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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I don't play my chaos much, and I'm not sure if this is inkeeping with the Thousand Sons and DG books, but...

I'd really like to be able to field daemonettes as troops in an EC detachment. Cheap(ish), speedy melee troops would compliment the relatively shooty and expensive noise marines. Fielding an allied detachment of daemons is fine, but it feels like having a herald let alone an expensive prince or KoSecrets kind of makes it easy to steal your EC warlord's thunder.

If not daemonettes, then some goat-looking beast men types could fill a similar role. Basically what Tzaangor do for 1k Sons.

Beyond that, I'm not sure I'd want a whole lot from an EC 'dex. I'm more into noise marines and Slaaneshi marines in general than in EC specifically. I'd basically use an EC book to play my homebrew warband.

I don't play WE, but how would people feel about using a WE 'dex as an excuse to basically bring back the daemonkin rules? Khorne can easily feel very one-dimensional. Variant summoning/healing mechanics based on your ability to chop up the enemy could add a layer to that. I'm not really a Khorne guy, but even I always thought the daemonkin mechancis looked interesting last edition. They take the sting off of losing your units on the way into melee. How cool is that?

   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Formosa wrote:
I want to see aspects of the gods expanded and not just ... "slaanesh more bewbs"
Slaanesh has never been about that.

Wyldhunt wrote:
I'd really like to be able to field daemonettes as troops in an EC detachment. Cheap(ish), speedy melee troops would compliment the relatively shooty and expensive noise marines. Fielding an allied detachment of daemons is fine, but it feels like having a herald let alone an expensive prince or KoSecrets kind of makes it easy to steal your EC warlord's thunder.
More to the point, I'd like to be able to field Bloodletters/Daemonettes/Plague Bearers/Horrors in a WE/EC/DG/1KSons army without the Marines forgetting what Legion they're part of.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/05/19 04:11:13


   
Made in us
Steady Space Marine Vet Sergeant




San Jose, CA

WE:

HQ;
The Red Angel - pretty self explanatory
Berserker Lord - Cataphractii Termi with chain axes (new kit)
Executioner of Khorne - Very Large 2 handed axe. (new unit)
Judge of Khorne - "dark apostle/not sorcerer" uses judgements of Khorne. (new unit)

Troops;
Berserkers - (new kit)
Disciples of Khorne - cultists/beastmen (new unit)

Elite;
Rampant Berserkers - kinda like greater possessed (HHrampages, new unit for 40k)
Some kind of terminators(if we go by TS & DG)

FA;
Not sure here but maybe flesh hounds as a unit choice?

HS;
Same as FA

DT;
a hellchariot, or something like the drop pod idea earlier in the thread

I'm still thinking about Fashionable Fulgrim's Boys



   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran




I'm okay with bringing some fresh stuff to slaanesh.

But I DO want them to go over the top with noise marines, and given that we're discussing the first time we would get our own codex, I think it's important to prioritize already established lore and satisfy the expectations of the fan base.

So remember, I'm not saying no new. I'm okay with new. Just not at the expense of this:

Forgeworld used to make an awesome noise marine dreadnaught. I want one.

There should also be a a way to noise up a lord; always thought it was weird expecting a normal lord to lead noise marines.

Lucius could use a new model, though I like him, and I think his rules are decent as is.

A sonic tank. Like I'm talking Exorcist level over the top baroque.

And a new character model who is kinda like a techmarine but kinda like a sound mixer. He's not HQ; his job is to buff noise weapons.

It would be cool if there were noisy possessed, or greater possessed, or obliterators.

We also need non noise marine EC marines and termies- good ones.

After seeing the Clockwork Angels tour by Rush, I got it an idea for a Noise Marine tower. It was going to include a Noise marine on drums as a super artillery piece, and screens to hypnotize people who got too close; they were going to be attached to spindly articulated arms. The other two Noise Marine champions would fire from the topp of the tower.

Now obviously, they aren't going to pull it right out of my head, but a sonic temple scenery piece could work. It might almost be too much noise if they gave us everything else on the list, but then this is just wishlisting anyway, right?








   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Racerguy180 wrote:
HQ;
The Red Angel - pretty self explanatory
Berserker Lord - Cataphractii Termi with chain axes (new kit)
Executioner of Khorne - Very Large 2 handed axe. (new unit)
Judge of Khorne - "dark apostle/not sorcerer" uses judgements of Khorne. (new unit)

Troops;
Berserkers - (new kit)
Disciples of Khorne - cultists/beastmen (new unit)

Elite;
Rampant Berserkers - kinda like greater possessed (HHrampages, new unit for 40k)
I'm looking at lists like this an just imagining the nonsense names GW is going to come up with:

Bloodslash Gorewing (Red Angel), Skullsmash Flayerking (Berzerker Lord), Rendblade Headripper (Executioner), Screamskull Limbtaker (Judge), and on and on...


