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Made in us
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine






 Kroem wrote:
Having popped down to the Tank Museum recently I've been looking into 15mm or 1:100 tanks.

You're basically looking at between £5 and £7 where ever you get them from, dunno how that compares to your deal!

What puts me off Team Yankee is it is 'cold war run hot' rather than actual history.


It's definitely not the right game for you then. It's billed as an Alt-History Fantasy game.

I rather like the idea because I think the time frame was ripe for a major conflict, yet we somehow managed to avoid one.
   
Made in us
Napoleonics Obsesser




MN

There was a decent amount of Team Yankee up for sale in the Miniature Market sale. Mostly French though.....

Do you like Free Wargames?
http://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in us
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine






 Easy E wrote:
There was a decent amount of Team Yankee up for sale in the Miniature Market sale. Mostly French though.....


Great! I'll let one of our players know, he's looking to run the French forces!

I cannot believe how big the group I've started has gotten, we're up to 20 CONFIRMED players now, including 4 veterans I didn't even know played!
   
Made in us
Napoleonics Obsesser




MN

Awesome! I wish you great success!

Do you like Free Wargames?
http://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut



NE Ohio, USA

Overall FoW (be it WWI, WWII, or TY) is a decent game.

Though infantry is useful, Team Yankee plays very well as a pure tank/vehicle game. The WWII version works better as a combined arms approach.

The plane models are the one real downside in this game. Being made of resin (with metal bitz) they're fragile & prone to chipping/breakage. And they're fairly expensive (for what they are).
The game is modeled in 15mm/1:100 scale. The planes though are modeled in 1:144 scale.
Fortunately there's no end of 1:100 kits and even toys for most of the planes out there. They're more durable & considerably cheaper. Buy those when you can. ESPECIALLY if you're looking at running A-10s. Battlefronts A-10 is horrible.

Models in general. Battlefront holds no monopoly on history. So if you don't like their sculpt or price on something? There's always an alternative.
Zveda - cheap, easy to assemble, details are meh to adequate - you get what you pay for.....
Plastic Soldier Company - Cheaper than Battlefront, excellent detail, often a lot more parts & tiny spindly bits. What you save $ wise will be eaten up by assembly time. Their stuff can also be harder to get.
Battlefront - More expensive, detail lies between Zveda & PSC, the core kits are now all plastic but many others will often be resin/metal.
And then of course there's 3d printing.


The game is designed for two players. But it also works quite well with 2 - 3 players per side (adjusting pts/person as needed)

The upcoming rule book change is only tweaking some rules. This is because TY was the test bed for what became 4th edition WWII. And then V.2 of 'Nam, V.2 Arab/Isreli (now called Fate of a Nation), & V.2 of Great War. But between TY & V.4 WWII a few rules were changed. BF wants it all to be ONE unified system, thus the new TY being brought into line with everything else.
They've said this won't affect any of the existing army books.

Anti-Air units - invest in some. Particularly those that can also target ground units.
Magnetize your turrets.
Marking destroyed vehicles - Reaper makes a 3 pack of Burning Spheres in their Bones line. These are EXCELLENT for marking destroyed vehicles.
Unit cards - at first you might look at these & maybe pass. But they are so much handier that page flipping.
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




Imagine that I was one of the people that joined your FB group to play. This is how disruptive that I would be ...

In my understanding, before Team Yankee, Battlefront Miniatures began Flames of War to appeal to military gamers wanting miniatures to play a World War II game. Thus, if I can make a generalization of the military gamers, then miniature availability was more important than whether the miniatures were plastic or not. And, this focus on miniatures first was carried into Team Yankee to some degree, but Battlefront Miniatures realized that plastic miniatures were needed to add more customers.

I have tried the non-plastic miniatures from Battlefront Miniatures and, in my view, they are poor quality miniatures in comparison to plastic miniatures in general. I also consider myself a miniatures gamer who wants to play a tank and helicopter game with plastic miniatures, and not a military gamer who wants to play a war game with whatever is available. So, as I see things, I am in conflict with the player base of Team Yankee because of my narrow focus. That conflict of mine deepens when a Team Yankee force consisting of or mainly consisting of non-plastic models may always dominate a force of plastic models.

