Monolith Games: Conan 2020 Kickstarter

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**insaniak**

Gallahad wrote:
Oh no. I think it will be almost impossible to fund a $700k project out of the gates. Fake stretch goals etc. are the lifeblood of a campaign because it gives backers that dopamine hit of accomplishment and reveals of the next goal. Encouraging them to open their wallet by degrees.

The flipside is that Kickstarter is becoming more well-known for the projects that 'funded' but then failed, or are stuck in we-ran-out-money limbo, than for the projects that actually went without a hitch, and that's something that needs to change. If that means re-educating potential backers and finding new ways to get them interested in projects, then that seems like a sensible thing to do.

Good on them for leading the charge.

**Gallahad**

insaniak wrote:
Gallahad wrote:
Oh no. I think it will be almost impossible to fund a $700k project out of the gates. Fake stretch goals etc. are the lifeblood of a campaign because it gives backers that dopamine hit of accomplishment and reveals of the next goal. Encouraging them to open their wallet by degrees.

The flipside is that Kickstarter is becoming more well-known for the projects that 'funded' but then failed, or are stuck in we-ran-out-money limbo, than for the projects that actually went without a hitch, and that's something that needs to change. If that means re-educating potential backers and finding new ways to get them interested in projects, then that seems like a sensible thing to do.

Good on them for leading the charge.

I definitely agree on the need to educate backers etc. And on an intellectual level we all know that fake stretch goals are fake, etc. I just wonder how much of the capital that comes from Kickstarter is gained by emotional decisions, meaning people who pledge when they normally wouldn't because of the emotional journey and incremental reupping of pledges. For example, it is much easier to convince someone to spend $200 if they've already "spent" $150.
I will be pledging, and I hope others will as well! I want them to be successful, but I wonder if they are discounting the role that emotion and psychology plays in people's decisions to back

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

the other thing doing it this way means is they can't respond to backer request so there's a lot less group building

I know a lot of backer requests are nonsense, but some of them are worth listening to generally, and others if your after a certain type of customer, like boardgamers love for a huge empty box to put it all in

better to go for a reasonable offering to start with with additional timed unlocks, which, since you've not shown them, gives you the ability to respond to your backers if you do need to add something and remove some bling you now can't afford to do so

**malfred**

OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
the other thing doing it this way means is they can't respond to backer request so there's a lot less group building

I know a lot of backer requests are nonsense, but some of them are worth listening to generally, and others if your after a certain type of customer, like boardgamers love for a huge empty box to put it all in

better to go for a reasonable offering to start with with additional timed unlocks, which, since you've not shown them, gives you the ability to respond to your backers if you do need to add something and remove some bling you now can't afford to do so

Aren't backer requests simply them acquiescing to things they had planned to to begin with?

**Monkeysloth**

Sometimes for sure but in the first Conan KSer, for example, there were no plans for a Camel. Everyone wanted one due to the scene in the movie where Arnold punches one so they added it. CMoN is also known to change things up. Reaper always adds a collection of backer recommended things at the very end. But I'm sure in the instance of CMoN and Reaper they swap out something for another of the same price and the backer recommended things are expected now so that has a flat budget regardless of what get's put in they won't go over that planned cost.

KSers have to be pretty well laid out from the get go to hit the hidden cost but you still have to have some flexibility to be able to adapt to what people are asking.

But asking for 700k over a campaign that's like 1 week long and not using any the of the standard tricks to entice people. Sure they're dumb tricks, we know that starting 100k is a fraction of what's needed but people want to see funded in one day and a huge amount over the "needed" total to determine if they should back. People have been conditioned to expect things and I don't think Conan is a big enough property to break that conditioning. They should have tried this with the second Batman KSer.

**Monkeysloth**

January 6th is the start of the KSer.

**Nurglitch**

It's interesting to see this as marketing in itself. It'll draw lots of attention simply from people seeing if it works. Not that it works for people kickstarting a business, but if it works for established companies willing to be honest and up front about the costs of doing sustainable business, all the better.

**malfred**

Anyway , I imagine that part of the discussion could be carried on in discussions, yes?

**Monkeysloth**

Well, if you want some drama go read Monolith's social media accounts. They posted what the pirate box looks like. (sorry, don't know how to add attachments inline for this forum so it's at the bottom). $49 gets you 51 minis. Two double sided boards and other bits you need to play. Existing Conan backers will get a $5 discount for the box. Pretty good price but a lot of repeats, as expected but..wow...people are upset. Seams like Monolith really miss calculated how many people want a vs mode. Monolith even asked, in a different post, how many people would prefer to pay $40 for just new stuff in the box vs $44 (for those with the discount) to get the extra 31 minis that would be repeats from KS1 (and cost Monolith about $4 to make) and only about half said the second option. Now it seams they're looking into providing a "Legendary" box that will just contain the new minis and maps.

