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 quickfuze wrote:
Because termites exist

This is the objectively* correct answer.




*used ironically so don’t shoot me, but quickfuze is very very right and I looooove my Termite.

dead babies shouldnt count towards troop capacity.


I wouldnt mind if the stats were:

M 0 / S 3 / T4 / W4 / A 3 / WS 6 / BS 4

Lightning Deployment - With advanced augur telemetry, the Astartes Drop Pod is capable of high precision descents from orbit.
Models with this rule may only be deployed T2 and more than 6" away from table edge and any enemy units irrespective of original deployment zones(9" if character).

Meteoric shockwave - Due to the speed which the Drop Pod makes planetfall shockwave are sent rippling through terrain.
When placing a model, roll a D6 for each model within 6" of the Drop Pod, on a 5+ that model suffers D3 Mortal Wounds.

Once deployed this model is considered to be immobile and can only target the nearest enemy unit during the shooting phase and may shoot at models that are within 1".

Explodes(normal rules)

^I dislike the physics implied in "Meteoric Shockwave". If the Pod impact is enough to inflict MW on nearby units, what is it doing to the guys inside?

What I love about drop pods comes almost entirely from the Dawn of War videogame.

Being able to drop a squad of something into the thick of it right onto someone's head was fantastic. That type of disruption was super fun, and then out comes a squad of bolter wielding badasses spittin' death everywhere.

Too bad the tabletop version in 8th is nothing like that.

If I had my way, I would allow them to drop anywhere as long as they're not within 1'' of the enemy, come with a mortal wound mechanic for units within 6'' of it, require everybody to disembark but unable to move, and allow units to shoot at targets in combat with the pod.

Then just start limiting the units that can use them to avoid any of the outliers being too powerful.

I would rather Drop Pods be universally available to Marine Infantry units, and not come with rules representing hard impacts or landing on people. If it can crater the ground enough to knock people back on landing, it will liquefy the guys inside.

I think that a rapid-insertion mechanism would be excellent, to bring troops onto the battlefield when and where they're needed as reinforcements.

Reducing the minimum safe distances is a good start, but runs into the problem of the sheer size of the Drop Pod, which is way larger than it should be as a model.

Charging from the drop pod doesn't sound like a problem, but it's exclusive with turn 1 arrival capability I think for the sake of balance. I don't think T1 arrival is as useful as close arrival, so possibly "land more than 1" from enemy models, disembarked models must stay 1" from enemy models, but may charge.

They are just awful by every metric. Tied with assault marines for worst unit in the codex...

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
I would rather Drop Pods be universally available to Marine Infantry units, and not come with rules representing hard impacts or landing on people. If it can crater the ground enough to knock people back on landing, it will liquefy the guys inside.

I think that a rapid-insertion mechanism would be excellent, to bring troops onto the battlefield when and where they're needed as reinforcements.

Reducing the minimum safe distances is a good start, but runs into the problem of the sheer size of the Drop Pod, which is way larger than it should be as a model.

Charging from the drop pod doesn't sound like a problem, but it's exclusive with turn 1 arrival capability I think for the sake of balance. I don't think T1 arrival is as useful as close arrival, so possibly "land more than 1" from enemy models, disembarked models must stay 1" from enemy models, but may charge.

The handwavium argument is that existing imperial tech such as a stasis field could protect the contents from any impact so long as the pod itself survived - but I agree that the drop pod needs to be a superior way of deploying rather than a weaponised device.

The simplest solution is that the pod is a little bit cheaper, and itself is restricted to the usual deepstrike restrictions, but has a unique ability to disembark units without restriction on arrival (like the pre-nerf Valkyrie).

Insularum wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
I would rather Drop Pods be universally available to Marine Infantry units, and not come with rules representing hard impacts or landing on people. If it can crater the ground enough to knock people back on landing, it will liquefy the guys inside.

I think that a rapid-insertion mechanism would be excellent, to bring troops onto the battlefield when and where they're needed as reinforcements.

Reducing the minimum safe distances is a good start, but runs into the problem of the sheer size of the Drop Pod, which is way larger than it should be as a model.

Charging from the drop pod doesn't sound like a problem, but it's exclusive with turn 1 arrival capability I think for the sake of balance. I don't think T1 arrival is as useful as close arrival, so possibly "land more than 1" from enemy models, disembarked models must stay 1" from enemy models, but may charge.