A Landing Page was created for the release of a new force book in Team Yankee, for example, as follows:

https://www.team-yankee.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=5686 Red Thunder Landing Page
https://www.team-yankee.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=5910 Stripes Landing Page
https://www.team-yankee.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=5375 Iron Maiden Landing Page
https://www.team-yankee.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=5288 Leopard Landing Page
https://www.team-yankee.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=6099 Free Nations Landing Page

In the above Landing Pages, some of the products have a red on white logo of "All Plastic" on the front box cover to identify what was available in plastic. For the most part, the plastic products were the MBTs and the helicopters. Thus, for someone like myself, this was what I wanted as a miniatures gamer who was wanting to play a tank and helicopter game with plastic models.

If I look at that above Leopard Landing Page, then I see "All Plastic" for the Leopard 2 Panzer Zug (TGBX02), but not for the Leopard 1 Panzer Zug (TGBX03).

However, if I click on the Leopard 1 Panzer Zug (TGBX03), then I go to ...

https://www.team-yankee.com/Default.aspx?tabid=867&art_id=5180 Leopard 1 Panzer Zug (TGBX03)
"This model is no longer available and has been replaced by our new all plastic Leopard 1 (TGBX14)."

And, if I search for TGBX14, then I get ...

https://www.team-yankee.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=5966 Leopard 1 Panzer Zug Platoon (Plastic) (TGBX14)

But, but, there is no red on white logo of "All Plastic" on the TGBX14 box.

However, Battlefront Miniatures is trying to replace its non-plastic miniatures with plastic miniatures.

I have the Team Yankee rulebook (FW905) containing the U.S. Forces and the Soviet Union Forces. I do not have Stripes (FW912). My interest is a U.S. Force because some of the war kit is iconic to me. Not all of the iconic war kit translates into gaming pieces for me as follows:

- 1x TUBX08 Abrams Tank Platoon (Plastic)
- 1x TUBX05 AH-1 Cobra (Plastic)
- 1x TUBX03 M113 Platoon (Plastic) 1x TUBX02 M163 VADS or M901 ITV Platoon (Plastic)
- 1x TUBX07 Huey Helicopter Flight (Plastic) UH-1D Slick Templates
- 1x TUBX12 Harrier Flight Revell 1:144 Harrier
- 1x TUBX06 A-10 Warthog Fighter Flight Revell 1:144 A-10
- 1x TUBX04 M109 Field Artillery Battery off-board field artillery

https://www.team-yankee.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=5702 TUBX08 Abrams Tank Platoon
"Includes five plastic IPM1 Abrams or M1 Abrams tanks, resin tank commander sprue, three Unit Cards & decal sheet."
I would have one M1 Abrams for the HQ, and two platoons of two M1 Abrams each to satisfy the minimum requirement for a M1 ABRAMS ARMORED COMBAT TEAM.

https://www.team-yankee.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=4960 Cobra Attack Helicopter Platoon (TUBX05)
"Includes two plastic AH-1 Cobra helicopters, two plastic flight stands, two decal sheets and unit card."
The two AH-1 Cobra helicopters provide a AH-1 COBRA ATTACK HELICOPTER PLATOON.

https://www.team-yankee.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=4950 M163 VADS/M901 ITV Platoon (Plastic) (TUBX02)
"Includes four plastic M163 VADS/M901 ITV vehicles, Decal Sheet and Crew"
TUBX02 comes with "M113 Sprue (x4)" and "VADS/ITV Weapon Sprue (x4)". I would use rare earth magnets on the M163 VADS or M901 ITV components in case I just wanted M113s.

http://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=4156 UH-1D Slick Templates
https://www.flamesofwar.com/Portals/0/Documents/Modelling/UH-1D-Template.pdf
I put the info here on the UH-1D Slick Templates because they provide a quick and dirty representation when starting from scratch, and I dislike how the transport helicopter rules for a Huey were implemented in Stripes, so I am boycotting the miniatures to a degree.

