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Karol wrote:
Only next day one of the people that invited me to start w40k, told me at school that what I did was stupid, and that I should never do stuff like that again, because I am making them look bad too.

This was the strangest game of w40k I ever had.

The game itself doesn't sound strange, but just against someone who really didn't care to play and was extremely casual about it. Honestly somewhat rude it sounds like, but otherwise not totally abnormal

Strange reaction from your school friends though - forbidding you playing other people?

nah, playing wasn't a problem. just not acting stupid. I have problems with acting wrong sometimes, main reason why I go to a sports school in the first place. Rules are clear and easy to follow. normal school was horrible to go through. Took me some time to realise how the store worked, but I think in the end I had it more or less figured out.

To me the game was bizzar, because he was wasting my and his time and money. If he told me he didn't want to play or wanted to play someone else, I would have understood it better. Only later it was explained to me that he was tanking his score, so that his friend could get prizes for 4th place.

Was a 14:7 lose for me, which was one of the better scores I had in my entire run, mostly because we didn't get to turn 3, so 900pts of my stuff that was off the table didn't count as destroyed, and he didn't finish some of my characters and squads. Back then I didn't know that the meta game could be as complicated as in sports. And to be honest I even liked it, add another layer to the game.

 greatbigtree wrote:
I used to play against a dice thrower, back in yee olde days. Like, across the room.

I played against a guy that modeled fedoras onto his Space Marines. They had to earn them, so the "newbies" didn't have fedoras yet. Onto the helmets, not onto bare heads. He modeled fedoras onto the helmets.

I know I've played against people with mild personality quirks too, but those were the ones that stand out the most.

M’lady.

I would actually love to see fedora space marines. You wouldn’t happen to have a picture, would you?

Karol wrote:
nah, playing wasn't a problem. just not acting stupid. I have problems with acting wrong sometimes, main reason why I go to a sports school in the first place. Rules are clear and easy to follow. normal school was horrible to go through. Took me some time to realise how the store worked, but I think in the end I had it more or less figured out.

To me the game was bizzar, because he was wasting my and his time and money. If he told me he didn't want to play or wanted to play someone else, I would have understood it better. Only later it was explained to me that he was tanking his score, so that his friend could get prizes for 4th place.

Was a 14:7 lose for me, which was one of the better scores I had in my entire run, mostly because we didn't get to turn 3, so 900pts of my stuff that was off the table didn't count as destroyed, and he didn't finish some of my characters and squads. Back then I didn't know that the meta game could be as complicated as in sports. And to be honest I even liked it, add another layer to the game.

if he wanted to tank his score they where more effective ways he could do it while making it more fun for you. (taking a shooty army and only meleeing or something.)

I think in your shoes though given this was an event and he was deliberatly wasting time I proably would talked to the store owner (whom sounds like he saw what was happening) and asked him to make a forfeit ruling.

My funniest game experience was and always will be when I went to the game store in my home town, where I was bored on summer break so I decided to go get some 40k in. I ended up playing against the guy in the back who didn't have an opponent yet (bit of a red flag, lol) and he had the standard competitive 5th ed list of GK draigo-star+a couple dreadknights.

I was getting slaughtered with my orks, but I managed to get Old Zogwart within 18" of draigo and used his Zogwart's Curse ability.

This was an extremely simple ability. I believe it read something like this

"Zogwart's Curse. Old Zogwart may make a psychic test and select an enemy character within 18" and within line of sight. The players then roll off. If the player controlling Zogwart wins, the enemy character is removed from play and replaced with a squig with the following statline (Something like S4, A1, W1, T4, Sv-). The character does not count as having been slain, and remains the warlord if he was the warlord, but he loses any warlord trait rule he might have had."

My opponent probably spent 20 full minutes standing in front of me, reading and re-reading the rule and scowling, occasionally blurting out something like

"But he has to get an invulnerable save!"

"It's not an attack."

"But he has ETERNAL WARRIOR!"

"Doesn't say anything about that."

"But he's attached to a squad - the paladins can use their bodyguard ability!"

"But it's not an attack."

Eventually, he decided that unless I provide a squig model, LEGALLY draigo cannot be replaced with a squig.

