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What optional rules do you use? - 2020 Edition  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Check all rules that are used in the majority of your games
CA 2019 Matched Play rules/points update
Organized Play - Limited Number of Datasheets aka "Rule of Three"
Organized Play - Limited Number of Detachments
Organized Play - Table Size
Warhammer Legends (Datasheets/Choices)
Forgeworld
Rules exclusive to White Dwarf
Datasheets for Blackstone Fortress miniatures
Datasheets for Kill Team miniatures (Gellerpox/Rouge Trader)
Datasheets for Open/Narrative play only (any source)
Vigilus Defiant/Ablaze
Psychic Awakening army updates
ITC 40k Tournament Format
CA 2019 Eternal War or Maelstrom
Official narrative missions (any book)
CA 2019 terrain rules
Cities of Death (full or partially)

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Longtime Dakkanaut




 Amishprn86 wrote:
Everyone should give the core rules of Cities of Death a try (lucky shot, soft/hard cover, etc..) not really the mission rules or stratagems, just that first 2 pages of rules. They are really good, its what 8th should have had from the start.

Unfortunately as long as GW insistes that you pay extra points tax for weapons based on your BS roll those rules may make terrain more relevant but it screws up the already questionable balance even more.
   
Made in ie
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 Bosskelot wrote:
 Sim-Life wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
 Sim-Life wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
 Sim-Life wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
The CA19 matched play rules updates are not "optional" if you want to play matched play


Yes it is.
If you can play the game without it, its optional. This isn't a difficult concept and I don't understand why people are having a hard time grasping it.
So by that logic the errata and Codexes are optional too? Index and BRB only with zero errata was a hellish time, especially for things like Space Wolves where 90% of the list was broken.


Yes. I know you love to whinge about how 8th Ed makes you bring several hundred documents to a game but yes, if two people buy only a rulebook and their armies codexes they can play a game even without FAQs and erratas. It may not be a good game, but its still a playable game.
That doesn't make the other rules optional, it means you're not following the rules.


Which rules? The ones printed in the BRB? Those rules?


CA supersedes and overrides whatever the BRB says.


Doesn't matter in this case. You can play the game without CA and only the BRB. CA is optional. If you buy JUST CA2019, can you play the game?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/05/15 15:37:44


 
   
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 Sim-Life wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
The CA19 matched play rules updates are not "optional" if you want to play matched play


Yes it is.
If you can play the game without it, its optional. This isn't a difficult concept and I don't understand why people are having a hard time grasping it.


Because too many people use your they are optional rules stance as justification to limit what models and offical rules others are allowed to play with, like no bringing Forgeworld, no vigilous/psyhcic awakening rules, spacemarine supliments should be banned.

Having people try and ban your fully GW legal army, sucks.
   
Made in gb
Numberless Necron Warrior




UK

 Sim-Life wrote:
Doesn't matter in this case. You can play the game without CA and only the BRB. CA is optional. If you buy JUST CA2019, can you play the game?


Well, if you're going to be this pedantic then yes, you can.

All you need to play 40k is the free rules pdf on the official website.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/15 15:43:01


 
   
Made in ie
Preacher of the Emperor





 Bosskelot wrote:
 Sim-Life wrote:
Doesn't matter in this case. You can play the game without CA and only the BRB. CA is optional. If you buy JUST CA2019, can you play the game?


Well, if you're going to be this pedantic then yes, you can.

All you need to play 40k is the free rules pdf on the official website.


If you're letting me be pendantic then you're just downloading content from the BRB, so no, you can't.

 
   
Made in gb
Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought




Nottingham

BaconCatBug wrote:The CA19 matched play rules updates are not "optional" if you want to play matched play, any more than the SM Codex is not "optional" if you want to play Space Marines. By that logic I want my Index Commissars back because the codex and errata's are "optional".

The term "optional" is not the correct term to use.

To answer the question (replacing the word "optional" with "latest"), I use all the latest matched play rules, even if I dislike them.
Matched Play is optional.

BaconCatBug wrote:That doesn't make the other rules optional, it means you're not following the rules.
No, Matched Play isn't the only way to play. Therefore, even rules that Matched Play *requires* still aren't compulsory, because Open Play and Narrative Play exist, and are equally valid.

Bosskelot wrote:All you need to play 40k is the free rules pdf on the official website.
Yeah, that's the only thing you need, plus datasheets, which one can acquire without Codexes (you usually get a datasheet in the model kit).

Anything else is *technically* optional.

I've been happy to play 40k with only the core rules and datasheets straight from the box.

Read the history of the Charadon Crusade: The Crusade of Fury was at an end.
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If you want to play matched play, they are not optional.