https://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=5706 AV-8 Harrier Attack Flight (TUBX12)
"contains two resin and metal AV-8 Harriers, two plastic flight stands, four rare-earth magnets, and one unit card."
https://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=4944
"Includes two resin A-10 Thunderbolt II 'Warthog' aircraft, two plastic flight stands with tall stems, four rare-earth magnets, one decal sheet and one Unit Card."
Use google image with a search on "Revell 1:144 Harrier" and "Revell 1:144 A-10" for plastic kits.
I built a "Revell 1:144 Harrier" with a rare earth magnet at the balance point in the underbelly to have a plastic Jump Jet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M109_howitzer
"Effective firing range Conventional: 18 km (11 mi) RAP: 30 km (19 mi)"
I am still an opponent of indirect-fire field artillery in line of sight of enemy tanks, even if the ground scale for the weapon ranges in the game are funky.

I have more disruption.
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord






I'm not going to lie...I have no idea what point you were really trying to make there? Imbalance of plastic vs. non-plastic models? There are heaps of alternate options to buy miniatures for the game/other modern wargames.

I'm not following your post?

I do agree though that I dislike immensely the FoW/TY need to have artillery on-board in what would be an engagement at some 0.5 kilometers distance, etc. This is like GW pretending we need aircraft to be flying at 10' and over the battlefield in order to be there...just to sell more plastic.

 
   
Made in us
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine






Humanoid, I am also confused, could you clarify what you mean?
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







As people have already noted, the WARPAC armies are basically variations of subhuman robot who's strategies consist of simply overwhelming the other player via having a bigger wallet, with only one getting the dignity of their own unique infantry sculpt.
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




I am guessing that my statement of "That conflict of mine deepens when a Team Yankee force consisting of or mainly consisting of non-plastic models may always dominate a force of plastic models." is the one that is confusing people.

I have stated that my interest is in building a U.S. Force because some of the war kit is iconic to me. If I go to the Stripes Landing Page, then I find some miniatures that are non-plastic, for example, two AA vehicles as follows:

https://www.team-yankee.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=5704 M247 Sergeant York AA (TUBX10)
https://www.team-yankee.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=5703 M48 Chaparral SAM Platoon (TUBX09)

Let's compare the weapon ranges of the plastic M163 VADS and the non-plastic M247 Sergeant York and M48 Chaparral using their Unit Cards as follows:

M163 VADS (plastic) - M168 20mm Vulcan Gatling AA Gun - 20"/50cm
https://www.team-yankee.com/Portals/0/all_images/TeamYankee/American/Cards/TU110.jpg

M247 Sergeant York AA (non-plastic) - Twin 40mm AA Gun Range 24"/60cm
https://www.team-yankee.com/Portals/0/all_images/TeamYankee/American/Cards/TU119.jpg

M48 Chaparral SAM (non-plastic) - MIM-72 Sidewinder AA Missile Range 72"/180cm
https://www.team-yankee.com/Portals/0/all_images/TeamYankee/American/Cards/TU120.jpg

Let's look at the non-plastic SU-25 Frogfoot as follows:

https://www.team-yankee.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=4945 SU-25 Frogfoot (x2) (TSBX09)

SU-25 Frogfoot (non-plastic) - Kh-25 air-ground missile range 8"/20cm-28"/70cm
https://www.team-yankee.com/Portals/0/all_images/TeamYankee/Soviet/Cards/TS116.jpg

Using the weapon ranges above, I would need the M48 Chaparral SAM (non-plastic) with a weapon range of 72"/180cm to deter or counter the SU-25 Frogfoot (non-plastic) with a weapon range of 8"/20cm-28"/70cm. Otherwise, the SU-25 Frogfoot (non-plastic) should be able to shoot from a position outside of the weapon range of 20"/50cm for the M163 VADS (plastic).

On page 96 of the Team Yankee rulebook (FW905), a SU-25 Frogfoot Aviation Company can have 2, 4, or 6 SU-25s.

