Drukhari, Astra Militarum, etc. but how many are still calling them Space Marines, Eldar, and IG? What are they going to do with Space Marines 1.0 vs the 2.0 Primaris? Will the older Marines go extinct, model and fluff wise? Do I think they'll completely kill off the world and go to an entirely new name for everything? Nah. Do I think they're going to have an End Times type of event where multiple races/armies/factions are expanded, trimmed, merged, and killed off? Yeah. There's a theme going on right now in 40K. One must die in order to be reborn. It was introduced with Ynnari, we saw it in Guilliman, we're probably watching it in Primaris Marines right now. I have pretty much the entire Ultramarine's 2nd Company. From Sicarius to the 10th Battle Brother of the 10th Devastator Squad. Tack on about a half of the first company. It's going to be REALLY painful when/if Space Marines 1.0 goes away. They have to do something to rebalance Marines against MEQ+ and horde armies, and they won't leave the D6 system. One option is Primaris replacing 1.0's. Another is to jack points costs through the roof so we're fighting 20,000 point battles making Sisters 100 Space Marines are 110 points then 125 for a Necron and 150 a Terminator. GW appears to be going Primaris (and/or Power Level) rather than factoring points by 10 or 100 to get more room to cost the slight-but-adds-up differences between all the 3+ save BS4 with their unique flavor twist armies.

But the players aren't going to be willing to give up the points system, or their previously owned models any easier than they did the names Space Marines, Guard, and so on - if they want to get rid of the 1.0 Marines they'll have to do something End Times'ish. - I was being facetious when I suggested it would be Warhammer 40K, Age of Sanguinius. They won't go that far, but I do expect they will do a major restructring and fluff advance as they adjust any armies that can't play the new way. And realize we're talking about Marines here because I was wondering what others expected from Primarchs, but its not just Marines that are going to get the adjustment. With the dedication they have to the emphasis on Objective based victory points over combat based victory points too many armies are funneled into race across the board close combat or stand still static gun line, because their units/lists were built in the combat/casualty based system. They want "maneuver warfare", but they haven't done it yet. Objective VP's are too random at present. The gun lines don't move, at best they just sacrifice a deep strike to try and two-bird-one-stone an objective and trade a cheap plasma squad for an expensive tank. At least looking at many of the battle report videos on YouTube. They've got some rules to tweak, but mostly some army lists to reforge for the new emphasis.

I suspect we'll never see all the Primarchs, but I wouldn't be surprised to see some of the Traitor Primarchs at some point. Most likely of all however I think would be Leman Russ, he seems to have been tailor-written for a return at some point, same with Guilliman.

 Vaktathi wrote:
I suspect we'll never see all the Primarchs, but I wouldn't be surprised to see some of the Traitor Primarchs at some point. Most likely of all however I think would be Leman Russ, he seems to have been tailor-written for a return at some point, same with Guilliman.

Russ, Johnson, and Vulkhan have all been written for a "definite" return. Russ has a return for the Wolf Time prophecy, Johnson is sleeping in the Rock waiting to return to the Dark Angels during their Darkest Hour or some such. Vulkhan comes back when He'stan finds the last relic. Unless Salamanders iconography packs and models from FW and GW sell more than Imperial/Crimson Fists and Black Templar I doubt we'll see Vulkhan though - we'll see Dorn.

Corax, Khan, and Dorn have been written with the potential to return. Corax is out and about on a one man crusade. Khan is lost in the webway chasing Dark Eldar. Last I checked there's a webway gate on Ultramar, Terra and potentially the moon for Gulliman's new friends to drop Khan off at. Dorn is presumed dead based off of retconned history and some hand bones. Lets all say a prayer if/when they do bring Dorn back he hasn't grafted a giant Chain sword onto his wrist and started calling himself Ash.

On the Traitor side
We already have Magnus and Mortarion in the last two campaigns.