Furthermore, even if you play Narrative play, the matched play rules remain non-optional, you're just not using that subset of rules in the game mode you are playing. Not using certain rules in a certain game mode is not synonymous with optional.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
I've been happy to play 40k with only the core rules and datasheets straight from the box.
You're using house rules then. Nothing "wrong" with that, I just personally disagree with their use.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/05/15 15:55:09


Add me on Discord: BaconCatBug#0294 +++++List of "broken" RaW in Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
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Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
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Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Sim-Life wrote:
Jackal90 wrote:
Technically, not every rule there is optional.

Using specific formats always is (but forms a lot of my games)

Stuff like PA, FW etc is part of the game, not an optional extra.


PA rules are optional supplements and FW are optional models. They are not required to play the game.

Technically you can just make an army from FW for Space Marines so...

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
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Nottingham

 BaconCatBug wrote:
If you want to play matched play, they are not optional.
Yeah, but Matched Play is one of three ways to play. Therefore, Matched Play itself is optional. If something is needed for Matched Play, that doesn't change that Matched Play is an optional way to play.

Furthermore, even if you play Narrative play, the matched play rules remain non-optional
No, they're not. What rules are non-optional? If I don't play with points, if I don't use detachments, and I don't use anything beyond the core rules, what part of the Matched Play rules do I *need*?
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
I've been happy to play 40k with only the core rules and datasheets straight from the box.
You're using house rules then. Nothing "wrong" with that, I just personally disagree with their use.
That's not house rules. That's the most basic form of the rules. What part of the rules am I breaking by only playing with the most basic rules, and the most basic datasheets to use those rules?

What part of playing with the most basic rules is 'house rules'?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/05/15 16:02:53


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 BaconCatBug wrote:
If you want to play matched play, they are not optional.

Furthermore, even if you play Narrative play, the matched play rules remain non-optional, you're just not using that subset of rules in the game mode you are playing. Not using certain rules in a certain game mode is not synonymous with optional.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
I've been happy to play 40k with only the core rules and datasheets straight from the box.
You're using house rules then. Nothing "wrong" with that, I just personally disagree with their use.


yet he's still playing 40k, so by your own admission, the core rule + datasheets are enough to play 40k.

I'd say the only thing you need are minis or something that represent the minis to play 40k.
If i play using quarters as my guardsman and a tissue box as a leman russ and to check if we do damage its a simple roll off, i'd say that because youre playing these as if they were classic 40k units, youre playing 40k.

Admech 5000
Drukhari 4000
2500
500
Imperial knights 1200

 
   
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Norn Queen






You keep using the word "optional" when that is not the correct word. Do I need to break out The Princess Bride?

Add me on Discord: BaconCatBug#0294 +++++List of "broken" RaW in Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
+++++List of documents required to play Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
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Ice_can wrote:
 Amishprn86 wrote:
Everyone should give the core rules of Cities of Death a try (lucky shot, soft/hard cover, etc..) not really the mission rules or stratagems, just that first 2 pages of rules. They are really good, its what 8th should have had from the start.

Unfortunately as long as GW insistes that you pay extra points tax for weapons based on your BS roll those rules may make terrain more relevant but it screws up the already questionable balance even more.


From my games its more balanced and changes the tactics. You'll have players running up small 5mans on top of builds to stop DSing onto those. Its a game changer for sure but you just play it different;y. It has its own meta and that isn't bad just like how ITC is its own meta. Yes different things are better, but why is that bad? Why should every game/mission have the same "good units"?

I fully feel everyone should try a few times.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/05/15 16:10:09


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Nottingham

 BaconCatBug wrote:
You keep using the word "optional" when that is not the correct word. Do I need to break out The Princess Bride?
Matched Play isn't the only way to play 40k. Therefore, it is an optional way to play, optional meaning "available to be chosen but not obligatory".
Demonstrate to me otherwise.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/15 16:11:48


Read the history of the Charadon Crusade: The Crusade of Fury was at an end.
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Preacher of the Emperor





 BaconCatBug wrote:
You keep using the word "optional" when that is not the correct word. Do I need to break out The Princess Bride?



optional
/ˈɒpʃ(ə)n(ə)l/
adjective
available to be chosen but not obligatory.


I think it's you that's confused about its meaning.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/15 16:12:24


 
   
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Norn Queen






 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
You keep using the word "optional" when that is not the correct word. Do I need to break out The Princess Bride?
Matched Play isn't the only way to play 40k. Therefore, it is an optional way to play, optional meaning "available to be chosen but not obligatory".
Demonstrate to me otherwise.
The choice of game mode is optional. The rules for those game modes are not.