Here's a 51-point U.S. Force from the Team Yankee rulebook (FW905):

- 6x M1 Abrams (plastic) for a HQ and two platoons
- 3x M163 VADS (plastic) for an AA platoon

Here's a 50-point Soviet Force from the Team Yankee rulebook (FW905):

- 7x T-72 (plastic) for a HQ and two platoons
- 6x SU-25 Frogfoot (non-plastic)

Just remember, I have not played Team Yankee, so I do not know the rules intimately nor their nuances. But, in the above, there's no need for the T-72s to engage the M-1s in a firefight while the SU-25s are out of range of the M163s and making passes over the battlefield and shooting at the M-1s.

The Team Yankee rulebook (FW905) does not have the M48 Chaparral SAM (non-plastic) in the U.S. Forces. I suspect that one could remove a M1 Abrams and the M163 VADS platoon above to include a M48 Chaparral SAM (non-plastic) platoon in Stripes (FW912) for the points cost.

Perhaps in time, Battlefront Miniatures would release a plastic M48 Chaparral SAM, but I do not think so.

My statement was a poor translation from thought to print. I hope that my explanation above using an example provides a better presentation of my thought.
   
Made in us
Executing Exarch




Fixed-wing aircraft only have a roughly 50% chance of showing up on any given turn. They're notorious for not showing up when you need them. Actually scoring the hit and then getting the kill (as opposed to just bailing the target) can also be an issue. And you need to do so in a timely fashion. So it's not completely cut and dried.

The VADS is in plastic because its one of the M113 variants. The Chapparel was Battlefront's sole nod to regular US Army players in Stripes (the players generally condemned the inclusion of the Sgt. York since the thing never worked, but its inclusion appears to have been a pet project of someone at BF), since US players demanded missile-based AA after not getting it in the basic rulebook.

Yes, I'm a US player who's rather bitter about Stripes. Why do you ask? (I also refused to buy the book)
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Have TY here, got it coming from flames of war (3rd edition). its not a bad game, though its far from perfect, advantage is mostly once you have the models there are other sets of rules you can use them with.

plus points being 15mm terrain is easy to get hold of, the models in plastic are pretty good, the resin stuff is horrible, aircraft especially, the bendy plastic infantry are worth avoiding too. Battlefront wanted a "tank" game and it shows.

downsides:
- the morale rules suck and blow at the same time, and if they mirror FoW V4 will get worse, apparently a complaint for FoW 3rd was too much stuff ran away from big units and small units never ran.. they 'fixed' that one alright
- good luck trying to use historical tactics, treat it as a table top game but forget it being a simulation, here you have unlimited anti tank guided weapons so just blast away, you never run out

Warsaw Pact forces are basically targets, expected to play dumb and use swarm attacks, it can work but it gets old fast

that said its not that expensive to get into, the tank models are pretty good, even if pretty much every army fights a lot better if you leave them at home and just bring infantry with guided missiles and their transports to spam machine gun rounds

what sort of makes it "work" is the scenario system, especially if you ignore the first mission and stick to the ones with actual objectives - these make sitting still a near certain way to lose much of the time and force players to actually try to attack, itsw not perfect but it does change the game significantly. Those smaller NATO forces of two tank platoons plus the HQ and some aircraft quickly discover they cannot hold ground and try to capture it at the same time - this is where some infantry helps (hold what you need to defend)

just needs players to be sensible and not spam the missile units and have reasonably mixed forces, as with flames of war you have a 'company' with enough support for an entire division, and many of the support units are dirt cheap (e.g. the gun carrying flak units, who are also very good against light vehicles and infantry, which is why you either see a lot of air, or none at all - its way too expensive for what it does)


if you can afford it, and people locally play it, well its better than nothing as long as you don't take it too seriously or expect any of the problems to be fixed any time soon
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord






Eumerin wrote:
Fixed-wing aircraft only have a roughly 50% chance of showing up on any given turn. They're notorious for not showing up when you need them. Actually scoring the hit and then getting the kill (as opposed to just bailing the target) can also be an issue. And you need to do so in a timely fashion. So it's not completely cut and dried.