So I walked into the shop, bought a pack of fantasy squig herders, opened them up in front of him, and plunked a squig down on the board. To this day, most worthwhile 12 bucks I've ever spent on the hobby.

Not that crazy of a story. I started off with a 40k Thousand Sons Army and I was known around the shop as the guy who tried really hard to have a well painted army but was absolutely horrible at the game. I didn't have any money so I had a slow growing army that was always behind the meta and honestly I just enjoyed the hobby/lore aspect of the game more than playing. I think in 4 years of playing in that shop I never came close to winning.

There was one guy - very typical WAAC, smelly, neckbeard, doesn't paint his miniatures, keeps them balled up in a tackle box, blows all his money on the latest/best army, you probably know the type. Everyone is hanging out and pairing up to play games, talking trash to each other, building their army lists and this guy decides he is going to bet a friend he can destroy me so bad he doesn't lose a single guy. I had no idea this was going down and just thought ok.. if I have to I'll play this guy. He's using Tau which at the time I think their main tactic was marker lights, broadside, kill everything and basically retreat into a corner. I have two units of the old rubric marines which were super slow but could always shoot, Ahriman, some raptors, a dreadnaught, and a borrowed rhino. He is just absolutely destroying me.

At some point during the game he is using his Commander to do the old jump over terrain, shoot, and then jump back over terrain to block LOS. He forgets to jump back over the terrain and ends his turn. I take that opportunity and focus fire to kill his commander. Granted at this point there is absolutely no way I'm winning. I just want to finish out the game and try to get to one of the objectives and try to get some victory points.

He loses his mind. First he tells me his turn isn't over. Then he tries to say that I moved his model out of the terrain it was behind. Then he says I was cheating because I distracted him near the end of his turn. I am super confused at this point because he's winning by a long shot and it really doesn't matter. I start to move my guys back to where they were at the start of my turn to let him 'finish his turn'. Unfortunately for him the guy he bet is sitting watching the game and is like no pay up guy you lost a unit, stop trying to cheat you made a mistake and he killed one of your units. The guy I'm playing picks up his commander and throws him in the trash, puts his hand on the table and sweeps his entire army back into the tackle box he is using to transport them and leaves. The guy who won the bet then tells me the guy bet him $50 dollars he wouldn't lose a single unit to me.

I didn't see the guy I played for a couple months. When he finally came into the shop he wouldn't even look at me. Everyone we played with gave him endless amounts of crap because the story slowly warped into I beat him and he got so mad he conceded. Which really ticked him off.

 Overread wrote:

Racerguy180 wrote:

This isnt weird, weird would he actually breaking your models when they die.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plUPJ0inN4c

It takes 9 mins to actually get to it and then there's screaming noise metal but yeah - the one and only original sacrifice of an army to a new rules edition/game.

I'd forgotten that lunacy existed...

the_scotsman wrote:
My funniest game experience was and always will be when I went to the game store in my home town, where I was bored on summer break so I decided to go get some 40k in. I ended up playing against the guy in the back who didn't have an opponent yet (bit of a red flag, lol) and he had the standard competitive 5th ed list of GK draigo-star+a couple dreadknights.

I was getting slaughtered with my orks, but I managed to get Old Zogwart within 18" of draigo and used his Zogwart's Curse ability.

This was an extremely simple ability. I believe it read something like this

"Zogwart's Curse. Old Zogwart may make a psychic test and select an enemy character within 18" and within line of sight. The players then roll off. If the player controlling Zogwart wins, the enemy character is removed from play and replaced with a squig with the following statline (Something like S4, A1, W1, T4, Sv-). The character does not count as having been slain, and remains the warlord if he was the warlord, but he loses any warlord trait rule he might have had."

My opponent probably spent 20 full minutes standing in front of me, reading and re-reading the rule and scowling, occasionally blurting out something like

"But he has to get an invulnerable save!"

"It's not an attack."

"But he has ETERNAL WARRIOR!"

"Doesn't say anything about that."

"But he's attached to a squad - the paladins can use their bodyguard ability!"

"But it's not an attack."