Angron's fluff is more subtle than the foreshadowing of his return. They've already mentioned in BL books Angron is.. unhappy. Guilliman is back, but he was too busy in some nefarious plot he couldn't postpone to come out and play with his brother. Not exactly difficult to figure out that means they wanted to do Nurgle/Mortarion first. I'm going to be a little disappointed if Angron ends up as another Guilliman Antagonist. I'd far prefer to see him go stomping around Armageddon again to draw him out - which would also give the orks, and Astra Militarum + Yarrick a chance for a model update and some screen time more valuable than charnel fodder or MacGuffin to summon the demon roles - Then have Johnson and Russ show up in a surprise twist which is what throws Angron off his game enough for the Imperium to pull out the win. The older books used to be far kinder to the non-Space Marine characters. Guard used to be able to be heroes, you used to have a side plot or plots that sounded an awful lot like a specialist game like Necromunda, or Kill Teams. A return to some of that would also be nice, the world is pretty deep, and they started floating on the surface lately.

If Dorn is the fifth loyalist, Perturabo makes for a great, if predictable, matchup. I imagine we'd see at least one new Codex out of it as Sons of Dorn. A Codex Iron Warriors wouldn't break my heart. Though the price might. The other option besides Perturabo is Lorgar- which also makes for a decent story line... the guy who literally wrote the book on worshiping Chaos vs the guy who defended Terra - plus there's some great Black Templars/Sisters/Ecclesiarchy cross-over appeal especially with Sisters/Ecclesiarchy going to be (relatively) fresh off new models, and codex.

Fulgrim might be one of the furthest out. I remember an Ork putting Guilliman in the stasis field not Fulgrim but that's the history we've got now so he was Guilliman's last opponent before resurrecting, plus they're redoing Slaaneshi models right now. If they were going to pop Fulgrim out with this set of realeases he would have been in Vigilus Ablaze, or Vigilus would have been a three book set.

I'm not sure a game with good and bad pointy ears known for swords and crew served heavy weapons just one is in space and one is on the ground and the forces of Chaos gods Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh lead by a former hero of man who fell to the Ruinous powers and his name is A_____n The _______ is all that distinct and stand alone.

except it is, 40k stands distinct, people reckongize it immediatly, know what it is, it's not lsot in a sea of similer stuff like the Old World was. the closest thing to 40k is proably star wars,and they don't really have much in common, especially VISUALLY. (the visual aestetic is proably the most important one)

BrianDavion wrote:

I'm not sure a game with good and bad pointy ears known for swords and crew served heavy weapons just one is in space and one is on the ground and the forces of Chaos gods Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh lead by a former hero of man who fell to the Ruinous powers and his name is A_____n The _______ is all that distinct and stand alone.

except it is, 40k stands distinct, people reckongize it immediatly, know what it is, it's not lsot in a sea of similer stuff like the Old World was. the closest thing to 40k is proably star wars,and they don't really have much in common, especially VISUALLY. (the visual aestetic is proably the most important one)

The closest thing to 40k is Starship Troopers. GW literally stole all of their original IP from it. I mean the book, the movie was fun but totally different

 Brotherjulian wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

I'm not sure a game with good and bad pointy ears known for swords and crew served heavy weapons just one is in space and one is on the ground and the forces of Chaos gods Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh lead by a former hero of man who fell to the Ruinous powers and his name is A_____n The _______ is all that distinct and stand alone.

except it is, 40k stands distinct, people reckongize it immediatly, know what it is, it's not lsot in a sea of similer stuff like the Old World was. the closest thing to 40k is proably star wars,and they don't really have much in common, especially VISUALLY. (the visual aestetic is proably the most important one)

The closest thing to 40k is Starship Troopers. GW literally stole all of their original IP from it. I mean the book, the movie was fun but totally different

err no, SST is waaaaaaaaaaay far from 40k.

about all they have in common is power armor, and "evil alien bugs"

thats not a lot.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Brotherjulian wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