I'm still not sure how much I'll back. I'm one of those really not interested in the vs mode...but I do play the 2d20 RPG from time to time and you need lots of copies of mooks for that if using minis.

**Carlovonsexron**

Do they have any images up for what an Aquilonian army would look like? I'd chip in for that almost assuredly.

**Albino Squirrel**

So, are the forces set specifically for each scenario? Like there is no points based force building or anything?

**Monkeysloth**

Carlovonsexron wrote:Do they have any images up for what an Aquilonian army would look like? I'd chip in for that almost assuredly.

Haven't shown any other boxes yet. With the KSer less then a month away I'd expect to see those reviled sooner then later.

Albino Squirrel wrote:So, are the forces set specifically for each scenario? Like there is no points based force building or anything?

Dono. I don't have any interest in VS mode so I haven't followed along but it's supposed to be the same as Batman. I'm sure someone else here who has that game can chime in.

**Llamahead**

Hmm I'm still interested but it does look like 5 of the sculpts are only of 2 of the characters. Undead I might well go for even with the repeats. Given the GW alternative costs $90 for 19 models (Start Collecting of Khorne set) and Mantic costs $90 for 63 models the moaners are being pretty petty in my opinion.

**Monkeysloth**

The people upset have 3 arguments:

1) I just want to content to play vs mode and don't care about the extra minis I may need and don't want to rebuy what you've already sold me just to play.

2) I don't care about vs mode I just want the new stuff (as there is a new Adventure mode campaign being made too).

3) I just want the out of print stuff from the first campaign as the adventures Monolith released all require KSer exclusive stuff -- even post retail. Huge bungle on Monlith's part. The retail box has about half of what you need and everything else is unavailable or pretty useless. An example is selling a box of crossbowmen. No scenario comes with them. You can only use them if you happen to have one that does include them (which is one or two I think). The game also isn't designed to substitute things very easily.

Monolith has unofficially announced a solution to #2 though I suspect the price will anger people as there's only a handful of new sculpts and their molds have to be paid for somehow. The first KSer you got a LOT for $90 and I can't see this coming close to that value.

#3 they say they have sold old stock they plan on selling in the KSer but it's really limited. But from one of their Contractors (may be employee now) said that the box they're planning to cover #2 above will have some extra stuff to fill out what's needed for the old campaign books.

Not sure if they'll do anything for #1. That 700k funding goal is looking harder and harder to hit which existing fans only want a $30 or so upgrade. Not sure how wide of a net Conan casts as none of the other Conan skirmish games from the past 2 years have come close to funding and existing backers are split down the middle on this campaign.

**Gallahad**

Getting minis I don't need has never stopped me in the past!
That is a good price for the content.

**Carlovonsexron**

Monkeysloth wrote:

Not sure if they'll do anything for #1. That 700k funding goal is looking harder and harder to hit which existing fans only want a $30 or so upgrade. Not sure how wide of a net Conan casts as none of the other Conan skirmish games from the past 2 years have come close to funding and existing backers are split down the middle on this campaign.

To be fair, the only two I now of were by the same guys, and while the sculpts looked cool they were supposed to be pre-painted, which certainly drove off people, including myself.

I do hope those sculpts turn up somewhere, some how.

Of course what I REALLY want is a Pallantides mini that looks like the old McFarlane action figure.

**ced1106**

Thanks for the info. Myself, I wanted errata for the English translation spell and reference cards. Whaddaya mean I can't burst through a solid stone wall?

I'll definitely take a peek, but I'm still looking forward to Ragnorok (or however you spell it and I forgot again who the creator is.

**Monkeysloth**

Carlovonsexron wrote:
Monkeysloth wrote:

Not sure if they'll do anything for #1. That 700k funding goal is looking harder and harder to hit which existing fans only want a $30 or so upgrade. Not sure how wide of a net Conan casts as none of the other Conan skirmish games from the past 2 years have come close to funding and existing backers are split down the middle on this campaign.

To be fair, the only two I now of were by the same guys, and while the sculpts looked cool they were supposed to be pre-painted, which certainly drove off people, including myself.

I do hope those sculpts turn up somewhere, some how.

Of course what I REALLY want is a Pallantides mini that looks like the old McFarlane action figure.

I saw some of the CROM artwork in the Monolith Sourcebook from Modiphous so if the sculpts were from that one they could have ben sold off. The shinobi 7 game is supposed to try again sometime next year I think.

ced1106 wrote:Thanks for the info. Myself, I wanted errata for the English translation spell and reference cards. Whaddaya mean I can't burst through a solid stone wall?

I'll definitely take a peek, but I'm still looking forward to Ragnorok (or however you spell it and I forgot again who the creator is.

I think Monolith has all those available in a pdf download. Maybe you can find them on BGG?