The VADS is in plastic because its one of the M113 variants. The Chapparel was Battlefront's sole nod to regular US Army players in Stripes (the players generally condemned the inclusion of the Sgt. York since the thing never worked, but its inclusion appears to have been a pet project of someone at BF), since US players demanded missile-based AA after not getting it in the basic rulebook.

Yes, I'm a US player who's rather bitter about Stripes. Why do you ask? (I also refused to buy the book)


I suspect it's very similar to FoW where you can "have" a lot of things which didn't really exist. There was an Italian anti-tank vehicle/mobile platform for FoW which was a basic component you could use, despite only 6-8 of them being built during the actual war, etc. From the company/business perspective it makes sense, as you want to allow options, but re-fighting historical engagements takes a bit of a back seat to that sometimes (unless the players acknowledge this limitation themselves).

 
   
Made in us
Executing Exarch




 Elbows wrote:
Eumerin wrote:

The VADS is in plastic because its one of the M113 variants. The Chapparel was Battlefront's sole nod to regular US Army players in Stripes (the players generally condemned the inclusion of the Sgt. York since the thing never worked, but its inclusion appears to have been a pet project of someone at BF), since US players demanded missile-based AA after not getting it in the basic rulebook.

Yes, I'm a US player who's rather bitter about Stripes. Why do you ask? (I also refused to buy the book)


I suspect it's very similar to FoW where you can "have" a lot of things which didn't really exist. There was an Italian anti-tank vehicle/mobile platform for FoW which was a basic component you could use, despite only 6-8 of them being built during the actual war, etc. From the company/business perspective it makes sense, as you want to allow options, but re-fighting historical engagements takes a bit of a back seat to that sometimes (unless the players acknowledge this limitation themselves).


Up until the Sgt. York, they'd been pretty good about that sort of thing. The US SAW was a little early, but that was a minor thing. So far, the Sgt. York is the only "Why is this weapon in an historical game?" item.

The next US book is going to get one more, though I'm actually okay with this one. The Stingray light tank was submitted as part of a US Army test for a new light mobile gun platform. Ultimately, the Army (or possibly Congeress) decided not to go ahead with the program. But the Stingray was a fully functional light tank. So the Royal Thai Army bought a bunch of them in the '90s. Apparently they'll be in the next book under the idea that the wartime situation caused the US to go ahead with the program (also, the Stingray was built using a number of components in common with existing US vehicles to ease manufacturing and supply chain issues).
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot




New Jersey, State of Perfection

So far, the Sgt. York is the only "Why is this weapon in an historical game?" item.


Well, for starters, its not a historical game.

This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
Sympathy for the Devil, or: The Project Log from Hell

Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
Made in us
Executing Exarch




chaos0xomega wrote:
So far, the Sgt. York is the only "Why is this weapon in an historical game?" item.


Well, for starters, its not a historical game.


You know exactly what I mean. But since you're going to be anal about it...

"Why is this weapon in a game that uses historical equipment and unit organizations?"

Happy now?

/rolleyes
   
Made in us
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine






Eumerin wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
So far, the Sgt. York is the only "Why is this weapon in an historical game?" item.


Well, for starters, its not a historical game.


You know exactly what I mean. But since you're going to be anal about it...

"Why is this weapon in a game that uses historical equipment and unit organizations?"

Happy now?

/rolleyes


What is this weapon you don't like?
   
Made in us
Executing Exarch




The Sgt. York was a mobile anti-aircraft vehicle that was supposed to replace the VADS in the US Army. Unfortunately, the designers could never get the tracking software that it used to work properly (reportedly, at one demonstration event it tracked a rotating roof fan instead of the target), so the program was cancelled in the '80s. 50 of the vehicles were built, but it was useless as an anti-air platform. So the vehicles were handed over to the National Guard.

Battlefront included it in Stripes as an option to take instead of the VADS.
   
Made in us
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine






Eumerin wrote:
The Sgt. York was a mobile anti-aircraft vehicle that was supposed to replace the VADS in the US Army. Unfortunately, the designers could never get the tracking software that it used to work properly (reportedly, at one demonstration event it tracked a rotating roof fan instead of the target), so the program was cancelled in the '80s. 50 of the vehicles were built, but it was useless as an anti-air platform. So the vehicles were handed over to the National Guard.