I'm not sure a game with good and bad pointy ears known for swords and crew served heavy weapons just one is in space and one is on the ground and the forces of Chaos gods Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh lead by a former hero of man who fell to the Ruinous powers and his name is A_____n The _______ is all that distinct and stand alone.

except it is, 40k stands distinct, people reckongize it immediatly, know what it is, it's not lsot in a sea of similer stuff like the Old World was. the closest thing to 40k is proably star wars,and they don't really have much in common, especially VISUALLY. (the visual aestetic is proably the most important one)

The closest thing to 40k is Starship Troopers. GW literally stole all of their original IP from it. I mean the book, the movie was fun but totally different

err no, SST is waaaaaaaaaaay far from 40k.

about all they have in common is power armor, and "evil alien bugs"

thats not a lot.

and Phsykers, and the Navy/Guard relationship, and the Inquisition/Navy/Guard relationship.
Really the only difference between old 40k and SST is someone from GW sat around and said what if there were marines and they are beefcakes with better armor? Lets add that to the mix.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Brotherjulian wrote:

The closest thing to 40k is Starship Troopers. GW literally stole all of their original IP from it. I mean the book, the movie was fun but totally different

err no, SST is waaaaaaaaaaay far from 40k.

about all they have in common is power armor, and "evil alien bugs".

GW has "borrowed" IP from all over the place:

Nids: Starship Troop and Aliens
Tau: Gundam
The God-Emperor: Dune
Chaos: Michael Moorcock's Eternal Champion novels (right down to mutation and beastmen)
Necrons: Terminator meets Cthulhu
Eldar: Space Elves
Dark Eldar: Melnibone in space
Orks: Space Orcs

I am sure there are plenty more and SST is just one tiny snippet.

 Karhedron wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Brotherjulian wrote:

The closest thing to 40k is Starship Troopers. GW literally stole all of their original IP from it. I mean the book, the movie was fun but totally different

err no, SST is waaaaaaaaaaay far from 40k.

about all they have in common is power armor, and "evil alien bugs".

GW has "borrowed" IP from all over the place:

Nids: Starship Troop and Aliens
Tau: Gundam
The God-Emperor: Dune
Chaos: Michael Moorcock's Eternal Champion novels (right down to mutation and beastmen)
Necrons: Terminator meets Cthulhu
Eldar: Space Elves
Dark Eldar: Melnibone in space
Orks: Space Orcs

I am sure there are plenty more and SST is just one tiny snippet.

course they have, most fiction tends to borrow from the past. although I'll contest with claiming Tau copy from Gundam. and rather contend that Tau suits ape the general look of japanese mecha. nothing about them says Gundam SPECIFICLY.

What are the chances a couple Primarchs switch sides?

Early on in 8th edition, there was a rumor one loyalist primarch would go chaos, and one chaos primarch would switch back to Team Imperium. What are the chances either of these things happen?

calista241 wrote:
What are the chances a couple Primarchs switch sides?

Early on in 8th edition, there was a rumor one loyalist primarch would go chaos, and one chaos primarch would switch back to Team Imperium. What are the chances either of these things happen?

almost nil IMHO GW'd piss off a lot of people

Lorgar to loyalist, and Khan or russ to chaos, yeah, sounds like a good trade off.

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Lorgar to loyalist, and Khan or russ to chaos, yeah, sounds like a good trade off.

except that'll royally cheese off space wolf, word bearer and world eater fans

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Lorgar to loyalist, and Khan or russ to chaos, yeah, sounds like a good trade off.

I'm personally a fan of the cloned Fulgrim coming back as a loyalist, as you'd get a cool redemption arc and some interesting interactions with the Imperium and himself. Imagine the conflict of coming to terms with his previous self that went evil, and then trying to convince Guiliman and the Imperium his intentions are pure. If written well I would love to see this as it's an organic way to add a previously evil primarch to the loyalist side while still having the evil Fulgrim. I think that potential arc would be amazing but that's just me.


