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Breton wrote:
Probably Depending on Index Imperium1/2 and their handling of <CHAPTER> and how/if they kept DeathWatch from getting a Predator in the first place (in Index Imperium), good catch.

The FW indexes have different rules to the GW indexes.

Deathwatch can get twin-Lascannon Predators using the Deimos Pattern Relic Predator entry in Imperial Armour: Index: Forces of the Adeptus Astartes.

This also gives me an idea I wish I'd have had years ago when I was still building Razorbacks. The original "Deimos" pattern Rhino chassis was a mirror-image-able parallelogram. It had a big scoop/Cargo Door, and a small driver access door panel. Your point gives me the idea that only GW Art says this is the front that is the back. Flip the cargo door and the front plate on a current Rhino Chasis, and drive the thing "backwards" so the nominal driver's compartment is in the rear and the turret/transport area is in the front like a Higgins Boat - the inspiration for that new Ad Mech transport.

Oh well, I'm not chopping up the ones I have, or buying new ones with the current uncertainty of Space Marines vs Primaris.


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 BaconCatBug wrote:

Breton wrote:
Probably Depending on Index Imperium1/2 and their handling of <CHAPTER> and how/if they kept DeathWatch from getting a Predator in the first place (in Index Imperium), good catch.

The FW indexes have different rules to the GW indexes.

My FW index doesn't have any rules on this subject, just a sentence pointing you to Index Imperium 1 and 2.

Breton wrote:
My FW index doesn't have any rules on this subject, just a sentence pointing you to Index Imperium 1 and 2.

Did you read the FW index FAQ?

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Breton wrote:
My FW index doesn't have any rules on this subject, just a sentence pointing you to Index Imperium 1 and 2.

Did you read the FW index FAQ?

Just did, the only reference to Page 4 was for the Relic Rules.

Breton wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Breton wrote:
My FW index doesn't have any rules on this subject, just a sentence pointing you to Index Imperium 1 and 2.

Did you read the FW index FAQ?

Just did, the only reference to Page 4 was for the Relic Rules.

Pretty sure you didn't. https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/ https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/imperial_armour_index_forces_of_the_adeptus_astartes.pdf

WARHAMMER 40,000 – IMPERIAL ARMOUR INDEX: FORCES OF THE ADEPTUS ASTARTES Official Update Version 1.6 wrote:Q: Are there any restrictions on which Chapter I can choose when replacing the <CHAPTER> Faction keyword on datasheets within this book?
A: Yes. You cannot choose for any of these units to be from the LEGION OF THE DAMNED or GREY KNIGHTS Chapters. They can be from any other Chapter though, including BLOOD ANGELS, DARK ANGELS, SPACE WOLVES and DEATHWATCH.

Emphasis mine.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Breton wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Breton wrote:
My FW index doesn't have any rules on this subject, just a sentence pointing you to Index Imperium 1 and 2.

Did you read the FW index FAQ?

Just did, the only reference to Page 4 was for the Relic Rules.

Pretty sure you didn't. https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/ https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/imperial_armour_index_forces_of_the_adeptus_astartes.pdf

WARHAMMER 40,000 – IMPERIAL ARMOUR INDEX: FORCES OF THE ADEPTUS ASTARTES Official Update Version 1.6 wrote:Q: Are there any restrictions on which Chapter I can choose when replacing the <CHAPTER> Faction keyword on datasheets within this book?
A: Yes. You cannot choose for any of these units to be from the LEGION OF THE DAMNED or GREY KNIGHTS Chapters. They can be from any other Chapter though, including BLOOD ANGELS, DARK ANGELS, SPACE WOLVES and DEATHWATCH.

Emphasis mine.

The first search result I had come up was the 1.2 FAQ not the 1.6. Page 4 will still point you to Index Imperium 1 and 2 and is not FAQ'ed away - and not having mine handy right now, it may or may not interact in such a way as to prevent the combination of Death Watch and Predator. For being the You-need-90-books-and-must-play-literally-as-RAW I would have though you'd jump on this one with both feet. I mean the Index Astartes Forgeworld book says to follow the rules in Index Imperium 1 and 2. And I'm willing to bet Index Imperium 1 tells you exactly which data sheets the specified chapters can use and I'm willing to bet none on the list are from Index Astartes. Wouldn't that mean per your 90 book RAW non-Codex marines can't use any of them?

This is really a non-issue. It's a rhino chassis with Twin Lascannon on top of it. Anybody getting triggered over it is a TFG, imo.

The ONLY acceptable issue about it is if a player ran two of the same model as two different datasheets. I.e. ran two identical Rhino chassis with identical Predator turrets, and called one of them a Razorback and one of them a Predator. But even then, I'd personally be pretty ok with it, I just might ask them to mark one with a dice or something.

Personally I'm planning on doing this myself, because the Baal Predator twin-assault cannon turret looks fantastic as a Razorback turret, and I can magnetize the swap from Assault Cannons to Lascannons.

What many people obviously missed is that he said he was making a wheeled razorback.....so it already is a conversion and won't necessarily be confused as a Pred. I'm more interested in seeing how the wheels look than the turret, btw. I'd be cool with it.

I would have no issue unless you had predators and razerbacks with predator guns on them as it would be confusing. (unless your predators all had sponsons in which case game on again as there is a distinguisher) in pickup games I would be fine either way, it would only matter in tournaments where needing to prioritize targets and avoiding confusion are more important.