   
Made in dk
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin






Do World Eaters really need more transports? They already have 2 in the codex and 7 from FW. Shouldn't all these vehicles just be fixed? Is the need for a new transport purely driven by the old ones being mostly garbage? Given that DG got purely Daemon vehicles it seems likely that whatever transport World Eaters would get it would eat its occupants on occasion, not really a safe way to transport Berzerkers into the enemy's midst, that is supposed to be the role of the Land Raider and Rhino. The Rhino is already as tough as it has been since 5th edition, it just needs a price reduction so it can play against meta armies.

I don't play either faction but I'll repost my post from another thread regarding possible new units for EC.

Spoiler:
HQ
Lord of Profligacy: Chaos Lord on bike. Aura of "make a melee attack when you die" and if he hasn't already attacked when he is destroyed he stays on the table until he makes his attacks, when he is removed from the table he can attack again with all his melee attacks and shoot with all his shooting weapons.

Troops
Manswine Carnalvores: Beastmen with pig hooves and a mixture of pig faces and boar faces. Armed with goring tusks and either manskewer spears or shotguns. They have the ability to start the game in reinforcements and enter the battlefield from within 6" of a battlefield edge. Re-roll failed wound rolls against units with a low Leadership. Manskewer spears let units make additional attacks with their goring tusks/venomous fangs once for each unsaved wound.

Elites
Master of Stimulants: Gets a random buff at the start of the game, shares it with an Infantry or Beasts unit.
Phoenix Guard: Armed with power spears that double as ranged weapons at short range. M6.
Sonic Dreadnought: Same as the one in the index.
Sublime Champion: Wracked with a variety of gifts that makes him deadly in melee, improves the gift table for nearby units.
Cacophonous Conductor: Has a pair of pistols and improves the effectiveness of shooting, particularly noise weaponry of nearby units.

Fast Attack
Slitherspawn Brushhunters: Naga-like creatures. Armed with deafening screeches, venomous fangs and manskewer spears. They have a high Movement characteristic and their deafening screeches can prevent Overwatch.

Heavy Support
Tormentor Daemon Engine: Impulsor kind of thing, it can Fly. The top half looks serene, the bottom half is wracked with daemon infested bits of living material. It has two huge cannons, one above and one below.

Flyer
Bedlam Hell Talon: Hell Talon with sonic weaponry.

Lords of War
Fulgrim: Big snek, M18 FLY, 6 D3 sword attacks, 6 D1 tailswipes (D d3 against CHARACTERS), 6 D1 whip attacks, grants 6 free CP re-rolls if he is included in your army.


For World Eaters I am not too sure, a wannabe Burna Boy unit would be cool, combining fire-support with melee. Some angry angry goat boys with great chain axes. Dual-wielding Terminators with an extra attack that get the second weapon for free so you don't have to pay twice when you only get to attack with one of your weapons. Some Ogryn-sized angry melee gorillas with hammers. Slaughterbrute. Apothecary riding a juggernaut that gives his Infantry/Cavalry buddies FNP when they charge. Juggernaut riding Berzerkers with power lances.

A transport would be cool, but I'd want it mostly for transporting goat-boys, so it can eat its occupants in good conscience, make it good in melee, with an agressive skull-faced dozer blade and a melta-bomb ramming attack that damages the transport and the enemy. The devouring of occupants could be entirely voluntary, so you heal however many wounds worth of occupants you eat, so you can eat a goatboy or a gorillaman and heal at a decent rate in terms of pts expended since those models would be un-armoured and hence relatively cheap per wound.

As far as Angron goes I'd like him to not be too much of a glass-cannon, I don't know what is up with Dakka's search function but I can't find my Angron suggestion either and won't bother spending any more time looking for it, it already took me 10 minutes to find my EC suggestion.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/19 06:39:47


 
   
Made in us
Witch Hunter Undercover in a Cult







 vict0988 wrote:
...Shouldn't all these vehicles just be fixed? Is the need for a new transport purely driven by the old ones being mostly garbage?...


The request for a new transport may be driven by the fact that GW never fixes anything when they can release new models instead.

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using. 
   
Made in gb
Furious Raptor




West Yorkshire

I think the best way to answer this is simply that each legion (Expanding from just world eaters and emperors children) has their own unique style of war but most only a generic unit choice to work with for it rather than models that are unique to the faction and compliment the playstyle required. There are so many different unique troops for each legion that they could all feasibly have their own unique legion unit. Gal vorbak for Word bearers, Night raptors for Night lords, and that's not even considering the plethora of special characters that could be introduced into the game by just giving the legion a book.

5000pts W4/ D0/ L5
5000pts W10/ D2/ L7
 
   
Made in dk
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin






I don't like Legion-unique units outside of unique characters, it takes away a lot of the possible flavour a warband can have by making it Legion-specific.
 AnomanderRake wrote:
 vict0988 wrote:
...Shouldn't all these vehicles just be fixed? Is the need for a new transport purely driven by the old ones being mostly garbage?...


The request for a new transport may be driven by the fact that GW never fixes anything when they can release new models instead.