Eventually, he decided that unless I provide a squig model, LEGALLY draigo cannot be replaced with a squig.

So I walked into the shop, bought a pack of fantasy squig herders, opened them up in front of him, and plunked a squig down on the board. To this day, most worthwhile 12 bucks I've ever spent on the hobby.

There was always an urban legend doing the round when I got into this hobby that at a tournament somewhere someone was vehemently claiming Morgiana Le Fay could not, in fact turn his Slann mage priest into a frog as he was already one, albeit a larger one.

Given what I now know 20+ years later I can absolutely see that being true.

I once saw someone actually put a dread into a sock and threatened to dreadsock someone, but they got talked out of it.

Another was seeing a mid 40's "plus size" gentleman get very aggressively celebratory for Vortex Grenading a 13 year olds Monolith during an Apoc game once.

I've had a couple of weird ones in the past

- Played a large Apocalypse game back in 4th in a GW, where the theme was "for every model you kill, you get a penny off your Games Day ticket". I was using my Guard at the time, and fired my Basilisk a good 90" or so at a squad of Devastators right on the other end of the board.

I must have been around 14 at the time, and this 50 year old neckbeard starts throwing a tantrum saying he'd get a cover save from a Valkyrie that's roughly halfway between the Basilisk and the Devs. I argued that as it's a Barrage weapon, you would only get cover from being in terrain. Wherever this is correct or not I'm not sure now, but the GW staff sided with me, and the sheer petulance coming off the guy was incredible. The ironic part is that we were playing with the endless reserve rule, where your destroyed units come back next turn, he just didn't want me getting 5p off my Games Day ticket.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another encounter I had much more recently was a small tournament during 8th Edition. This was a simple "12 players, £10 buy-in" scenario in the FLGS over one day, nothing too extreme. The lists were pretty competitive however (I myself was running triple Knights), but spirits were all high until the last game.

I was playing the top player, who was running a Raven Castellan (before the nerf), as well as a Tallarn Battation with 3x Tank Commanders. During the game I noticed his Guardsmen were moving around 24" a turn, he essentially had at least 4 objectives at the end of his first turn. I questioned him on it and his response was:

"I'm advancing the unit and putting the Move Move Move order on them so they can move the same amount again"

Now this is incorrect for two reasons

1: Orders are done in the Shooting Phase, not the Movement Phase.
2: You must still make a new Advance roll.

For point 1, his attitude was "eh well this just saves time. For the second point, he started going into weird references such as "If you look at this entry in the BRB and cross-reference it with the Tyranid FAQ, you could interpret it as this...", I think it was made more complicated by the fact that English wasn't his first language; His English was very good, almost fluent, except when you tried to argue against him, at which point suddenly he can't understand you.

Turns out he had been doing this trick all day, and combined with incredible amounts of inch-checking and LoS-arguing, won the tournament by a fair margin. Overall he was treating the one-day FLGS tournament like the LVO, which put a sour taste in my mouth and put me off the tournament scene for good.

It got even weirder though as a couple of weeks later he adds me on Facebook and starts trying to argue his point further, with the addition of "these guys (can't remember who he stated) are the best in the country and they run it this way", as if it makes any difference. I eventually got blunt and just told him to leave it before blocking him.

Well, might as well post some too.

Back home at my local GW there was a guy named Steve. Steve would always follow the same pattern of coming in, getting in a massive shouting match with someone and getting banned from the store. Now, our local was a kind of training facility for the area so it had a fairly high rotation of staff. Steve would wait for there to be an unrecognised staff member, come in and get invited to the weekly games night. Rinse and repeat.