Add me on Discord: BaconCatBug#0294 +++++List of "broken" RaW in Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
+++++List of documents required to play Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
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Preacher of the Emperor





 BaconCatBug wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
You keep using the word "optional" when that is not the correct word. Do I need to break out The Princess Bride?
Matched Play isn't the only way to play 40k. Therefore, it is an optional way to play, optional meaning "available to be chosen but not obligatory".
Demonstrate to me otherwise.
The choice of game mode is optional. The rules for those game modes are not.


The rules for the game modes are in the non-optional BRB. The additions and improvments to those rules are in optional addition documents.

 
   
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Nottingham

BaconCatBug wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
You keep using the word "optional" when that is not the correct word. Do I need to break out The Princess Bride?
Matched Play isn't the only way to play 40k. Therefore, it is an optional way to play, optional meaning "available to be chosen but not obligatory".
Demonstrate to me otherwise.
The choice of game mode is optional. The rules for those game modes are not.
So if the game mode is optional, the rules for those game modes are also optional.

Let's say I'm given a choice between playing 5v5 football, FIFA-reg football, or Rush Goalie - optional. The rules in FIFA reg are compulsory only for FIFA reg, not for 5v5. Therefore, the rules for FIFA reg are optional.

Read the history of the Charadon Crusade: The Crusade of Fury was at an end.
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NE Ohio, USA

Jackal90 wrote:
Technically, not every rule there is optional.

Stuff like PA, FW etc is part of the game, not an optional extra.


You might argue that PA isn't optional, but that doesn't stop me from not owning & not using them for my armies. Doesn't bother anyone I play with & I'm not attending or concerned with your tourney scenes.
This will change for my Ad-Mech - assuming that's where the rules for that goofy looking flyer appear. If so I'll get that book.
Now if my opponent wants to use PA stuff in their armies that's cool.



   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






ccs wrote:
Jackal90 wrote:
Technically, not every rule there is optional.

Stuff like PA, FW etc is part of the game, not an optional extra.


You might argue that PA isn't optional, but that doesn't stop me from not owning & not using them for my armies. Doesn't bother anyone I play with & I'm not attending or concerned with your tourney scenes.
This will change for my Ad-Mech - assuming that's where the rules for that goofy looking flyer appear. If so I'll get that book.
Now if my opponent wants to use PA stuff in their armies that's cool.
And by that logic using dice is also optional. It's almost like declaring everything "optional" means the game doesn't function.

Add me on Discord: BaconCatBug#0294 +++++List of "broken" RaW in Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
+++++List of documents required to play Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
Mathhammer tables for 2D6 and 3D6 Charging with various re-roll abilities || Stylus CSS theme for DakkaDakka forums to hide black avatar background and fully hide ignored users. || Userscript to add a button to open all "[First Unread]" links on the page, hides the "[Blog View]" links, and adds a "Subscribed Threads" link to forum pages.  
   
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NE Ohio, USA

 BaconCatBug wrote:
ccs wrote:
Jackal90 wrote:
Technically, not every rule there is optional.

Stuff like PA, FW etc is part of the game, not an optional extra.


You might argue that PA isn't optional, but that doesn't stop me from not owning & not using them for my armies. Doesn't bother anyone I play with & I'm not attending or concerned with your tourney scenes.
This will change for my Ad-Mech - assuming that's where the rules for that goofy looking flyer appear. If so I'll get that book.
Now if my opponent wants to use PA stuff in their armies that's cool.
And by that logic using dice is also optional. It's almost like declaring everything "optional" means the game doesn't function.


As long as you can generate random #s between 1-6? Then yes, the dice are optional. Convenient, bit optional.

   
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All rules are technically optional, thats why we have house rules events like ITC.

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 Amishprn86 wrote:
All rules are technically optional, thats why we have house rules events like ITC.


That's going down the of hypotheticals which pointless because hypothetically I have the option to kick my opponent in the balls, take his stuff and claim I won.

 
   
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Dante has the regular chapter master aura. As does the other snowflake chapter masters.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Amishprn86 wrote:
All rules are technically optional, thats why we have house rules events like ITC.


Especially GW's garbage rules.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/15 18:22:15


 
   
Made in us
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 Sim-Life wrote:
 Amishprn86 wrote:
All rules are technically optional, thats why we have house rules events like ITC.


That's going down the of hypotheticals which pointless because hypothetically I have the option to kick my opponent in the balls, take his stuff and claim I won.


Its a valid point tho, even the Ro3 is just a suggestion. You are the one Hyperboling "I can kick you in the balls if i want". When talking to your opponent you can suggest a rule change or a different set of rules at anytime. It is actually somewhat common in many play groups/areas.

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 Amishprn86 wrote:
 Sim-Life wrote:
 Amishprn86 wrote:
All rules are technically optional, thats why we have house rules events like ITC.


That's going down the of hypotheticals which pointless because hypothetically I have the option to kick my opponent in the balls, take his stuff and claim I won.