Did GW not fix Assault Centurions? Knights, Grey Knights, Tesseract Vaults? I'm sure a lot of people went out and got Tesseract Vaults when people found out they were OP, but at the same time the model had been out for years and its Apocalypse rules with destroyer flamers were scary and I'm sure I'm not the only one who had the model lying around because it was cool. Demanding GW make better use of the community to find out which units need to be changed is not outrageous. There is no way the Ogryn nerf was malicious, it had to be stupidity, I'd extend that to all the units that should have gotten buffs or larger buffs. It makes a lot of sense for me when I think of GW's balance team as the janitorial staff writing it when their usual duties have been handled.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/19 09:04:07


 
   
Made in gb
Furious Raptor




West Yorkshire

 vict0988 wrote:
I don't like Legion-unique units outside of unique characters, it takes away a lot of the possible flavour a warband can have by making it Legion-specific.


But that's not to say there isn't a workaround. Stratagems exist.

A 1cp Stratagem could allow you to take 1 unit of another legion-specific units as mercenaries without losing your own legion trait.
A 3cp Stratagem could allow you to take 2 units of another legion-specific units as mercenaries without losing your own legion trait, or take 1 unit of another legion-specific units and add your own legion keyword to it.
only allow the stratagem to be used once in a battle.

5000pts W4/ D0/ L5
5000pts W10/ D2/ L7
 
   
Made in gb
Savage Khorne Berserker Biker




Tristanleo wrote:
 vict0988 wrote:
I don't like Legion-unique units outside of unique characters, it takes away a lot of the possible flavour a warband can have by making it Legion-specific.


But that's not to say there isn't a workaround. Stratagems exist.

A 1cp Stratagem could allow you to take 1 unit of another legion-specific units as mercenaries without losing your own legion trait.
A 3cp Stratagem could allow you to take 2 units of another legion-specific units as mercenaries without losing your own legion trait, or take 1 unit of another legion-specific units and add your own legion keyword to it.
only allow the stratagem to be used once in a battle.


Get this person a job GW.
   
Made in us
Committed Chaos Cult Marine




The dark hollows of Kentucky

Dudeface wrote:
Tristanleo wrote:
 vict0988 wrote:
I don't like Legion-unique units outside of unique characters, it takes away a lot of the possible flavour a warband can have by making it Legion-specific.


But that's not to say there isn't a workaround. Stratagems exist.

A 1cp Stratagem could allow you to take 1 unit of another legion-specific units as mercenaries without losing your own legion trait.
A 3cp Stratagem could allow you to take 2 units of another legion-specific units as mercenaries without losing your own legion trait, or take 1 unit of another legion-specific units and add your own legion keyword to it.
only allow the stratagem to be used once in a battle.


Get this person a job GW.

Agreed, I like this idea. It would allow for more legion specific units while avoiding the "feel bad" effect of others not being able to take said units. It also helps explain why there would be mixed legion warbands far more satisfyingly than the infuriating "the legions don't exist anymore" argument.

I give it
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran




 vict0988 wrote:
I don't like Legion-unique units outside of unique characters, it takes away a lot of the possible flavour a warband can have by making it Legion-specific.
 AnomanderRake wrote:
 vict0988 wrote:
...Shouldn't all these vehicles just be fixed? Is the need for a new transport purely driven by the old ones being mostly garbage?...


The request for a new transport may be driven by the fact that GW never fixes anything when they can release new models instead.

Did GW not fix Assault Centurions? Knights, Grey Knights, Tesseract Vaults? I'm sure a lot of people went out and got Tesseract Vaults when people found out they were OP, but at the same time the model had been out for years and its Apocalypse rules with destroyer flamers were scary and I'm sure I'm not the only one who had the model lying around because it was cool. Demanding GW make better use of the community to find out which units need to be changed is not outrageous. There is no way the Ogryn nerf was malicious, it had to be stupidity, I'd extend that to all the units that should have gotten buffs or larger buffs. It makes a lot of sense for me when I think of GW's balance team as the janitorial staff writing it when their usual duties have been handled.


Ogryns and Bullgryns both got PA strats, so they are better than they were, though perhaps still not spectacular.

As for not liking legion specific stuff except characters though, I think that legion specific stuff is what allows flavour. Are you suggest Khorne troops, or even unaligned legions get access to Noise weapons and plague drones? Because then how could you create death guard or emperor's children? I think giving ALL legions unique stuff is what adds flavour, not takes it away. If you want to level the playing field between legiuons, I'd Alpha legion or Night Lords or whatever get there own unique stuff, rather than taking unique stuff away from people who are fortunate enough to have it.

If you want to play a legion that isn't aligned to slaanesh, not having noise weapons IS part of your flavour; you haven't earned access to those weapons by proving loyalty to slaanesh.
If every legion gets to take everything, then there might as well not even be legions. Everyone's just a CSM. Bring on the noisy nurglings and the berserker axemen of Tzeentch.

Now maybe there are some players who want all legions to have identical options- maybe they think this would lead to greater balance, or a more streamlined system. The game would be way to simple to maintain my interest if that were the case; I love 40k BECAUSE there is enough material to provide immersion. It's why all other table top mini games bore me to tears- there's just not enough stuff.