I only had the pleasure of playing him once and he went berserk on me over LOS with his War Walkers, which he literally threw in his case after losing said argument. He thought pointing them up gave them LOS, to which the staff replied "Go behind that building and look up. If you can see the shop then you have LOS." .
There are numerous such incidents to name like when it took a group of us far too long to convince him that 11" was not 12". Friend was playing him and fired a Meltagun at his Avatar (this was in 3rd, so it wasn't immune) and it was only just in range. Steve's turn- he walks forwards then get to the assault phase and has to roll a difficult terrain test and rolls a 5. All of a sudden he is magically in assault range.
My friend is playing the then brand new Tau with his TS (3.5 codex. They had a lot going for them with 2 wounds ). He has his Sorcerer Lord behind a small terrain piece, hidden and ready to pounce on the Tau in the following turn. Steve comes across and "borrows" said terrain piece for the game he is setting up. Sorcerer proceeds to get shot off the board.
He is playing another game and his Falcon gets stunned/shaken (whichever one was the lowest and just "may not shoot".). Steve then proceeds in the following turn to shoot with it. We tell him it cannot, to which he replies "It may not move!". We tell him he is mistaken and he gets more and more agitated eventually screaming at the top of his lungs "IT. MAY. NOT. MOVE!" which prompted the staffer eating his Subway in the back room to pop his head round and ban him.

There was the small kid who would go around every table and ask "Are dey Dark Eldar?" at literally every player's army. Those Plague Marines- "Are dey Dark Eldar?". Tyranids- "Are dey Dark Eldar?" and so on...

Another GW store. More oddballs. Now, I'm debating posting this one as the conclusion of this is more sad/tragic than anything and isn't exactly something for our amusement, but it was a weird experience looking back. There was a guy that would come to our store that we nicknamed "Crazy Mike", now Mike wasn't all there. He would mutter to himself and talk to his minis. Kinda odd, but nothing I hadn't seen before in nerd circles. Mike all of a sudden disappeared one day. We heard rumours he'd become homeless and ended up in a hostel, turns out it was much worse than that. Him and his brother ended up having some kind of mental degradation that took their minds back to the age of a child, they were even in a documentary on Channel 4 a few years back. It's incredibly jarring looking back as Mike was a semi regular opponent with us just thinking he's a run of the mill oddball that usually populates GW but it seems very obvious something was up with the benefit of hindsight.

We had another guy we called "Stressed John". John had that look like he'd be on top of the clock tower with a rifle any day now. It kinda felt bad to play him as he'd be so despondent when his model's died. One day, he was playing another player who carelessly dropped the lid of his case on top of John's army. There was no malice in it, but it was still bloody ignorant. John flies into a rage and goes to try and murder the other guy. Now, John was a skinny feth and the other guy was the exact opposite. John starts throwing punches and the other guy is like Shrek with the arrow in his bum and not noticing at all. Never saw him much after that.

I know there are more but that's all I can recall for now.

At a FLGS there was a large, plus-size guy with full neckbeard, often looked like he needed a shower. Nice person, played orks, and laughed at everything. He'd be around the store a lot but I'd never see him buy anything, just talk and build ork vehicles from nice looking cardstock printouts. I think the owner knew him and let him hang out. If he beat an army he'd never beaten before he'd ebay-purchase some heads from said army and add them to his warboss's pole. Physically he was very disabled - or seemed to be. He could barely walk, something about construction accidents earlier in his life that ruined his back and legs. I'm not certain if any of it was true as no one could cooborate it, but I took him at his word.

The last 40k FLGS tournament I participated in was in 7th edition. I had fluffy Eldar with aspect warriors and some Harlequins. I took only a few scatterbikes just to be slightly competitive. Second game in I'm paired with ork guy. I had never gone against him before or seen him play, I just thought he was a jolly middle aged man that had seen misfortune in his life and enjoyed his orks. If you recall 7th, Eldar just beat Orks, almost without exception. He states he has to sit in his chair for the game due to medical stuff so I help him move his orks around, always asking if x is here he wants them, etc. No problems there. His turn one takes forever - a disabled guy playing a horde army - and he does nothing to my Eldar even if he takes nearly all objectives with his horde. My turn one goes fast and I wipe out half his force from range, but can't yet move in to get objectives.

His turn two starts and suddenly he's out of his chair, sort of hobbling but looks fake. Spends a lot of time thinking about moves, making odd jokes about orks to himself, asking for help moving a unit only to walk over to it and move it back himself later, telling me how great it would be if he could add an Eldar head to his bosspole, and showing me random pictures on his phone of really poorly painted Dark Eldar he claims his wife recently finished that he was so proud of. It was very odd and it was one of the strangest delay tactics - if that's what it was - I've ever seen. Guy has nearly all the objectives with what's his that remains and time is called before his turn two is over, so he wins.