The handwavium argument is that existing imperial tech such as a stasis field could protect the contents from any impact so long as the pod itself survived - but I agree that the drop pod needs to be a superior way of deploying rather than a weaponised device.

The simplest solution is that the pod is a little bit cheaper, and itself is restricted to the usual deepstrike restrictions, but has a unique ability to disembark units without restriction on arrival (like the pre-nerf Valkyrie).

That's a decent idea. I kind of like this one, since a DP would facilitate a 3" charge on arrival.

However. I also like the idea of reduced restrictions for the pod itself better, since that gives it a unique ability to land within an otherwise screened-by-18" area, which is better and presents a unique deployment option for marines to set a Pod apart from stratagems and native deep-strike abilities.

 Insectum7 wrote:
^I dislike the physics implied in "Meteoric Shockwave". If the Pod impact is enough to inflict MW on nearby units, what is it doing to the guys inside?

Nothing because it has some kind of protection/ cushioning system?


But to be honest I believe Drop Pods should inflict MW because they should land ON TOP of enemy infantry. And put it 3" or something like that of distance from the impacted unit.

Do you remember this old codex where drop pods were just a deepstrike rule for units for special missions inside the codex ? Ah the gold old days where we didn't have to buy stuff from the background...
The main issue with the drop pods is the new stupid deep strike rule. The old one was soooo much better, so much more flexible.
But I like the ideas of the 1st page, specially the stratagem one and the 3" instead of 9" one

 Galas wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
^I dislike the physics implied in "Meteoric Shockwave". If the Pod impact is enough to inflict MW on nearby units, what is it doing to the guys inside?

Nothing because it has some kind of protection/ cushioning system?


But to be honest I believe Drop Pods should inflict MW because they should land ON TOP of enemy infantry. And put it 3" or something like that of distance from the impacted unit.

The Imperium has access to "inertial dampeners" to protect from such impacts. The Caestus assault ram uses them to allow the thing to ram a ship at full speed without pulping the occupants. I can easily see the drop pod (and boarding torpedoes) using the same technology.

They were grossly undercosted in previous editions and now they are an average vehicle.

They do need a revamp, but as delivery options for infantry etc not as a weapon.

Allow them to deploy at least 9" from the enemy, then models can disembark so their base is within 3" of the droppod hull(doors are not hull for drop pods to prevent doors up/down nonsene)

Drop pod assault- half your drop pods (round down) can arrive turn 1, the remaining can arrive turn 2 or later. Any drop pods that do not arrive by turn 3 count as destroyed along with any embarked units.

Immobile- drop pods cannot score, hold or contest objectives. Drop pods cannot move once landed, if a rule causes it to move it is destroyed.

50ppm

 BaconCatBug wrote:
How about a 1CP/3CP stratagem that lets you subtract D6" from any deep strike effects rule, but the unit (and any disembarking unit) has to make the same roll as disembarking from a destroyed transport (roll a dice for each model, on a 1 a model of your choice is slain), with the 3CP option that lets you roll 2D6 and pick the highest?

If Space Marines were good, sure. As it stands, you could just shave the deep strike distance from 9'' to 6'' on the pods and I'm not sure I'd care too much. Even in the dark days of 17pts per Immortals, I'd still laugh at the poor sods playing Oldmarines. Now, if you mean across the entire army? That sounds a lot better.

We do know that drop pods are bad though, and need help. I think we call agree marines aren't OP, which is pretty nice to admit to. So making the pods better would only be a boon, cross them fingers everyone maybe, GW will listen ? I doubt it, but maybe.

I don't think they're that bad honestly. They're cheaper than a Rhino (not that its a significant compliment) and they deliver consistently by letting things deep strike on turn two.

I have played a few of them in my Blood Angels army to drop in a unit of vanguard vets or a couple of tactical squads and they were fine to sit on objectives.

They aren't super great or anything, but ten dudes in power armor sitting on an objective after you've cleared it does become a priority, and there is value in that. New bolter rule does help tactical marines after they have been dropped in, though obviously not a significant deal.

I tend to do PG, HB, and Combi-Plasma and its enough shooting to threaten light vehicles or reasonably tough infantry.