Also another update posted in unoffical groups by a Monolith Employee

Greetings all,

There are a lot of comments swirling around about the faction reveal, so I figured I’d provide some further clarification.

This upcoming Kickstarter campaign (January 6th) will offer content for 3 different game modes: Versus (new), Adventure Mode (the original) and Solo/Co-op (featured briefly in the Monolith Sourcebook).
I’m hearing some comments about Monolith “ripping off” original backers and expressions of general disappointment. I’m not sure I understand this reaction, but perhaps that’s because, as an employee of the company, I have more information about the upcoming campaign. Let me share some of that info with you now.

First, we ARE offering new Adventure Mode content. It will come in the form of a book and a special box where all the new sculpts will be made available to those who just want NEW items (though there will be a few classic minis in there to increase options for solo/co-op mode). These new sculpts, as well as only core/retail box material, will be used in the brand new Adventure Mode and solo/co-op scenarios featured in that book. We want to make things accessible for ALL fans. Many found this game later than the 2015 KS and don’t have all the materials as those who went all-in.

Secondly, some folks have expressed outrage that we’re recycling sculpts. Fair enough if you feel that way, but let me explain why we took that route. Versus Mode was designed years after Adventure Mode. We could not have predicted what it would entail--how many minis it would require, the fact that the tiles would need to be bigger for additional iconography. As designers, we learn new things every time we create a game and new ideas come to us, so change is bound to occur. But this isn’t even a second edition--it’s a new game mode. In short, for this mode, you need more than what you may already own to play it, including more minis (even those of the same sculpt in some cases--more pirates, apes, demons, etc).

If we decided to commission all new sculpts for these units, the price would be MASSIVE because we want to provide multiple options for each faction (meaning lots of choices of units to field). Instead, by recycling the old sculpts, we only need to charge approximatley 5$ per box for miniatures you may already own. I understand that, for some, this is still asking too much, but if we don’t take this route, we must provide a box that is partially empty (where the old but necessary minis have been removed or without trays for those necessary minis). This would mean you’d have to dig through several old boxes every time you wanted to put a faction together.The box has to be the same dimensions either way because it has to house the new game boards included with each faction.

So...we decided the best bet was to make one box, for an excellent price that would offer a complete faction. The biggest part of the price of these boxes IS the new sculpts, which require new and expensive molds. The re-printed minis are a tiny portion of that price.

Once we reveal the other factions, you will see other “recycled minis” many of which come from specific add-ons (the Dragon, the Black Ones, Guest Boxes etc). Admittedly, it is our all-in backer who will receive the most reprints, and if they truly feel ‘ripped off’ by these new offerings, I’m not sure how else we can pitch the VS mode portion of this project, but we want to honest with you, up front, about our approach. Perhaps the Adventure Mode box (featuring the new miniatures) and scenario book are more appetizing to you (consider it a like a maxi-expansion for the original game). In any case, we appreciate your support over the years and in encouraging us to create the best games we can.
-Matt

**frankelee**

I'm kind of wondering why Monolith is doing so poor a job showing off this campaign to build hype when it's only a few weeks away. People are spending their money right now for the holidays, you'd think they'd want to grab a little mental space so people have it in mind they want to buy this in January. Even if it's not a $500 Kingdom Death style purchase, it's easy for people with a couple hundred on the credit card to just skip KS campaigns without bothering to look closely because they're "broke" for the month.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

Monolith

7 hrs ·

Fellow Gamers .
From Monday January 6, 2020 at 9:00 p.m. (UTC + 1) to Monday January 13, 2020 at 9:00 p.m. (UTC + 1), the "Conan: Beyond The Monolith" Kickstarter campaign, our first universe product for the Beyond The Monolith project, will be LIVE.

To mark the occasion, we invite you to guess the final total raised, in US Dollars, that the campaign reaches upon closing (Monday January 13 9:00 p.m. UTC + 1).

You have until midnight Sunday, January 5, to enter your bet right here in this comments thread.

The winner will be the commenter whose guess is the closest to the final result recorded by Kickstarter.

- Ties will be decided by the Facebook time code of the guess: the first accurate guess posted takes home the prize.

Rules -
- It is strictly forbidden to modify / edit a posted guess.
- The number of guesses is limited to 1 per person.

Disclaimer: This promotion is not "sponsored, endorsed or administered by, or associated with Facebook in any way.

The winner will be sent free of charge to the address they provide:

An All-in Conan
+ An All-in Mythic Battles Pantheon.
+ An All-in Batman GCC
+ An All-in Claustrophobia.

85 Kg of Fun!

**warboss**

frankelee wrote:
I'm kind of wondering why Monolith is doing so poor a job showing off this campaign to build hype when it's only a few weeks away. People are spending their money right now for the holidays, you'd think they'd want to grab a little mental space so people have it in mind they want to buy this in January. Even if it's not a $500 Kingdom Death style purchase, it's easy for people with a couple hundred on the credit card to just skip KS campaigns without bothering to look closely because they're "broke" for the month.