I thank him for the game, shake his hand, and help him pack his army away since now the game is over he suddenly can't walk anymore. He doesn't have any more images to show me or ork jokes to muse about. Talks a lot about how excited he is to add an Eldar head to the pole. After I pack away and head to the store front the owner was really surprised I lost, given it was an Eldar vs. Ork matchup in 7th. He gave me a strange look when I explained how it happened. I never saw ork guy at the store again. I don't know if he really did have health problems and they caught up to him, or if the owner had to have a chat.

 Grimtuff wrote:
Well, might as well post some too.

Back home at my local GW there was a guy named Steve. Steve would always follow the same pattern of coming in, getting in a massive shouting match with someone and getting banned from the store. Now, our local was a kind of training facility for the area so it had a fairly high rotation of staff. Steve would wait for there to be an unrecognised staff member, come in and get invited to the weekly games night. Rinse and repeat.

That is almost dead on for someone who went to the store I did...

As many will know, I’m a former GW Till Monkey, so I’ve seen my fair share of odd behaviour. So many, it’s genuinely hard to give specific examples.

All I’d say is to keep in mind this Hobby has an appeal to those with lower social skills, and health issues such as autism and Aspergers.

I've got a couple I can share.

These are recent to semi-recent (within the last two years).

Disclaimer/Full Disclosure: I work part time at a FLGS here locally, though I took a hiatus from working there as my wife and I had a baby girl in January, my stories come from both playing/being a member of the community as well as being an employee at the store itself.

We have some very talented players and painters in the store, but we also have the odd few birds as well.

The first one, though there has been some improvement recently thank goodness, is notorious for poor hygiene. This isn't 100% his fault, as he is very much on the spectrum and though I am NO doctor, it seems to be Asperger-like in symptoms. He often smells very bad, and looks like he hasn't showered in days, in addition to never having clean clothes on. He's in his mid 30's, but has the mentality of a 14 to 16 year old. Nice enough guy but can be very loud, over bearing and 'clingy' (made more difficult with his odor), often wanting to inject himself into conversations at awkward times. It can be difficult & frustrating to play with him around, and many have taken to having to tell him to quiet down or calm down, while being polite & understanding of the mental issues & circumstances outside of his control. He's kinda jumped from game-to-game (Star Wars X-Wing, various card games) before finally settling on 40k. The silver lining is that he's improving a bit on the hygiene front at least, and hopefully over time will learn to be less prone to be quite so loud and, for lack of a better term, obnoxious (to be around, not that he's overtly being obnoxious consciously).

The second one hasn't been coming around any more. I call him the giant man baby. Sadly, I actually invested some time and effort into bringing this guy into the community much to my chagrin. He wound up being a massive cheater, and even more massive poor sport despite sinking thousands of dollars into the hobby and time to get at least one army fully painted. If a game even started to look like it was not going his way, he would turn into the aforementioned giant man-baby and just start picking his models up (Space marines, mind you) without even taking their saves when they were wounded on an enemy turn. If he was winning, he was up beat and happy to be playing. If he was losing, he literally made the entire room know it and was just a horrible person to be around. In one tournament that comes to mind, he was playing another friend of mine and after a particularly bad turn for him, he sat down at the table, pulled a Nintendo switch out and plugged earphones in before starting to play it, instead of engaging with his opponent. No more conversation, wouldn't roll dice, just picked up models without rolling saves and didn't move or shoot on his turn. It was sad. He just checked out of the game, and gave up in the middle of the match. He didn't get many invitations for games after that stunt. I felt bad for him in a sense, but he put himself into the situation he wound up in.

The icing on the cake was when I tried to help him and give him the feedback from the rest of the community (along with the store owner, as I was employed at the FLGS I mentioned above when I met him/brought him into the hobby and we both wanted him to be a part of the community if he wanted to be), he flat told us he wouldn't apologize for his behavior and that it was just how he was and if people didn't like it, that was their problem. It got so bad that he refused to even speak with me after a time, telling the store owner that he was "afraid of me". I'd never done anything to the guy beyond try to help him and while I'm no small guy (6' tall), he made me look small by comparison with his height and girth. He doesn't/hasn't been coming around the store anymore that I've seen, though I only work one day a week currently. It's possible he's up there when I'm not. C'est-la-vie.