And finally, Legion traits are assigned by detachment, yes? So if you want Noise Marines in an army with Plague Drones, take a detachment of DG and a detachment of EC. No need to give your plague marines noise weapons; just take a detachment full of dudes who have earned the right to use those weapons by worshipping the God who most exults in their use. That's not a workaround, that's core mechanics.

You may also be advocating for the elimination of those units, rather than making them accessible to everyone. I feel like that limits flavour potential even more. EC without Noise Marines? How does that have as much flavour as EC with Noise Marines? Flavour is about difference, not about similarity- it is about what distinguishes one food from another.

Now it's possible I've misinterpreted your point- you seem like a reasonably intelligent person, so maybe I just need to hear more about your point of view in order to see what you are getting at. Maybe you can explain how either giving legion specific units to everyone or eliminating that altogether allows us to create more flavourful armies.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/19 18:59:52


 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User





For new world eaters units, instead of just making everything a berzerker, i think it would be better to flesh them out in the vein of how Ts and Dg expanded their roster instead of just doubling down. Essentially, not just repeating things, but building them into an actually functional army by themselves.

HQ wise, instead of just more smashy characters add more synergistic blood tithe characters that can have some anti psychic interaction. Think blades of khorne slaughterpriests and blood stokers.

Considering the existence of skull cannons, imma start with heavy support- the fact that world eaters don't solely need more rip and tear, but actual support for their units. Artillery as some form of bigger badder skull cannon to act as a counter battery, maybe a variation that works like a thunder fire cannon? Axe murder to now be accompanied by big fething blood/skull explosions basically so there's variation that the skull cannons brushed against initially

Port in the slaughterbrute from aos to act as a monstrous heavy support akin to the vortex beast, and maybe aos bloodbound or the underhive cult to act as aggresive chaff? Think ork boyz style.

Or perhaps as an alternate style of troop, some kind of blood pact inspired infantry to give them decently hard to shift chaff unit with a 4+ armour with the focus of eating bullets for the berzerkers. Like how old r+h troops used to be able to upgrade to carapace? Heavily armoured cultists could help with the squishyness berzerker spam suffers from by increasing the general toughness and not just adding more beastmen. Give them autoguns and maybe grenade launchers of some sort? The vigilus khorne daemon detatchments gave the herald the ability to throw a skull grenade, so i'd be happy for more grenades/explosions being added in.

Fast attack? Some kind of bloodcrusher/flesh hound hybrid thing that acts as a sort of myphitic blighthauler, but trading disgusting resilience for speed, and instead of heavy weapons maybe more assault style guns and better melee. Maybe have the buff aura be geared towards movement and charge distance buffs instead of cover.

Maybe even bring back the stalk tank too for fast attack as some mobile anti tank akin to ballistari

Elites are pretty easy, the red butchers already kind of got added in, so just termies with btftbg. Throw in some wrathmongers style units too because they're metal as feth and would help vary berzerker swarms with a revenge/deterrent unit that could fight after dying. Maybe a character instead that provides an aura of fight after death, but that might be a bit much.

Flyers? Fw has it covered tbh. Maybe a daemon engine transport as a halfway between a thunderhawk and heldrake? Make it a bit tougher than a heldrake, give it some at melee, and let it be a transport. An actually useful flying can opener that can move in berzerkers or something as an initial wave or brick to precisely murder important targets

As for chapter tactics style gak? Bring back the kdk style bloodtithe. Maybe mix in some power from pain, so if you kill a lot you just start to steamroll, but getting alpha striked can buff what remains into berzerk killing machines


So in summary for world eaters:

Hq: Slaughterpriests/ blood stokers

Troops: T3 4+ save angry armoured cultists to eat bullets, or hordes or assault style chaff akin to t3 ork boyz

Elites: Terminators that fight twice, wrathmongers or a character that provides a fight after death aura

Fast attack: Khornate Myphitic blighthaulers, stalk tanks

Heavy Support: Slaughterbrute to act as a cheap monster, Bigger badder skull cannon style artillery for AT or thunderfire style fire support.

Flying: probably nothing, but a transport heldrake that could actually kill something in melee in lieu of guns could be awesome

Low: Angron. To hell with it, make him kytan size as a kind of mega bloodthrister. No psychic ofc just make him utter death with a knight dominus level toughness as the biggest brick to ever brick

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2020/05/19 22:35:46


 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





For World Eaters here's what I'd do.

Lord of War:
Angron
Lord of Skulls

HQ:
Kharn
Chaos Lord (and all CSM varients therein)
Slaughter Preist (statisticly a dark apostle but with WE specific prayers)
Exaulted Champion
Master Of Executions
Deamon Prince

Troops:
Bezerkers
Cultists

Elites:
Red Butchers (Terminator Bezerkers)
Hellbrute
Possessed

Heavy Support:
Land Raider
Destroyer Squad (a varient of Havok squad, shorter ranged then your typical heavy weapons but with a high volume of fire and or high damage or weird exotic stuff)
Defiler
A new Deamon Engine

Fast Attack:
A Bezerker Raptor.
A chariot that's pulled by Juggernoughts, that looks like it's built out of the rear lower half of a taurox... just something zany
Chaos Spawn

Dedicated Transports:
Rhino
Some sort of elongated 20 man open topped Rhino


So over all the army'd definatly be designed to get in close and chop, but at the same time there's also some other tools.





Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in dk
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin






PenitentJake wrote:
Ogryns and Bullgryns both got PA strats, so they are better than they were, though perhaps still not spectacular.

Ogryn went from 24 to 30 pts, that's a 25% increase, that's on par with the nerf Castellans got... In return, they got Furious Charge for 1CP, a mediocre Stratagem, no they are not better than before, the nerf was entirely unwarranted and Furious Charge won't ever be used because nobody will bring Ogryn now that the already bad unit has gotten massively more expensive.
Are you suggest Khorne troops, or even unaligned legions get access to Noise weapons and plague drones? Because then how could you create death guard or emperor's children?

Yes. DG and EC would have Relics and then the individual player would be able to customize his available Stratagems from a shared list that all factions get access to and choose which WL trait best fits not just his Legion but his specific army list and commander.
I think giving ALL legions unique stuff is what adds flavour, not takes it away. If you want to level the playing field between legiuons, I'd Alpha legion or Night Lords or whatever get there own unique stuff, rather than taking unique stuff away from people who are fortunate enough to have it.

Sure it adds flavour to the ones that are getting it, but it also prevents all the other Legions and Warbands that aren't that one Legion from benefitting. I wouldn't want to take Tzaangor away from Thousand Sons, I'd just share them among all Chaos armies, you'd still be able to take them as Thousand Sons. Ideally, if you paint your army a colour scheme and develop fluff for it you should be able to play as that army and not have to write 1-3 different Legions on your list to get the rules and models you want. If Relics and Unique characters were the only things preventing that you could represent your dudes on the battlefield instead of being forced to play one of GW's groups of dudes.
If you want to play a legion that isn't aligned to slaanesh, not having noise weapons IS part of your flavour; you haven't earned access to those weapons by proving loyalty to slaanesh.

I agree. But why would a Legion alligned to Tzeentch or Nurgle not be able to take Venomcrawlers when those aligned to Khorne and Slaanesh are?
You may also be advocating for the elimination of those units.

I am not.
Flavour is about difference, not about similarity- it is about what distinguishes one food from another.

That flavour comes at the cost of forcing people to play one of a handful of Legions instead of being able to play whatever Warband they want to create and play with.
Now it's possible I've misinterpreted your point- you seem like a reasonably intelligent person, so maybe I just need to hear more about your point of view in order to see what you are getting at. Maybe you can explain how either giving legion specific units to everyone or eliminating that altogether allows us to create more flavourful armies.

Yeah a bit of misinterpretation, but I think we also just disagree on what's more important, representing GW's fluff or letting people make their own fluff and it's totally fine we disagree I don't think we need to discuss this further. As a Necrons player, I've lost all interest in my own Dynasty over time, I stopped caring about my own colour scheme for the simplicity of just having the "right" colour scheme that fits my rules and I don't like that fact. When I'm bringing my unique characters yes I want to use the official fluff and colours, but when I just have some random army I want it to actually be my dynasty and not just Sautekh in disguise.
   
Made in de
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike






Be careful what you wish for - getting your own codex also means losing almost everything but the most generic choices from Codex CSM.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Yes, because everyone lines up on the deployment line when facing off against orkz, especially when said orkz are fielding 3 Bonebreakers...which rely exclusively on getting into CC to inflict any kind of actual harm. All of your arguments rely upon your opponent being a brain dead muppet who just lets you maul him.


Yea...that's called board control.
 
   
Made in fr
Been Around the Block




I don't want WE to be all melee.

Khorne doesn't mind using ranged weapons. He loves technology because it makes slaughters easier to achieve. Reducing Khorne followers to crazy cultists running around with chainaxes and chainswords is dumb in my opinion. WE are still Space Marines and they still use guns and ranged weapons.

Also, I hate that even in 3.5 Codex World Eaters where reduced to "all berserkers army" (the quote is "Not all Khorne CSM are Berserkers, but every World Eater is a berserker").

In my opinion, World Eaters should be a bit like Orks. Orks are pretty much a 50/50 faction (they can be played as heavy melee army or a heavy ranged army) and I think WE should be 60% melee and 40% ranged.

Also, not ALL World Eaters are insane. Berserkers are lost to the Nails, but it is stated commanders and officers are still capable of rational thoughts even though they are highly aggressive in the midst of battle.

Mortal followers (cultists), instead of being another unit composed of mutants (poxwalkers, tzeentch acolytes) or crazy followers (regular cultists), should be highly organized and have a militaristic look ala Blood Pact. They are trying to be noticed by their Overlords and they are training hard to be as efficient (and deadly) as possible in a fight. Those who are noticed are then taken by World Eaters Apothicaries to receive the Nails and all the modifications required to become World Eaters Legionnaire. To further support this, they should have access to mostly ranged weapons (autoguns or looted lasguns and things like heavy stubbers and missile launchers and that's it).