Back to the Lorgar as loyalist- That would be really cool and create some serious conflicts when it comes to interactions (Guilliman and Lorgar in the same room would be just a tad awkward I bet) but present problems. You could play Lorgar is actually evil and seeks to corrupt half the Imperium through his high charisma and playing off Guiliman's weaknesses, otherwise I have a hard time seeing him being genuinely good after all that has happened without some previous series going into that transformation of him realizing just what chaos entails.

Realisitcally, I'd bet the Lion as the next obvious candidate since he's confirmed as being around, next with the Khan and Russ since they are MIA but rumors persist of them living. Then Dorn and Vulkan since they likely are dead but we don't have a body to confirm it. Lastly Sanguinus because there's some spirit thing on the Vengeful Spirit which might lead to some future shenanigans but not likely. Then Manus is last because obvious reasons, though with warpery about I wouldn't be that shocked if it happened eventually.

For Chaos primarchs pretty much all but Horus can appear since they in the fluff do exist and do things. Alpharius/Omegon and Curze being exceptions but their are ways for both to come back if an author/GW wanted to go that route (one being Curze's Crown IRRC having some sort of soul thing and the Alpha Legion gene shenanigans as the two vehicles for them but we'll see).

BrianDavion wrote:

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Lorgar to loyalist, and Khan or russ to chaos, yeah, sounds like a good trade off.

except that'll royally cheese off space wolf, word bearer and world eater fans

Why world eater? You mean white scars?

Shouldn't Vulkan be knocking about somewhere? Being a Perpetual and all? Or did The Great Beast succeed where Conrad Kurze failed?

You don't really need a balance of Primarchs on either side. The Daemon Primarchs, while mighty, have bound themselves to Chaos and have that a distinct weakness as well as strength. See Angron being banished on Armageddon.

 Skinflint Games wrote:
Shouldn't Vulkan be knocking about somewhere? Being a Perpetual and all? Or did The Great Beast succeed where Conrad Kurze failed?

We don't really know. The general assumption is that he respawned and resumed his duty guarding the portal leading to the Golden Throne but I have not seen it confirmed anywhere. We know from the HH novels that Perpetuals can be truly slain by massive amounts of psychic power (the Fulgarite is a crystalised shard of the Emperor's power). It is possible the massive detonation of Waaagh energy had the same effect and permanently killed him but I doubt it. I think GW will not retrospectively reveal Vulkan to be fully dead now that they have started bringing Primarchs back.


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calista241 wrote:
What are the chances a couple Primarchs switch sides?

Early on in 8th edition, there was a rumor one loyalist primarch would go chaos, and one chaos primarch would switch back to Team Imperium. What are the chances either of these things happen?

Slim but not impossible. My hunch is that the "Loyalist going to Chaos" refers to Corax who has spent the last 9000 years in the Eye hunting traitors. The short story "Shadows of the Past" shows that he has developed some interesting new abilities and has embraced his identity as a warp-being. Even if he is still technically loyal to the Imperium, he has powered up to the point that he can now go toe-to-toe with the Daemon Primarchs.

As for one of the Traitors repenting, that seems unlikely at this point. Magnus might have wanted to at some point but he lost most of his most noble qualities when his soul was shattered. His nobility, humility and self restraint went into making Ianus. The present-day Magnus is all his arrogance, hunger for knowledge and power and desire to avenge himself unfettered by any of his former positive qualities. Angron is too busy killing to even consider repentence. Fulgrim and Mortarion seem content to serve their respective gods. We haven't seen Perturabo so no info.

Omegon (if he is still alive) would be an interesting possibility since he never actually wanted Chaos to win and was always trying to play the long game. Clone-Fulgrim is another possibility although a less interesting one since from his PoV, he has no sins to atone for.

If not Omegon then I'd go for Angron. Some how he de-nails, exorcises Khorne and becomes the Primarch he was always intended to be but never previously had the chance to.

I’d actually enjoy seeing Curze having faked his own death, hide in the shadows, and do a redemption arc that actually has him basically become Batman on the field on the side of the Imperium.