Maybe because they realize that most folks don't have the willpower or even realistic choice to save surplus cash during any season let alone the christmas one so it's a waste of time to promote heavily too far in advance? I don't intend that to sound snarky but I don't think there is a good way of getting that point across without that unintended tone. From a purely outsider looking in perspective following kickstarters over the past five years, I don't think alot of "common" sense works as intended in actual practice.

**frankelee**

warboss wrote:
frankelee wrote:
I'm kind of wondering why Monolith is doing so poor a job showing off this campaign to build hype when it's only a few weeks away. People are spending their money right now for the holidays, you'd think they'd want to grab a little mental space so people have it in mind they want to buy this in January. Even if it's not a $500 Kingdom Death style purchase, it's easy for people with a couple hundred on the credit card to just skip KS campaigns without bothering to look closely because they're "broke" for the month.

Maybe because they realize that most folks don't have the willpower or even realistic choice to save surplus cash during any season let alone the christmas one so it's a waste of time to promote heavily too far in advance? I don't intend that to sound snarky but I don't think there is a good way of getting that point across without that unintended tone. From a purely outsider looking in perspective following kickstarters over the past five years, I don't think alot of "common" sense works as intended in actual practice.

No snark taken, though just because your customers don't have much common sense doesn't mean it's wise to operate without it. Madison Avenue would tell you if you have access to free advertising platforms frequented by many potential customers then you definitely want to plaster your upcoming product all over it as aggressively as possible. The real time they have to worry about is the time running out before their campaign, and whatever people's thoughts are about too much hype or whatever, one month to go is never too far out to start the hype train, it's often pretty late to get started. And if they don't have time to advertise, they should fire themselves and hire someone competent immediately. I guess they have the long game of the late pledge, still, it's low on hype.

**Carlovonsexron**

Yeah, if it wasnt for this thread I would have never known about it, and I'm probably one of their target customers- a guy who is really into the Hyborian setting, really would just want the minis, and missed out on the first kickstarter so don't have any of the minis at all...

**ced1106**

Carlo, you can wait to see what Monolith offers, but also look for the Conan boardgame on sale. I'm not finding the low $70 prices anymore, but, since you're in China, a $100 copy of eBay may be worth it with the free shipping.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=conan%20boardgame&_sacat=0&_sop=16&_fsrp=1&LH_FS=1&rt=nc&_udhi=100

**Carlovonsexron**

Maybe! Ill wait until the kick starter shows up to make a decision, as I'm expecting some of the new chaos stuff to leave a dent in my hobby budget...

**Monkeysloth**

Amazon has it for $85 atm and I've seen it at other places for $70's just a month or two ago. I wouldn't be surprised to see Miniature Market or Gamenerdz put it on sale around KSer time to clear out stock as there will be a demand increase around that time and knocking some off the price is a good way to move the inventory as backers will post about it.

It is limited availability though. What's in distrubtion is all that exists as monlith doesn't keep a warehouse -- they just sent everything to Asmodee -- and there isn't plans on a reprint until they decide to do more stuff focusing on the adventure mode -- if they ever do.

**Gallahad**

A lot of the cool minis were KS exclusive for Conan, plus there are cool new minis coming. Definitely worth waiting to see what they offer in the KS imo.
I spent a lot of money trying to get the KS exclusive stuff off eBay... And I'll still probably go all in on this to get the things I just could never pull the trigger on (black ones, dragon, etc.)

**Carlovonsexron**

Indeed... Again, I'm super, super hopeful they will give us a Pallantides figure based o the McFarlane figure, or at least from the art/concept art for the Black Dragons from the MMO.

**Monkeysloth**

I kick myself for not getting the blackones back in the first two KSers but I couldn't get everything. Got a dragon though. Quite happy with that.

I'd temper expectations for anything McFarlane. He's notoriously difficult and expensive to work with.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also they've posted a graph on discount tiers based off of what of theirs you've backed before.

So since I backed Conan and Mythic Battles I get a pretty nice 20% off the monster box.

**ubik2000**

I also backed Conan and Mythic Battles, but have been following the news of this new KS minimally. I have now read this thread and tried to decipher what the hell this new project is with somewhat mixed success.

Three different game modes...compatibility with other games...multiple types of boxes...basically what I'm getting is: it's a skirmish mode for Conan.

The original Conan Kickstarter was obviously massive, and I wonder if they aren't leaning a little too heavily on the results of that for their projections. That campaign was very straightforward. Hopefully they'll figure out some clear messaging for this by the time it launches, because with a fairly high minimal goal and a short campaign, it needs to be a success right out of the gate; not a lot of time for mid-campaign tweaking.