I know I am in the minority, but I also don't think Berserkers should be a Troop choice. They are by far too much insane to make sense as the most common troops available to World Eaters commanders. They should be in the Elite slot (with a new kit of course) and GW should make a new Troop choice which would represent the most common World Eaters Legionnaire : a very capable CSM unit in melee (although not as good as Berserkers or Red Butchers of course) equiped with either melee weapons or middle/short ranged weapons (you know, a flexible squad which leans into melee because they are still Khornate CSM, something like this would be very useful for any World Eaters commander).

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/05/20 13:33:08


 
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran




@vict0988

Thanks for clarification, and certainly, enjoy the game the way you like to play it.

I think it's valid to want more options when creating your own chaos army. I think sharing unique options among different followers of the same gods is okay- I'm not sure if Noise Marine gear is EC only- I think it's available to anyone with the mark of slaanesh, but I'm too lazy to check. But I personally can't really get behind a nurgle follower playing a blastmaster or Khorne tolerating psychics.

If you've found a group of people who are willing to loosen those restrictions, congratulations, and enjoy your game.

@Jidmah I lose nothing. I want something that isn't in the EC dex badly enough, I can include it as a separate detachment from it's own dex. I may have to give up a doctrine or a super doctrine, and if so, I would choose on a case by case basis, according to the story in which I find myself.

Incidentally, this solution works to address some of the concerns of creativity for people who want unconventional lists.

But I'm not here to tell anyone how they should play.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/21 23:28:35


 
   
Made in us
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord




Inside Yvraine

Better options for getting your units across the board would be really nice for World Eaters in particular. I also think that out of all the Legions, World Eaters should have the most viable strategies for taking big blocks of infantry. Out-of-sequence moving would be cool, like their rules in the Horus Heresy ruleset.

Something like: "at the end of your opponent's shooting phase but before their assault phase, tally up the number of unsaved wounds your unit has sustained. This unit must immediately move 1'' for each unsaved wound sustained. This special move must be toward the closest enemy unit, however you cannot end this move within 1'' of an enemy unit."
   
Made in us
Ancient Chaos Terminator





Eye of Terror

8th edition hasn't been kind to melee and World Eater armies should be more than just Berzerkers running up the field.

My World Eaters wishlist is simple:

- All infantry get Blood for the Blood God, including Possessed, Raptors, Warp Talons, Chosen, etc.

- Berzerkers get 6+d6 charge, min 7 inch range plus can reroll for banners.

- Custom Khorne Berzerker Terminators, just to keep up with the Joneses. Give them 2 handed chainaxes that hit like Plague Flails with AP -3.

- New models Beastmen and Angron.

- Make Collars of Khorne wargear and allow every unit that has it 2 denys per turn.

Except for Beastmen and Angron, these are rules I've playtested about 5 times in friendly games before Faith and Fury came out. Totally different army, I consider it near competitive. You can lose two-thirds of your army footslogging and the rest has enough fight to win. They can't kill flyers but they can kill everything else.

For Emperor's Children, I played Noise Marines a lot at the start of 8th and stopped because they are really just carrying fancier bolters. The Legion needs more than Cult Troops, Terminators and a unique new Lord of War choice.

   
Made in us
Slaanesh Havoc with Blastmaster





Denver, CO

This is a tricky one to get right because omitting anything will piss off players regardless of how much sense it makes. You need to leave some specialists to the non-dedicated armies like BL, NL, AL and such. So, as much as it hurts to say this, you may want to remove Oblits from all dedicated god lists and things like that. And believe me, when they did that to DG right after I’d gotten some sweet 3rd party nurglized Oblits, I was a little put out.

For WE/Khorne:

1. Rules which make them the undisputed masters of CC damage. I think that part of them is iconic. Wanting them to be able to shoot well is understandable but each army is meant to have it’s bling and that has always been WE/Khorne.
2. On that note, let them pimp for CC like no other army. Give their vehicles curb cutters and cheesy 80’s style buzz saws, spikes and other CC options with enhanced attacks characteristics. Let Let them get more out of their CC weapons like Parry and enhanced Dam for similar weapons or penalties to other armies on their CC for engaging the WE.
3. Lower their cost for troop transports, Land Raiders and Rhinos. Allow charge from transports that have moved.
4a. New models? Yeah, of course, but PLEASE NOT SIGMAR IN SPACE!!! Make them more Lord-of-the-Rings-Nazgully and less Hell’s-torturers; plain, heavy armor with hooks and hard edges.
4b. As has been mentioned before: Jugger Lords, Jugger Chosen (like mini tanks with 3-5 mounted troops, 4 wounds apiece, extra att, Biker level movement but no terrain penalties, etc), new and enhanced Mutilators as an exclusive unit, an Anti-Psyker AND/OR make any unit of Chosen anti-psyker, NO SLAUGHTER BRUTES.
5. Obviously and army-wide Khorne “doctrine”.
6. NEW CHARACTERS?!?!? How about a Packmaster that runs with a pack of Flesh Hounds and moves as fast as they do and is untargetable as he’s part of a squad?