Curze is dead, Horus is dead, Sang is dead along with Fenrus. Curze has a whole novel series dealing with his legion dealing with his death.

Retconing any of that for a cheap thrill and a way to sell a second primarch model cheapens the consequences of death with in the setting. If anything I wouldn't mind a few more primarchs on both sides of the coin dying. 40k's main appeal to me is that the time of gods and legends are over and the rest of us need to pick the pieces (at least for humans ).

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Curze is dead, Horus is dead, Sang is dead along with Fenrus. Curze has a whole novel series dealing with his legion dealing with his death.

Retconing any of that for a cheap thrill and a way to sell a second primarch model cheapens the consequences of death with in the setting. If anything I wouldn't mind a few more primarchs on both sides of the coin dying. 40k's main appeal to me is that the time of gods and legends are over and the rest of us need to pick the pieces (at least for humans ).

The idea of maintaining a theme is already gone. There's nothing stopping GW hurling more Ferrus, Sanguinius and Curze at us.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
We should get each Daemon one. They’re kicking around. Expect Lorgar, Perturabo, Fulgrim and Angron at some point soon. Alpharius possibly, but would annoy people. No Horus, no Curze.

Loyalists are tougher; most went missing or were killed. Sanguinious returning would piss off a large chunk of the 40k player base (more than Guilliman did). The Lion, Were-Russ, Khan and Vulkan could conceivably come back, and if the retcon for Dorn works, he can come back too without a hand (bionics!) No Ferrus, no Sanguinious. Corax...I don’t remember his deal. Maybe?

Oooor, make Cruze and make money?

Seriously, feth the flipping story. I want my models!


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pm713 wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Curze is dead, Horus is dead, Sang is dead along with Fenrus. Curze has a whole novel series dealing with his legion dealing with his death.

Retconing any of that for a cheap thrill and a way to sell a second primarch model cheapens the consequences of death with in the setting. If anything I wouldn't mind a few more primarchs on both sides of the coin dying. 40k's main appeal to me is that the time of gods and legends are over and the rest of us need to pick the pieces (at least for humans ).

The idea of maintaining a theme is already gone. There's nothing stopping GW hurling more Ferrus, Sanguinius and Curze at us.

Yes! Retcon all the old stuff and give us HH 2: Galactic bogaloo



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calista241 wrote:
What are the chances a couple Primarchs switch sides?

Early on in 8th edition, there was a rumor one loyalist primarch would go chaos, and one chaos primarch would switch back to Team Imperium. What are the chances either of these things happen?

I think this would be a great idea. A good way to weave such a story would be that segments of the Alpha Legion went pro-horus, but not the whole chapter. Meanwhile everyone's favorite Loyalists actually died on Caliban, and for 10K Years traitors have laid in waiting. The Fallen aren't chaos worshipers, though they are tainted, but the last remnants of the loyalist Dark Angles from before the heresy. The Alpha Legion is their antithesis.


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HoundsofDemos wrote:
Curze is dead, Horus is dead, Sang is dead along with Fenrus. Curze has a whole novel series dealing with his legion dealing with his death.

Retconing any of that for a cheap thrill and a way to sell a second primarch model cheapens the consequences of death with in the setting. If anything I wouldn't mind a few more primarchs on both sides of the coin dying. 40k's main appeal to me is that the time of gods and legends are over and the rest of us need to pick the pieces (at least for humans ).

You talk as if this games story is important.

It isn't. It's cheap fiction.

Bring back primarchs = $$$$ doesn't matter how many neck beards get mad about it in the process.

 Togusa wrote:


Bring back primarchs = $$$$ doesn't matter how many neck beards get mad about it in the process.

And with that single word you have lost the argument. If you can do nothing more than sling what is the nerd equivalent of Godwin's law at him then why should we even bother trying to converse with you?

has there ever been a solid explanation for the 2nd and 11th primarch?