OK, how about something totally out of left field...

Strategem: Planetfall Reinforcements.
2CP

Pick a Space Marine Tactical Squad, Assault Squad (without jump packs) or a Devastator Squad and remove it from the battlefield. You can then deploy it in a Drop Pod anywhere on the battlefield, more than 9" away from enemy models, at it's starting strength. This cannot be done during the first battle round.

Or, failing that.....just drop the bloody points to 40.

AngryAngel80 wrote:
We do know that drop pods are bad though, and need help. I think we call agree marines aren't OP, which is pretty nice to admit to. So making the pods better would only be a boon, cross them fingers everyone maybe, GW will listen ? I doubt it, but maybe.

If there's going to be buffs for the Space Marines, Drop Pods are definitely way down on the list for "things I want buffed" though.

I'd probably lead my wishlist with the Vindicator, then the Predator, then the Whirlwind, then the Land Raiders. TBH, re-doing pods as a stratagem for 1CP to deep strike any infantry is how I would do it if I were doing it without the legacy of the unnecessarily huge, useless, and aesthetically boring drop pod model to account for. However, it exists, so it needs to have rules that will necessarily still leave it huge and useless [and to be fair, being aesthetically boring doesn't put it anywhere near the bottom of the Marine range, after all, Terminators and Centurions are things].

Honestly, every and any buff would be welcome. We shouldn't address them in terms of levels of need because we know GW don't really follow that for what needs to be touched on or some units wouldn't be just awful for such long stretches of time.

It's such an easy fix.

They can deep strike anywhere turn one, and they should be the one unit in the game that ignores the 9" rule. Maybe not so they can drop within an inch of an enemy, but maybe within 6" for that danger close feel. This would evidently have to and I'd be fine with it being extended to the unit inside also.

I don't think marines are really all that great or powerful enough to be super scary once deployed in this fashion for people either. They still are easy to shift, and they still can't bring all that amazing damage output with the way weapons work in 8th without some outrageous rolling, or significant investment in support characters that will most likely be blow to bits in the next turn along with the squad(s) you dropped.

TLDR You get good and reliable suicide units potentially, but they will be high cost.

EDIT: Primaries would be allowed to use them also.

What if they were treated as terror weapon they are in fluff? I like the suggestion DP needs a chance to deal mortal wounds (after all, it's several hundred tons of metal dropping from orbit activating what is pretty much a gigantic flamer just before impact) but really, the impact should have some sort of impact on enemy troops around. Maybe something like Reiver flashbangs, namely units within 12 inches of DP that just landed can't overwatch or advance, move at half speed, and when rolling morale checks they do 2d6, pick highest?

I've had some success with a dev squad of four multi meltas, storm bolter on the serjeant, four vets with storm bolters and chainswords, finally vulkan hestan to give the multi meltas the guilliman treatment.
It's hardly tournament winning but it's a decent amount of firepower and decent melee if I can get lucky with charge rolls.

Same reason a lot of stuff isn't worth taking. GW set up all these restrictions then gave a bunch of factions and units the ability to ignore those restrictions so you never really had a need for the units that have to follow the rules.

blaktoof wrote:
They were grossly undercosted in previous editions and now they are an average vehicle.

They do need a revamp, but as delivery options for infantry etc not as a weapon.

Allow them to deploy at least 9" from the enemy, then models can disembark so their base is within 3" of the droppod hull(doors are not hull for drop pods to prevent doors up/down nonsene)

Drop pod assault- half your drop pods (round down) can arrive turn 1, the remaining can arrive turn 2 or later. Any drop pods that do not arrive by turn 3 count as destroyed along with any embarked units.

Immobile- drop pods cannot score, hold or contest objectives. Drop pods cannot move once landed, if a rule causes it to move it is destroyed.

50ppm

I could support that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

blaktoof wrote:
They were grossly undercosted in previous editions and now they are an average vehicle.

They do need a revamp, but as delivery options for infantry etc not as a weapon.

Allow them to deploy at least 9" from the enemy, then models can disembark so their base is within 3" of the droppod hull(doors are not hull for drop pods to prevent doors up/down nonsene)

Drop pod assault- half your drop pods (round down) can arrive turn 1, the remaining can arrive turn 2 or later. Any drop pods that do not arrive by turn 3 count as destroyed along with any embarked units.