And here is where it starts to suck, because we HAVE to differentiate the armies a bit:

1a. NO NEW CULTISTS. A lighter troop unit, yes, but not Cultists or Beastmen. Tzaangors? Very cool because they’re different. Poxies? Again, similar roles but obviously different. Space Minotaurs? Angry Ogryns? Hell yeah.
1b. ALTERNATIVELY: Give cultists a Mad Max style flavor and give them their own transports (with “charge from”/assault option)or make the GSC Jackals kit a multi-use kit with cultist options and more CC oriented.
2. Remove Disco Lords, Venom Crawlers, Oblits, Jump troops and maybe Bikers (replacing Jump/Bike troops with the Jugger as a FA option).
3. Keep Dinobots. Mauler/Forge Fiends just fit the aesthetic better.

For EC/Slaanesh:

1. Obviously bring back Sonic weapons on vehicles, especially Dreads.
2. Makes their units faster, just add 1” to infantry and 2” To vehicle movement maybe as their Slaanesh army wide special.
3. Make their Lords master tacticians; give them multiple Auras to choose from each round, be they rerolls for to hit/dam/charge or whatever. Make their Chosen able to target any unit regardless of targeting restrictions (like character restrictions) and disregard cover.
4. Hello?! DOOMRIDER!

And a similar treatment in loss of units but keeping jump and bikers. Not sure what to add for new units...

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
This line of reasoning broke 7th edition in Fantasy. The books should be as equal as possible, even a theoretical "Codex: Squirrels with Crustacean allies" should have a fair chance to beat "Codex: God".

 Redbeard wrote:

- Cost? FW models cost more? Because Thudd guns are more expensive than Wraithknights and Riptides. Nope, not a good argument. This is an expensive game. We play it knowing that, and also knowing that, realistically, it's cheaper than hookers and blow.
 
   
Made in us
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler





 purplkrush wrote:

2. Remove Disco Lords, Venom Crawlers, Oblits, Jump troops and maybe Bikers (replacing Jump/Bike troops with the Jugger as a FA option).
3. Keep Dinobots. Mauler/Forge Fiends just fit the aesthetic better.


Why should disco lords and venomcrawlers be removed? They're great in melee, and the lord in particular is quite important in making the fiends viable. Obliterators could be replaced by mutilators, but I don't really see the reason why. Bikers are an established part of WE fluff. Why should the WE have to not have all of this stuff all of a sudden?
   
Made in de
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike






 ArcaneHorror wrote:
 purplkrush wrote:

2. Remove Disco Lords, Venom Crawlers, Oblits, Jump troops and maybe Bikers (replacing Jump/Bike troops with the Jugger as a FA option).
3. Keep Dinobots. Mauler/Forge Fiends just fit the aesthetic better.


Why should disco lords and venomcrawlers be removed? They're great in melee, and the lord in particular is quite important in making the fiends viable. Obliterators could be replaced by mutilators, but I don't really see the reason why. Bikers are an established part of WE fluff. Why should the WE have to not have all of this stuff all of a sudden?


You need to apply the same logic that apparently was used for TS and DG:

World Eaters aren't exactly famous for their warp smiths, so no disco lord for you. Whether you need him, he has synergy with other units or if he his good for the army doesn't matter.
Venom Crawlers are linked to Masters of Possessions, which are psykers. No MoP, no venom crawlers for WE.
Obliterators and Mutilators aren't even available to the legion of the primarch who helped create them, so you there is no reason to believe that WE can use them. These are generic CSM only.

Bikers, I agree, there is no reason for WE not to have them, but there still is a random chance of not getting them for no reason whatsoever. Just like DG didn't get vindicators despite their fluff saying otherwise.

That's why I said, be careful what you wish for. Pretty much all 7th edition DG players were forced to toss out pretty much their entire army when the codex dropped.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/23 11:03:29


 Daedalus81 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Yes, because everyone lines up on the deployment line when facing off against orkz, especially when said orkz are fielding 3 Bonebreakers...which rely exclusively on getting into CC to inflict any kind of actual harm. All of your arguments rely upon your opponent being a brain dead muppet who just lets you maul him.


Yea...that's called board control.
 
   
Made in gb
Savage Khorne Berserker Biker




 Jidmah wrote:
 ArcaneHorror wrote:
 purplkrush wrote:

2. Remove Disco Lords, Venom Crawlers, Oblits, Jump troops and maybe Bikers (replacing Jump/Bike troops with the Jugger as a FA option).
3. Keep Dinobots. Mauler/Forge Fiends just fit the aesthetic better.


Why should disco lords and venomcrawlers be removed? They're great in melee, and the lord in particular is quite important in making the fiends viable. Obliterators could be replaced by mutilators, but I don't really see the reason why. Bikers are an established part of WE fluff. Why should the WE have to not have all of this stuff all of a sudden?