Battlefront included it in Stripes as an option to take instead of the VADS.


Okay. Thanks, I guess if someone doesn't like them, don't play them.
   
Made in us
Executing Exarch




There are a number of reasons why I'm unhappy with Stripes. The presence of the Sgt. York is merely one of them.

But it's not something that's appropriate to get into in this thread.
   
Made in us
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine






Eumerin wrote:
There are a number of reasons why I'm unhappy with Stripes. The presence of the Sgt. York is merely one of them.

But it's not something that's appropriate to get into in this thread.


That's cool brother. I doubt anyone truly is happy 100% with any hobby

Is Stripes required to play the game?
   
Made in us
Oberleutnant





Required? No. But I think Stripes is the only book that has US lists with Marines in it and US lists with M60s. The M1 suffers a bit as there are valid arguments that it is 1 or 2 points per hull to pricey. The M60, makes that up with a lower cost, same gun, but lower armor.







 
   
Made in us
Executing Exarch




The original rulebook has lists for the US and Soviets. Those lists are reprinted and expanded in Stripes and Red Thunder, respectively.

When Stripes was announced, players thought that it would include the Chapparel and Bradley. It included the former, but not the latter, and Battlefront refused to provide any sort of statement about the lack of the Bradley (incidentally, they're repeating this tactic regarding the removal of the Hellcat from the new US Normandy book). Instead of the Bradley, we got the Sgt. York, which historically didn't work, and none of the players had asked for. And its presence caused the players from Russia to once again start complaining about the still missing (but historically accurate) T-80.

Compounding ithis was my realization that the rest of the book was largely an excuse to bring in models from the Vietnam range. The USMC had just been added to Vietnam, and some of their gear was carried forward into Stripes. The rest of their kit was then provided to fill them out. Sheridans and Hueys were also in the Vietnam range, and so the 82nd Airborne list was added to allow their use.

And then since the models were already being used by the Marines, the M60 and Humvee were also added to the Army lists.


Now don't get me wrong. Double-use of models is fine. But the book release made me come to the conclusion that as a US Army player (who wasn't running airborne), I was an afterthought when the book was written.

Plus, there's Battlefront's lack of communication on the Bradley.

There's no reason why orhers shouldn't buy it, though.


Another US book is supposed to come out before long (third in line after British, and then Soviet), and is supposed to include the Bradley, M1A1, and Apache. A timeline advancement is involved to allow the latter two.
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




More disruption from me ... Huey Helicopter Transport ...

If one goes to the Team Yankee website, then one sees the products of "'Nam 1965-1972" for the Vietnam War, and "Fate of the Nation" for the two Arab-Israeli Wars of 1967 and 1973.

Wargames Illustrated did video "flipthroughs" of 'Nam and Fate of a Nation as follows:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9KZF5gUviw 'Nam
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58kjMJOORJE Fate of a Nation

https://aiw.team-yankee.com/sample-page/
- "The tank battles on the Sinai Peninsula and Golan Heights were the largest to occur since World War Two."
- "Fate of a Nation ... is designed to be a complete stand-alone game, fully compatible with the companion ‘Nam book."
- "The conversion of Fate of a Nation to the Team Yankee game system enables the rules to be streamlined, and tactical differences between armies brought out by differences in their command and morale ratings."
- "The range of plastic boxed sets suitable to build Fate of a Nation armies has grown again. With Team Yankee and ‘Nam released, there are already plastic kits available for vehicles like the Magach-6 (M60), M113, T-34, T-55, BTR-60, and BMP. The new plastic T-62 is also being released to for this book."

I underlined the important point above, and the point also applies to 'Nam.

Battlefront Miniatures brought us to 'Nam and Fate of a Nation through the following product paths:

- Tropic Lightning booklet (FoW) --> Tour of Duty (FoW) --> 'Nam (Team Yankee)
- Fate of a Nation booklet (FoW) --> Fate of a Nation (FoW) --> Fate of a Nation (Team Yankee)

The booklets of Tropic Lightning and Fate of a Nation were included with separate issues of Wargames Illustrated.