Immobile- drop pods cannot score, hold or contest objectives. Drop pods cannot move once landed, if a rule causes it to move it is destroyed.

50ppm

I could support that.

 Insectum7 wrote:
^I dislike the physics implied in "Meteoric Shockwave". If the Pod impact is enough to inflict MW on nearby units, what is it doing to the guys inside?

In fairness as I recall the reason only Marines get Drop Pods is because the impact turns everyone else into mush.

SYKOJAK wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

blaktoof wrote:
They were grossly undercosted in previous editions and now they are an average vehicle.

They do need a revamp, but as delivery options for infantry etc not as a weapon.

Allow them to deploy at least 9" from the enemy, then models can disembark so their base is within 3" of the droppod hull(doors are not hull for drop pods to prevent doors up/down nonsene)

Drop pod assault- half your drop pods (round down) can arrive turn 1, the remaining can arrive turn 2 or later. Any drop pods that do not arrive by turn 3 count as destroyed along with any embarked units.

Immobile- drop pods cannot score, hold or contest objectives. Drop pods cannot move once landed, if a rule causes it to move it is destroyed.

50ppm

I could support that.

These seem to be the best we could hope for. Either GW is releasing a primaris "drop podesque" something or other or they're paying for the sins of previous editions?

I think we need a Codex 2.0

So much in there is just very very underpowered.

zerosignal wrote:
I think we need a Codex 2.0

So much in there is just very very underpowered.

The underpowered is by design. Space Marines are intended for newer players, then when they see other, better armies they have to spend money on them too. GW knows Space Marines will sell regardless of their rules, so by making their rules bad they get to double charge the customer.

I don’t think GW made (Primaris) marines bad on purpose. I think they just play a very different game than the community does and they can’t comprehend that.

 fraser1191 wrote:

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

I can't wait until GW releases the Primaris Drop Pod, that does all of these things but has 9000 missile launchers and assault cannons and each door has it's own power fist that punches things in combat. Only Primaris Marines can ride in it because lowly squat marines are unworthy.

Primaris won't get a drop pod... They'll get a deep striking bunker!!!

The base drops in and some windows open and hell blasters annihilate 1 unit for 300pts

I would just settle for a really cool landspeeder transport. Something like...

12" move, 4+ armor save, Hard to Hit (-1 to hit it after it moves or advances) Open-topped (embarked units can shoot out of it at a -1 to hit) T6 @ 10 wounds, transport 10 Primaris Infantry (No aggressors or Inceptors).
Wargear: Hull mounted twin-Onslaught Cannon (can be upgraded to a primaris twin missile pod), pintle mounted twin heavy bolter (can be upgraded to a single plasma incinerator, or a Primaris Auto Frag Launcher). Cost ~90-100 points without upgrades.

Auto Frag Launcher: 18" Assault* S* AP* DMG*
-Incendiary Grenade: Assault 2d6 S3 AP-1 DMG 1 "Ignores cover"
-Shatter Grenade: Assault 3 S6 AP-2 DMG 2
-Toxic Grenade: Assault 2 S1 AP -1 DMG 1 "This weapon always wounds infantry on a 2+, any 6 to wound causes an additional Mortal wound. Wounds Vehicles on a 6+, no mortals to vehicles."

Twin-Missile Pod: 30" Assault 2 S8 AP-2 DMG d3
-Target Lock: When firing this weapon at any target within half the weapons range, you get +1 to hit and treat the DMG as 3 instead of rolling.


Simple, effective, and very handy. Something primaris really need, and not over designed like the repulsive.

Way back in 3rd Marines had a special rule called "drop pod assault", all it did was let the marines deepstrike. People used it, and GW said: "let's make a model and make the rule into a unit."; this has generally been a bad idea.

From the beginning there were no rules on open or closed doors. Open doors take up so much table-space and are part of a model, thus impassable terrain. Closed blocked off the guns los(back when that mattered).

As of now, we have a little over 7-man Tac squad priced unit with almost no firepower and is only good for blocking LOS for a round or 2.

I am glad that I have never bought one, especially since the 3 units that could really use it cannot embark: dreads, centurians, and aggressors. I have hated the drop pod unit/model(model is actually nice, but not for gameplay) since they came out and continue to fell justified in that hate.