The ole adage, good riddance to bad rubbish springs to mind regarding this guy.

That's all I'll add for now. Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

@the scotsman.

To be fair to your opponent that spell is horrible game design. And being on the receiving end of it just isn't fun at all. It takes real good sportsmanship to laugh that off.

Red Thirst! Congrats on the child! Good luck with her!

 JNAProductions wrote:
Red Thirst! Congrats on the child! Good luck with her!

Thank you! She's our miracle baby & we're kinda in love. Hoping she'll be equal parts girly girl and tabletop nerd with me.

Appreciate the well wishes!

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Nothing overly crazy in 40K for me I think..

I do remember trying 2nd edition for first time. Local store owner where I bought my new DA army says he will play me for my first game, He has chaos. I wasn't familiar with the rules, so he basically waffle stomps me with every combo he can conjure, explaining how awesome it is and how it just destroyed my army (including some vortex grenade thing that assassinates Azrael?). Cool, yeah that was fun, had a great time. First and last game of 2nd edition...sold army soon after. I mean dude, you're the store owner.....you want me to buy more, yeah?

Other one was at local FLGS, great place, really miss it (and still game with the people I met there). This weird guy (not really bad in any way, just different to the usual people in there socially...no big deal) showed up to events and set up a camera to film the games, and narrate into the camera. Horrible painted army, with tacked on weapons everywhere, just really poor visually. Little did I know that this dude was just way ahead of everyone else in respect to Youtube batrep channels, lol. Now they're everywhere.....but with better painted models.

Funniest non game related experience was me basically facilitating a sale of an XBox between a guy in the shop and a friend of mine. Anyway, my buddy comes back to me after buying the XBox, hands me a DVD that was left in the console and says "you may want to give this back". I think it was called Jungle Princess or something. Some cheap porno, lol. Poor guy disappeared for awhile after that.

the_scotsman wrote:

Eventually, he decided that unless I provide a squig model, LEGALLY draigo cannot be replaced with a squig.

So I walked into the shop, bought a pack of fantasy squig herders, opened them up in front of him, and plunked a squig down on the board. To this day, most worthwhile 12 bucks I've ever spent on the hobby.

IIRC the spell does say: "You must provide a squig model". That last one might be technically correct.

In friendly play, I would probably just take my character off the board, though, I don't really care that much in casual play. But in a competitive setting I might be kind of irritated though, because that would mean that you deliberately baked using this spell offensively into your list and also deliberately didn't bring squig model, and resolving the spell and then going "oh, I don't have a squig so you don't get your squig, but the spell goes anyway" sounds like getting away with something.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

Eventually, he decided that unless I provide a squig model, LEGALLY draigo cannot be replaced with a squig.

So I walked into the shop, bought a pack of fantasy squig herders, opened them up in front of him, and plunked a squig down on the board. To this day, most worthwhile 12 bucks I've ever spent on the hobby.

IIRC the spell does say: "You must provide a squig model". That last one might be technically correct.

In friendly play, I would probably just take my character off the board, though, I don't really care that much in casual play. But in a competitive setting I might be kind of irritated though, because that would mean that you deliberately baked using this spell offensively into your list and also deliberately didn't bring squig model, and resolving the spell and then going "oh, I don't have a squig so you don't get your squig, but the spell goes anyway" sounds like getting away with something.

Every iteration of Gift of Chaos I've ever seen has specified that the target dies whether or not you have an extra Spawn model but you don't get the free Spawn model unless you have one. I know it's a different power but it sounds like a reasonable extrapolation to me.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

Eventually, he decided that unless I provide a squig model, LEGALLY draigo cannot be replaced with a squig.

So I walked into the shop, bought a pack of fantasy squig herders, opened them up in front of him, and plunked a squig down on the board. To this day, most worthwhile 12 bucks I've ever spent on the hobby.