I went the other way around (Razorback modified to be a Predator) and no one has had any issues:

Only did this because I had already glued the side panels on, so it would have been more difficult to retro-actively magnetize sponsons. So I just put magnets on the sides of the turret.
Since measuring from the guns is no longer a rule, there is no issue with modeling it like this.
And I like the way it looks too

-

^I like that Predator, too. I want to do something similar with a bigger turret and swappable weapons. I'm also curious to see the new Executioner turret on a Rhino if anyone has the models yet.

^ That is brilliant

I suppose that means you could also run the Baal predator as an Assault Cannon Razorback, if you leave off the sponsons.

 bullyboy wrote:
What many people obviously missed is that he said he was making a wheeled razorback.....so it already is a conversion and won't necessarily be confused as a Pred. I'm more interested in seeing how the wheels look than the turret, btw. I'd be cool with it.

Ask and you shall receive. The is an early stage WIP though, so keep in mind that the wheels are not glued on, it's all just balanced together. If anything looks wonky, that's the reason.

nice. turrent seems a liiitle on the big side but it's nice.

SuperCool.

Turret looks great to me, like a Marine Stryker.

Turn the top plate around, it might pass as a BTR-3. Space Spetsnaz to go with Voystroyan (loyal 32!)

BrianDavion wrote:
nice. turrent seems a liiitle on the big side but it's nice.

The turret has to be big to hold the batteries for the LasCannons, and still have room for six guys and their beer cooler.

Breton wrote:
Beyond that, I'm both honest enough to know it would be a little immersion breaking to see 3 different kit-bashes for one model in a SM army vs an Ork army and old enough to not care as much as you seem to want me to.

"Immersion breaking" when in the fluff a lot of chapters are 10000 year old organizations acquiring their gear all over the galaxy and repairing/refurbishing them with what they have on hand, which might not exactly be what that pattern had before?

Okayyy.

Looks okay, but as usual the wheels throw it off. I've never seen a wheel conversion kit that works on Guard or Marine vehicles. Wheeled vehicles are often rather narrow (the idea being they zip along normal roads, etc.). That's part of their purpose/charm...not damaging normal roadways the way tanks etc. can. All of the conversion kits seem to add width to Chimeras or Rhinos and end up really looking out of place to me. (Also the tires on wheeled vehicles tend to be rather large).

I appreciate the idea behind it, but just doesn't look particularly good to me (but none of them do!)

 Insectum7 wrote:
This is really a non-issue. It's a rhino chassis with Twin Lascannon on top of it. Anybody getting triggered over it is a TFG, imo.

The ONLY acceptable issue about it is if a player ran two of the same model as two different datasheets. I.e. ran two identical Rhino chassis with identical Predator turrets, and called one of them a Razorback and one of them a Predator. But even then, I'd personally be pretty ok with it, I just might ask them to mark one with a dice or something.

Personally I'm planning on doing this myself, because the Baal Predator twin-assault cannon turret looks fantastic as a Razorback turret, and I can magnetize the swap from Assault Cannons to Lascannons.

I invite you to take my idea and magnetize the headlights somehow(in case you want to turn them back into Predators, Whirlwinds, or Vindicators later), then "drive" them "backwards". So the turret points "forwards" over the "assault ramp" like a Higgins boat if you'd like then. I want to do it so bad myself, but can't bring myself to drop that much money for something I already have. Maybe if I expand my Angel Wings to include Green Wing.


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BrianDavion wrote:
nice. turrent seems a liiitle on the big side but it's nice.

He's still using the Rhino hull, he just replaced the Side Track pieces. It's a problem with the Rhino hull itself. It's just too small. Compare that to 10 1.0 Space Marines and you can see it. There's no way that little bitty metal box will hold 10 7 foot tall power armored dudes. The wheeled sides actually gives the hull a little more size to be more reasonable, and it still looks small.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Irbis wrote:

Breton wrote:
Beyond that, I'm both honest enough to know it would be a little immersion breaking to see 3 different kit-bashes for one model in a SM army vs an Ork army and old enough to not care as much as you seem to want me to.

"Immersion breaking" when in the fluff a lot of chapters are 10000 year old organizations acquiring their gear all over the galaxy and repairing/refurbishing them with what they have on hand, which might not exactly be what that pattern had before?

Okayyy.

What does STC stand for again? Any given Space Marine Chapter's vehicles could certainly diverge from the norm, but they'd still be standardized within the chapter outside of unique things like the Terminus Ultra, or Corvex for example. Its the Orks that weld pieces on willy nilly.

Not a fan of wheeled Rhinos myself, but since it's converted enough to warrant a quick remark what it's supposed to be out of courtesy alone, I don't see why anyone would mistake it for a Predator.

 Insectum7 wrote:
This is really a non-issue. It's a rhino chassis with Twin Lascannon on top of it. Anybody getting triggered over it is a TFG, imo.

The ONLY acceptable issue about it is if a player ran two of the same model as two different datasheets. I.e. ran two identical Rhino chassis with identical Predator turrets, and called one of them a Razorback and one of them a Predator. But even then, I'd personally be pretty ok with it, I just might ask them to mark one with a dice or something.

Personally I'm planning on doing this myself, because the Baal Predator twin-assault cannon turret looks fantastic as a Razorback turret, and I can magnetize the swap from Assault Cannons to Lascannons.

I had some fun doing that based on a Vindicator that got a spare Baal turret.