Its a valid point tho, even the Ro3 is just a suggestion. You are the one Hyperboling "I can kick you in the balls if i want". When talking to your opponent you can suggest a rule change or a different set of rules at anytime. It is actually somewhat common in many play groups/areas.


Fair enough. But most people use the BRB framework for their house rules still.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/15 18:58:00


 
   
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Nottingham

 BaconCatBug wrote:
It's almost like declaring everything "optional" means the game doesn't function.
The only things that you *need* to play are a collection of models, dice, a tape measure, datasheets for the models you're using, and the core rules (ie, how to use the datasheets with the dice and models), from my RAW understanding of the game.

Everything beyond that is an optional addition to the game.

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 BaconCatBug wrote:
If you want to play matched play, they are not optional.

Furthermore, even if you play Narrative play, the matched play rules remain non-optional, you're just not using that subset of rules in the game mode you are playing. Not using certain rules in a certain game mode is not synonymous with optional.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
I've been happy to play 40k with only the core rules and datasheets straight from the box.
You're using house rules then. Nothing "wrong" with that, I just personally disagree with their use.


He's not using house rules. Every rule he uses is printed by GW. He's just choosing to play open. That's valid.

No one is saying you have to. No one is trying to limit what anyone else can play with. All this dude is saying is that it is possible to play that way, and it absolutely is. I wouldn't personally do it, just because I think it would be boring.

And to insist that because you need a book because it contains matched play rules if you never plan to play matched play is just kinda... Missing the point. Remember Y'all, this ain't a thread about how you think everybody else should play. It's a thread about how YOU play.

So BCB, OBVIOUSLY, you like matched play better than open, and therefore, for you, the BRB is required. Valid. OP wanted to catch that information. Thanks for contributing.

SGT Smudge obviously sometimes at least, likes playing open, and so sometimes enjoys games that don't require the BRB. GW intended for that to be possible, and OP wanted to know whether anyone ever actually does that. Now OP knows. Thanks SGT Smudge.

See how one need not tear down another's viewpoint in order for one's own viewpoint to be valid? Neat eh? Everybody wins. Go figure.

House rules my a$$.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/16 00:15:55


 
   
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 greatbigtree wrote:
Hey, Jakal,

Do you get the core concept here? Whether or not you agree that things are optional, Jidmah is asking what resources you use in addition to core rule book and the most current Codex for your faction/s.

Jidmah, if I misrepresented your core concept, please let me know.

Yes, this would be correct.

Also, for future polls it might be an idea to have a line that just says, “I voted” to compare total number of voters. Someone might not use any, but couldn’t vote to indicate that.

I tried that in the past, but it doesn't really work out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
 Sim-Life wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
The CA19 matched play rules updates are not "optional" if you want to play matched play


Yes it is.
If you can play the game without it, its optional. This isn't a difficult concept and I don't understand why people are having a hard time grasping it.
So by that logic the errata and Codexes are optional too? Index and BRB only with zero errata was a hellish time, especially for things like Space Wolves where 90% of the list was broken.


Whether you use a codex or an index to find your army rules is irrelevant to this poll. Having one or the other is not optional, because you can't play the game without datasheets.
The poll is not a full list of optional rules. It's a list of rules that I regularly read about people using or not using. The amount of people not using codices is extremely small and of no interest to me.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
You keep using the word "optional" when that is not the correct word. Do I need to break out The Princess Bride?


There are multiple people here on dakka claiming that their play groups have decided to stick with BRB+Indexes, and they are playing fully functional games of WH40k 8th edition. This is proof that every rules resource released afterwards and all their contents are optional.

You can play a functionally complete game without CA 2019. Therefore all content of 2019, including the matched rule update, is optional.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2020/05/16 09:00:46


 Daedalus81 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Yes, because everyone lines up on the deployment line when facing off against orkz, especially when said orkz are fielding 3 Bonebreakers...which rely exclusively on getting into CC to inflict any kind of actual harm. All of your arguments rely upon your opponent being a brain dead muppet who just lets you maul him.


Yea...that's called board control.
 
   
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And I can drive a car without break-lights. It doesn't make them optional.

Add me on Discord: BaconCatBug#0294 +++++List of "broken" RaW in Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
+++++List of documents required to play Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
Mathhammer tables for 2D6 and 3D6 Charging with various re-roll abilities || Stylus CSS theme for DakkaDakka forums to hide black avatar background and fully hide ignored users. || Userscript to add a button to open all "[First Unread]" links on the page, hides the "[Blog View]" links, and adds a "Subscribed Threads" link to forum pages.  
   
Made in ie
Preacher of the Emperor





 BaconCatBug wrote:
And I can drive a car without break-lights. It doesn't make them optional.


Achkyually...

 
   
 
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