IIRC the spell does say: "You must provide a squig model". That last one might be technically correct.

In friendly play, I would probably just take my character off the board, though, I don't really care that much in casual play. But in a competitive setting I might be kind of irritated though, because that would mean that you deliberately baked using this spell offensively into your list and also deliberately didn't bring squig model, and resolving the spell and then going "oh, I don't have a squig so you don't get your squig, but the spell goes anyway" sounds like getting away with something.

Every iteration of Gift of Chaos I've ever seen has specified that the target dies whether or not you have an extra Spawn model but you don't get the free Spawn model unless you have one. I know it's a different power but it sounds like a reasonable extrapolation to me.

Here's the thing: with Gift of Chaos, you give yourself the spawn/daemon prince. [and your own character died for it] By not having your own spawn, you're basically losing something to get something and then voluntarily forgoing getting the thing you could be getting by not having a spawn model.

With Zogwort's curse, you give your opponent a squig to replace their character. Saying "oh, I used an ability to replace your unit with a squig, but since I left my squigs at home it's just a kill spell and you don't get anything" is very much "getting away with something", so I would probably rule that "you must have a squig to give your opponent, otherwise the spell fails" to prevent somebody from going "oh, I just left my squigs at home" and getting around it that way. It's not like a squig is strong, but it is a fully usable unit that your opponent controls, and it can be leveraged and you might have to shoot or fight it to dispose of it if it gets somewhere inconvenient.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
...Here's the thing: with Gift of Chaos, you give yourself the spawn/daemon prince. [and your own character died for it] By not having your own spawn, you're paying the cost but not getting the "reward"...

Correction: Bolt of Change. It's been called Gift of Chaos before but apparently isn't anymore. The offensive turn-into-spawn power.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
...Here's the thing: with Gift of Chaos, you give yourself the spawn/daemon prince. [and your own character died for it] By not having your own spawn, you're paying the cost but not getting the "reward"...

Correction: Bolt of Change. It's been called Gift of Chaos before but apparently isn't anymore. The offensive turn-into-spawn power.

The spawn is still your unit, not theirs, which is an important difference. It's not about the destroyed character, it's about potentially conveniently "forgetting" a component to slightly increase the power of the spell. You're shortchanging yourself the spawn by not having it, not shortchanging your opponent the squig.

You can always handicap yourself if it's convenient, but handicapping your opponent because it's convenient for you is something I'd frown upon. Even if a squig isn't powerful, it is a thing they get to control that can be used for things.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
...Here's the thing: with Gift of Chaos, you give yourself the spawn/daemon prince. [and your own character died for it] By not having your own spawn, you're paying the cost but not getting the "reward"...

Correction: Bolt of Change. It's been called Gift of Chaos before but apparently isn't anymore. The offensive turn-into-spawn power.

The spawn is still your unit, not theirs, which is an important difference. It's not about the destroyed character, it's about potentially conveniently "forgetting" a component to slightly increase the power of the spell. You're shortchanging yourself the spawn by not having it, not shortchanging your opponent the squig.

You can always handicap yourself if it's convenient, but handicapping your opponent because it's convenient for you is something I'd frown upon. Even if a squig isn't powerful, it is a thing they get to control that can be used for things.

No you can't shortchange yourself whenever you want, that's still cheating. Whether you do it with the intention of giving yourself or your opponent a better chance. The reason the why you need a Squig for Zogworts curse is because the spell says you do, with the spawnification thing it's an option and if you are playing matched play it even comes with a cost attached if you do choose to summon a spawn.

Had a guy that would remeasure every single measure you did, even when it was something like a weapon being in 10" range of a unit and the weapon had a range of 48" range. Remeasured literally everything. I even tried to facilitate him holding my tape so he could see there was no shenanigans going on, but he would still immediately remeasure everything. That night I went and bought a pair of tin snips and an extra tape measure, anticipating the day I'd play him again. Unfortunately it never happened.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
...Here's the thing: with Gift of Chaos, you give yourself the spawn/daemon prince. [and your own character died for it] By not having your own spawn, you're paying the cost but not getting the "reward"...

Correction: Bolt of Change. It's been called Gift of Chaos before but apparently isn't anymore. The offensive turn-into-spawn power.