You need to apply the same logic that apparently was used for TS and DG:

World Eaters aren't exactly famous for their warp smiths, so no disco lord for you. Whether you need him, he has synergy with other units or if he his good for the army doesn't matter.
Venom Crawlers are linked to Masters of Possessions, which are psykers. No MoP, no venom crawlers for WE.
Obliterators and Mutilators aren't even available to the legion of the primarch who helped create them, so you there is no reason to believe that WE can use them. These are generic CSM only.

Bikers, I agree, there is no reason for WE not to have them, but there still is a random chance of not getting them for no reason whatsoever. Just like DG didn't get vindicators despite their fluff saying otherwise.

That's why I said, be careful what you wish for. Pretty much all 7th edition DG players were forced to toss out pretty much their entire army when the codex dropped.


Nitpicking but the first obliterator was an iron warrior and was gifted it from a khorne daemon. It's in one of the later heresy books from memory? Not saying it makes for a good story but they were an iron warriors thing to begin with.
   
Made in de
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike






True, but the virus made to control them was a collaboration between Mortarion and Petuarbo.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just for reference what generic choices you can expect to keep when getting your own codex:

DG
Chaos Lords
Sorcerers
Daemon Prince
Cultists
Plague Marines
Rhino
Helbrute
Possessed
Chaos Spawn
Land Raider
Predator
Defiler

TS
Sorcerers
Daemon Prince
Cultists
Rubric Marines
Rhino
Helbrute
Chaos Spawn
Land Raider
Predator
Vindicator
Defiler
Forgefiend
Mauler Fiend
Heldrake

Both also have replaced chaos terminators with legion-specific variants that are very similar and obviously kept their characters.

So extrapolating from that, WE/EC would probably get to keep:
Chaos Lords
Dark Apostle/Sorcerers
Daemon Prince
Cultists
Cult Troops
Rhino
Helbrute
Chaos Spawn
Land Raider
Vindicator
Predator
Defiler
plus a maximum of 4 other generic units, a terminator variant and their characters. WE are also likely to keep the lord of skulls.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/23 11:56:20


 Daedalus81 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Yes, because everyone lines up on the deployment line when facing off against orkz, especially when said orkz are fielding 3 Bonebreakers...which rely exclusively on getting into CC to inflict any kind of actual harm. All of your arguments rely upon your opponent being a brain dead muppet who just lets you maul him.


Yea...that's called board control.
 
   
Made in us
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler





 Jidmah wrote:
 ArcaneHorror wrote:
 purplkrush wrote:

2. Remove Disco Lords, Venom Crawlers, Oblits, Jump troops and maybe Bikers (replacing Jump/Bike troops with the Jugger as a FA option).
3. Keep Dinobots. Mauler/Forge Fiends just fit the aesthetic better.


Why should disco lords and venomcrawlers be removed? They're great in melee, and the lord in particular is quite important in making the fiends viable. Obliterators could be replaced by mutilators, but I don't really see the reason why. Bikers are an established part of WE fluff. Why should the WE have to not have all of this stuff all of a sudden?


You need to apply the same logic that apparently was used for TS and DG:

World Eaters aren't exactly famous for their warp smiths, so no disco lord for you. Whether you need him, he has synergy with other units or if he his good for the army doesn't matter.
Venom Crawlers are linked to Masters of Possessions, which are psykers. No MoP, no venom crawlers for WE.
Obliterators and Mutilators aren't even available to the legion of the primarch who helped create them, so you there is no reason to believe that WE can use them. These are generic CSM only.

Bikers, I agree, there is no reason for WE not to have them, but there still is a random chance of not getting them for no reason whatsoever. Just like DG didn't get vindicators despite their fluff saying otherwise.

That's why I said, be careful what you wish for. Pretty much all 7th edition DG players were forced to toss out pretty much their entire army when the codex dropped.


Just because they're not famous for warpsmiths doesn't mean that they don't have them. Warpsmiths are crucial to the maintenance of daemon engines on the battlefield, and we know from the codex lore that they can be allied to Khorne, changing oil into blood. VC can be linked to MoP, but don't have to be. Also, WE Masters could exist, just be different from others in having no psychic powers except for their special summoning discipline (summoning is considered valid for Khornate forces), and maybe different buffs such as automatically giving a +1 strength or attack to legion daemon units within a certain range. Mutilators, a least from what I've read, are found more frequently found in Khorne warbands, and I think that it just makes sense that the WE have them. Personally, I think that all CSM armies should have access to almost all the same stuff (TS don't need possessed, or could at least get a special variety), and the armies with their own codex should just get more stuff.
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle





In My Lab

To be fair, do WE want Mutilators? They... They suck.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran




Good news. New edition, so we're not getting any of it.

Twenty four dexes that need to to be redone first. Likely a year of marines.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





For EC we need

More/better characters
Models that are not wearing BL armour
Expansion on noise marines and sonic weapons (already in the codex)
EC should be a shock attack army so bikes, jump packs, jet bikes and drop pods
Enhanced warriors pumped full of crazy drugs made by Fabius
Fabius integrated with EC
Slaves/clone units
Better integration with slaneesh demons into the army
EC feel pleasure instead of pain which is why they love close combat so as squads lose men they should gain attacks or something like that

   
 
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