The Tropic Lightning booklet on pages 23 and 24 contains the following:

Pick-up and Landing Zones

Transport helicopters (called Slicks by the troops they carried) meet their passengers at the Pick-up Zone (PZ or Papa Zulu) and carry them to the Landing Zone (LZ or Lima Zulu).

Designate an area on an adjacent table as the Pick-up Zone. All teams awaiting transport to the Landing Zone are held off table at the Pick-up Zone. Any Slicks not currently on the table are also held at the Pick-up Zone.

A Rifle Company (Airmobile) may deploy platoons to the Pick-up Zone rather than deploying them on the table or in Reserve.



Page 22 of the Tropic Lightning booklet contains the following:
Gunships are Flying helicopters. Flying helicopters can shoot over and be shot at over friendly troops.

Slicks are Landed helicopters.


Battlefront Miniatures, either through the Flames of War website or the Wargames Illustrated website, released a number of pdf documents. I cannot remember if these pdf documents were associated with "Tropic Lightning" or "Tour of Duty". One of those pdf documents was called "7th Cavalry in Vietnam" and contains the Helicopter Loading Chart. I found this pdf document recently as follows:

http://cfile1.uf.tistory.com/attach/16676B114B750D3452BA70 7th Cavalry in Vietnam

Page 9 of the above "7th Cavalry in Vietnam" pdf contains the following:
Hogs and empty Slicks are Flying helicopters. Flying helicopters can shoot over and be shot at over friendly troops.

Slicks carrying passengers are Landed helicopters.


Page 103 of "Tour of Duty" contains the following:
The UH-1D Slicks of an Aerorifle Platoon can choose each Movement Step to either operate as Slicks or Gunships, whether carrying Passengers or not.


My brain hurts in the churn from the above quotes on the functionality of Huey Helicopter Transports. However, there is consistency when a Huey Helicopter Transport is on the table as Flying means using a Flying Stand, and Landed means not using a Flying Stand and on the skids, at least one would think.

For miniatures, I bought two boxes of the resin-lead UH-1D Slick (VUSBX03). The lead skids in each box were flat as if someone had stepped on them. The resin fit of the tail section to the fuselage was flawed. I needed several attempts with superglue to get as little tail wag as possible.

https://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=3809 Tour of Duty ... Flames Of War Vietnam Product Releases
https://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=2517 UH-1D Slick (VUSBX03)
https://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=2518 UH-1B Hog (VUSBX02)

Note the 1:100 scale for the non-plastic Huey miniatures on the back of the box cover for VUSBX03 and VUSBX02.

I was not interested in the asymmetric wargaming of "Tropic Lightning", "Tour of Duty", and "'Nam", but I was interested in helicopter wargaming.

What was the streamlining that occured for the Huey Helicopter Transports in the form of the Team Yankee rules?

Much to my disappointment, the Team Yankee rulebook (FW905) did not have Huey Helicopter Transports in the U.S. Forces. There was no Helicopter Loading Chart.

I think that it was the video flipthrough of Stripes (FW912) from Wargames Illustrated as the one that I saw for Stripes (FW912).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1YpFNtVE04 Wargames Illustrated flipthrough of Stripes

Here's something to keep in mind at 1:34 of the Special Rules in the video flipthrough:
Door Guns: "Unlike other Helicopters, UH-1 Hueys with Door Guns can Shoot while Landed. Door Guns can only Shoot in the turn that they Land."


Much to my disappointment, Stripes (FW912) had no special rules for sorties of a UH-1 Huey to ferry passengers from off-table at the Pick-up Zone to on-table.

https://www.team-yankee.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=5712 Huey Transport Helicopter Platoon (TUBX07)
Unit Cards:
https://www.team-yankee.com/Portals/0/all_images/TeamYankee/American/Cards/TU123.jpg Army: Passengers 3
https://www.team-yankee.com/Portals/0/all_images/TeamYankee/American/Cards/TU159.jpg Marine: Passengers 4

If I understand the rules correctly in Team Yankee and Stripes for the Huey Helicopter Transport, then an UH-1 is pre-loaded with Teams (up to 3 or 4), can loiter high in the sky on deployment (depending on the mission), lands on Turn X while shooting its Door Guns (if desired), dismounts its passengers on Turn X+1, and flies away after the passenger dismount to loiter high in the sky and perhaps is never apart of the play again unless landing to pick-up its passengers.