The spawn is still your unit, not theirs, which is an important difference. It's not about the destroyed character, it's about potentially conveniently "forgetting" a component to slightly increase the power of the spell. You're shortchanging yourself the spawn by not having it, not shortchanging your opponent the squig.

You can always handicap yourself if it's convenient, but handicapping your opponent because it's convenient for you is something I'd frown upon. Even if a squig isn't powerful, it is a thing they get to control that can be used for things.

I'm confused. What are you complaining about, exactly? Is your assertion that if your opponent doesn't plan ahead of time to use a specific psychic power and bring the extra mini they may or may not need and the spell tells them is optional anyway along you interpret that as cheating by making the psychic power more powerful?

If so this may be one of the weirdest complaints I've ever heard, which qualifies it for inclusion in this thread.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
...Here's the thing: with Gift of Chaos, you give yourself the spawn/daemon prince. [and your own character died for it] By not having your own spawn, you're paying the cost but not getting the "reward"...

Correction: Bolt of Change. It's been called Gift of Chaos before but apparently isn't anymore. The offensive turn-into-spawn power.

The spawn is still your unit, not theirs, which is an important difference. It's not about the destroyed character, it's about potentially conveniently "forgetting" a component to slightly increase the power of the spell. You're shortchanging yourself the spawn by not having it, not shortchanging your opponent the squig.

You can always handicap yourself if it's convenient, but handicapping your opponent because it's convenient for you is something I'd frown upon. Even if a squig isn't powerful, it is a thing they get to control that can be used for things.

I'm confused. What are you complaining about, exactly? Is your assertion that if your opponent doesn't plan ahead of time to use a specific psychic power and bring the extra mini they may or may not need and the spell tells them is optional anyway along you interpret that as cheating by making the psychic power more powerful?

If so this may be one of the weirdest complaints I've ever heard, which qualifies it for inclusion in this thread.

The exact text of the power is "the target model is replaced with an angry squig under the control of your opponent. You must provide the squig model."

If I use Zogwart's curse on your character, youi get a squig that you get to control. If I then go, "oh, uh... I 'left' my squigs at home, I don't got one for you", and the power still resolves, I have effectively cheated, by refusing to execute the part of the power that benefits you but executing the part that benefits me.


This is different from Bolt of Change because when I cast bolt of change and kill your character, I get a spawn, not you.

pm713 wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:
Well, might as well post some too.

Back home at my local GW there was a guy named Steve. Steve would always follow the same pattern of coming in, getting in a massive shouting match with someone and getting banned from the store. Now, our local was a kind of training facility for the area so it had a fairly high rotation of staff. Steve would wait for there to be an unrecognised staff member, come in and get invited to the weekly games night. Rinse and repeat.

That is almost dead on for someone who went to the store I did...

GW Loughborough early 2000s perchance?

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
...Here's the thing: with Gift of Chaos, you give yourself the spawn/daemon prince. [and your own character died for it] By not having your own spawn, you're paying the cost but not getting the "reward"...

Correction: Bolt of Change. It's been called Gift of Chaos before but apparently isn't anymore. The offensive turn-into-spawn power.

The spawn is still your unit, not theirs, which is an important difference. It's not about the destroyed character, it's about potentially conveniently "forgetting" a component to slightly increase the power of the spell. You're shortchanging yourself the spawn by not having it, not shortchanging your opponent the squig.

You can always handicap yourself if it's convenient, but handicapping your opponent because it's convenient for you is something I'd frown upon. Even if a squig isn't powerful, it is a thing they get to control that can be used for things.

This is a wild ass debate for me because I would just...I don't know, put something, ANYTHING down on the table to represent a squig if you didn't have one? Does it matter? At the time, no squig models for 40k technically existed IIRC, they were only a fantasy unit in a metal blister pack.

A gretchin, a random dead ork boy, a die, an objective marker, a base..

Obviously a part of the spell as written is that your opponent gets a thing with the squig's statline and their character doesn't count as killed for victory point purposes. Just use some kind of proxy.

Modern GW sure has changed its playerbase in wild, wild ways.