So, one buys, assembles, and paints UH-1 Hueys just to use from one Movement Step to the following Movement Step.

That's not fun with Huey Helicopter Transports for me.
   
Made in us
Executing Exarch




Pretty much. The change brings them into line with the Hind, which can carry troops and also act as a gunship.*


* Before anyone complains, I'm aware that the Soviets didn't actually use them in both roles during a single mission. But it's a cost-cutting measure by BF.
   
Made in us
Oberleutnant





Or the Lynx, which doesn't even have door guns to use.







 
   
Made in us
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine






So I just cannot decide, I keep bouncing back and forth between Israel and West Germany. At this point I am about to just buy starters and extra tanks for both and call it good!

Why do these models have to look so good! ?
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord






I'd just flip a coin...and then definitely paint and play one force before diving into another. If you don't enjoy the game after a month or two, extra money isn't wasted.

PS: Who do your opponents own. Are you interested in playing a historical engagement or will you be playing random stuff like Britain vs. Israel and USA vs. West Germany, etc?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/25 22:45:52


 
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




 Togusa wrote:
So I just cannot decide, I keep bouncing back and forth between Israel and West Germany. At this point I am about to just buy starters and extra tanks for both and call it good!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaP4ieLhYLE Wargames Illustrated flipthrough of Oil War

Here's my revised list from the Team Yankee website and the flipthrough as follows:

11 points for a Leopard 2 - https://www.team-yankee.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=5254
8 points for a M1 Abrams - https://www.team-yankee.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=5056
7 points for a Chieftain - https://www.team-yankee.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=5326
7 points for a Merkava 2 https://www.team-yankee.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=6469
6 points for a Merkava 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaP4ieLhYLE at 1:14
6 points for 1 T-64 - https://www.team-yankee.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=5692
5 points for a T-72 - https://www.team-yankee.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=5057

I have you buying the following:

- 1x Leopard 2 Panzer Zug (TGBX01) ... total is 5 Leopard 2s
- 2x Merkava Tank Platoon (Plastic) (TIBX01) ... total is 10 Merkavas
- 2x T-64 Tankovy Company (Plastic) (TSBX13) ... total is 10 T-64s

or

- 1x Leopard 2 Panzer Zug (TGBX01) ... total is 5 Leopard 2s
- 2x Merkava Tank Platoon (Plastic) (TIBX01) ... total is 10 Merkava
- 2x T-64 Tankovy Company (Plastic) (TSBX13) ... total is 10 T-64s
- 3x T-72 Tankovy Company (TSBX01) ... total is 15 T-72s

The Merkava Tank Platoon (Plastic) (TIBX01) can build either Merkava 2s or Merkava 1s.

To play the following tank versus tank games ...

55 points of 5x Leopard 2s versus:
- 56 points of 8x Merkava 2s
- 54 points of 9x Merkava 1s
- 54 points of 9x T-64s
or
- 55 points of 11x T-72s

56 points of 8x Merkava 2 versus
- 60 points of 10x T-64
or
70 points of 10x Merkava 2 versus
- 70 points of 14x T-72

60 points of 10x Merkava 1 versus
- 60 points of 10x T-64
or
- 60 points of 12x T-72

The reason why that I have you buying Soviet tanks is that you will need to demo blue-versus-red battles in your area as the prime for Team Yankee.

As the prime for Team Yankee in your area, you may have to double the above to demo large tank battles.

Of course, if you have a Soviet tank player in your area that's dependable on supporting demo games, then you do not need to buy Soviet tanks.
   
Made in us
Napoleonics Obsesser




MN

I would go Israeli, so then you can also play Fate of a Nation style games or regular Team Yankee.

How much do you like painting tan?

Do you like Free Wargames?
http://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/ 
   
 
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